Are the fans and the owner against the Redskins rebuilding?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I will freely admit that I bought into the 2000 Redskins in a big big way - and I say this as someone who LOVED the 1999 Redskins. So' date=' yea, Snyder suckered me early on. We seemed like a good team that he was going to make invincible. It took me three months to figure out what a fool I was.

I've never asked that we keep trying to make that approach work. I want us run like the Steelers or Ravens who seem to have an endless supply of young talented players. And - unlike them - I want Snyder to use his money only when Plan A is not working. If you go two years and don't have a good young RB yet, then sign a free agent to a reasonable deal.

Mainly, I want him to use his money to reward the studs that have won for him in the past. I want to find the next Joe Flacco and then pay him Peyton Manning money after four years because we can. That's how you build a locker room that will kill for you.[/quote']

We both know what the Steelers and Ravens do; they draft layered depth so that when a Casey Rabach leaves a Jason Brown takes over. When he leaves, another center comes in and fills the role fine

When Derrick Dockery leaves the Redskins, we try and move a tackle to guard or we trade 2 picks for a 34 year old guard :doh:

The Steelers sign Ryan Clark for cheap. The Ravens, can anyone name me their last big name signing?

I agree, if Plan A doesn't work you go out and sign a guy to fill the need. Had TO not been such a head case, he would have been the perfect example of an organization (the Eagles in this case) having been built right and simply adding the piece to put them over the top

Instead the Redskins try and assemble pieces, never build, never have layered depth, and throw stuff up against the wall

"Hey this Al saunders stuff didn't work, how about before we hire a head coach we bring in an OC who runs the WCO"

It makes me wonder what the heck the point was in even interviewing Spags prior to promoting Zorn. Zorn was already here, would Spags have wanted him?

[cphil006]

We started rebuilding when Norv came in. It's too stupid. Samuels was here when Norv was coach. The stench is still around.

We've got some darn good people. Haynesworth, Fletcher, McIntosh, Landry, Samuels, ARE, Moss, etc.

We spent too much in some areas and we can't sign guys for depth or other areas that need attention. The coaching SUCKS. They management SUCKS worse.

[boofMcboof]

Well' date=' I'm older and I agree with him. It's a matter of showing a little patience and the organization not making any rash decisions like they have in the past. Are we gonna get frustrated and mad when they play like they did yesterday? Heck yeah!! But let's wait and see how Zorn does at least this full season if not another one before passing judgement. Hey, in the old days, coaches were usually given at least a couple years to learn and prove themselves...[/quote']

It doesn't matter to me if Zorn stays until the end of the season. I think most fans would agree there is really nothing to gain to a mid-season change if the players aren't starting a mutiny. It was the incessant stereotyping from the OP that got to me.

I will say this though, Jim Schwartz's demeanor as a head coach in 3 games compared to Zorn's 19, is very striking.

[IrepDC]

I don't think any of the fans have ever demanded the team be run like this.

Honestly, its clear IRepDC doesn't have a clue what he is talking about with this thread

Look at the first page of this board. Look at any sports show where fans are allowed to communicate. "Blow this team up!". "Fire him!", "Get rid of this player!", "Sign this player!". "Hire this coach!" Then when it doesn't pan out we blame Snyder. You see it. You probably post in it. How you say I have no clue I don't get, but I won't get into a personal debate about comprehension issues. My opinion comes from what I see and read all the time.

[IrepDC]

IrepDC, you need to stop. You're stereotyping and most us have a longer history of following football and the Redskins than you have. Just because you know a couple NFL players doesn't mean you have any more of a handle of winning or building an organization then we do.

I didn't say anything about my friends in this thread so what was the point of bringing them up? If you disagree with my belief that this organization needs composure, patience, and stability I'd like you to explain. The problem isn't just Snyder it's the whole culture that has been created in DC.

[IrepDC]

Bull****!

