DCMONEY Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 -Sorry I don't blame Santana Moss... what was it we traded for him again? ohh ya Lav Coles-Sorry I don't blame Portis a top 10 rb since he's been in the league -Sorry I don't blame Cooley what was he a 3rd rounder? -Sorry I don't blame the rookies, it doesn't seem fair they get hate after 1 season but Campbell gets 4 and his poor play is still excused. -The line is the line but its not like we gave up alot to get anyone on the line, and they receive too much blame in my opinion.. -Fact of the matter is JC cost us A LOT and we haven't gotten A LOT from him at all, so yes there is going to be disappointment. -And I think you will be hard pressed to find a skins fan who doesn't support Campbell, they don't have faith in Campbell very big difference, and at least there opinion is based on history (fact) not the future(your own opinion). Paying a alot for Campbell and not putting him in a situation conducive for winning isn't good management. I don't understand your logic. So if a team gives up a lot for a QB, have him play in several different systems in the 1st few years of his career, then have him play behind an aging banged up line, he's still should produce? I'e been witing for a long time for someone to name a QB thats produced under that scenario. Thats not a good formula for success. Now if you're like some on this forum and you don't feel that the O-line play in the last 8 games was that bad then I don't know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Paying a alot for Campbell and not putting him in a situation conducive for winning isn't good management. I don't understand your logic. So if a team gives up a lot for a QB, have him play in several different systems in the 1st few years of his career, then have him play behind an aging banged up line, he's still should produce? I'e been witing for a long time for someone to name a QB thats produced under that scenario. Thats not a good formula for success. Now if you're like some on this forum and you don't feel that the O-line play in the last 8 games was that bad then I don't know what to say. -What exactly does Campbell need to win? He's got a top 5 rb, and defense, a deep threat, a top 5 TE, and a line that is more than adequate (look at NE's stats the past two seasons for proof of how a qb's play determines how an o-line looks). Why were Portis' numbers down to you ask? Probably because he was our only threat and teams put 8 to 9 in the box... daring us to throw... and putting Campbell under pressure... what happened? Our offense hit a brick wall. -I don't buy this several systems garbage... a route is a route, football is football, a slant is still a slant a fade is still a fade (I would love to see him complete one of these... oh ya thats right he can't because he is unaware of how to put touch on the ball). How come Matt Ryan, Big ben and so on can just come in and learn there systems so quickly, yet Campbell can't learn any system. Obviously you will excel with more time in a system, but Campbell has spent time in systems and his problems in all systems remain the same, he's inaccurate, holds onto the ball too long, no pocket presence and he runs out of bounds when scrambling out of the pocket(Is that ****ing serious?, how dumb do you have to be? to not know to just throw the ball at the ****ing stands). It doesn't matter the system its still the same old Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 -What exactly does Campbell need to win? He's got a top 5 rb, and defense, a deep threat, a top 5 TE, and a line that is more than adequate (look at NE's stats the past two seasons for proof of how a qb's play determines how an o-line looks). Why were Portis' numbers down to you ask? Probably because he was our only threat and teams put 8 to 9 in the box... daring us to throw... and putting Campbell under pressure... what happened? Our offense hit a brick wall. You pick and choose stats. The defense is 4th in stopping the run and the pass but bottom of the league in creating turnovers/opportunities for the Redskins not to start at their own 20 every drive. Someone posted figures a few weeks ago on the drives that broke down around the opponents 40 yd. line in the second half of the season. A clear indication of the age and injury to the o-line having to go the entire length of the field on most drives. The o-line is good in run blocking but ranked bottom of the league in pass protection. I stumbled across an interview today by an NFL reporter done with Portis at the SuperBowl. Here's Portis' take on what happened in the 2nd half of the season. Tom Curran "One month ago, I spent a few minutes talking to Clinton Portis at the Super Bowl. What went wrong, I asked, with a team that was 6-2 and finished 8-8? What happened with Jason Campbell, the Redskins quarterback who didn't throw a pick until week nine? Protection for Campbell and open holes in the running game, was the reply. It was that simple" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Mahons 21- I agree with