WT:Champ's Return

[elkabong82]

Was Champ Bailey injured in '05? We played against the Broncos, and thus Champ, in 2005, so this wouldn't be the first time Bailey is facing us as an opponent unless he was injured or I missed something.

Either way, our D has been fine without Bailey, and CP has been our franchise RB. Bailey has been very good for Denver, and Denver's run game (overall not individual) has been more or less fine without Portis. I don't see why the trade can't be viewed as a win-win.

[brlawson]

Was Champ Bailey injured in '05? We played against the Broncos, and thus Champ, in 2005, so this wouldn't be the first time Bailey is facing us as an opponent unless he was injured or I missed something.

Either way, our D has been fine without Bailey, and CP has been our franchise RB. Bailey has been very good for Denver, and Denver's run game (overall not individual) has been more or less fine without Portis. I don't see why the trade can't be viewed as a win-win.

Exactly. Bailey is the best on their D, Portis our Offensive MVP. We probably would have had to get rid of Bailey anyway, because as it is right now we wouldnt have the dough to have him on our team.

[RenegadeTK]

Exactly. Bailey is the best on their D, Portis our Offensive MVP. We probably would have had to get rid of Bailey anyway, because as it is right now we wouldnt have the dough to have him on our team.

??? we gave springs and ton of money when we signed him and just gave d.hall a ton of money... so that was never an issue

[Goaldeje]

Was Champ Bailey injured in '05? We played against the Broncos, and thus Champ, in 2005, so this wouldn't be the first time Bailey is facing us as an opponent unless he was injured or I missed something.

Either way, our D has been fine without Bailey, and CP has been our franchise RB. Bailey has been very good for Denver, and Denver's run game (overall not individual) has been more or less fine without Portis. I don't see why the trade can't be viewed as a win-win.

We played Den at Den. This is Champ's first game against us in DC. FWIW.

[Stophovr6]

...and when Portis is elected to the hall of fame as a REDSKIN, is that a black mark on Bowlens ownership?

Stupid article.

I don't think we got screwed in this trade. But I have a hard time envisioning Portis in the Hall of Fame.

[RenegadeTK]

I don't think we got screwed in this trade. But I have a hard time envisioning Portis in the Hall of Fame.

knowing Champ will likely be in Canton and CP most likely wont is hard to swallow. but i would trade team success for HOF inductions any day.

our CB play has been solid (though not great at times) in the last couple years and CP has been the biggest part of our offensive success. so the way it looks now, we have a greater chance of success as a result of the trade.

[CPortJGibbs89]

We will see if Baily is healthy for that game. When we went to play at Denver which was his first game playing against the Skins he was hurt.

This has been debated a mile times but I would do that trade 10 out of 10 times. I think it worked out great for both of us.

[da#1skinsfan]

I don't think we got screwed in this trade. But I have a hard time envisioning Portis in the Hall of Fame.

Are you serious?

Portis is behind Earl Campbell on the all-time leading rushers list. He is 27 years old and coming off one of his best years. If he has 4500 more yards in his 6+ years of playing left in the NFL (so approx 775 yards a season avg or HALF of what he has done in his first 6 years) he will be #5 right behind Curtis Martin, Barry, Payton, and Emmitt.

Fact - he is on pace to be a hall of famer. No doubt about it. Just as much as Bailey is if not moreso.

One more tidbit - look at the Broncos defense since Bailey has joined them. Look at the Redskins defense. We actually IMPROVED through the years without Bailey, while their defense has remained mediocre, and we got one of the best young all around RBs in the game.

Ignoring that Bailey has done NOTHING for Denver, and factoring in the 2nd rd pick (which was wasted on Bell) this trade is completely and absolutely even for both teams, great trade.

[Farbod21]

...................................... 2004.....2005.....2006.....2007.....2008......AVG

Broncos Passing Defense........6th......29th......21st......7th......26th......17.8

Redskins Passing Defense.......7th......10th......23rd.....16th.......7th......12.6

Broncos Rushing Offense.........4th......2nd........8th......9th.......12th......7.0

Redskins Rushing Offense.......21st......7th........4th.....12th........8th.....10.4

I fail to see how we lost this trade. We took a bad situation, Champ being a *****, and turned into into a positive. I would do this trade again in a heartbeat.

Ironic how each team is slightly better in the area where they LOST the player...

[Shilsu]

Due to the fact that different players have different values to different teams, both teams lost out on this trade. Redskins lost less, but both teams lost.

Also, some bad fallacies being thrown around.

You want to talk about how poor Denver's defense has been with Champ Bailey, how about you talk about how poor the Redskins offense has been with Clinton Portis.

Also, team success trumps individual success every single time. That's great Portis is racking up the yards, but our team could have been a lot better had we kept Champ Bailey and the 2nd round pick.

Finally, just because the Denver Broncos used that 2nd round pick on Tatum Bell doesn't mean that 2nd round pick was worthless. If you buy a fake Rolex off of a gambling addict for $500 and he immediately gambles that money away, does that mean you won the trade because he got nothing for the money? Of course not.

[Vicious]

Champ had to leave for family reasons, so, we did the right thing. At least that is what I am lead to understand.

[RenegadeTK]

I fail to see how we lost this trade. We took a bad situation, Champ being a *****, and turned into into a positive. I would do this trade again in a heartbeat.

Champ being a *****???

what am i forgetting?

[Stophovr6]

Are you serious?

Portis is behind Earl Campbell on the all-time leading rushers list. He is 27 years old and coming off one of his best years. If he has 4500 more yards in his 6+ years of playing left in the NFL (so approx 775 yards a season avg or HALF of what he has done in his first 6 years) he will be #5 right behind Curtis Martin, Barry, Payton, and Emmitt.