During the glory years' date=' the Skins had, like, three #1 picks in total. We never begged for a quick fix to anything. We were willing to wait for young QBs to develop on IR. We understood that there was a plan and it would work.

Snyder is the one who started this "The future is yesterday!" nonsense. Maybe we got sucked into it but don't act like this is something we ever demanded.

Just because you grew up during the Snyder Era, don't think that this is the way it has always been.

And it's not like we had a stable owner back then either. The man was 106 and was doing cocaine off the naked asses of Colombian hookers. But he knew when to back off and let his GM be a GM and let his coach coach.

And he never let the hookers onto the field before the game to bother his coach. But for some reason, Tom Cruise can reccomend a double reverse pass.[/quote']

I wasn't alive during the Glory Years so yeah I can't speak on that, but you can't deny that this fan base responds to Snyders big moves. Even as people say they're fed up we ask for them. There's ten threads on the first page asking for another knee jerk move from Snyder. This fan base doesn't have the patience to groom a winner. We want to bring in a winner. We always call for the players and coaches who have had success elsewhere. Then when they come here and fail we wonder why. Maybe we give Zorn and this current group some time to develop. Let them build up the team and weed out the weaknesses. We may not win a Super Bowl this year but the stabilty may help a lot two or three years down the line.

[DCranon21]

This is what needs to happen, as I was thinking of a thread to start, but I feel this thread is sufficient to talk about it in here. If you became the owner of the Redskins, what are the 5 "football" moves you would make? Mine are in order:

1. Fire the current President/Gm, or whatever you call Vinny these days.

2. Hire a real GM that understands football, and let him handle the day-to-day operations.

3. Evaluate the F.O. personnel with the current GM, and let him bring in the people who understand football moves.

4. Evaluate the WHOLE coaching staff with the current GM and front office. Let them decide who should be brought on if a head coaching change is needed.

5. Evaluate the WHOLE roster with the current GM and front office. Let them decide who should be kept on the roster, who should be cut/traded, evaluate the draft, and FA's if there are some needed.

That's the problem with this organization and some fans, we never really went through a real rebuilding and came out successful after Gibbs I. But what would be your 5 moves as the Owner?

[Veretax]

We did not rebuild this last year. We didn't really rebuild when Gibbs came in either. We are due, frankly.

[Loyal2Washington]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need to hire a real GM and have him operate on a 3 year plan which would include the hiring of a new coach, who then gets to hire his staff, the running of drafts, the re-signing of young key players and purging of old vets or high money players that do not earn it, the signing of FA as a means of complimenting the roster not overhauling it.

This is the only way to really fix this operation. The quick Shanny or Holmgren hire will most likely produce Gibbs II results and we all know Danny isn't going back down the road of the unknown when it comes to coaches.

This will result in a couple "bad" seasons, something Danny will never accept willingly, but if the right guy is hired can show signs of success and growth by year 3. The fans, the majority of them, have never been against a complete rebuild if the rebuild is down with competency and a well thought out strategy.

[bih]

If I stare at a turd for a year, it will not turn into a twinkie.

rofl

[IrepDC]

This is what needs to happen, as I was thinking of a thread to start, but I feel this thread is sufficient to talk about it in here. If you became the owner of the Redskins, what are the 5 "football" moves you would make? Mine are in order:

1. Fire the current President/Gm, or whatever you call Vinny these days.

2. Hire a real GM that understands football, and let him handle the day-to-day operations.

3. Evaluate the F.O. personnel with the current GM, and let him bring in the people who understand football moves.

4. Evaluate the WHOLE coaching staff with the current GM and front office. Let them decide who should be brought on if a head coaching change is needed.

5. Evaluate the WHOLE roster with the current GM and front office. Let them decide who should be kept on the roster, who should be cut/traded, evaluate the draft, and FA's if there are some needed.

That's the problem with this organization and some fans, we never really went through a real rebuilding and came out successful after Gibbs I. But what would be your 5 moves as the Owner?