your comments. The missing link is good performance out of our quarterback position. When you see rookie quarterbacks on other teams come in and perform well it has to make people wonder what is up with J.C.? Also, I think former quarterbacks who have been successful in the NFL like Jurgensen or Bradshaw know what they are talking about when they evaluate JC's capabilities or question his decision-making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantula Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 True, his opinions are his opinions, but an observation from an expert is regarded with greater consideration than a person that stayed at the local Residence Inn. He's an expert at what, playing QB?? Well that's fine a dandy, but playing the position doesn't mean you're an expert at measuring another QB's talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trap Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 JC proved he could play the first half of the season Vinny needs to get him a LITTLE protection so he can look down field instead of running for his life . even the average football fan understands it all starts up front, well maybe not vinny but jc can play just give the guy alittle time in the pocket DAMN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 those two are a sideshow..Howie blames us Skins fans for Ford Motor dumping his "Tough Guy" promo with F-150..after he refused to name Pat Ramsey who was the top vote getter..and the complaints that followed got him axed Howie said last night that he likes for the Skins to do well. He does live in the area, in Charlottesville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I don't know,, sounds like Terry reeled off some comments that didn't really give any further insight, or shine any light on where we are. I don't mean to rain on the parade, and I'm sure it was a really cool thing to attend, so i hope my comments aren't construed as just being nitpicky. I'd be surprised if Vick is reinstated, and I'd be further surprised if that many teams felt the risk was worth the chance. He's been out of football for 3 years,, no trainers, no practice, nothing. He had a lot of talent, but I don't know that anyone can drop it and pick it back up like that. ~Bang I don't construe your comments as nitpicky at all and you are right, Terry's comments didn't shine any new light on where the Skins are as a team. I just found it interesting that when asked about the Skins the 1st thing a Hall of Fame QB states is that he is concerned about the team's starting QB. I think Vick will be reinstated once he serves his time, but I don't think the Commissioner will be in any rush to reinstate him. I am surprised by Howie's comment that 12-14 teams would be interested in Vick. I was thinking 2-4, tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawaiianTime Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 He's an expert at what, playing QB?? Well that's fine a dandy, but playing the position doesn't mean you're an expert at measuring another QB's talents. Funny how when a 4 time SB winner, 2 time SB MVP, former NFL QB, now analyst's opinion is less than a none SB, former NFL QB, now analyst Ron Jaworski, or a none SB, former NFL QB, first time OC/HC Jim Zorn. Let's see, does it help that Terry is a Hall of Famer?? Probably not because you selectively chose who is an expert and who isn't. Well, in the real world, I think Terry has more credentials than Ron or Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 You pick and choose stats. The defense is 4th in stopping the run and the pass but bottom of the league in creating turnovers/opportunities for the Redskins not to start at their own 20 every drive. Someone posted figures a few weeks ago on the drives that broke down around the opponents 40 yd. line in the second half of the season. A clear indication of the age and injury to the o-line having to go the entire length of the field on most drives.The o-line is good in run blocking but ranked bottom of the league in pass protection. I stumbled across an interview today by an NFL reporter done with Portis at the SuperBowl. Here's Portis' take on what happened in the 2nd half of the season. Tom Curran "One month ago, I spent a few minutes talking to Clinton Portis at the Super Bowl. What went wrong, I asked, with a team that was 6-2 and finished 8-8? What happened with Jason Campbell, the Redskins quarterback who didn't throw a pick until week nine? Protection for Campbell and open holes in the running game, was the reply. It was that simple" -I don't try to pick and choose stats, I defense was top 5 ranked by points per game, a pretty accurate indicator of defenses. No they don't get turnovers but they don't allow points, are we seriously to the point we blame our D, because of offensive inefficiencies. -What Portis' said is in agreement with my take on the situation. Teams stacked the box and blitzed heavily, this takes away both the run game/forces qb to make quick decisions and Campbell didn't do well. There are no holes, and protection