Flip flops and governance: Obama not as advertised

[Burgold]

Wait a minute! A politician said something to get elected, then didnt follow through? INCONCEIVABLE! This is unprecedented! Thank God we have guys like Karl Rove around to point these things out. :laugh:

True also.

This is the second thread though in a few weeks (the first was the Pelosi one) where a Democrat does exactly what the Republicans want them to do and they use it as an excuse for a ***** fest. Why on Earth are Republicans upset that Obama would be following policies that they support!

Personally, I don't like a number of Obama's decisions here. I think FISA worked and if it didn't it could be tinkered with. I do not have difficulty with a person changing their opinion based on evidence (which may be the case here with Obama, but not Pelosi), but there is a moral/ethical boundary that Obama has decided to cross just as Bush did. Expediency, ends justifying the means, is not usually a good long term policy.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I'm not sure what there is to refute.

Obama's more hawkish than we thought. I agree that's a good thing.

Domestically, did anyone NOT think he'd spend a lot? Who seriously finds his economics shocking? I don't feel like he 'misled' me into thinking he was a fiscal conservative.

Truthfully, it was McCain's campaign that tried to paint Obama as a dove. Obama was actually the first to talk about getting tough on Pakistan and re-focusing on Afghanistan, for example. As far as Gitmo, he consistently said it would be tough, but needed to be done.

Basically, its not hypocrisy, its some people complaining that they were wrong about Obama's foreign policy 6 months ago, so therefore Obama must be a hypocrite.

I don't think that Obama would somehow deny now that Bush's policies were an "enormous failure," either.

A lot of this has to do with people not even knowing what Bush's policies were, or in the case of Karl Rove, manipulating them.

[Art Monk Fan]

I prefer for our leaders not to govern wearing flip flops -- it's not very professional in my opinion.

[Madison Redskin]

This is the second thread though in a few weeks (the first was the Pelosi one) where a Democrat does exactly what the Republicans want them to do and they use it as an excuse for a ***** fest. Why on Earth are Republicans upset that Obama would be following policies that they support!

Because they are hyper-emotional about Obama and anything he does. Instead of saying, ya know, this guy isn't so bad, they talk about flip flops.

[deejaydana]

I'm loving the lack of critical thinking in this thread. Carry on children.

[USS Redskins]

I sure think it matters to the people that actually voted for Obama based on things he said in his campaign.

Of course, every politician does this but most of us were lead to believe he was above all of that sort of thing ("Hope" & "Change") and also that whatever Bush did in office was evil and he destroyed America.

I guess that's what Rove is implying here.

[@DCGoldPants]

Another reason to vote 3rd party.

Meanwhile the last people you want leading your party are Dick Cheney or Rush Limbaugh. That's not how you win back power.

[DeanCollins]

The good ol' damning with faint praise strategy. Rove offers a blistering critique as well.

As polarizing as Obama is, he has probably equally surprised and not surprised supporters and non-supporters alike in different ways. This is an interesting synopsis.

But the "it's okay when Obama does it" hypocrisy coming from people who blasted Bush for identical measures and actions is hilarious.

at least the right knows how the rest of us felt for 8 years :doh:

Their silence during that period in liken to that of the muslim world about terrorism.

[mcsluggo]

this thread makes my colon hurt.

[alexey]

I sure think it matters to the people that actually voted for Obama based on things he said in his campaign.

Of course, every politician does this but most of us were lead to believe he was above all of that sort of thing ("Hope" & "Change") and also that whatever Bush did in office was evil and he destroyed America.

I guess that's what Rove is implying here.

Yeah looks like our misunderstanding of Obama's actions is not in line with our misunderstanding of his earlier statements.

[hokie4redskins]

I'm not sure what there is to refute.

Obama's more hawkish than we thought. I agree that's a good thing.

Domestically, did anyone NOT think he'd spend a lot? Who seriously finds his economics shocking? I don't feel like he 'misled' me into thinking he was a fiscal conservative.

You're right. I was actually referring to the hypocrisy theme. I should have clarified.