I agree there needs to be some kind of plan along these lines. One that looks beyond one or two seasons, and sets this team up to be a winner for a long time. It's a juggling act for these owners though. Rebuilding isn't always going to work right away. You miss on one high draft pick and it can set your team back for years. And when a team is rebuilding and not winning as much a lot of fans jump ship and the team loses revenue. BIG problem for Snyder. And not only do our fans start to jump ship they start insisting Snyder blow up the team and make more knee jerk moves, which only sets us back further. But Snyder will continue to make those moves to win back those fans loyalty and money.

[bih]

This is what needs to happen, as I was thinking of a thread to start, but I feel this thread is sufficient to talk about it in here. If you became the owner of the Redskins, what are the 5 "football" moves you would make? Mine are in order:

1. Fire the current President/Gm, or whatever you call Vinny these days.

2. Hire a real GM that understands football, and let him handle the day-to-day operations.

3. Evaluate the F.O. personnel with the current GM, and let him bring in the people who understand football moves.

4. Evaluate the WHOLE coaching staff with the current GM and front office. Let them decide who should be brought on if a head coaching change is needed.

5. Evaluate the WHOLE roster with the current GM and front office. Let them decide who should be kept on the roster, who should be cut/traded, evaluate the draft, and FA's if there are some needed.

That's the problem with this organization and some fans, we never really went through a real rebuilding and came out successful after Gibbs I. But what would be your 5 moves as the Owner?

I like this a lot! as long as Snyder keeps his hands out of any moves other than finding a true GM that knows WTH is he doing! let him, the coaches do whatever they need to do to get this team succesfull again! this is what we are missing, not the best players in the world but the backbone of the team! good post! :thumbsup:

[bih]

I agree there needs to be some kind of plan along these lines. One that looks beyond one or two seasons, and sets this team up to be a winner for a long time. It's a juggling act for these owners though. Rebuilding isn't always going to work right away. You miss on one high draft pick and it can set your team back for years. And when a team is rebuilding and not winning as much a lot of fans jump ship and the team loses revenue. BIG problem for Snyder. And not only do our fans start to jump ship they start insisting Snyder blow up the team and make more knee jerk moves, which only sets us back further. But Snyder will continue to make those moves to win back those fans loyalty and money.

yes thats the problem here! Fans react when we play like crap and he goes out and makes these dumb moves that only hurt the team in long run!

[IrepDC]

IRepDC

You seem to think what we are doing now is "building a team"

Signing a 100 million dollar d-tackle is not building a team

Having a coach come in and put in a passing system that does not fit his QB is not building a team

Having the oldest roster in the NFL is not building a team

Having no depth is not building a team

Have no identity is not building a team

The team needs to be blown up, from Team President/GM all the way down to the water boy to change the culture, establish an identity and bring in young players who can be molded

Right now, none of that exists. You have a mediocre team that will at best go 8-8 again this year and is not improving

I'm not saying that we have been rebuilding. I'm saying that the reason we never rebuild is because the fans and owner alike lack the patience for it to happen. Right now we have an aging roster and an inexperienced coach. To me, if we are going to rebuild now would be the time. Keep the nucleus of the team together and let Zorn find his strengths, and weed out the weaknesses. Blowing up the team will not put us in any better situation. A new coach. A bunch of new players. They'll still need time. Let's give these guys time, and hopefully continue to draft well, and this team will be a lot better off. If we lose some games along the line so be it. We need to do our best to remain loyal so that Snyder doesn't get the itch again.

[Squidley]

I would gladly accept 3-5 years rebuilding if I knew we could sustain success and respectability for decades. Fire Cerrato NOW, hire a professional intelligent GM and let him bring in a coach,and let that coach bring in his assistants and coordinators, remove any slackers or non-talents on this team. Basically tear it all down and start right this time form top to bottom, the team would probably be at the bottom for a few years till our draft builds up the team. Of course the big deal would be for Snyder to sit back and let the GM handle things.

