eljeasel Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Here goes a breakdown of my thoughts on alot of these popular, but perhaps incorrect conclusions present on ES. -Campbell success this season, you site his increased accuracy and passer rating, both can be attributed to the amount of times he checked the ball down. Yes and No. Check out this stat. Its the yard per attempt split into first and 2nd halves of the season (not games). 1st half ypa: 7.6 1st half INTs: 0 1st half TDs: 8 1st half games with rating of 90 or above: 6 2nd half ypa: 5.4 2nd half Ints: 6 2nd half TDs: 5 2nd half games with rating of 90 or above: 0 Why does this matter? He played his best ball int he first half of the season, the only thing youd want to see more of is a higher number of TDs but when you play that mistake free, it might not matter (outside of fantasy football). Notice how 7.6 ypa is a pretty high number and even though its a team stat, it shows Campbell's part too. In the first half of the season Z's offense attacked and Campbell was sharp spreading the ball over the field including downfield in a budding vertical attack. If you checkdowned too much, youd expect the ypa to be down around 6 or sub 6. Also notice how his stats plummet when the O starts relying on underneath along with Campbell checking down. He plays well when you let him pass downfield and 6-2 tells me that he was checking down when he was supposed to, not too much. To say this its soley Jason Campbell flatly ignores the rest of the team. -The whole systems complaint I don't really by because many other first round qb's have caught onto their systems in their first season, and Campbell has run a WCO before don't forget. -Formation, Terminology, etc... does change thats why you have an offseason, thats why you study the playbook, you are paid millions of dollars to do so, if other qb's can get it done that much faster it leads me to believe Jason won't ever get it done. This is kind of one point so I will adress it as one. Jason Campbell played in a WCO before. And his great play in the first half of the season would have lead you to believe this was the breakout we were waiting for. Who knows how different this playbook is from any other WCO. Of course, instead of adding to the playbook, Z strangely took plays out, shrinking the playbook. The result, an offense so conservative that players, opponents, and announcers all commented that the Redskins rarely even run routes beyond the first downmarker late in the season. Not even Gibbs was that conservative. Also, Z has commented that he didnt even have his playbook finished by the start of the year. Are you saying Campbell should have learned a playbook that didnt even exist? -What happened with Campbell? Teams saw he did horrible against the pressure so they brought it, doing so also helped stuff the run, but allowed for the occasional run to be busted, if you get by the blitz. This is flat out false. Campbell is not bad against the blitz Lets do a breakdown of QBs in the division under the blitz Romo sits to pee 96 completions out of 164 attempts for 58%. 1335 yards, 6TDs, 6INTs, 59 first downs, 8 sacks McNabb 108 Completions out of 196 attempts for 55%. 1388 yards, 10tds, 4 ints, 64 1sts and 11 sacks Manning 97 completions out of 191 attempts for 50%. 1188 yards, 4 TDs, 6 ints, 64 1sts and 15 sacks. Campbell 106 out of 176 for 60%. 1188 yards, 4 TDs, 4ints, 64 1sts, 13 sacks. Hes at least as good as everyone in the division outside of McNabb. And Considering Romo sits to pee and McNabb both missed at least a half of football and both have more attempts against blitzes doesnt that mean teams blitzed Campbell less than other qbs at least as far as the NFCE goes? Teams didnt have to blitz especially when Samuels's knee wore down. You cant put TEs over both the Tackles to help and expect an offense to do anything. Teams got pressure and early sacks with 5,4, and even 3 rushers. -The receivers weren't great but qb's have done a lot more with worst receiving cores, Moss was a top 5 WR but 3 years ago with Brunell and I bet you don't even remember who his #2 at the time was. Yeah, that was great, but what was different back then? Let me suggest we look at the line. 28 year old Samuels 25 year old Dock 28 year old Rabach 29 year old Thomas before 2 season ending injuries, one to the lower body 28 year old Jansen again with some serious season enders Also, Santana had a 1000 yard season, not a great example of showing that Campbell cant use his weapons. No, the real difference between this team and that team is RZ offense. In 2005-2006 Sellers had 7 receiving TDs all RZ TDs. People give Gibbs crap for being old school, fact is, that brutal old school offense worked, especially in the RZ. It wasnt great, but it scored more than we have in the years following. What do we do now with Sellers? Let him swan dive? We only threw to him 2-3 times in the RZ. One was a TD, one bounced off his hands (maybe it was Campbell throwing too hard, I put that one on big mike). Theres the offensive woes, its all RZ. Check my sig. -Yet Campbells problems still remain, its not as if he's calling the wrong play(which might be due to new playbook) [Z is calling the plays not Campbell] or as if teams are rushing 4 and dropping into coverage and successfully pressuring him(the false belief many people here believe) [its not false, see above, hes not struggling against the blitz]. He's throwing a 90 mph fastball to receivers and not in stride, he's throwing 10 feet above their head, he doesn't throw to open spaces he throws to open receivers(can't do this against an NFL zone defense, may be man) [this may be true, but until we get receivers who actually run good routes Im not sold on this]. He doesn't go through his reads quickly and frequently checks down, to recievers in front of the first down marker[this is contrary to his coaches saying hes going too fast through his reads? And if there are 4 routes that all are run short of the 1st down marker who is that on?]