ChillSkinzFan84 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 joey T. is right... it's one thing to plan for a balanced attack, it's another thing to adjust to what is working and what the opponent is having trouble stopping... look no further than last year's world champs, they are known as a run first team but when teams were shutting down the run, they let big ben air it out and that's worked pretty good for them... so if a team stacks the box against us and shuts down our run, we should continue to run into their strength to protect our concept of a solid gameplan? I agree with you. And if that really is what Zorn is thinking then I have no hope for this year and I will bash Zorn every chance I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLWORLD Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'm actually suprised Zorn and/or Blache are not getting called out a lot more by EVERYONE, media specifically. This team has an enormous amount of talent and POTENTIAL to compete at a high level and coaching is what IMO is keeping us just as another team with great players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBush Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'm actually suprised Zorn and/or Blache are not getting called out a lot more by EVERYONE, media specifically. I think its because the players didn't execute at times (poor tackling, the 2 plays by JC, poor pass blocking by WRs). Its sort of tough to criticize a play call when players don't put up their best within it and that results in a big play or a failure to get a big play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 While I disagree with some of Zorn's playcalling, I must agree with his theory of not abandoning the run. Norv used to do it all the time and it lost many games. The bottom line is Skins lost a tight game in which the winning TD was scored by the other teams defense. Was it ever so out of reach that the team needed to pass 100% of the time? I do not think so. There's a lot of evidence, both empirical and analytical, that suggests otherwise though. Keep in mind that this year we start the season with Heyer at a crucial tackle position instead of Jansen. We have a much stronger pass-blocking line than run-blocking this year - that would be the guess if you look at the lineup, and it is born out by observation. If the throwing percentage was below 70% I'd tend to agree that a mix of runs - even if unsuccessful - was probably helpful. But at 70% or higher, I tend to think that you've got to keep on passing as long as it's working at that kind of rate. Even taking out the last drive you've got a 70% completion percentage, and over 10 yards per completion. That means greater than 2 out of 3 passes were being completed, and they were averaging more than 1st down yardage per completion... it doesn't take a genius to see what that says about starting to lean a bit more on the pass. Throwing in our absolutely ridiculous run production for the game is the last straw. I don't necessarily mind having some kind of "idea" about what you want to do going in (you do hope that some good research and planning would have prepared you for things) - but you have to adapt. It seemed to me Coughlin turned to a heavier pass mix after earlier problems with the run, and then mixed more run in. It just feels like Zorn is slow to adapt in-game, and slow to adapt in-season (across games). Let's hope we see a better performance this Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'm actually suprised Zorn and/or Blache are not getting called out a lot more by EVERYONE, media specifically. Zorn has been protected by the media for some reason. Blache will burn you to ash with his bifocals if you question he genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllBusiness Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'm just over Campbell. Zorn is not the problem. The reason JC is even out there to start with is money, pure and simple. To get back to the primary point of the thread, Theismann is spot on. You need a qb that functions at an acceptable NFL level, to not only WIN, but help promote balance in the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever21 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well trying to stay balanced last week lost us the game too. I agree that we can't abandon the run all together, but if its not working, try something else. Start throwing more to get the defense to back off and then start to run the ball again. Or try to do something besides a stretch play to the left. Agreed. You should never abandon anything but if something is working and something else isn't the an unbalanced approach only makes sense. He's forcing the run in the wrong situations and it's costing us. Open it up. Take some chances that aren't gadget plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookieskin Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Forget Medium. Forget Balance. I want to see, RARE - Meat Eating - AGGRESSION. If that means we make mistakes occasionally that is ok by me. We have a QB that has proven he can go extended periods without turning the ball over (as long as th eline holds up in any fasion) Let's see him prove that he can score TDs on an extended basis and his natural conservatism will limit the number of boneheaded turnovers. No on is faulting Jason for his poor decisions at this point, they are faulting his ability to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateYanksDukeCowboys Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I was at the game when Taylor broke Theismann's leg. On the first play after the injury, Schroeder threw and completed a long pass, and the crowd went wild.Time passed him by. relevance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookieskin Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I love CP and he finally won me over after the Champ trade, and i think that his play has proven that he loves the skins and is willing to lay it all out for the team. That being said, if he is going to whine or complain about a changing role, Trade him within the next 2 weeks and promote Mason. This team is too loaded with explosive talent to be mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Playcalling? Even when he does call the right play for the situation it takes perfect execution to lead to a completion. I never see anybody wide open unless a db falls, I never see anybody wide open when campbell has time or not. I think the offense sucks. I cannot constantly watch NFL games seeing people break free from any coverage at all in damn near every game and not think differently. When have you seen catch and runs aside from Cooley's 74 yarder in the preseason? You don't because they don't happen. Is our offensive scheme solid? I happen to think it is