ESPN poll: Riggins vs. Portis.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I've seen Riggins stuffed on 3rd and 4th and 1 plenty of times. Dallas 1979 ring a bell. Dallas 1983. Plenty of times. It wasn't "automatic".

Too many times I've seen people pull stuff out of their ass and say things like it was fact.

You are talking about the MYTH of John Riggins. Reality was very different.

I've said something similar in the past :yes:...I watched the Super Bowl against Miami a year or so ago, and was floored at how many times Riggins was stopped for a short gain or no gain. "Memory" had him dominating that game from start to finish, every single play. The "tape", though, showed my memory was faulty lol...As many times as I've heard ES members claim that Riggins would drag defenders for 4-5 yards a carry, "guaranteed", how nobody could bring him down, etc, etc...I'm watching probably his most famous game and seeing a guy who is looking like almost every other running back in the league...some good runs, some stuffs at the line, some missed 3rd downs that his team could have really used...from just a single-game performance standpoint Timmy Smith's SB performance blows Riggins' SB performance out of the water lol.

Of course we don't look at games in a vaccuum...and Riggins going up against the Dolphins' run D was a much harder task than Smith going up against the Broncos' run D...not to mention that the Hogs were in elite form against Denver. Riggins would have destroyed the Broncos behind that line. Then again, Portis would have destroyed in the playoffs behind the Hogs, much like Riggins did.

[Santana_Fan]

Portis would be even more of a beast, if he wasn't 90% of the offense. Portis has been handling business with limited production from the rest of the Offense. If our WR's stepped up like the teams that Riggins was on, Portis would dominate IMO.

[redskins0756]

Who has a ring and who doesn't and that will answer the poll question as well.

[toolman28]

disagree untill somebody replies to Scruffys post.

I'm also waiting for somebody to tell me that Riggo wasn't anymore then a flamboyant Larry Csonka with a better O line. :whoknows:

How many Hogs are in the HOF? I am sure there are are few from the Fins.

[Santana_Fan]

Who has a ring and who doesn't and that will answer the poll question as well.

There are plenty of players who have rings, who aren't better than others are at that position.

[redskinsfanjm30]

I agree that as of right now Riggins is a better back because of his Superbowl ring and his ability to rise to the occasion in the big game. But what I want to know is do yall think that Riggins would be a hall of fame running back with the redskins team that we have now?

[Skinsfan4life83]

Burgold wins.

Burgold loses, his points make no sense and are prime examples of Riggo Homerism, First and foremost, WHY invoke the name of Barry Sanders? Lets put it this way, if Riggo ran behind Barry Sander's oline he has nowhere near the #'s Sanders did, neither does CP for that matter, Barry was gifted, so he has no place in this discussion. The game has changed by leaps and bounds since JR played, with Free-Agency and all the rules protecting players, it just isnt the same as it was. The SIMPLE FACT IS, if CP ran behind the hogs his numbers would have been far greater than JR's no contest. Clinton is the better athelete hands down and ANYBODY could have ran through the holes the Hogs opened up for Riggins. JR was no angel when he was in the league, he was a drunk and him and Gibbs did not get along completely,kinda like gibbs and CP. At least CP didnt sit for a year either. RIGGINS NEVER CARRIED THIS TEAM THE O-LINE DID. I respect what JR did while he was here, but to compare the two is really impossible, considering they are from two different era's, all we are doing is talking in hypothetical's here. But CP is by far the better athelete, Riggo just needs to shut his jelous mouth and stop stirring the pot. If JR doesnt open his yap, CP doesnt fire back, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

[Skinsfan4life83]

I agree that as of right now Riggins is a better back because of his Superbowl ring and his ability to rise to the occasion in the big game. But what I want to know is do yall think that Riggins would be a hall of fame running back with the redskins team that we have now?

no

[jnhay]

Seriously though, TJ. How many fourth quarter leads have the Redskins blown while Portis has been here. When it's time for the running back to take over the game, Portis can't.

What games are you watching?

I think Riggins wins easily because he's accomplished the ultimate goals.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

That's the fun of this kinda conversation. Who knows? Would Emmitt Smith have been a nobody if he didn't rush behind a stellar (ooh that hurts) Cowboy's line? The reason I think Portis may not have been all-world even behind the Hogs is his disdain for workouts, his hatred of pre-season, and his lack of off season discipline. Put him in a game and he's all out and gives you everything he has. And he has a lot. He has a huge heart, but I have to believe that some of that tailing off in the fourth is a result of the lack of endurance and strength that he failed to gain during the offseason (although I could be totally wrong about that). He's a guy that for a long time achieved based on natural ability and not hard work.

