WT:Champ's Return

[BigMike619]

It's a black mark on Snyder because Champ would not sign a deal to stay in DC??? He didnt want to be here. Duh.. Snyder did what he could...

Portis will retire as the Redskins Leading rusher. He has been the workhorse of the offense for most of his 5 seasons and if the team actually had a good QB during any part of this time, the Skins might have been better.

The 2nd round pick the Skins gave up always stuck in my throat but what the heck...

he wasnt staying...you are so right. he made that abundantly clear.

portis loves being here and is going to retire our best RB ever. i love riggo but portis will have more yards then him...

[RenegadeTK]

Clinton Portis is the best thing to hit this team since we won a Superbowl.

let's not exaggerate too much

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Are you serious?

Portis is behind Earl Campbell on the all-time leading rushers list. He is 27 years old and coming off one of his best years. If he has 4500 more yards in his 6+ years of playing left in the NFL (so approx 775 yards a season avg or HALF of what he has done in his first 6 years) he will be #5 right behind Curtis Martin, Barry, Payton, and Emmitt.

Fact - he is on pace to be a hall of famer. No doubt about it. Just as much as Bailey is if not moreso.

One more tidbit - look at the Broncos defense since Bailey has joined them. Look at the Redskins defense. We actually IMPROVED through the years without Bailey, while their defense has remained mediocre, and we got one of the best young all around RBs in the game.

Ignoring that Bailey has done NOTHING for Denver, and factoring in the 2nd rd pick (which was wasted on Bell) this trade is completely and absolutely even for both teams, great trade.

Dude, where do you get off coming here, and posting something logical? Get out of here with that.

[Rocky52Mc]

let's not exaggerate too much

OK, maybe I'm a slight bit off. He's the best thing to happen to this offense for sure. You could argue that Santana Moss or Chris brought an intense impact but Clinton Portis provides a killer running game that this team has possessed for a few years. It's the mark of this team.

[bigevhfan]

Hated the trade at first mainly because we gave up a better player at a skill position AND a second round pick. I have always felt that unless your name is Barry Sanders, then as a running back was only as good as the line in front of you. And given Denver routinely putting out no name 1,200 yards backs at the time, I thought we got screwed royally on this trade. But in hindsight now, I think it's even. Obviously, Clinton has put up some nice statistical years, but the fact that he has carried the teams at times is something Chump could never do. I loved Champ when he was here. But, he quit on the Redskins. If he was loyal to the team, he would have signed for less (still being a multi-millionaire) and helped the team out. But he chose the dollar over loyalty and his teamates. And for that, I'll boo as loud as I can at him when he comes to Fed Ex.

[skeenzfan]

Regardless of how Bailey is doing, how portis has done or whom they took with that particular pick, we did overpay for him.

CB's ( in this case young, pro-bowl and shut down CB) carry much more value than a probowl RB and we should have gotten portis and picks in the trade and not the other way around.

We could have done the same trade but received much better value. Bailey at that time was perceived to be the second coming of Sanders and his market value was so much higher than Portis. So yes at that point in time we did get fleeced in the trade.

[Arsenic]

He wanted to leave the area due to "family reasons."

I really have no problem with Champ. He was a good player for us and a professional during a time when the people running the franchise were anything but.

Didn't he, allegedly, cheat on his wife/gf with a local reporter?

I remember hearing that somewhere..

If so, you must admit it was swept under the blanket nicely by the Washignton Redskins organization and DC Reporters..

I believe this trade favored us greatly. Afterall, we've had great CB's ever since and CP is the heart and of our offense.

[RenegadeTK]

OK, maybe I'm a slight bit off. He's the best thing to happen to this offense for sure. You could argue that Santana Moss or Chris brought an intense impact but Clinton Portis provides a killer running game that this team has possessed for a few years. It's the mark of this team.

i definitely agree CP has been one of the biggest factors of our success.

in the end, i think people have to consider that our offense and defense have improved despite the trade. and while champ has been great, their defense is slacking (the unfortunate death of d.williams really hurt) and they are struggling to replace CP

[[[ghost]]]

Springs played better for the Skins than Bailey did. Champ is pretty overrated. I can't even count how many times he got burned by everybody: Amani Toomer, Steve Smith, David Boston, Chad Johnson, Bill Schroeder, etc. etc.