not. It's the NFL. Wide Open does not exist in the NFL unless something has gone horribly wrong (See Mark Sanchez's first career TD). You have to anticipate guys being open for a second and hit them in stride. Just watch the last two TDs in the Pats-Bills games to see the difference between the great ones and Brady. Brady threw both those TDs to Watson before Watson even began his break. But he knew he was going to be open when the ball got there. And he was. Both times. Now watch how many times our receivers catch the ball competely flat footed and then have to turn upfield and start running from a standing position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 In the game in Dallas back in 2007, the cowboys loaded up the box to make sure CP couldn't do much, and they were successful at that. They stuck with that pretty much the whole game; we were thus forced to pass, and were able to move the ball pretty much at will. No matter how many times we burnt them through the air, they kept their priority to stop CP. In this scenario, I wouldn't call it "abandoning the run." I'd call it "taking what the D is giving you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Now watch how many times our receivers catch the ball competely flat footed and then have to turn upfield and start running from a standing position.On Sunday? Almost never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icbmayday Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 we need somebody who knows what there doin to call plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Can't we just try to copy what the Saints do? Their WRs seem to be wide open a lot. That requires good receivers you know, and a qb that can read a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Can't we just try to copy what the Saints do? Their WRs seem to be wide open a lot. They have a QB who understands this is the NFL and WR's are open for maybe a split-second. He can also deliver the ball consistently on-time. We don't have one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Most other teams offenses seem to operate at a faster pace than ours. That was Zorn's big beef with Campbell last year, but it seems to have faded away. We need speed. Against the Giants, we looked like we were operating at 3/4 speed. We are a "medium" kind of team with Zorn at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 How would Zorn make players faster or slower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLWORLD Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 They have a QB who understands this is the NFL and WR's are open for maybe a split-second. He can also deliver the ball consistently on-time. We don't have one of those. +1... If all we are going for is a game manager then Collins is the man for the job while we look for another qb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P'Oed Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 This staying medium **** is getting old. He's like Goldylocks from the 3 bears. Doesn't like extremes, wants everything in the middle. He's Zornylocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 In the game in Dallas back in 2007, the cowboys loaded up the box to make sure CP couldn't do much, and they were successful at that. They stuck with that pretty much the whole game; we were thus forced to pass, and were able to move the ball pretty much at will. No matter how many times we burnt them through the air, they kept their priority to stop CP. In this scenario, I wouldn't call it "abandoning the run." I'd call it "taking what the D is giving you." http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2007111804/2007/REG11/redskins@cowboys/watch The game he was speaking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Generally, if you go with what is working, you'll probably be balanced. I mean, if your opponent can't stop something, they've got to adjust which will probably open up other things that will get you balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 There is a reason teams have scouting reports; to find their strengths and weaknesses. If a team has a bad passing "d", but a good running "d", duh! you'd want to attack their secondary through the air, not continually trying to run when it is not effective. Its called coaching strategy; this is why coaches or oc's call in plays, because they see when a weakness is exploited. Except if you're Peyton Manning, then you pretty much know whats going to happen, and can call the appropriate play vs the defensive look. B.T.W. i'd give Joey T the nod, at least he got the Skins to the promised land... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 If you want to see something telling about our plays just look at the play when we were on the 7 yard line and JC got sacked. Pause it just before he gets sacked and look at where the wr's are only Cooley was in the end zone and we were only 7 yards out. To your point, one of JC's interviews stated that play called takes longer to develop. Why the heck would Zorn call a play against that Defense, inside the red zone and that takes that long to develop? One other point mentioned by Zorn was the safeties playing over the top on Moss and others. That's the reason JC had success in the middle of the field. I agree with Joey T, Zorn should have kept exploiting it instead of "digging in" on stupid scripted plays. Geez.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornToHail Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 It's the NFL.Wide Open does not exist in the NFL unless something has gone horribly wrong (See Mark Sanchez's first career TD). You have to anticipate guys being open for a second and hit them in stride. Just watch the last two TDs in the Pats-Bills games to see the difference between the great ones and Brady. Brady threw both those TDs to Watson before Watson even began his break. But he knew he was going to be open when the ball got there. And he was. Both times. Now watch how many times our receivers catch the ball competely flat footed and then have to turn upfield and start running from a standing position. Spot on - Brady recognized the same coverage on both of those TDs. The first touchdown he threw it right to Watson before the safety could cover; the second he threw to Watson's back shoulder b/c the safety was trying to jump the route - now that's a QB that can read a defense and make the adjustment. However, my main beef with Campbell is a total lack of pocket awareness/presence. After a few seconds, you gotta know to step up! Slightly second, and this comes from the head coach down, is CLOCK MANAGEMENT. I don't think I've ever seen a Skins team blow so many time outs in the 3rd quarter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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