I think that is why he has failed us at the end of games or in short-yardage where will-power is almost everything.

Are you saying that Riggins was pro-preseason, working out,practice, discipline? Really? This is revisionist history. The guy loved to drink, loved to party, wanted for himself (hell even quit football for a season, and Gibbs shows up at his doorstep and the guy is downing beers before noon). Super Bowl XVIII what happened after he partied all weekend?

Riggins was probably my favorite player growing up but even I can take off the nostalgia glasses for a minute.

OH, and not directed at any one person, but:

Winning a Lombardi is NOT an INDIVIDUAL ACHIEVEMENT. IT IS A TEAM ACHIEVEMENT.

[ALLWORLD]

"the run" Riggins is famous for Portis could have done, without looking like he was giving birth the entire time....

[Sticksboi05]

Who has a ring and who doesn't and that will answer the poll question as well.

:doh:

And in other news, Robert Horry is better than Charles Barkley, Karl Malone and John Stockton...

[CommanderDOOM]

Barry Sanders is top 3 running backs ever and never won ****. Did he 'just get it done'??

Riggs ran with 'the Hogs'. If Riggins played today he'd be Brian Leonard or T.J Duckett.

If Portis ran with Russ and them he'd have Emmit Smith numbers. Remember what he did his 1st two seasons. I mean......child pleaase, last year at the halfway point he had damn near a grand on the ground. CP with THE HOGS would be murder.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Burgold loses, his points make no sense and are prime examples of Riggo Homerism, First and foremost, WHY invoke the name of Barry Sanders? Lets put it this way, if Riggo ran behind Barry Sander's oline he has nowhere near the #'s Sanders did, neither does CP for that matter, Barry was gifted, so he has no place in this discussion. The game has changed by leaps and bounds since JR played, with Free-Agency and all the rules protecting players, it just isnt the same as it was. The SIMPLE FACT IS, if CP ran behind the hogs his numbers would have been far greater than JR's no contest. Clinton is the better athelete hands down and ANYBODY could have ran through the holes the Hogs opened up for Riggins. JR was no angel when he was in the league, he was a drunk and him and Gibbs did not get along completely,kinda like gibbs and CP. At least CP didnt sit for a year either. RIGGINS NEVER CARRIED THIS TEAM THE O-LINE DID. I respect what JR did while he was here, but to compare the two is really impossible, considering they are from two different era's, all we are doing is talking in hypothetical's here. But CP is by far the better athelete, Riggo just needs to shut his jelous mouth and stop stirring the pot. If JR doesnt open his yap, CP doesnt fire back, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

How are you basing the fact that CP is the better athlete? Riggins in high school was an all american in basketball and all stat honors in basketball twice. IIRC, he ran track at Kansas. So whats that allegation based on, the fact that Portis is black, therefore he's automatically a better athlete?

Barry Sanders was gifted but Portis and Riggins aren't?

People love bringing up the Hogs, and its nice that Riggins had a great line..however there have been backs in the league that have done more than less with the line that Portis has had during his time here. You act as if the line is all that matters.

All I know is there's a Riggo Drill and there isn't a Portis Drill. Riggins averaged more yards in December per game than any other month of his career while Portis averages his 2nd to worst during that month.

Keep pointing to the line all you want, Riggins answered the bell when it counted.

[Dark Acre]

Riggins was 6-3/235-240, ran a 4.5. He was a sprinter at K-State. He was not just a bruising fullback. Some of you might remember that he didn't always play behind the Hogs. His magnificent 66 yard sprint against Dallas in 1979 was not behind the Hogs. Football is a 60 minute game. It's as much mental as it is physical. Give me Riggo in his prime over Portis any day and every game. The guy was actually a Hog too. You give me John Riggins in his prime and I'll build a Super Bowl champion around him. Heart, guts, soul, talent, and desire to match.

[Dark Acre]

I grew up LOVING John Riggins.. but i have to say that, like Portis said, Riggo had a flat out better team around him....

Riggins:

Arguably the best offensive line in the HISTORY of the NFL

Hall of Fame QB

Hall of Fame Coaches

Might not seem like much, but you have to take into account that it was a WHOLE different league when Riggo was carrying the ball.

