Carlos Rogers = The New Shawn Springs

[GhostofSparta]

I wonder if Shawn Springs is what led to this situation. As in: Zorn saw how Springs nursed a calf injury for half of the season last year, and is afraid that if Rogers has a minor injury, he could worsen it in preseason, thus leading to another Springs-esque situation.

Difference is Rogers would only be milking the team for a couple hundred grand each game instead of $1 million per missed game.

[pvkeeper19]

Personally, I will take low TDs allowed and high INTs over anything else in terms of corner play. Our D was already very good last year, but if they allowed 3 fewer TDs and had 3 more INTs we'd have likely been a playoff team. Late in the season I'd have killed for some more turnovers.

If you could pick and choose what plays those picks came on, I'd agree with you that we could have been a playoff team.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, I don't think the high INT production is going to come from many guys in a system like Greg Blache's because it doesn't lend itself to ball-hawking play from the corners. I can see Landry and Horton making some picks this year because they can capitalize on the tipped balls and poorly-placed throws generated by an improved pass rush and shifting zones. Last week, Blache said that was his goal. In any event, I can guarantee that the secondary will look better once Rogers comes back from his calf injury.

As for your last comment, Smoot played as well in the first half of that game as I can ever remember. He played a little safety, too. I'm very excited to see if he can keep that up.

[holmester]

Interesting list. These are the numbers we've been waiting for, and they support my assertion that Carlos Rogers is quite a good corner.

Who complied this list? It must have been a lot of work.

Not interesting. Just very old and has no credibility. There was an entire thread made over that list. The guy that made it is like a Fantasy Football Intern or something. He's a nobody. I would'nt look into it too much.

[JPG]

Not interesting. Just very old and has no credibility. There was an entire thread made over that list. The guy that made it is like a Fantasy Football Intern or something. He's a nobody. I would'nt look into it too much.

Do you have a link to that thread. Not that I don't believe you. No one said that it was a clear list of who the bst CBs are but it shows a lot of stats you can't find elsewhere. I thought it was some fantasy football type of thing but why corners? You don't pick corners in fantasy football.

[DaGhost]

Not interesting. Just very old and has no credibility. There was an entire thread made over that list. The guy that made it is like a Fantasy Football Intern or something. He's a nobody. I would'nt look into it too much.

yeah but i write off everything peter king says and he's apparently good at what he does.... like talking about his man crush on brady or on how he loves to hold/shake adrian peterson's hand

[pvkeeper19]

Not interesting. Just very old and has no credibility. There was an entire thread made over that list. The guy that made it is like a Fantasy Football Intern or something. He's a nobody. I would'nt look into it too much.

It's not the rankings I'm concerned with. I'm more interested in the yardage, touchdown, and completion percentage stats, which are objective attempts to measure cornerback success. So, in that respect, the list was an important contribution to the conversation.

[DaGhost]

It's not the rankings I'm concerned with. I'm more interested in the yardage, touchdown, and completion percentage stats, which are objective attempts to measure cornerback success. So, in that respect, the list was an important contribution to the conversation.

agreed... the stats are the stats and you can't throw them out just because an unknown collected them

[holmester]

It's not the rankings I'm concerned with. I'm more interested in the yardage, touchdown, and completion percentage stats, which are objective attempts to measure cornerback success. So, in that respect, the list was an important contribution to the conversation.

Even with the stats it's hard to make a good comparison. Rogers was giving up a 7 yard cushion on alot of plays so it's easy to see why his ypc was so low. But is he giving up this cushion because he get's beat deep too easily? Is he a liability in man coverage even though everyone claims hes so great?

Personally I think he gives the cushion because he lacks elite speed, is a bit of liability down field in coverage, and since he is such a sure tackler why not give up 4,5 and 6 yards if you know thats all the WR is gonna get.

There are just so many variables. If you want to know who's better ask Jerry Gray.

[holmester]

Do you have a link to that thread. Not that I don't believe you. No one said that it was a clear list of who the bst CBs are but it shows a lot of stats you can't find elsewhere. I thought it was some fantasy football type of thing but why corners? You don't pick corners in fantasy football.

Search function is acting up so I cant get it. It was before we extended Hall though, so it was a VERY heated debate on who should get a new contract first. We saw how that worked out.

[RenegadeTK]

hate hate hate

[mi6]

We'd be so lucky if Rogers could be "the new Shawn Springs".

That means we actually have a player worthy of the 9th pick in the draft, something Rogers to this point in his career most certainly has not been.

Precisely! Shawn, despite his age, beat out Carlos "mr. butterfingers" Rogers for the starting position. And, then De'Angelo Hall beat him out for the number 1 DB position.

If Carlos is that good, please explain to me how did this happen?