Fact - he is on pace to be a hall of famer. No doubt about it. Just as much as Bailey is if not moreso.

One more tidbit - look at the Broncos defense since Bailey has joined them. Look at the Redskins defense. We actually IMPROVED through the years without Bailey, while their defense has remained mediocre, and we got one of the best young all around RBs in the game.

Ignoring that Bailey has done NOTHING for Denver, and factoring in the 2nd rd pick (which was wasted on Bell) this trade is completely and absolutely even for both teams, great trade.

If it was just based on stats, Maybe. But the Monk debacle taught me that there are too much politics involved to be based solely on merit. Also I don't think he has 6+ years of tread left. Hope he proves me wrong.

One thing that could propel him would be a Superbowl or two. Otherwise I fear most Redskins of this decade will be forgotten when Hall of Fame selections roll around.

[PleaseBlitz]

Champ being a *****???

what am i forgetting?

He wanted to leave the area due to "family reasons."

I really have no problem with Champ. He was a good player for us and a professional during a time when the people running the franchise were anything but.

[Dictator]

Lets face facts. Champ never was, never has been a true shut down corner. He gives up tons of plays with denver. Just as he did his best to make Amani toomer a HOF player when he was here. I'd say our secondary as a whole has been better since he left

[Arsenic]

Glancing at this thread, before opening, I said to myself "No Way".

Im not quite sure how I would feel about "Champ's Return"

Happy.. i think?

[RenegadeTK]

Lets face facts. Champ never was, never has been a true shut down corner. He gives up tons of plays with denver. Just as he did his best to make Amani toomer a HOF player when he was here. I'd say our secondary as a whole has been better since he left

while he did get burned by toomer while he was here, let's not be bitter. im not sure how you personally would define a shutdown corner, but if there have been any shutdown corners in the NFL in the past 10 years, Champ Bailey is on that list.

[hokie4redskins]

Could very well be an unsubstantiated rumor, but I thought Champ left because he ended up impregnating some woman who was not his wife. I'll criticize Snyder for his incompetence over the last decade, but I don't think there's much either him or Gibbs could have done to keep Champ. Dude was out.

Besides, Portis has been great for us.

[Xero21]

while he did get burned by toomer while he was here, let's not be bitter. im not sure how you personally would define a shutdown corner, but if there have been any shutdown corners in the NFL in the past 10 years, Champ Bailey is on that list.

Many people say that there in fact has not been a shutdown corner in the NFL since D. Sanders was in his prime

[TheLongshot]

I don't think we got screwed in this trade. But I have a hard time envisioning Portis in the Hall of Fame.

Likely after next year he will be the all time leading rusher for the Redskins. He also has a good shot at being among the top rushers ever. If you are able to get yourself in the top 15 all time, you are pretty close to being a shoo-in. The only guys up there who are not in are also not eligible yet. Other than getting hurt, the only other thing that could stop him would be the team's performance. Even so, his chances are pretty decent.

[Whiskeypeet]

How has it been a good trade for Denver? Their defense is terrible. I don't see how Champ, while playing great, has really helped them become better defensively.

Not that he is a detriment to their team or anything but I would view this similarly to how I view the acquisition of Portis from the Redskins' perspective. While Portis has been good through his tenure in D.C. the offense hasn't been so good.

I'm not sure either team "made out" from this trade.

[RenegadeTK]

Many people say that there in fact has not been a shutdown corner in the NFL since D. Sanders was in his prime

even so, it's hard to argue with Champ being the closest... especially if we could talk to a couple offensive coordinators and qb coaches that have to gameplan around him

[TheLongshot]

Also, team success trumps individual success every single time. That's great Portis is racking up the yards, but our team could have been a lot better had we kept Champ Bailey and the 2nd round pick.

Finally, just because the Denver Broncos used that 2nd round pick on Tatum Bell doesn't mean that 2nd round pick was worthless. If you buy a fake Rolex off of a gambling addict for $500 and he immediately gambles that money away, does that mean you won the trade because he got nothing for the money? Of course not.

A bit over the top, methinks. The difference between Champ and Springs is not that huge. Both guys are among the best in the business. Really, the main difference is Springs' injury history.

Also, the 2nd rounder is probably going to be a solid starter. While you always have a possiblity of a bust (Bell) or greatness (Portis), most of them just become solid starters. A lot better? I don't think so. Possibly a little bit, tho we might have churned at running back a bit where it hasn't been a position of worry since the trade.

Course, this all puts aside the fact that Champ wasn't likely to be here for the long term for many reasons which includes both the team and the player.

[DCsportsfan53]

If anything, we should've received the 2nd rounder as CBs carry more value than RBs. It's not like Bailey wasn't already considered a top 3 CB at the time of the trade. As for his play, I don't know, I think he gets overrated due to reputation at times. He's had some so-so years there and they're defense has been absolutely horrendous for a good 2-3 years now. Considering their awful defense and his lower level of play the last two years when contrasted with Portis performance (at least 1200 yards in all but one season) I think it's hard to argue that they've gotten more out of the trade on the field. In fact, one could probably make a better case for the opposite. Regardless, the Redskins have sooooo many different FO screw ups to pick from. So, so many stupid decisions. Why people insist on bringing this one back up as a black mark when it's worked out pretty well for both teams is beyond me.

[Rocky52Mc]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/redskins/2009/apr/15/champs-return/

Do you guys view the Bailey/Portis trade as a black mark on Snyder's ownership? I certainly don't think it was a bad move for either team. Portis has been great here and has not disappointed. Bailey has been great for Denver as well. It's not like the Broncos has won a SB with Champ, so I don't see how this would be a black mark on Snyder.

Clinton Portis is the best thing to hit this team since we won a Superbowl.