To be fair, I'm not even that concerned with how Obama is handling things on the national security/foreign affairs front. It seems reality has smacked him upside the head since his campaigning days.

It's his domestic policy I'm fairly certain will ruin us. But I digress....

My main point is that Obama is essentially continuing many of Bush's policies. I was simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the Obama supporters who are wittingly ignorant of such stark similiarities in policy. Of course, by their absurd logic, Bush is the rube and Obama is the enlightened statesman.

[@DCGoldPants]

You're right. I was actually referring to the hypocrisy theme. I should have clarified.

To be fair, I'm not even that concerned with how Obama is handling things on the national security/foreign affairs front. It seems reality has smacked him upside the head since his campaigning days.

It's his domestic policy I'm fairly certain will ruin us. But I digress....

My main point is that Obama is essentially continuing many of Bush's policies. I was simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the Obama supporters who are wittingly ignorant of such stark similiarities in policy. Of course, by their absurd logic, Bush is the rube and Obama is the enlightened statesman.

Well, you're right. Today he is continuing. For all we know he's either planning on staying the course....or after seeing the ugly inside of everything. He might decide to transition everything much more slowly over years. How does any of us really know?

We're still only a few months into this admin. Talk to me in a year or two on all these policies. Then we can see what's been kept and what's been changed.

[DeanCollins]

It's his domestic policy I'm fairly certain will ruin us. But I digress....

The hypocrisy is in the notion that the country wasn't ruined before he took office. We've been on the collision course for doomsday for years. Now, in uncharted territory, it's down to putting out fires via trial and error with what's left of the GOP , on the sidelines,playing armchair quarterback with all of the answers. :doh:

[alexey]

To be fair, I'm not even that concerned with how Obama is handling things on the national security/foreign affairs front. It seems reality has smacked him upside the head since his campaigning days.

Yeah Obama is really looking smacked nowadays. He's like a different man out there. He got smacked by reality and all of his youthfull naivette went right out the window.

My main point is that Obama is essentially continuing many of Bush's policies. I was simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the Obama supporters who are wittingly ignorant of such stark similiarities in policy. Of course, by their absurd logic, Bush is the rube and Obama is the enlightened statesman.

Clearly Obama supporters expected him to do the absolute opposite of what Bush did on every single issue. Their ignorance is demonstrated by lack of their outrage at Obama walking on his feet instead of his hands and eating with his mouth instead of his ass - just like Bush did.

[@DCGoldPants]

The hypocrisy is in the notion that the country wasn't ruined before he took office. We've been on the collision course for doomsday for years. Now, in uncharted territory, it's down to putting out fires via trial and error with what's left of the GOP , on the sidelines,playing armchair quarterback with all of the answers. :doh:

I agree, He was sworn in during the middle of an economic crisis. The day after, a chunk of the previous admins party had a come to jesus moment on their economic beliefs. Whatever. That's bull****.

The market appears to have bottomed. New jobless claims have finally started to go down. When you follow a team that paid for a war by cutting taxes. Your options are limited. Cutting more taxes will do what? We go in this situation with cut taxes.

[hokie4redskins]

The hypocrisy is in the notion that the country wasn't ruined before he took office. We've been on the collision course for doomsday for years. Now, in uncharted territory, it's down to putting out fires via trial and error with what's left of the GOP , on the sidelines,playing armchair quarterback with all of the answers. :doh:

Depends. Do you define "ruined" as the lack of accountability at all levels of government, wreckless spending, and the irresponsibility of average Joes living woefully outside their means?

[PeterMP]

Clearly Obama supporters expected him to do the absolute opposite of what Bush did on every single issue. Their ignorance is demonstrated by lack of their outrage at Obama walking on his feet instead of his hands and eating with his mouth instead of his ass - just like Bush did.

alexey, you can be as sarcastic, insulting, and belligerant as you want, but you can't deny what you are seeing is NOT what he promised.