[IrepDC]

If we end up firing our coach and trading half our draft for a QB we'll only have ourselves to blame. The one strategy we HAVEN'T tried is NOT making any moves. Please let's have some patience and act like we have some vision towards the future. If the team is going to be bad then so be it. Let them rebuild.

Well we did end up firing Zorn and trading for McNabb. The former I was okay with, and the latter I am still skeptical about. The majority of the post is still appropriate, though.

[WeBB15]

Moves like that I blame on the fanbase though, because we think we are one player away so our owner goes out and gets that one big player.

Most ignorant statement.

WE , the fans, never thought we were one player away, ever. If anybody, its the media who are the skeptics that Dan and coaches see and read, not our ideas. We always had about an average team, but then decide every offseason to focus on one or 2 players in core roster spots, while leaving other roster spots decimate and get old, add along the new Coaches and offensive coordinators every couple years, so there was never any real chemistry and consistency for more than 5 years especially in the areas that we needed consistency and patience.

[IrepDC]

Most ignorant statement.

WE , the fans, never thought we were one player away, ever. If anybody, its the media who are the skeptics that Dan and coaches see and read, not our ideas. We always had about an average team, but then decide every offseason to focus on one or 2 players in core roster spots, while leaving other roster spots decimate and get old, add along the new Coaches and offensive coordinators every couple years, so there was never any real chemistry and consistency for more than 5 years especially in the areas that we needed consistency and patience.

BS, last year I argued mercilessly with fans about how great we would be if we had a "real" QB. So instead of building up our trenches with those picks, we go out and get a real QB. Now we are in an even worse position than before- older and less talented.

[RFKFedEx]

Doesn't the term "re-build" imply that there was once a structure that now needs to be 're'-built?

I'm not sure what we'd be 'rebuilding' since there's been nothing built in 20 years.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

The fanbase would accept rebuilding if it was a true re-build, done correctly, with a team that drafts players, has a GM and team structure in place and an apparent plan

Agree 100%%!!!! Re-building is not having the oldest team in the league.

I would feel perfectly fine if we went 4-12 or 3-13 if i could see the re-building and youth on our team. All i see is mostly old vets who cant get it done anymore. That is not re-building!

[justice98]

If you look like you're rebuilding, then people will buy in. They don't even look like they're rebuilding. If you're really tearing it down and building it back up, your expectations shouldn't be that high. They came in thinking they might be able to scrape by enough to make the playoffs. That's the only reason you trade 2 picks for McNabb.

[skins4ever17]

If you look like you're rebuilding, then people will buy in. They don't even look like they're rebuilding. If you're really tearing it down and building it back up, your expectations shouldn't be that high. They came in thinking they might be able to scrape by enough to make the playoffs. That's the only reason you trade 2 picks for McNabb.

I agree. And now we realize we're even in worse shape.

We have to:

-Trade dmac for cutler. I'm sure the bears will do it.

-Trade off portis/haynesworth for AS MANY draft picks as we can

Youth.

1st round : Oline.

Trent Williams + Stud O line men in the 1st will improve our line tremendously.

Cutler will have time. Make torain starting RB.

Start Austin, Banks, Armstrong, and Moss + Cooley for WR.

[Shanny]

Why do they need to rebuild? The team is good enough as it is.

[tex]

Speaking strictly for myself, would be nice to see the team build through the draft and actually use their picks for the intended purpose vice swapping picks for players as they are want to do. It is understood that the team will need to plug a hole with a useful veteran from time to time but they should not mortgage the farm to do so.

The Redskins are in desperate need of several good drafts where they retain 80% or more of the players they pick before they can have the kind of success we all want them to have. It ain't splashy, but it works.

[wilburmarshall]

We need to rebuild. We need real leaders on this team. I am tired of people talking about Cooley and Daniels as leaders on this team. We have sucked while they have been our leaders. McNabb was a start, but we need to jettison some of the guys who have been here for a while. We need to totally change the attitude of our locker room. Out w/ the old, in w/ the new.