WT: Workouts intensify as offense gains traction

[Rocky21]

Thanks for psoting titus. I don't normally read the Wash Times.

It's nice to have some continuity in the offensive and defensive co-ordinators for a change.

[MassSkinsFan]

I wonder how he came up with the '30% better' number...

:applause::applause:

I was wondering that too...

[Pimpey42000]

This is great news that this offense in the offseason has gained some traction from where it was a year ago. I think this will be a good sign for Jason in being able to come in this year and put together a stand up year.

[Skinsinparadise]

actually, Zorn has said that he is definitely NOT like that. he doesn't work late hours. he does come in early, but he says it's important to his wellbeing (which affects his job performance) to have a good work-life balance.

meh, whatever works. i guess we'll see if it works this season. if he's not one of those OCD-types, it's silly to ask him to act like one, though.

Yeah read a couple of articles to that effect, he likes to have family time and have spare time to read, mountain bike, etc during the season. I can relate and agree that life's more rewarding when its balanced. Some coaches though tend to say to be good at this you got to work at things obsessively and during the season they are all just about football.

I just wonder before a big game for example when they are going against lets say a Dick Lebou type from the Steelers (who from what I read is still obsessive about game planning and works crazy hours) are the Redskins going to be the more prepared team?

I recall in one of the America's Game recaps of the Redskins seasons, one player (I think it was Charles Mann) talked about how they always knew that they were more prepared for their opponents than the oppoents were for them because of Joe Gibbs.

Maybe that stuff is overplayed, I don't know. It's not a condemnation of Zorn, its just something I wonder about him. My take has shifted about Zorn over time, first I liked him, then I thought he was the problem, now am coming around a little again. I just think he needs to be evaluated this year just as much as Jason Campbell as to whether he's the future of this franchise. Zorn is what like 55, he's not exactly young anymore.

[HawaiianTime]

"We're using a lot of the same concepts - just different personnel groups and formations," Zorn said. "The pattern is the same, but what Jason has to think about is the protection."

...

Said Campbell: "That first game, we won't be feeling around trying to find ourselves. We'll be able to have a little bit of an identity."

This will be the "TELL" for Campbell. If he continues to struggle reading the protection and is unable to rip it apart, I don't think he will finish the season as our starter. Vanilla or not, I believe the WCO is dependent on the ability to read the coverage correctly.

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Seems like last year's offensive struggles and "poor play calling" was the result of Zorn not being able to open up the playbook "because of the practice time spent honing the basics." Hopefully, more of the playbook will be used this year and we will see an offense that can remain consistently productive throughout the season.

This is where I went back and forth about whether I should be disappointed in Campbell or Zorn. As I've seen more film and heard more, Zorn tried to give Campbell the passing opportunities with 3-4 receivers going down field, but one reason or another, Campbell was unable/did not capitalize on this. Now, I still haven't let this go that when given the opportunity to give the backups game time experience, Zorn chose to go with a meaningless attempt to win a meaningless game. If we had played our backups and rookies, they'd be that much further ahead today (SIGH).

[Never4get#21]

Thumbs up for JC and Orakpo...good to hear

Thumbs down for Heyer and Bridges..thats what I took from the article.

Well we all clamered for a RT in the draft. Vinny went the opposite route and brought in some pot-luck players. I hope Mike Williams works out because Bridges is too slow to play RT and Heyer is not a starting RT period. I cant wait for camp to see just how much Heyer has improved....if any and how far along BMW is with his weight.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I still haven't let this go that when given the opportunity to give the backups game time experience, Zorn chose to go with a meaningless attempt to win a meaningless game. If we had played our backups and rookies, they'd be that much further ahead today (SIGH).

I wish one extra game was all that separated last year's rookies from "disappointing" to "promising" lol...Obviously every bit of experience helps, but we are WAAAAY overstating the opportunity that was lost in that one singular game.

[HawaiianTime]

I wish one extra game was all that separated last year's rookies from "disappointing" to "promising" lol...Obviously every bit of experience helps, but we are WAAAAY overstating the opportunity that was lost in that one singular game.

What I'm talking about is; 1) The opportunity for the backups and rookies to experience game time speed and opponents. 2) The opportunity for the coaches to evaluate the players in a real game. 3) The potential for one of the starters to get injured. 4) The opportunity for the fans to see the backups and rookies in a real game, not preseason spurts, no more arguments of 3rd stringers.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

What I'm talking about is; 1) The opportunity for the backups and rookies to experience game time speed and opponents. 2) The opportunity for the coaches to evaluate the players in a real game. 3) The potential for one of the starters to get injured. 4) The opportunity for the fans to see the backups and rookies in a real game, not preseason spurts, no more arguments of 3rd stringers.

1) You get that in preseason as well, so it's not as if they never had the opportunity.

2) One game performance isn't gonna really change any coach's mind about a player, no matter if he plays well or plays poorly. Consistency is required, and it's impossible to achieve consistency in the last game of the season when your NEXT game isn't until 8 months away.

3) Can't let fear of injuries dictate your actions, unless there's a MUCH greater good at stake in the immediate future (like your Super Bowl chances in 3 weeks).