Heck, I'm a Republican, and I'm disappointed in him. There are things that he said he'd do that I want to see done that aren't going to get done (at least not in the manner or the time frame he indicated). Now, I'm a big boy and realize that circumstances change and there are other issues (e.g. getting the votes), but if this isn't the political status quo (over the last 30 years; not just the last 8 (well, really the last 2. It really does seem like it took Bush 6 years to figure things out)), then you need to point out some real differences based on real issues and not meaningless analogies.

Three months ago, I'd told you no way is a 1 term President. Now, I'd put it at 50-50, except there is no way he will accept public financing limits, and he's going to have already raised a boat load of cash.

He's never quit raising money.

[BigMike619]

why in the hell are gas prices still going up?

2.65 a gallon?

[The Evil Genius]

why in the hell are gas prices still going up?

2.65 a gallon?

Because warmer weather is here. And because Memorial Day weekend is near.

[@DCGoldPants]

why in the hell are gas prices still going up?

2.65 a gallon?

Because its gone up this time of the year....just about every year I can remember. They expect the summer travel season, and make up a lame excuse to raise the costs of oil to get more $$$.

Amazing how "expectations" can raise the price. But when its the opposite....the price doesn't drop. Almost like they are corrupt. Oh, wait.

[BigMike619]

Because warmer weather is here. And because Memorial Day weekend is near.

true but it is going up way more then i expected.

i still have a pic when it was 1.77 for midgrade.

[The Evil Genius]

true but it is going up way more then i expected.

i still have a pic when it was 1.77 for midgrade.

I believe the summer additives here in California cost more too...although we are paying roughly $1.50 less than last year at this time.

[DeanCollins]

Depends. Do you define "ruined" as the lack of accountability at all levels of government, wreckless spending, and the irresponsibility of average Joes living woefully outside their means?

That too, but more along the lines of wickedly bad financial indicators and certain economic impending doom for a couple of years now. One thing that you can't fully grasp, living in the Nation's Capital, as I did during other economic downturns, as DC is pretty much recession proof, and how bad it's been in the rest of the country since the beginning of last year.

Where I live, I been watching businesses close steadily for the last three years. We have entire shopping centers with multiple national chains of stores and restaurants closing. It's scary. I own a couple of commercial rentals with tenants, thankfully, but there are dozens of vacant commercial buildings within 2 blocks and leases are up this year. Will I retain this tenants? who knows, it's amazing that their businesses are still up and running.

[alexey]

alexey, you can be as sarcastic, insulting, and belligerant as you want, but you can't deny what you are seeing is NOT what he promised.

Heck, I'm a Republican, and I'm disappointed in him. There are things that he said he'd do that I want to see done that aren't going to get done (at least not in the manner or the time frame he indicated). Now, I'm a big boy and realize that circumstances change and there are other issues (e.g. getting the votes), but if this isn't the political status quo (over the last 30 years; not just the last 8 (well, really the last 2. It really does seem like it took Bush 6 years to figure things out)), then you need to point out some real differences based on real issues and not meaningless analogies.

I am actually seing him doing what he promised... So far I am certainly not seing any evidence of him betraying any principle that I expected him to uphold, except for maybe that lobbying thing. Can you provide some specific examples of what you are talking about?

[PeterMP]

True also.

This is the second thread though in a few weeks (the first was the Pelosi one) where a Democrat does exactly what the Republicans want them to do and they use it as an excuse for a ***** fest. Why on Earth are Republicans upset that Obama would be following policies that they support!

Personally, I don't like a number of Obama's decisions here. I think FISA worked and if it didn't it could be tinkered with. I do not have difficulty with a person changing their opinion based on evidence (which may be the case here with Obama, but not Pelosi), but there is a moral/ethical boundary that Obama has decided to cross just as Bush did. Expediency, ends justifying the means, is not usually a good long term policy.

I think Republicans are "angry" because there is a sense that the democrats "stole" the election by "lying". Than Republicans were right on these issues, but Democrats used them to deamonize Republicans.

With Obama, you can chalk it up to inexperience/neitivity (which was one of the Republicans biggest issues with him). For Pelosi, that's harder to due, which suggest it was pure politics, which nobody ever likes.

(In general, I agree with about the actual issue here.)