Face it, Carlos is not a PLAYMAKER. He has played well for a couple of quarters in a few games ... But, certainly not like the high FIRST round draft pick he is.

Would would you rather have Champ Bailey or Dominique Foxworth instead of Carlos "oops I am injured again" Rogers? For me, the choice is clear.

Carlos is not going to be playing the 4th pre-season game either. Time to put him on the PUP list and move on.

[DaGhost]

Precisely! Shawn, despite his age, beat out Carlos "mr. butterfingers" Rogers for the starting position. And, then De'Angelo Hall beat him out for the number 1 DB position.

If Carlos is that good, please explain to me how did this happen?

Face it, Carlos is not a PLAYMAKER. He has played well for a couple of quarters in a few games ... But, certainly not like the high FIRST round draft pick he is.

Would would you rather have Champ Bailey or Dominique Foxworth instead of Carlos "oops I am injured again" Rogers? For me, the choice is clear.

Carlos is not going to be playing the 4th pre-season game either. Time to put him on the PUP list and move on.

umm.... i'd rather have clinton portis than champ bailey.... great trade, regardless of the champ v carlos argument

secondly, the last time i checked carlos is a starting corner:

http://www.redskins.com/gen/team/depthChart.jsp

[281skins]

I don't think anyone has said that Carlos is a playmaker, but if you actually watch games and not pull opinions out of your ass then you would know he is a good cover corner.

[CRobi21]

Ugh.

Another day on ES...

[JGordon_3]

Personally I think he gives the cushion because he lacks elite speed, is a bit of liability down field in coverage, and since he is such a sure tackler why not give up 4,5 and 6 yards if you know thats all the WR is gonna get.

There are just so many variables. If you want to know who's better ask Jerry Gray.

Exactly! This dude has been doing this since college.

Rogers was giving a lot of cushion and playing "soft" as a junior because he feared giving up the big play. Now that he believes in his ability he challenges receivers a lot more aggressively and physically, which allows him to maximize his good combination of size and speed. Rogers still has room to improve and he lacks elite physical tools, but we still think he has the potential to develop into a solid starting cornerback in the NFL. As a result, Rogers is a late-first round draft prospect.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8139

He's afraid to get beat deep just like he's always been because he's slow. He gets a little too much credit for his "coverage" skills IMO. This cushion thing isn't a schematic thing. He and Smoot do it because they don't have elite speed. You didn't see Springs 15 yds off the line did you? Jerry Gray allows them to do it because he knows they will get beat deep if he doesn't or they'd get a pass interference penalty like they both do ALL THE TIME. Can't wait til we get somebody new. I miss Champ........

[[[ghost]]]

Exactly! This dude has been doing this since college.

Rogers was giving a lot of cushion and playing "soft" as a junior because he feared giving up the big play.

The entire Redskins defense does this. Our corners hardly ever play right up in the WRs face. Hall did this just this past week. The only CB that plays up is the slot corner.

Springs did this. Hall did it. Rogers did. Smoot did. Ever since Gregg Williams, this has been a staple of Washington's defense.

Btw- Rogers ran the second fastest 40 time at his combine among DBs... despite having a slight injury.

[JGordon_3]

];6697851']The entire Redskins defense does this. Our corners hardly ever play right up in the WRs face. Hall did this just this past week. The only CB that plays up is the slot corner.

Springs did this. Hall did it. Rogers did. Smoot did. Ever since Gregg Williams' date=' this has been a staple of Washington's defense.

Btw- Rogers ran the second fastest 40 time at his combine among DBs... despite having a slight injury.[/quote']

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80b33912/NFL-Gameday-Redskins-vs-Cowboys-highlights

Uhh.......wrong. Check the tape. Springs would do it from time to time, but he definitely did it the least because he has always been our fastest CB. I understand that was Gregg's scheme because Antoine Winfield and Nate Clements used to do it in Buffalo, but the scheme also dictates that if you want to come up in press coverage during man-to-man scenarios, the corners have the freedom within the scheme to do so.

For the record, for those of you who don't have time to check out the link, it's just evidence of Springs locking up TO with press coverage at the line and it also conveniently shows Carlos "Stone Hands" Rogers consistently playing 10-12 yds off the line while covering the great receivers Miles Austin and Patrick Crayton.

Don't just throw stuff out there to defend your guy, buddy.

[BuryYourDuke]

I can never make up my mind about Los. I think the game that really sold me on him was the second half in Dallas last season on TO. He did an awesome job after Springs checked out. He still can't catch, but he is physical and we need him. However, like BLC, I am sure he won't be here..."he ain't no back up to nobody"...plus, he's all about the pay day. CB's do the best of any position in free agency. If we don't extend him by mid season, kiss him goodbye.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

another thing everyone seems to be forgetting (myself guilty included) is that rogers got demoted at the end of the year to the nickel corner.

this is a guy that so many of us are high on about his physical play, yet he got benched.