. These problems all remain constant no matter the system, no matter the coach, no matter the line, that is Jason Campbell in a nutshell, he was a 1st round reach and we failed Not really, he has always put up enough yards, the only this he doesnt do well is put up gaudy TD numbers. Considering we have struggled in the RZ all the way back to 2005-2006 season I tend to think its not QB.. Here, try this http://extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=6246718&postcount=101 and this http://extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=6138604&postcount=68 Its not secret he played on one of the best teams in College Football and thats probably why he had success... both his rb's were drafted top 5 this is true, but Im not sure how relevant it is. Thanks for reading and I look foward to people's input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Campbell isn't a leader, he may one day succeed again if he has pro-bowl team surrounding him, but until then he will remain a sub-par qb, not the franchise qb the skins so desperately need. That seems to be the big "if" about Campbell. "If" everything around him is perfect, he's a good QB. If the RB is healthy and strong, the line is perfect, everyone gets blocking assignments and runs perfect routes, etcetera and so on. Then he can be good. So can every other QB going all the way down to the High School and Little League ranks, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCskin Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yep Madden said Colt had the "IT" Factor. Im pulling for JC but i am interested to see what colt does in preseason now with a year under his belt. So did Steve Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Good grief would you please stop with the "this is the city that hates QB's" b.s.Clearly you have no idea what's happening in most NFL cities across the country..........and make it seem discussions such as this happen much more frequently here. Visit Philly one of these days and let me know what's happening there. QFT, and McNabb is actually a damn good qb. JC, and his fragile ego, would need to be checked into a psyche ward if he was subjected to what McNabb gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGREENHULK Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yep Madden said Colt had the "IT" Factor. Im pulling for JC but i am interested to see what colt does in preseason now with a year under his belt. I'd be interested in seeing Colt play against another teams 1's......He didn't play top competition in college and played against 3rd and 4th teamers last year in the preseason. At least when he gets picked or sacked we won't have to hear the "Give Colt a Shot" chants...I can see the headline now "COLT SHOOTS BLANKS"..but hey give the kid a chance to start in the preseason..maybe he will prove me wrong...but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCDiesel44 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I really think that if Stephon Heyer improves on last year he will be a quality starter for us, especially with the guidance from guys like Samuels, Thomas, and Jansen. We just re-signed guard Dockery who is only 29 years old. I say we draft a young DE opposite Carter and alongside Haynesworth to create sacks and turnovers for our defense. With our 3rd round pick we should select a center such as Shipley from Penn State to replace Rabach. This would give us three o-lineman in their 20's and the other 2 (Samuels and Thomas) have enough in the tank for another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[S.S.F. | Nero] Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Bradshaw is pulling for Colt because he is the backup underdog. Had the team beaten a couple of far inferior teams last year (Rams and Bengals come to mind, don't forget the 49ers) we wouldn't hear Colt's name at all until injury, and even then it would be mixed in with Todd Collins - *shudders*. Campbell is tall with a great feel. Colt Brennan is short. This means he has to work harder to make plays, think of a Doug Flutie. Campbell works behind a patchy line that hasn't played consistently together as a unit since late 2006. His receivers are small and run inconsistent routes with suspect hands (far too many on the money passes from JC have been dropped by little receivers who are clearly afraid of getting eviscerated by a defender). CATCH THE BALL. The larger receivers have been drafted but will likely need 1 more year of seasoning before becoming forces (Kelly, Thomas, Davis). Everyone should thank Jason Campbell for turning the ball over just once during our 6-2 start last year.... that had alot to do with our 6-2 start by the way. Everyone should remember that Jason went from 19 turnovers in 2007 (in only 13 games) to 7 turnovers in a full 16 games in 2008. That is an improvement if you ask me.... Not every team has a playmaker QB you fickle fanatics!!! Teams can win handily by playing solid D, and good enough offense. This teams problem is NOT the QB. The problem is the OFFENSIVE LINE - because it is old and slow and beatable by the younger, hungrier defensive linemen and linebackers in the league. We mortgaged the farm by selling our draft picks for players like TJ Duckett and Brandon Lloyd, and by drafting people like Taylor Jacobs in the 2nd round. Now that we have the skill players in place, they can't execute because defenses are peppering our ball thrower before he can even get the back of his drop! They're running around, over, and through our beat up, old linemen. Do you people even see the games!!!! Do you understand football!!!!!! COLT needs to earn his way in. JC needs to show why he should stay. Neither of them will be successfull with the shoddy line play that we have seen the last 2 seasons....... it's called DEPTH. Something the Redskins should invest more time in..... Everything in football can be traced back to O Line play. Even defensive stamina (due to resting during sustained drives, predicated on excellent offensive line play). O line gets fixed, Skins win a couple of those heartbreakers. Fans happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 ;6248494'] O line gets fixed' date=' Skins win a couple of those heartbreakers. Fans happy.[/size'] Many here would argue that if the QB position gets fixed, Skins win a couple of those heartbreakers. Fans happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Brennan is 6'3". I don't know what planet that qualifies as "short." Not saying that makes or breaks a QB, but Jason being two inches taller certainly hasn't set him apart from anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[S.S.F. | Nero] Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Many here would argue that if the QB position gets fixed, Skins win a couple of those heartbreakers. Fans happy. What did the QB do to lose games for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[S.S.F. | Nero] Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Brennan is 6'3". I don't know what planet that qualifies as "short."Not saying that makes or breaks a QB, but Jason being two inches taller certainly hasn't set him apart from anyone. He looks shorter than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 ;6248519']He looks shorter than that. You can't compare Brennan to Flutie in height. I'm not sure Flutie was even 6 feet tall. He's at least 3 inches shorter than Brennan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 i hate that **** bradshaw but thanks for posting this anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[S.S.F. | Nero] Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 You can't compare Brennan to Flutie in height. I'm not sure Flutie was even 6 feet tall. He's at least 3 inches shorter than Brennan. Sorry. My mistake. I hope you got more out of my post than that however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 ;6248677']Sorry. My mistake. I hope you got more out of my post than that however... I did get more out of your post than that, sure. And I agree that a portion of the offenses problems can be attributed to the offensive line. But I also think that if the team had a better QB, one that made quick decisions and could read the entire field, that the line's deficiencies would be greatly mitigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 -If Zorn didnt think JC could get it done next year, he would say that Colt was the starter and get colt ready now in this offseason. But the fact is Zorn thinks JC will be the QB to lead this team into the post season next year, and that is why he is the starter. Zorn announced Jason the starter before hardly stepping foot into his office. We hadn't even drafted Colt yet.He was obviously hired as an Offensive Coordinator to help develop Campbell. Makes you wonder what choice Zorn has in the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QFT, and McNabb is actually a damn good qb. JC, and his fragile ego, would need to be checked into a psyche ward if he was subjected to what McNabb gets. Totally disagree. I can remember JC being booed off the field at least twice his junior year at Auburn and benched at least once. It only made him work harder and win 13 games his senior year and SEC MVP. I'm telling you, JC is a lot tougher mentally than some people give him credit to be. Fan criticism really doesn't get to JC. "Campbell brushes aside the criticism. "People are really getting absurd with the stuff they're saying right now," Campbell said. "I'm the quarterback of this team, and I work hard to prepare myself and be a leader. You can't tell anything about how much someone cares about their job, about what's going on, from watching them on TV on the sideline." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yes and No. Check out this stat. Its the yard per attempt split into first and 2nd halves of the season (not games). 1st half ypa: 7.6 1st half INTs: 0 1st half TDs: 8 1st half games with rating of 90 or above: 6 2nd half ypa: 5.4 2nd half Ints: 6 2nd half TDs: 5 2nd half games with rating of 90 or above: 0 Why does this matter? He played his best ball int he first half of the season, the only thing youd want to see more of is a higher number of TDs but when you play that mistake free, it might not matter (outside of fantasy football). Notice how 7.6 ypa is a pretty high number and even though its a team stat, it shows Campbell's part too. In the first half of the season Z's offense attacked and Campbell was sharp spreading the ball over the field including downfield in a budding vertical attack. If you checkdowned too much, youd expect the ypa to be down around 6 or sub 6. Also notice how his stats plummet when the O starts relying on underneath along with Campbell checking down. He plays well when you let him pass downfield and 6-2 tells me that he was checking down when he was supposed to, not