HOF QB? Theismann, Kim McQuilken, or Jay Schroeder? C'mon. Theismann had some good years, but do you realize that he was drafted in 1972? He was in his 30's by the Hogs era. Best running OL sure, but honestly, mediocre pass blocking. Passing game scared nobody. Pretty good, but you didn't have to double anyone except Monk and he didn't go deep most of the time. I'll take Riggo's heart & NFL game over Portis.

[Dark Acre]

One more thing - yeah, Riggins often got a couple of yards per play. Maybe some of you don't understand the concept of softening up the enemy? How much territory does artillery conquer? Not much, but you absolutely want to dump a ton of 155s on the enemy before you send in light infantry. Riggins played FB like it was 60 minutes. 3 yards and a diesel-full of pain for 3 quarters and then take the game over in the 4th. Portis can't do that. He's bigger than he was, but he's just not the same kind of player. Did Riggins have HOF coaches or did they make the HOF b/c of Riggins? Joe Washington would've had over 1,000 yards had he not been a change-of-pace back to Riggo, but would he have had the same impact on the *game*? No way.

[LApunkrocker72]

I voted for Riggins, who is one of my all-time favorite Redskins.

[Uno Mas]

There is probably a very obvious generational divide on who thinks who is better.

A good poll would have asked the age of participants. I'm willing to bed the older crowd would say Riggins while the younger generation would say Portis.

:2cents:

Which is why the younger generation should think twice about voting. I didnt vote because, although I saw Riggins play, I was very young and dont really remember enough to base a objective opinion.

Portis has done well, but as another poster mentioned, he has not been dominant. But he has great stats.

[Burgold]

The reason Portis loses is incredibly simple:

For him to be in the conversation you have to make excuses for him.

If you can only tout the guy by saying, but... then he's not in the conversation. It's like saying, "The Cowboys were clearly the better team... if you take away those five interceptions and lucky fumbles they would have won the game." Well, if the Cowboys did have those turnovers and lost they are a lesser team that day.

Similarly, Portis can only be judged on what he achieves or doesn't. If you have to make excuses for the guy... it's the line, it's the quarterback, defenses are better... then he's not as good. The fact that you need to rationalize to put him into the conversation is the point.

Was Virgil Seay that much better than Randle El? Was Charlie Brown a world beater? Grimm and Jacoby were basically rookies when Riggins was rocking it. Were either of them as good as Samuels or Jansen in their primes with Portis on the Redskins? Bostic was a push with Rabach probably.

When it mattered, Riggins was there. When it mattered, Portis was part of a losing season. But, but, but...

(And TLC, I know someone would call me on the partier Riggins. I'm surprised it took so long.)

Portis is a stat accumulator until he does something in the Post Season. So far, in regular season and post, Portis hasn't been the homerun threat we thought we were getting and he isn't a good bulldozer. He's simply a very good running back, but he isn't GREAT and he has had the chance to be.

[ALLWORLD]

The reason Portis loses is incredibly simple:

For him to be in the conversation you have to make excuses for him.

If you can only tout the guy by saying, but... then he's not in the conversation. It's like saying, "The Cowboys were clearly the better team... if you take away those five interceptions and lucky fumbles they would have won the game." Well, if the Cowboys did have those turnovers and lost they are a lesser team that day.

Similarly, Portis can only be judged on what he achieves or doesn't. If you have to make excuses for the guy... it's the line, it's the quarterback, defenses are better... then he's not as good. The fact that you need to rationalize to put him into the conversation is the point.

Was Virgil Seay that much better than Randle El? Was Charlie Brown a world beater? Grimm and Jacoby were basically rookies when Riggins was rocking it. Were either of them as good as Samuels or Jansen in their primes with Portis on the Redskins? Bostic was a push with Rabach probably.

When it mattered, Riggins was there. When it mattered, Portis was part of a losing season. But, but, but...

(And TLC, I know someone would call me on the partier Riggins. I'm surprised it took so long.)

Portis is a stat accumulator until he does something in the Post Season. So far, in regular season and post, Portis hasn't been the homerun threat we thought we were getting and he isn't a good bulldozer. He's simply a very good running back, but he isn't GREAT and he has had the chance to be.

I wanna argue with you... Because Portis is who I LIKE, who IS PLAYING... But you pretty much gave me the right to be silent here lol.. gp

[Chanhillbilly]

Just to throw in another variable...