4) PLEASE, Jim Zorn, NEVER let your decisions be based on what you think fans want to see lol...

[ttr77]

I think it was 30% more of the playbook from this point last year.

Man, I hope not. You'd think they'd have progressed more than that in a year.

[Pedro]

Expected that we're ahead of where we were last season. This is year 2 of the 3 year implementation of the WCO. The same for our OL next off season as our DL had this off season and we're SB bound baby

That being said I can't wait for TC when we get to see our DL in pads hitting.

[titus3]

This will be the "TELL" for Campbell. If he continues to struggle reading the protection and is unable to rip it apart, I don't think he will finish the season as our starter. Vanilla or not, I believe the WCO is dependent on the ability to read the coverage correctly.

LOL...I was going to mention this in my OP but I wanted to focus on the positive and not turn this into a JC bashing thread.

But I agree, Zorn's statement does suggest that JC struggled last year with calling the right protection schemes if that was his responsibility or didn't adjust well when the protection schemes were changed by the line. Perhaps this was the reason the o-line and pass blocking looked abysmal at times.

Hopefully, JC and the o-line can put it all together this season so we can make a serious run at the play-offs.

[jnhay]

Yes, i thought that Heyer and Bridges would be able to handle Orakpo.

While i think Orakpo is gonna be good, i don't think he is on par w/ some of the DEs in the NFC East.

This article makes it look like Heyer has regressed or that Orakpo a rookie DE is dominating a solid NFL RT.

I think the truth is in between.

I think the truth is there will be days where Heyer and Bridges(hopefully) will make the DEs look unproductive, and days the DEs will get the better of the tackles.

[CrypticVillain]

You would have to use common sense to see that the offense struggles was due to lack of knowledge and a first year coach. This season will be better. We have too much fire power for it not to be. Then, you combine that with a D that picked up Haynesworth and Orapko and the outcome should be super.

[NoVaSkins21]

I know it may just be OTAs, but it's nice to hear that JC is progressing and learning at a pace that's he's comfortable with. Hopefully by the time training camp starts, he'll have a rhythm and know exactly what to expect. Last year, he was learning the new offense. This year, hopefully he's able to process what he's already learned and can take it to the next level.

[gutlead74]

A slightly more worrying read from the Redskins 360 section in the Times is this quote below about the same OTA session.

* During a two-minute drill to wrap up practice, defensive ends Brian Orakpo and Andre Carter had their way getting around tackles Jeremy Bridges and Stephon Heyer.

http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/redskins/2009/jun/08/monday-ota-recap-redskin-park/

Great to read about Orakpo getting after it from the DE spot in the nickle defense - not so great that the two leading candidates for the RT spot got their lunch handed to them as per this report.

If we can get the O'Line to hold up in pass protection and allow us to run right as well as left I think our defense can lead us to a playoff spot. If Campbell has to run the 'chuck and duck' again and everyone in the stadium knows we have to run left then its 8-8 again I fear.

in a very small defense of the OL Pass Pro in shells is much harder than the real thing for most

[TE#80]

Of course Orakpo will get past the OL, he's not wearing pads, Like it or not thats the best chance the oline has, is to grasp the chest plate and hold on tight.

[Outlaw Torn]

Im starting to get the feeling that the offense is going to be good this year.

[HawaiianTime]

Of course Orakpo will get past the OL, he's not wearing pads, Like it or not thats the best chance the oline has, is to grasp the chest plate and hold on tight.

Um, that will get the OL a holding call and a 5yd penalty.

Edit: I've been corrected. See below. A pretty good description as well. Thanks gutlead74.

[rk3025]

Let's hope one of these wide receiver rookies has enough IQ to know the pass routes for Campbell.

The biggest thing will be for JC to read defenses much more quickly and be able to read, react, and make adjustments.

Its good to hear the offense is steadily rolling.

[gutlead74]

Um, that will get the OL a holding call and a 5yd penalty.

in the 50s yes. however within the modern game hands grasping the chest plate is completely legal, when said hands make on to the outside shoulders outside of the body that is holding. plus holding is a 10 yard penalty.

[HawaiianTime]

LOL...I was going to mention this in my OP but I wanted to focus on the positive and not turn this into a JC bashing thread.

But I agree, Zorn's statement does suggest that JC struggled last year with calling the right protection schemes if that was his responsibility or didn't adjust well when the protection schemes were changed by the line. Perhaps this was the reason the o-line and pass blocking looked abysmal at times.

Hopefully, JC and the o-line can put it all together this season so we can make a serious run at the play-offs.

Sorry, I'm not trying to bash Campbell. I believe that if he is able to refine this aspect of his game, it will prove to be the biggest overall gain for him. It will be a positive impact that will affect everything about his game, from avoiding sacks, holding the ball too long, catching the receiver in the deeper routes/dumping it off to the guy underneath too often. It will make the defenses have to respect the passing game. If his vision opens up to the entire field, look out, we will be Super Bowl bound. That would be a prediction I confidently make. A big IF, but a very critical IF.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Are they even wearing pads yet? The guys aren't even wearing pads yet. You can only get so excited about the good news or down about what you think is the bad news.