too much. To say this its soley Jason Campbell flatly ignores the rest of the team. -Down 2 YPA is a huge difference, and shows that he was checking down far more the second half of the season... This is kind of one point so I will adress it as one. Jason Campbell played in a WCO before. And his great play in the first half of the season would have lead you to believe this was the breakout we were waiting for. Who knows how different this playbook is from any other WCO. Of course, instead of adding to the playbook, Z strangely took plays out, shrinking the playbook. The result, an offense so conservative that players, opponents, and announcers all commented that the Redskins rarely even run routes beyond the first downmarker late in the season. Not even Gibbs was that conservative. -I heard that in one game the 49ers -Zorn wouldn't take plays out if he thought his qb had a handle on the playbook(pretty basic logic) -Portis was going off the first half of the season not Campbell, and the rush was opening up the run (might be the reason Campbell wasn't blitzed as frequently) I would like to see the game to game break down of blitzes. Also, Z has commented that he didnt even have his playbook finished by the start of the year. Are you saying Campbell should have learned a playbook that didnt even exist? -Why is it relevant if the playbook is done if it has to be shrunken anyway? And I doubt this meant he handed Campbell a playbook the night before the G-men game and said good luck, Campbell worked on an offense this offseason there is no debating that. People also forget that NE lost 2-3 starters last year for extended periods to injury on that OL. Would Brady have done better? perhaps, but their line missing starters is still better than ours at 100% -Was it 2 or 3? and I don't recall them losing half their own line for an extended period of time if you have a link I am curious as to what games and how many times Cassell was sacked during these games. -And comparing 12 to 43 should show you that alot more than the o-line is responsible for the way the pass protection is perceived by the audience. This is flat out false. Campbell is not bad against the blitzLets do a breakdown of QBs in the division under the blitz Romo sits to pee 96 completions out of 164 attempts for 58%. 1335 yards, 6TDs, 6INTs, 59 first downs, 8 sacks McNabb 108 Completions out of 196 attempts for 55%. 1388 yards, 10tds, 4 ints, 64 1sts and 11 sacks Manning 97 completions out of 191 attempts for 50%. 1188 yards, 4 TDs, 6 ints, 64 1sts and 15 sacks. Campbell 106 out of 176 for 60%. 1188 yards, 4 TDs, 4ints, 64 1sts, 13 sacks. Hes at least as good as everyone in the division outside of McNabb. And Considering Romo sits to pee and McNabb both missed at least a half of football and both have more attempts against blitzes doesnt that mean teams blitzed Campbell less than other qbs at least as far as the NFCE goes? Teams didnt have to blitz especially when Samuels's knee wore down. You cant put TEs over both the Tackles to help and expect an offense to do anything. Teams got pressure and early sacks with 5,4, and even 3 rushers. -I would love it when you called me flat out wrong if you would please post a link to your facts... and also a game by game breakdown would be appreciated because based on my theory teams started blitzing more later in the season and this is what caused the offensive breakdown -As I have said above they may not have blitzed as much during the being of the season because Portis was going wild -Sometime the run sets up the pass, sometimes the pass sets up the run... when its obvious a team can't pass you dare them too... that what happened to Campbell down the stretch of last season their is visual evidence if you take the time to watch the games. Yeah, that was great, but what was different back then? Let me suggest we look at the line.28 year old Samuels 25 year old Dock 28 year old Rabach 29 year old Thomas before 2 season ending injuries, one to the lower body 28 year old Jansen again with some serious season enders Also, Santana had a 1000 yard season, not a great example of showing that Campbell cant use his weapons. No, the real difference between this team and that team is RZ offense. In 2005-2006 Sellers had 7 receiving TDs all RZ TDs. People give Gibbs crap for being old school, fact is, that brutal old school offense worked, especially in the RZ. It wasnt great, but it scored more than we have in the years following. What do we do now with Sellers? Let him swan dive? We only threw to him 2-3 times in the RZ. One was a TD, one bounced off his hands (maybe it was Campbell throwing too hard, I put that one on big mike). Theres the offensive woes, its all RZ. Check my sig. -There is a big difference of a top 5 WR(Santana's #'s in 05), who almost single handedly won a monday night game and a receiver(Tana in 08) who some don't think is a #1 WR due to this numbers. -Yes our RZ has been inefficient, I don't know why we don't go to Sellers more, he was successful in 05. -But why are we so frequently finding ourselves in drives that end in the redzone? Why don't we have the big play ability to go from the 40 to pay dirt to skip the RZ all together? Because we don't have a big play qb, plain and simple. He was tied for worst in TD's this year, maybe that isn't all his fault but if you think RZ are our worries and think Campbell is acceptable with his 12 TD's you are being quite contradictory. this is contrary to his coaches saying hes going too fast through his reads? And if there are 4 routes that all are run short of the 1st down marker who is that on?. -How do you know