USA SOCCER: USA VS. Mexico Wed 4pm

[Destino]

1- If you think what happens in Mexico is crazy, you're new to international soccer. International soccer is insane. There are people attacked and beaten in many parts of the world when international soccer comes to town. Argentines like to fire bottle rockets into opposing fan sections.

2- US players need to stop being weak asses on the field. If you get choked THROW A DAMN PUNCH. This is sports people, you don't opposing teams pull at your injured player and choke you. Who cares if you get suspended?! HIT SOMEBODY. You think the brazilian squad would be like "help us ref!" is someone dared to do that to them? If you get hit and you do nothing it never becomes and issue and FIFA isn't forced to react.

Having said all that I hate the damn Mexican team. I don't like their brand of soccer and don't like their attitudes. I was hoping the US would win not just because I always want to see my team win but because I would have loved to see these stuck up ****s miss a WC. They'd be nothing if they competed in south america.

[Destino]

The Answer is:

ESPN paint ball championships

Public access Duckball tournament

ESPN2 Poker

ESPN Madden Nation

................................................................

What are popular(?) activities viewable on local TV less lame than Soccer, Alex?

Correct.

Thanks for that... now back to your pop-up books.

[skinsngibbs4life]

A win in both of our next two games ( El Sal at home, T&T away ) would ensure us a spot in AT LEAST the play in game ( with the possibility of completely qualifying )

Both of those games SHOULD be wins for us. It will be a lot better going into the game at honduras, and the last game at home against CR knowing that we have basically qualified. I do not want to go into either needing a result ( although, that is probably inevitable )

edit: If we get 6 points in those first two games, 2 points in the next two matches garuntees qualification.

[karmacop]

A win in both of our next two games ( El Sal at home, T&T away ) would ensure us a spot in AT LEAST the play in game ( with the possibility of completely qualifying )

Both of those games SHOULD be wins for us. It will be a lot better going into the game at honduras, and the last game at home against CR knowing that we have basically qualified. I do not want to go into either needing a result ( although, that is probably inevitable )

edit: If we get 6 points in those first two games, 2 points in the next two matches garuntees qualification.

I wouldn't count on a victory at T&T. It is incredibly difficult to win on the round at this point in qualifying. So far, only Costa Rica has managed to win on the road after six rounds in this hex, in any game, and that was a close 3-2 match against T&T. El Salvador is unbeaten at home, and actually beat Mexico (the US was lucky to get a draw). Honduras has already lost to T&T on the road, and that was before T&T gained two new premiership players to their roster.

I'd say we should be thrilled with a tie at T&T. This is also why a win at home against El Salvador is an absolute must.

Any team that doesn't win their last two remaining home games is in big trouble. For the US, that will mean beating Costa Rica. Given how Honduras gave them a beat-down at home yesterday, it seems a bit more likely than I would have thought. But it will still be tough.

As long as the US takes care of business at home against ES and CR, they should make it (although there are scenarios where they still finish fourth if they only get 16 points). Win both at home and tie at T&T, and an automatic qualification is pretty much guaranteed.

[sjinhan]

1- If you think what happens in Mexico is crazy, you're new to international soccer. International soccer is insane. There are people attacked and beaten in many parts of the world when international soccer comes to town. Argentines like to fire bottle rockets into opposing fan sections.

2- US players need to stop being weak asses on the field. If you get choked THROW A DAMN PUNCH. This is sports people, you don't opposing teams pull at your injured player and choke you. Who cares if you get suspended?! HIT SOMEBODY. You think the brazilian squad would be like "help us ref!" is someone dared to do that to them? If you get hit and you do nothing it never becomes and issue and FIFA isn't forced to react.

i fully agree with you there Destino... Seriously cry me a river.. other teams have gone to Mexico under the same conditions and won.. you dont think they dont drown out the national antheme of other countries as well?

I went to a club level game in Argentina to see what it was all about... We were sitting with the home fans and literally the entire home fan section was caged in. We were not allowed to leave the stadium until the away fans were able to peacefully leave the stadium and head home... AND THIS WAS CLUB LEVEL NOT INTERNATIONAL LEVEL...

so yes Mexico got some roudy fans and yes some crosses the line of good taste but all international soccer players face this... Probably the Mexican players get worse treatment when they play in the central americans countries than Americans do in Mexico city.