becomes slack unless you call for extra protection TE's etc, but when we had to do this Campbell apologists claim there isn't enough people running routes. -You also completely neglect many other valid points I made and act as if they don't exist, i.e. how a qb's play can make an o-line look bad, or about how teams stacked the box against us visually. There was a link for a Moss interview and his take on the situation(offensive inabilities), it began teams started blitzing a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 JC is on the hot seat. And unfortunately his ability to pick things up is not as fast as he "needs" them to be right now. I think he can be good. But it won't happen in the burgundy and gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSunday Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I could have won 4 Super Bowls if I had the players Bradshaw had around him With that D .............he should have won more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 -What exactly does Campbell need to win? He's got a top 5 rb, and defense, a deep threat, a top 5 TE, and a line that is more than adequate (look at NE's stats the past two seasons for proof of how a qb's play determines how an o-line looks). Why were Portis' numbers down to you ask? Probably because he was our only threat and teams put 8 to 9 in the box... daring us to throw... and putting Campbell under pressure... what happened? Our offense hit a brick wall.-I don't buy this several systems garbage... a route is a route, football is football, a slant is still a slant a fade is still a fade (I would love to see him complete one of these... oh ya thats right he can't because he is unaware of how to put touch on the ball). How come Matt Ryan, Big ben and so on can just come in and learn there systems so quickly, yet Campbell can't learn any system. Obviously you will excel with more time in a system, but Campbell has spent time in systems and his problems in all systems remain the same, he's inaccurate, holds onto the ball too long, no pocket presence and he runs out of bounds when scrambling out of the pocket(Is that ****ing serious?, how dumb do you have to be? to not know to just throw the ball at the ****ing stands). It doesn't matter the system its still the same old Campbell Ist off IMO Campell did perform this season. His #'s as I've stated before are on par or better than some of the playoff QB's this past season. And for you to say what you're saying in regards for a QB switching systems. The Qb position is the most important postion to me. How can you sit up and say that switching systems every year doesn't matter? I'm questioning your knowledge og the game. You just wrote a slant is a slant and a fade is a fade. Let me school you to something, they don't just walk up to the line and say man run a fade or slant etc. There's a lot of terminology, formations etc that go into every Off coordinators system. Some offenses are timing based. Some offensive lines use zone blocking. Every offense isn't the same. So Campbell in his 1st year in this offense had a 84.3 rating and completed over 60% of his passes is in accurate huh? Kerry Collins for instance made the playoffs had a 80.3 rating and 58% completion %. He was only sacked 8 times and. He only threw for 2600 yds Why wasn't the Titans able to throw the ball? Obviously the Titans won despite a lack of production from him. He(Collins) gets a lot of credit for the turn around of the Titans. He didn't do Jack stat wise. People don't look at the total situation as to why a team is having success or having a lack of success. The bottom line is when I came to the conclusion of the Skins season, the most glaring thing that came to mind to me was trench play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It seems to me that this organization has lost faith in JC, though Colt shows promise he is at best en extremely rough prospect. JC is the best option that we have BUT that does not make him a good qb just our best option...Who knows what will happen but it looks like if this kid does not only have a lights out year butprove that he is gonna be an elite qb for years to come.....he's gone. This is a team thaat thinks it can win now NOTHING going forward will shock me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ist off IMO Campell did perform this season. His #'s as I've stated before are on par or better than some of the playoff QB's this past season. And for you to say what you're saying in regards for a QB switching systems. The Qb position is the most important postion to me. How can you sit up and say that switching systems every year doesn't matter? I'm questioning your knowledge og the game. You just wrote a slant is a slant and a fade is a fade. Let me school you to something, they don't just walk up to the line and say man run a fade or slant etc. There's a lot of terminology, formations etc that go into every Off coordinators system. Some offenses are timing based. Some offensive lines use zone blocking. Every offense isn't the same. So Campbell