Don't forget Michael Jenkins.

[Bigredskin77]

Dumbest trade ever. Idiots gave up a second when they really didnt need to. Front office is terrible

[bigevhfan]

Regardless of how Bailey is doing, how portis has done or whom they took with that particular pick, we did overpay for him.

CB's ( in this case young, pro-bowl and shut down CB) carry much more value than a probowl RB and we should have gotten portis and picks in the trade and not the other way around.

We could have done the same trade but received much better value. Bailey at that time was perceived to be the second coming of Sanders and his market value was so much higher than Portis. So yes at that point in time we did get fleeced in the trade.

Exactly. Denver needed this trade more than Washington. We should have gotten Portis and a second IMO. But everyone knows that when Danny wants something (esp. a big name like Portis) that he will overpay to get it.

[TheLongshot]

Regardless of how Bailey is doing, how portis has done or whom they took with that particular pick, we did overpay for him.

CB's ( in this case young, pro-bowl and shut down CB) carry much more value than a probowl RB and we should have gotten portis and picks in the trade and not the other way around.

We could have done the same trade but received much better value. Bailey at that time was perceived to be the second coming of Sanders and his market value was so much higher than Portis. So yes at that point in time we did get fleeced in the trade.

Dumbest trade ever. Idiots gave up a second when they really didnt need to. Front office is terrible

Problem is, Denver had all the leverage. We were up against it capwise and to do anything in FA Champ needed to be gone. Meanwhile Portis was in the third year of his rookie contract and didn't have to be traded.

So, yeah, the 2nd probably had to be paid to pry Portis from Denver. While I thought it was a little steep at the time, I have no regrets about that trade.

[BigMike619]

we had trung freaking candidate back there!! we were definitely between a rock and a hard place.

[Bigredskin77]

we had trung freaking candidate back there!! we were definitely between a rock and a hard place.

We could have easily drafted a running back in the drat. Stephen Jackson and Kevin Williams both fell late.

[Bigredskin77]

Problem is, Denver had all the leverage. We were up against it capwise and to do anything in FA Champ needed to be gone. Meanwhile Portis was in the third year of his rookie contract and didn't have to be traded.

So, yeah, the 2nd probably had to be paid to pry Portis from Denver. While I thought it was a little steep at the time, I have no regrets about that trade.

So you draft a running and get a pick or picks for him. That would have been the smart thing to do.

[BigMike619]

We could have easily drafted a running back in the drat. Stephen Jackson and Kevin Williams both fell late.

why would we take a risk in hoping that steven jackson panned out?

you see Portis and he is up for trade you pull the trigger. they want bailey? cool, he is leaving anyways!!

we basically gave up a 2nd round pick for Portis.

[Bigredskin77]

why would we take a risk in hoping that steven jackson panned out?

you see Portis and he is up for trade you pull the trigger. they want bailey? cool, he is leaving anyways!!

we basically gave up a 2nd round pick for Portis.

Why waste a pick and cap room on Portis and hope he pans out. Portis had a good line in Denver which was the reason he was so good. If steven Jackson didnt pan out then you get a RB in free agency the next year. Giving up the second round pick was no need for it and they just gave it away. Should have traded for picks which would have been the smart move.

1st round pick give you 2 picks in the first round. Champ would have been gone. Instead you give up Champ and a 2nd round for 1 player and hope he pans out. No way thats a stupid move.

Champ and Second round pick is greater the 1 running back

[Renegade7]

This game has serious blow out potential. Not only is Denver going to suck this year, this is a home game with both Portis and Campbell both having something to prove.

[BigMike619]

Why waste a pick and cap room on Portis and hope he pans out. Portis had a good line in Denver which was the reason he was so good. If steven Jackson didnt pan out then you get a RB in free agency the next year. Giving up the second round pick was no need for it and they just gave it away. Should have traded for picks which would have been the smart move.

having 2 1500 yard seasons isnt exactly a risk. but yet you wanna take a risk on a rookie in steve jackson and if that doesnt work go do the same thing when portis ISNT available?

1st round pick give you 2 picks in the first round. Champ would have been gone. Instead you give up Champ and a 2nd round for 1 player and hope he pans out. No way thats a stupid move.