[Destino]

We were sitting with the home fans and literally the entire home fan section was caged in. We were not allowed to leave the stadium until the away fans were able to peacefully leave the stadium and head home... AND THIS WAS CLUB LEVEL NOT INTERNATIONAL LEVEL...

hahaha that's what I'm talkin bout. :hysterical:

America you don't know nothing about this... yet. Anyone that has a passion for soccer or think they might, travel somewhere and attend a big game. The feeling in the stadium is insane.

[pointyfootball]

Have US-CR tickets gone on sale yet? Is it being played at RFK or FedEx?

That would be a great game to go to.

[renaissance]

Mexico's players and fans act like that because it helps them win. If CONCACAF, USA soccer, and FIFA aren't going to do anything to stop them, then why the **** would they stop acting like *******s in their own house?

And honestly, Mexico's fans may be *******s, but don't act like America sports fans are harmless angels. I've seen grown men throw up on themselves at Redskins games. US fans will burn effigies before games, and start riots and destroy property after a game. Just because we don't throw **** at the players during games doesn't mean we have any less barbaric tendencies than they do, it just means we have better crowd control in the stadium.

[Popeman38]

i fully agree with you there Destino... Seriously cry me a river.. other teams have gone to Mexico under the same conditions and won.. you dont think they dont drown out the national antheme of other countries as well?

1 team has gone in and won a WC qualifier. Costa Rica in 2001. Estadio Azteca has been around since 1966 and the Mexican national team has lost only once.

[Elessar78]

F Mexico. There's no team I hate more. That ref was a coward.

[sjinhan]

1 team has gone in and won a WC qualifier. Costa Rica in 2001. Estadio Azteca has been around since 1966 and the Mexican national team has lost only once.

kind of long read on home field advantage in international soccer but its a good one... according to the article.. Mexico had some more losses at home than 1 but still they are pretty dominate... However they are not the only ones who are dominate at home...

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/news/newsid=76697.html

Home advantage is half way to winning(FIFA.com) Thursday 1 February 2001

On 29 April 1998 the world did not come to an end, nor did South America's largest country suffer any natural catastrophe. But Brazil's 0-1 defeat at home in a friendly against archrivals Argentina put the players of the four-times world champions and their fans in a mood of deep depression. Argentina's triumph was the first victory over the "Seleção" on the hallowed turf of the Maracana Stadium in Rio de Janeiro for over 40 years. Home advantage

The data which has been collected over the last eight years for calculating the FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking is also studied regularly for other trends and information. In this article, the myth of "home advantage" is examined in the light of the international match statistics.

The study was based on 6,679 "A" international matches played during the last 15 years (1 January 1986 to 31 December 2000). Of the over 9000 matches played during this period, 2,388 were not counted since they were played on neutral territory (see chart A). Taken into consideration were matches that were part of the FIFA World Cup™ - including the preliminary rounds - as well as similar matches for continental championships and friendly games. All the match results can be seen on www.fifa.com (link "A" matches).

The results of this extensive statistical survey are remarkable in one respect in particular: whichever way the huge data bank is twisted and turned - be it according to the status of a match, or by competition or by region - the results are approximately the same as when the whole 6,679 games are considered:

Almost exactly half of all matches are won by the home team (chart

Only a quarter of the matches are won by the away side (

In competitive matches there are more home wins than in friendlies (C )

Whether it is the World Cup or a continental championship the proportion of home wins is about the same (D)

In Oceania the home teams win more often than elsewhere (E)

Europe is where the home team is least likely to succeed (E)

The lowest home win quota is to be found in inter-continental matches (E)

The group of teams with the best home records is almost identical to that at the top of the international rankings (See: Romania - A power at home)Article: ©FIFA, 2001, Graphics: FIFA

But other teams have seen their traditional invincibility on home soil disappear in recent years. In England's last game on the world famous pitch at Wembley - literally the last game here since the stadium was due to come down and be replaced by a more modern facility - the home team went down 0-1 to Germany. And even the Germans themselves, for ages reckoned to be unbeatable at home, are not the force in their own country that they used to be. Others countries too have suffered similar fates. So is there any such thing as home advantage? And if so, what is behind this particular item of football folklore?