Riggins was 33-35 during the run with Gibbs. Lets see if CP is still playing at that age and putting up numbers or will he be put out to pasture like Emmet was. Portis just turned 28 and many people, even on this board, have said that he has lost more than a step and doesn't have anything resembling a burst or top end speed anymore.

People are talking about their view of history being skewed and Riggins not being that good, looking at some of the vids, he was making contact in the backfield and moving forward. Maybe the hogs were not as great as everyone remembers. This isn't Timmy Smith in the superbowl where even Bostic said anyone could have racked up those numbers and run through those holes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGI0U1DDT4E&

Now looking at CP's highlights, he is untouched on his big runs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GNPmwhQZy8

Personality wise, when Riggins got fed up and didn't want to play he retired. He drank beer and played cards with his O-line and took care of them. He did pass out and tell sandy to lighten up. He snuck out of camp to have beers in town while at training camp. Riggins respected Gibb and the rest of the staff.

Portis threatened to have a mutiny against Zorn when they had a curfew during the "meaningless game" at san fran last year (It was not meaningless, they would have finished 9-7 and had a winning season) he throws his o-line under the bus over and over (I guess he had to work for those yards instead of just running through open holes), has an off the field feud with B. Mitchell, goes on to say M. Vick and do what ever he wants with his dogs. He has battled his coaches (gibbs included) on the sidelines, talked them down on the air.

Riggins played in the era of the 14 game season for part of his career as well.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just to throw in another variable...

Riggins was 33-35 during the run with Gibbs. Lets see if CP is still playing at that age and putting up numbers or will he be put out to pasture like Emmet was. Portis just turned 28 and many people, even on this board, have said that he has lost more than a step and doesn't have anything resembling a burst or top end speed anymore.

Riggins never had more than 300 carries in a season until he was 33, though...plus he sat out a year lol. In Riggins' first 7 seasons, he had 1,158 rushing attempts. Portis, in his first 7 seasons, has had 2,056 rushing attempts...almost double the rushing attempts. I think that pretty much tilts the field in Riggins' favor as far as still being able to be effective when he was 33 years old. In terms of pure number of carries, Portis last year was right at the point Riggins was at during the 1982 Super Bowl season. I think both showed some pretty damn good moves for the amount of carries and wear and tear they had been subjected to by that point.

[LaxBuddy21]

The reason Portis loses is incredibly simple:

For him to be in the conversation you have to make excuses for him.

If you can only tout the guy by saying, but... then he's not in the conversation. It's like saying, "The Cowboys were clearly the better team... if you take away those five interceptions and lucky fumbles they would have won the game." Well, if the Cowboys did have those turnovers and lost they are a lesser team that day.

Similarly, Portis can only be judged on what he achieves or doesn't. If you have to make excuses for the guy... it's the line, it's the quarterback, defenses are better... then he's not as good. The fact that you need to rationalize to put him into the conversation is the point.

Was Virgil Seay that much better than Randle El? Was Charlie Brown a world beater? Grimm and Jacoby were basically rookies when Riggins was rocking it. Were either of them as good as Samuels or Jansen in their primes with Portis on the Redskins? Bostic was a push with Rabach probably.

When it mattered, Riggins was there. When it mattered, Portis was part of a losing season. But, but, but...

(And TLC, I know someone would call me on the partier Riggins. I'm surprised it took so long.)

Portis is a stat accumulator until he does something in the Post Season. So far, in regular season and post, Portis hasn't been the homerun threat we thought we were getting and he isn't a good bulldozer. He's simply a very good running back, but he isn't GREAT and he has had the chance to be.

Based on your argument, Riggins is better than Barry Sanders right? Everyone makes excuses for Barry. Lots of talent but couldnt get anywhere because of the team around him. Football is a team sport more than most other professional sports. Superbowl wins are team accomplishments not individual accomplishments so that should not be the measuring stick when comparing two position players. You put both Portis and Riggins on the same team in their prime and Portis will put up the bigger numbers. Riggins was a great player and so is Portis but I just think Portis has the edge talent wise. Both played the game with a lot of heart. Both are great Redskins and we should be proud to have them both. If the rest of the team pulls it together and wins a superbowl, how does that make Portis any better as a player because he was a part of that team? He does his part year in and year out but to win a superbowl requires other players to do their parts as well.

[Portis for 6]

Take that one run from Riggo and I'd say he wouldn't be a HOF'er...