their are 4 routes being run short of the marker? I mean is this serious? Is there any football logic behind this statement? Maybe his checkdown or 2 maybe even 3 don't go beyond the marker, but if you think on 3rd and long Zorn is calling a play(other than a screen) where no receiver runs past the 1st down marker you must be out of your mind, it defies all football logic (unless maybe 3rd and 20 and a draw would be a better decision). p=6246718&postcount=101 and this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Totally disagree. I can remember JC being booed off the field at least twice his junior year at Auburn and benched at least once. It only made him work harder and win 13 games his senior year and SEC MVP. I'm telling you, JC is a lot tougher mentally than some people give him credit to be. Fan criticism really doesn't get to JC. "Campbell brushes aside the criticism. "People are really getting absurd with the stuff they're saying right now," Campbell said. "I'm the quarterback of this team, and I work hard to prepare myself and be a leader. You can't tell anything about how much someone cares about their job, about what's going on, from watching them on TV on the sideline." He wouldn't have done jack or **** without his two running backs at Auburn. Campbell has worked extensively on strengthening his psyche. He took a long break from football following a season-ending 27-24 loss to San Francisco on Dec. 28, which completed the Redskins' 2-6 second-half collapse after a 6-2 start. Campbell was among the main targets of frustrated fans, who questioned his intelligence and leadership skills on Internet message boards and sports-talk radio. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/16/AR2009031603327.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[S.S.F. | Nero] Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I did get more out of your post than that, sure. And I agree that a portion of the offenses problems can be attributed to the offensive line. But I also think that if the team had a better QB, one that made quick decisions and could read the entire field, that the line's deficiencies would be greatly mitigated. I'm not so sure about this one. What can other quarterbacks do between the time the ball is snapped and when they reach the end of their dropback that Jason cannot? He was getting hit and hurried before he could even read the field....how do you know he isn't reading whatever he can read in the 1.5 - 3 seconds he has before getting hit? This is due to bad OL play, and I'll say it because nobody else will, it was Jon Fricking Jansen !!!!! Then after, Samuels went down and we had Heyer, Jansen on the ends....fughettaboutit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhodus333 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 That seems to be the big "if" about Campbell. "If" everything around him is perfect, he's a good QB. If the RB is healthy and strong, the line is perfect, everyone gets blocking assignments and runs perfect routes, etcetera and so on. Then he can be good. So can every other QB going all the way down to the High School and Little League ranks, though. Hit the nail on the head. Like i said before, the QB is the guy you want to have the ball when things DONT go according to plan. someone who can think on his feet and adjust to make something out of nothing. Do you all really see that out of Campbell? Honestly, i don't........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpack3r Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 ;6248513']What did the QB do to lose games for us? Thats the point, he didnt do anything. Jason Campbell put up 10 points a game, that is why we lost more games then we shouldve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Campbell has worked extensively on strengthening his psyche. He took a long break from football following a season-ending 27-24 loss to San Francisco on Dec. 28, which completed the Redskins' 2-6 second-half collapse after a 6-2 start. Campbell was among the main targets of frustrated fans, who questioned his intelligence and leadership skills on Internet message boards and sports-talk radio. I thought he was going through some Pilates exercises. Perhaps he thought it was a solution to throwing bad passes after being constantly hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 He wouldn't have done jack or **** without his two running backs at Auburn. He did have a great backfield but neither Williams nor Brown won the MVP. Jason won it because VT had both running backs shut down in the bowl game and Jason beat them thru the air. Any VT fan can tell you this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 ;6249233']I'm not so sure about this one. What can other quarterbacks do between the time the ball is snapped and when they reach the end of their dropback that Jason cannot? One of the biggest knocks on Campbell coming out of college is that he hangs on to the ball too long. It's still his biggest problem area, though some would argue that his biggest problem is locking onto his primary receiver. If you go back and watch the Bengals game, Campbell had all day to throw and he still consistently got himself into trouble by holding the ball too long. Watch Romo sits to pee, Cutler, and other good QB's and you will see that they get rid of the ball fast. Campbell simply doesn't do that, at least on a consistent basis. Like I said before, a good QB would help mitigate our offenses deficiencies. Agreed that the O line needs help, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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