Studies have been carried out to investigate this phenomenon in Germany and in the USA, particularly the spectator influences involved, and they have come to varying, at times contradictory, conclusions. That home crowds and the effect of their support on the players turned out to be one of the main factors in these investigations is mainly due to the fact that it was homogeneous leagues that were studied, at the highest professional level in the sports covered. In situations like these, other influences tend to be of minor importance when compared to the main factors - spectators, atmosphere, emotions. But in the "global league" which FIFA organises, the situation is quite different: Canada may have to play in El Salvador, Azerbaijan may be hosting Sweden, Saudi Arabia playing in Cape Town or Brazil in Seoul.

................

Continues.... (click on the link for article in between)

ROMANIA - A power at home

JAM MP W D L W%

ROM 62 50 6 6 81%

BRA 71 54 15 2 76%

ZAM 68 51 11 6 75%

ITA 71 52 12 7 73%

CIV 56 41 12 3 73%

URU 54 36 14 4 67%

MEX 57 38 15 4 67%

RUS 53 35 11 7 66%

GER 66 43 18 5 65%

ARG 50 32 13 5 64%

POR 56 35 15 6 63%

MOR 66 41 21 4 62%

NED 67 38 20 9 57%

Includes only teams who played at least 50 matches and did not lose more than 10% of these matches.

Romania, Brazil and Mexico

So which team has the best home record? There is no definite answer to that question, but it can be said that the teams at the top of the world rankings are those who make the most of playing on their own soil. But limitation to this conclusion must be added, in that it depends on the quality of the opposition, which helps to explain the absence of the strongest Asian and African teams. But from the whole picture the results that stand out are Romania's winning 81% of all its home games, Brazil's only losing twice at home and Mexico's remaining unbeaten in the Aztec Stadium.

The Romanians have every reason to celebrate: they are the hardest team to beat at home.

The study goes on to consider the major events in football. Even a superficial look at the latest success stories - France (World Cup 1998), Burkina Faso and South Africa (African Cup of Nations 1998 and 1996 respectively), Bolivia and Uruguay (Copa America 1997 and 1995 respectively) and the United Arab Emirates (Asian Cup 1996) - would indicate that the home advantage in the final round of a major competition such as the World Cup or a continental championship plays a much greater role. So we had better be prepared for some surprises from Japan and Korea at theWorldCupnextyear…

This study was performed in 2001 before the World Cup in Korea/Japan...

that last sentence they concluded with "So we had better be prepared for some surprises from Japan and Korea at the World Cup next year…"

Korea and Japan had their biggest success in those World Cup with South Korea making it all the way to Final 4....

[Popeman38]

kind of long read on home field advantage in international soccer but its a good one... according to the article.. Mexico had some more losses at home than 1 but still they are pretty dominate... However they are not the only ones who are dominate at home...

Mexico has more than one loss at home, yes. But at Estadio Azteca, the National team has only lost one match. That is it. The US is now 0-18-1 at Estadio Azteca. Brazil has lost there. Argentina has lost there. The Mexican national team just doesn't lose there.

[sjinhan]

Mexico has more than one loss at home, yes. But at Estadio Azteca, the National team has only lost one match. That is it. The US is now 0-18-1 at Estadio Azteca. Brazil has lost there. Argentina has lost there. The Mexican national team just doesn't lose there.

ok well agreed.. but I guess my point is that in international soccer... such a dominate home field advantage isnt just with Mexico... as that article or "study" states that there are so many factors that play into giving the home players that "extra" boost or help or whatever you want to call it... Seems that this X-factor is big enough at the biggest stage of competitive soccer which are at the international level, its brutally hard to win on the road...

EDIT:: Basically to sum it up.. there is no shame in losing to Mexico in Mexico...

[skinsngibbs4life]

Mexico's players and fans act like that because it helps them win. If CONCACAF, USA soccer, and FIFA aren't going to do anything to stop them, then why the **** would they stop acting like *******s in their own house?

And honestly, Mexico's fans may be *******s, but don't act like America sports fans are harmless angels. I've seen grown men throw up on themselves at Redskins games. US fans will burn effigies before games, and start riots and destroy property after a game. Just because we don't throw **** at the players during games doesn't mean we have any less barbaric tendencies than they do, it just means we have better crowd control in the stadium.

so hurling vomit and urine at players is along the same lines as burning jerseys?