Champ and Second round pick is greater the 1 running back

but Champ was leaving anyways. he made that clear. we all knew he wasnt going to stick around. so basically we traded a player who was going to leave and a second round pick for a good RB.

sounds almost like what you were saying to do anyways.

[SkinsMaster88]

It's a trade that benefited both teams. Shawn Springs in 2004 had a better season for us than Champ did when he was here. Champ had a couple great seasons in Denver, but he's had some injury issues as well. How long will he last as a top CB? Portis is still young, and while he's had a lot of wear, he still can put up 1,500-yd seasons and be among the top backs with only the 2006 season being the exception where he had a freak injury in the preseason.

Take a look at the impact on their teams:

Leading rusher for the Redskins (total yards from scrimmage):

2002: Davis (962 yds, 8 TDs)

2003: Candidate (671 yds, 2 TDs)

2004: Portis (1550 yds (9th in NFL), 7 TDs)

2005: Portis (1732 yds (6th), 11 TDs (9th), franchise rushing record, main reason for Redskins making playoffs)

2006: Portis (injured entire season, still extrapolated stats of 1386 yds, 14 TDs)

2007: Portis (1651 yds (3rd), 11 TDs (4th), another season that came through in December for late playoff run)

2008: Portis (1705 yds (4th), 9 TDs, midseason league MVP favorite)

Portis has been the overall MVP of the Redskins if you take into account his impact and what he's done for the team since we got him. Is he the most consistent player? No. Is he the same home run threat he used to be when he was the AD before AD in Denver? No. But as he goes, our offense goes. With our stagnant passing attack throughout a lot of 2004-2008, the weight has been on CP most of the time. And most of the time, he's delivered as well as most any RB in the NFL.

In Denver, they've had a different leading rusher the last 5 seasons since Portis left.

(Total yards from scrimmage)

2004: Droughns: 1481 yds, 8 TDs

2005: Anderson: 1226 yds, 13 TDs

2006: Bell: 1140 yds, 2 TDs

2007: Young: 960 yds, 1 TD

2008: Hilis: 522 yds, 6 TDs

The all-powerful, unstoppable, interchangeable Shanahan rushing offense dropped off every year since Portis left. And keep in mind they're in the pathetic rush Ds of the AFC West where you have KC and OAK to play 4 times a season.

-----

Now, look at Bailey.

Washington D rankings:

Pts Allowed:

2003: 24

2004: 5

2005: 9

2006: 27

2007: 11

2008: 6

Yds Allowed:

2003: 24

2004: 3

2005: 9

2006: 31

2007: 8

2008: 4

Denvers D rankings:

Pts Allowed:

2003: 9

2004: 9

2005: 3

2006: 8

2007: 28

2008: 30

Yds Allowed:

2003: 4

2004: 4

2005: 15

2006: 14

2007: 19

2008: 29

Champ's last 4 years here, he had average of 15.8 PDs and 2.8 INTs a season. In Denver, he's had 2 seasons (2005-06) where he combined for avg of 22 PDs, 9 INTs, and 1.5 TDs, but his other 3 seasons, he's averaged 10.8 PDs and 2.8 INTs (factored for injury).

Meanwhile, Shawn Springs averaged 11 PDs and 3 INTs a season (factored for injury). Carlos Rogers averaged 18.8 PDs and 1.6 INTs a season since becoming a regular starter. Deangelo Hall stats extrapolate out to 21.3 PDs and 5.3 INTs a season.

Point is, we've been able to make Portis the focal point and MVP of our offense. And we've replaced Bailey without too much of a drop off.

Meanwhile, the Broncos have missed the playoffs for the last 3 years, with both their running game and overall defense suffering.

Say what you want, but in my mind, the Redskins still got the better of the trade. You can't blame Snyder, Vinny, and Gibbs for the move they made. Bailey was being offered the richest contract to a CB, but he wanted (and got more). Bailey didn't want to play here. If we didn't trade him, it would just be like all the other good CBs that switch teams. What does Buffalo have to show for letting go of Nate Clements? What does NE have to show for letting go of Asante Samuel? We got a top-5 running back in the NFL for our top-rated CB.