[BuryYourDuke]

another thing everyone seems to be forgetting (myself guilty included) is that rogers got demoted at the end of the year to the nickel corner.

this is a guy that so many of us are high on about his physical play, yet he got benched.

Right. Hence the "I ain't no back-up to nobody". He was ready to ask for a trade if we were keeping Springs this year. Everyone remember how JLC was proclaiming the trade to be guaranteed?

[NewCliche21]

Precisely! Shawn, despite his age, beat out Carlos "mr. butterfingers" Rogers for the starting position. And, then De'Angelo Hall beat him out for the number 1 DB position.

If Carlos is that good, please explain to me how did this happen?

Face it, Carlos is not a PLAYMAKER. He has played well for a couple of quarters in a few games ... But, certainly not like the high FIRST round draft pick he is.

Would would you rather have Champ Bailey or Dominique Foxworth instead of Carlos "oops I am injured again" Rogers? For me, the choice is clear.

Carlos is not going to be playing the 4th pre-season game either. Time to put him on the PUP list and move on.

1) You're crazy if you think that Rogers isn't a shutdown corner. Please check the stats that someone was kind enough to dig up earlier.

2) Please check his injury history and then come back and apologize for wasting our time.

Thanks.

[NewCliche21]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80b33912/NFL-Gameday-Redskins-vs-Cowboys-highlights

Uhh.......wrong. Check the tape. Springs would do it from time to time, but he definitely did it the least because he has always been our fastest CB. I understand that was Gregg's scheme because Antoine Winfield and Nate Clements used to do it in Buffalo, but the scheme also dictates that if you want to come up in press coverage during man-to-man scenarios, the corners have the freedom within the scheme to do so.

For the record, for those of you who don't have time to check out the link, it's just evidence of Springs locking up TO with press coverage at the line and it also conveniently shows Carlos "Stone Hands" Rogers consistently playing 10-12 yds off the line while covering the great receivers Miles Austin and Patrick Crayton.

Don't just throw stuff out there to defend your guy, buddy.

Hey, buddy, our [edit: corners. I'm sick, so forgive the iodiocy/'tude] usually play way off the line. You wanna check out highlights or entire games?

If you DO want to check out a game where Rogers played press coverage the entire time, then check out Week 2 in 2007 where Rogers was absolutely dominant. What did he do? Play press coverage.

Just because our DC doesn't know how to play him, neither did Williams save for that game, doesn't mean that he isn't a press corner.

[hoosandskinsMUSTwin]

Rogers is the best cover corner on the roster. Man on man, me stopping you from catching the ball, he is the best on the team, far superior to D HALL. Yes, he has terrible hands, but again, you have to be in the correct position to even have a play at a pick, and last I checked, an incompletion is still a positive play.

He will be fine.

[FanboyOf91]

Rogers will be back.

The MCL or ACL tear in 2007 would have ended Shawn's career, but Carlos fought hard and had a awesome season last year.

It's pretty amazing he was third in the NFL for passes defensed last season (and 1 away from tying for #1). I would have bet on a subpar year after such a terrible knee injury.

[hoosandskinsMUSTwin]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80b33912/NFL-Gameday-Redskins-vs-Cowboys-highlights

Uhh.......wrong. Check the tape. Springs would do it from time to time, but he definitely did it the least because he has always been our fastest CB. I understand that was Gregg's scheme because Antoine Winfield and Nate Clements used to do it in Buffalo, but the scheme also dictates that if you want to come up in press coverage during man-to-man scenarios, the corners have the freedom within the scheme to do so.

For the record, for those of you who don't have time to check out the link, it's just evidence of Springs locking up TO with press coverage at the line and it also conveniently shows Carlos "Stone Hands" Rogers consistently playing 10-12 yds off the line while covering the great receivers Miles Austin and Patrick Crayton.

Don't just throw stuff out there to defend your guy, buddy.

Sigh. This ignorance really frustrates the hell out of me. Rogers, along with every other corner in the NFL, is told when to jam receivers at the line and when to provide a cushion. Normally, it has something to do with how much help he has behind him from the safeties. If this was Rogers choice, and he really is just being a skirt and scared of being burnt, don't you think Coach Blache, or any other NFL coach for that matter, would simply say "Carlos, stop providing the cushion and get you ass on the line". It would be OVER with one film review if what he was doing was wrong. Every step of every play is broken down repeatedly on tape. Those of you that think he is doing this by his own choice and just blatantly disregarding the way he is supposed to do it are completely ludicrous.

Also, look at the numbers. Not tackles or interceptions, but the succession rate of throwing at Carlos Rogers. It is in the top 10 of the league, PERIOD.