:doh:

Obviously US has some bad fans like that as well. But whats the difference? Its not tolerated in our country. Hell, just last night shane victorino had a beer thrown on him while trying to catch a fly ball to deep center. What happened to the person that threw the cup? Got thrown out of the park...along with ALL of his friends.

Mexican fans were sitting there praising the people that were throwing vomit on people. Hell, security guards were probably doing the same.

But to talk about the type of hooligans in america compared to those in mexico is a joke. That type of behavior happens every game, while it is in isolated insodents here. I know it is a part of soccer, but at some point CONCACAF needs to step in and do something. Its probably going to take a player getting seriously hurt before something is done though. Hell, I would advise Donovon to get a hepetitis shot after hearing about what type of stuff was thrown at him.

[skinsngibbs4life]

EDIT:: Basically to sum it up.. there is no shame in losing to Mexico in Mexico...

Theres never shame in it. It just happens that despite of our historical outcomes there, we always seem to get our hopes up and believe that this is going to be our year. Almost like Cubs fans saying that "this year is going to be the year".

[Popeman38]

ok well agreed.. but I guess my point is that in international soccer... such a dominate home field advantage isnt just with Mexico... as that article or "study" states that there are so many factors that play into giving the home players that "extra" boost or help or whatever you want to call it... Seems that this X-factor is big enough at the biggest stage of competitive soccer which are at the international level, its brutally hard to win on the road...

EDIT:: Basically to sum it up.. there is no shame in losing to Mexico in Mexico...

Most home field advantages are held by really good teams. Brazil is just 11 studs whooping up on anyone and everyone. Same with Argentina. Costa Rica has the worst field in CONCACAF (and probably the world). How FIFA allows anyone to play on that field is beyond me. It is basically indoor/outdoor carpet rolled over cement. Mexico is not a dominant team on the world scene like Brazil or Spain or Argentina. Yet, their home field is ridonculous. Maybe they are allowed to intimidate? If the US wins that game, there is most likely a riot.

[Popeman38]

so hurling vomit and urine at players is along the same lines as burning jerseys?

:doh:

Obviously US has some bad fans like that as well. But whats the difference? Its not tolerated in our country. Hell, just last night shane victorino had a beer thrown on him while trying to catch a fly ball to deep center. What happened to the person that threw the cup? Got thrown out of the park...along with ALL of his friends.

Mexican fans were sitting there praising the people that were throwing vomit on people. Hell, security guards were probably doing the same.

But to talk about the type of hooligans in america compared to those in mexico is a joke. That type of behavior happens every game, while it is in isolated insodents here. I know it is a part of soccer, but at some point CONCACAF needs to step in and do something. Its probably going to take a player getting seriously hurt before something is done though. Hell, I would advise Donovon to get a hepetitis shot after hearing about what type of stuff was thrown at him.

CONCACAF won't ever do anything about it. Who is CONCACAF made up of? Central America, North America and the Caribbean. So, no Caribbean team is really a threat. That leaves the US and Canada. Canada doesn't really care. The US has been an afterthought for years, until they started really playing in the '90s. Mexico is the driver of CONCACAF. Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica. Do you think the Mexican fans hate on them as much as the US? Nope. We are the "Evil Empire", while everyone else is looked down upon.

[renaissance]

so hurling vomit and urine at players is along the same lines as burning jerseys?

:doh:

No, but starting riots after a game is. If you read my last sentence I said that the people aren't necessarily so different, we just have better crowd control. If allowed to act like barbarians during games, some US fans would too. So don't get mad at the fans, get mad at the governing bodies who don't control them. Or get mad at the fans because they're *******s, but don't act like it's just the Mexican fans who are *******s.

[Destino]

Just be glad we don't have to qualify in South America:

1 Brazil 27

2 Chile 26 <<<< hell yeah!

3 Paraguay 24

4 Argentina 22

5 Ecuador 20

That should show you why it is so important that we win out... 4th place puts the US against the 5th place south american team. Which could very well be Argentina, Ecuador, or Uruguay. Mexico isn't on the dirty meter compared to Uruguay IMO.