[Note: That was way too much stats and research to prove this point, so I'm likely to be coming back to this point if anyone else brings up this Portis/Bailey trade argument again].

[TheLongshot]

We could have easily drafted a running back in the drat. Stephen Jackson and Kevin Williams both fell late.

Jackson wasn't even close to being available where we picked in the 2nd round. I'm not sure who Kevin Williams is, since there wasn't one taken in 2004. The choices at RB at that 2nd round pick was Bell and Julius Jones. Not exactly players I'd trade in Portis for.

So you draft a running and get a pick or picks for him. That would have been the smart thing to do.

I don't know, I think it was pretty smart to replace one great player with another one, especially one who hasn't entered his prime yet. It is uncertain if anyone offered an 1st round pick for Champ. The only other strong rumor at the time involved three players, none of which were as great as Portis.

[Bigredskin77]

having 2 1500 yard seasons isnt exactly a risk. but yet you wanna take a risk on a rookie in steve jackson and if that doesnt work go do the same thing when portis ISNT available?

but Champ was leaving anyways. he made that clear. we all knew he wasnt going to stick around. so basically we traded a player who was going to leave and a second round pick for a good RB.

sounds almost like what you were saying to do anyways.

That was with denver when he had 2 1500 yard seasons. He proved nothing in a washington redskin uniform just like Jackson. Jackson was all time leading rusher at Oregon St. But you might say college is different then pros. AFC west is different from NFC east.

So champ was leaving yes. Why not get the most out of him. 1st round pick or multiple picks. Atlanta was offering a 1st and a 3rd rounder for him. But the redskins didnt want it. When was portis ever worth a first and a third round pick. Never. It was a dumb decision. If they didnt want the to just trade Bailey for Portis then they could have just kicked rocks and traded him to someone else. He would have still had to play that year for us because he was franchise tagged.

[BigMike619]

That was with denver when he had 2 1500 yard seasons. He proved nothing in a washington redskin uniform just like Jackson. Jackson was all time leading rusher at Oregon St. But you might say college is different then pros. AFC west is different from NFC east.

Pac10 is different then both. weaker, less talent. Portis was busting out 1500 yard clips. he had done it in an NFL uniform no matter where he played.

So champ was leaving yes. Why not get the most out of him. 1st round pick or multiple picks. Atlanta was offering a 1st and a 3rd rounder for him. But the redskins didnt want it. When was portis ever worth a first and a third round pick. Never. It was a dumb decision. If they didnt want the to just trade Bailey for Portis then they could have just kicked rocks and traded him to someone else. He would have still had to play that year for us because he was franchise tagged.

it wasnt dumb because it worked. you want to gamble on a player who has never even laced them up in the NFL but when someone gambles on a player who is busting out 1500 yard seasons year after year you call it dumb? that right there sounds hypocritical to me.

[Bigredskin77]

Jackson wasn't even close to being available where we picked in the 2nd round. I'm not sure who Kevin Williams is, since there wasn't one taken in 2004. The choices at RB at that 2nd round pick was Bell and Julius Jones. Not exactly players I'd trade in Portis for.

I don't know, I think it was pretty smart to replace one great player with another one, especially one who hasn't entered his prime yet. It is uncertain if anyone offered an 1st round pick for Champ. The only other strong rumor at the time involved three players, none of which were as great as Portis.

If we traded for a first rounder we would have had 2 first round picks and a second rounder of our own. All top 3 running backs were on the board when Denver picked.Kevin Jones, Stephen jackson, and Chris Perry. Thats how you build championship through the draft. Look at how much defensive talent there was in the second round.

[Bigredskin77]

Pac10 is different then both. weaker, less talent. Portis was busting out 1500 yard clips. he had done it in an NFL uniform no matter where he played.

it wasnt dumb because it worked. you want to gamble on a player who has never even laced them up in the NFL but when someone gambles on a player who is busting out 1500 yard seasons year after year you call it dumb? that right there sounds hypocritical to me.

Its dumb to give up the second rounder. Champ had been going to the pro bowl every year. Its harder to find a shut down corner in the NFL then it is a RB. I was saying trade champ to someone else for a first rounder if Denver didnt want to take the bailey Portis trade straight up and let us keep our 2nd round pick. It was done to throw in a pick that we didnt need to throw in.