in his 1st year in this offense had a 84.3 rating and completed over 60% of his passes is in accurate huh? Kerry Collins for instance made the playoffs had a 80.3 rating and 58% completion %. He was only sacked 8 times and. He only threw for 2600 yds Why wasn't the Titans able to throw the ball? Obviously the Titans won despite a lack of production from him. He(Collins) gets a lot of credit for the turn around of the Titans. He didn't do Jack stat wise. People don't look at the total situation as to why a team is having success or having a lack of success. The bottom line is when I came to the conclusion of the Skins season, the most glaring thing that came to mind to me was trench play. -It was not his first year in a WCO, ya the terminology is different but that really shouldn't affect the qb alone that much. Formation? Seriously? -Look at what happened to the Titans in the playoffs, you need a franchise qb. -Stats aren't always the story look at Ben Roethlisberger. -A fade is a fade a slant is a slant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 -It was not his first year in a WCO, ya the terminology is different but that really shouldn't affect the qb alone that much. Formation? Seriously? -Look at what happened to the Titans in the playoffs, you need a franchise qb. -Stats aren't always the story look at Ben Roethlisberger. -A fade is a fade a slant is a slant. :doh::doh: Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ohhh, Titans choked because they fumbled the ball away too many times when in scoring position and lost Chris Johnson, who was torching the Ravens D. As if that wasn't obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyBoy Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think Bradshaw is biased. He really likes Colt. So does S. Juergensen and J.Madden It's all some contrived conspiracy!!! Don't you guys realize that none of these 3 have any real football prowess? :doh: [ Me too ,Sonny is great but he has loved every Skins QB till the team doesn't win then he moves on,and Sonny has always loved the back up....no matter who it is. There's a reason for this. With the exception of a select 1 or 2 since Joey T, our starting QB's have sucked donkey stones. Why on earth WOULDN'T you be pulling for the backup to get a chance when what you're seeing in the starting lineup isn't getting the job done? It don't matter what JC do are Colt does you fair weather fans will only support anybody for a short time. This is the city that hates QB. JC has played 4 years in 4 different offenses with a not so good line but all you blame is the qb. Some of you are real haters. Hater in the house! Good grief would you please stop with the "this is the city that hates QB's" b.s. Clearly you have no idea what's happening in most NFL cities across the country..........and make it seem discussions such as this happen much more frequently here. Visit Philly one of these days and let me know what's happening there. Go to Minnesota, or Buffalo, or visit Jets country. How about Carolina or Oakland. I could continue, but honestly it isn't worth the extra typing. Your claim is baseless. We'll support a QB long-term when we land one who deserves and earns long term support, and not a second sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktfirehouse Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 If JC was that good why not open up the competition to squash any controversy? That would take a lot of heat off of not only JC but Zorn as well if JC gets off to a rocky start this season. exactly....now i was the same guy calling for JC when Brunell was struggling but i haven't been impressed with nothing he does other than pick up first downs by running. But it seems to me as though the redskins got tired of shuffling QB's and just decided to stick with a QB and develop him no matter how much regression they showed (not saying JC has regressed, just saying if he would have i dont think the skins would have even made a change). If it was just another QB we wanted to see then MAYBE it would be another case of skins fans overacting, but when you have all of these greats (Bradshaw, Howie, Madden, Troy, etc.) saying there is something they like about CB, you don't even take a closer look as the FO??? If you can say that JC is going to be the starter next season after going only 8-8 and the offense only putting up 16.6 ppg, am i suppose to believe that no one on our roster can do better? Especially seeing how Collins stepped in strong last year and the promise that CB show. POINT BLANK, if JC is the best pick as our starter, fine, no problem...then why not have an open competition since he is soooo much more "gifted" then the others we have....he would obviously win the comp right? and there will be no more "Start CB threads, New Offense crap, 1st full year under coach, he had the chicken pox" or whatever other excuse they use. I tired of hearing excuses when the excuse is owned by a player on another team in the same situation (new offense - matt ryan.....new coach - falcons, weak o-line - STEERLERS):doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 :doh::doh: Nevermind -Sorry just didn't really want to have to get into this again... but here it goes -Campbell success this season, you site his increased accuracy and passer rating, both can be attributed to the amount of times he checked the ball down. -The whole systems complaint I don't really by because many other first round qb's have caught onto their systems in their first season, and Campbell has run a WCO before don't forget. -Formation, Terminology, etc... does change thats why you have an offseason, thats why you study the playbook, you are paid millions of dollars to do so, if other qb's can get it done that much faster it leads me to believe Jason won't ever get it done. -His line, no it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't half as bad as majority of Campbell excusers believe it was.... Line's can be made to look bad by the qb as I have stated, NE gave up like 12 sacks with Brady but Cassell lead the league in sacks last year... think that was because the line got so much worst? Or Cassell dealt with pressure much worst, and teams know what to do when a qb can't deal with the pressure... Keep on bringing it. -What happened with Campbell? Teams saw he did horrible against the pressure so they brought it, doing so also helped stuff the run, but allowed for the occasional run to be busted, if you get by the blitz. -The receivers weren't great but qb's have done a lot more with worst receiving cores, Moss was a top 5 WR but 3 years ago with Brunell and I bet you don't even remember who his #2 at the time was. -Yet Campbells problems still remain, its not as if he's calling the wrong play(which might be due to new playbook) or as if teams are rushing 4 and dropping into coverage and successfully pressuring him(the false belief many people here believe). He's throwing a 90 mph fastball to receivers and not in stride, he's throwing 10 feet above their head, he doesn't throw to open spaces he throws to open receivers(can't do this against an NFL zone defense, may be man). He doesn't go through his reads quickly and frequently checks down, to recievers in front of the first down marker. These problems all remain constant no matter the system, no matter the coach, no matter the line, that is Jason Campbell in a nutshell, he was a 1st round reach and we failed. Its not secret he played on one of the best teams in College Football and thats probably why he had success... both his rb's were drafted top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I thought that was Billy Dee Williams. Hahaha! Billy Dee! He was actually a good friend of my mom's back in the day. (Hopefully they weren't drinking Colt 45 together....) But I haven't seen the guy since like '96, when he was fresh off the battery charge. One minute he slurpin' down the malt, next minute he's arrested for assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkqb17 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Terry Bradshaw is the same one that said Zorn and Campbell were a good marriage. Alot of people on here blamed Jason Campbell for the 2-6 finish, but it was the O-line wearing down and the WR drops is what killed us. Gone back and watch the Raven, Beangals, and 49ers games for the proof . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The 2-6 decline, was the teams fault, not Campbell's not the o-line, not the receivers, not the Defenses but the teams. And what happens when a team does bad? You have to analyze the leaders, coaches, qb's etc.. However our defense came out ranked quite well at the end of the season, so we are forced to put our offense in question.. so both Zorn and Campbell are on the hot seat. -The offense is in question... and its quite notable... so who should step up? The leader of the offense, he was given week upon week to step up to the plate and ensure a Redskins playoff birth, yet he didn't step up, didn't step up at all. And no Portis isn't the leader though he may be the hot shot, the qb is the leader of the offense. Campbell isn't a leader, he may one day succeed again if he has pro-bowl team surrounding him, but until then he will remain a sub-par qb, not the franchise qb the skins so desperately need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 This will be make or break for JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Terry Bradshaw is the same one that said Zorn and Campbell were a good marriage. Alot of people on here blamed Jason Campbell for the 2-6 finish, but it was the O-line wearing down and the WR drops is what killed us. Gone back and watch the Raven, Beangals, and 49ers games for the proof . I always thought S. Moss would be our next Gary Clark, but what it seems is he is more worried about looking smooth then playing with fire. Clark played with Passion. Moss plays for a paycheck and to have some fun when he wants. Those are harsh words I know, but in my opinion, that is what I observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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