Costa Rica, El Salvador, and Mexico don't come close to what you have to face down there.

Speaking if which we need some more Copa de America games in the States. Get some more top notch soccer to see live.

[Skin'emAlive]

Just out of curiousity, what makes you think its going to be "ugly" in south africa?

If you have been watching any of the US national teams' games lately you can see it coming. We have good players that can compete at a national

level. We have players that have the heart and desire to win ( this excludes Dempsey who for some reason only has that at Fulham). But once we either have the lead, or the opposing coach changes the game plan to attack our weaknesses our coach does not step up to the task. The coach is responsible for creating a gameplan that can give his team success on the pitch. Bradley is ok at that. But he has shown a complete ineptness to adjust on the fly to an opposing teams change in strategy, and the ability to put the right subs on to the field to complement our strengths.

We will lose in the second half of games in South Africa. Unfortunately.

[Kilmer17]

1- If you think what happens in Mexico is crazy, you're new to international soccer. International soccer is insane. There are people attacked and beaten in many parts of the world when international soccer comes to town. Argentines like to fire bottle rockets into opposing fan sections.

2- US players need to stop being weak asses on the field. If you get choked THROW A DAMN PUNCH. This is sports people, you don't opposing teams pull at your injured player and choke you. Who cares if you get suspended?! HIT SOMEBODY. You think the brazilian squad would be like "help us ref!" is someone dared to do that to them? If you get hit and you do nothing it never becomes and issue and FIFA isn't forced to react.

Having said all that I hate the damn Mexican team. I don't like their brand of soccer and don't like their attitudes. I was hoping the US would win not just because I always want to see my team win but because I would have loved to see these stuck up ****s miss a WC. They'd be nothing if they competed in south america.

QFT.

The sad thing is that we wont play them again (barring some miracle in South Africa next year) for at LEAST 2 probably 4 years. So by the time we meet again, this will be an afterthought.

There were 2 flagrant red card offenses by the Mexicans, neither was called even a yellow. Yet the US got 2 undeserved yellows for nada.

If the ref had made the exact calls the opposite way, the mexican players would have accosted him, and the fans probably would have killed him after the game.

We've got milquetoast players,coaches,federation etc. So we did NOTHING.

We did nothing when Cobi Jones got his head split opened in 02. We did nothing when the Mexican keeper (Sanchez I think) went after Eddie JOhnsons legs in 05. We did nothing when McBride had his eye swollen shut in 01.

We need an enforcer. Gooch was going to sit out the next game anyway, he should have gone in hard, spikes up at the end and really hurt someone.

[Kilmer17]

CONCACAF won't ever do anything about it. Who is CONCACAF made up of? Central America, North America and the Caribbean. So, no Caribbean team is really a threat. That leaves the US and Canada. Canada doesn't really care. The US has been an afterthought for years, until they started really playing in the '90s. Mexico is the driver of CONCACAF. Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica. Do you think the Mexican fans hate on them as much as the US? Nope. We are the "Evil Empire", while everyone else is looked down upon.

Which is also why we will NEVER get a fair game from any ref in Concacaf except a Canadian.

[skinsngibbs4life]

CONCACAF won't ever do anything about it. Who is CONCACAF made up of? Central America, North America and the Caribbean. So, no Caribbean team is really a threat. That leaves the US and Canada. Canada doesn't really care. The US has been an afterthought for years, until they started really playing in the '90s. Mexico is the driver of CONCACAF. Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica. Do you think the Mexican fans hate on them as much as the US? Nope. We are the "Evil Empire", while everyone else is looked down upon.

Yet the US can get warned about being reprimanded for letting streamers of all things on the field? Please.

[skinsngibbs4life]

Also, apparently Landon Donovon has the swine flu?! (seriously)

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/grant_wahl/posts/74041-landon-donovan-has-h1n1-flu-virus

[Elessar78]

Who's to say that one of those drug cartels didn't get to the ref somehow or some other element. I mean it's like the wild west down there. The bad guys run the show. Plus, our guys abide too much by "the rule of law". The ref isn't always gonna take care of you in a hostile environment.

4 years is a long time for revenge, but just long enough to let stuff hit the boiling point. In the hands of a better coach, we walk out of there with a win.