This is the key. If you're not in pads, the OL can't use brute strength to slow down a pass rusher. If you can put your hands on a guy and knock him backwards, that's going to slow him down. If you're not in pads, you can't do that.

Of course Orakpo will get past the OL, he's not wearing pads, Like it or not thats the best chance the oline has, is to grasp the chest plate and hold on tight.

Exactly.

This will be the "TELL" for Campbell. If he continues to struggle reading the protection and is unable to rip it apart, I don't think he will finish the season as our starter. Vanilla or not, I believe the WCO is dependent on the ability to read the coverage correctly.

I think you're reading this wrong. Protection is not the same as coverage. he won't be able to rip apart protections.

One of the principals of the WCO is that the QB sets the protetion as well as understanding the route combinations. However, almost all 1st year WCO QBs get a ton of help in the protection department from the center or another OL member, because they have enough to think about with just figuring out where the receivers are going to be.

I believe what Zorn was referring to is now JC should know where all his receivers are supposed to be on reflex without thinking, so now all he has to worry about is setting the protection.

This was the same learning curve for McNabb. I actually remember Reid talking about it YEARS ago.

This is where I went back and forth about whether I should be disappointed in Campbell or Zorn. As I've seen more film and heard more, Zorn tried to give Campbell the passing opportunities with 3-4 receivers going down field, but one reason or another, Campbell was unable/did not capitalize on this. Now, I still haven't let this go that when given the opportunity to give the backups game time experience, Zorn chose to go with a meaningless attempt to win a meaningless game. If we had played our backups and rookies, they'd be that much further ahead today (SIGH).

And this is just factually incorrect. I'll point to only one game as an example, because I watched all the "film," diagnosed every play, and came up with exactly the opposite conclusion. The game I am referring to is the second Dallas game. In that game, the Redskins ran ~55 plays, and of those plays, roughly 50% were running plays, and roughly 14% of the TOTAL OFFENSIVE PLAYS were screen plays. Of the remaining 36% of the plays, there was never, not once, more than one option down field, and that option was always double covered. Without exception. 6 additional plays in addition to the 9 screen plays were "one read plays" which means that the QB didn't have a read, it was a complete clear out, or roll away from all of the receivers except for 1. All of these were short routes.

Zorn's playcalling handcuffed the offense. There was no opportunity to go down field. The question is why. I can also tell you that I watched the game with a stop watch, and JC was getting hit on 5 and 7 step drops at 2.3 seconds and below, which doesn't lend itself to a lot of down field options. Anyway, I have a complete play list for you to look at posted in another thread if you're interested, but I'm going to vehemently disagree that JC couldn't find deep receivers that were open, because from what I've seen, there weren't many deep routes called.

Which is not to say that JC was perfect or even played well. I'm not at all arguing for or against JC.

I just disagree with the point that there were 3 and 4 receivers down field and he couldn't find them. My point is that there WEREN'T 3 and 4 receivers down field to find. Joe Montana, with those play calls, couldn't have thrown the ball deep, because there weren't any deep options in the play.

What I'm talking about is; 1) The opportunity for the backups and rookies to experience game time speed and opponents. 2) The opportunity for the coaches to evaluate the players in a real game. 3) The potential for one of the starters to get injured. 4) The opportunity for the fans to see the backups and rookies in a real game, not preseason spurts, no more arguments of 3rd stringers.

No, what you're talking about is that you wanted to see Colt Brennan play. Just come out and say it.

Im starting to get the feeling that the offense is going to be good this year.

From your mouth to God's ears.

[ADF]

This time last year, Zorn was teaching EVERYONE the offense. This included the coaches. Zorn has made mention of the coaches being able to correct the players better than last season.

[HawaiianTime]

And this is just factually incorrect. I'll point to only one game as an example, because I watched all the "film," diagnosed every play, and came up with exactly the opposite conclusion. The game I am referring to is the second Dallas game. In that game, the Redskins ran ~55 plays, and of those plays, roughly 50% were running plays, and roughly 14% of the TOTAL OFFENSIVE PLAYS were screen plays. Of the remaining 36% of the plays, there was never, not once, more than one option down field, and that option was always double covered. Without exception. 6 additional plays in addition to the 9 screen plays were "one read plays" which means that the QB didn't have a read, it was a complete clear out, or roll away from all of the receivers except for 1. All of these were short routes.

Zorn's playcalling handcuffed the offense. There was no opportunity to go down field. The question is why. I can also tell you that I watched the game with a stop watch, and JC was getting hit on 5 and 7 step drops at 2.3 seconds and below, which doesn't lend itself to a lot of down field options. Anyway, I have a complete play list for you to look at posted in another thread if you're interested, but I'm going to vehemently disagree that JC couldn't find deep receivers that were open, because from what I've seen, there weren't many deep routes called.

This was thoroughly discussed based off of the is video, http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81069cc4/Can-Campbell-get-it-done, and this thread, http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=288364&highlight=wilcotts. Wilcotts consistently shows 3-4 receivers going down field and Campbell optioning to go with the short receiver. It was after watching this that I realized that Zorn gave Campbell the passing opportunities to go down field.