Terry Bradshaw's comments on the Skins and JC

[eljeasel]

-Down 2 YPA is a huge difference, and shows that he was checking down far more the second half of the season...

First, thanks for responding to my post. I appreciate you reading what I posted, It was alot!

Yes down 2 YPA is a huge difference but you dont seem to acknowledge my point. You said his higher stats were due to checking down. If his higher stats occurred in games with higher YPA that directly goes against that notion. I dont think how you can look at the better %, TD/INT, Rating numbers occuring in the first part of the season with the games with higher YPA and say "its because he was checking down." The reliance on the checkdown came in the 2nd half the season, evidenced by the lower YPA and you see a drop in passer rating, %, TDs/INT.

-I heard that in one game the 49ers

What? What did you hear in the 9ers game?

-Zorn wouldn't take plays out if he thought his qb had a handle on the playbook(pretty basic logic)

Perhaps he took out those plays for other reasons? Example: How many reverses were called in the first half the season? How many in the 2nd half? It defies logic, but thats why teams like the Ravens expressed astonishment at how simple and predictable the Redskins offense had become.

-Portis was going off the first half of the season not Campbell, and the rush was opening up the run (might be the reason Campbell wasn't blitzed as frequently) I would like to see the game to game break down of blitzes.

Of course Portis was going off in the first game but didnt hit a 100 yard game until the 4th game of the season. That isnt to say he wasnt effective. He remained a RZ rushing threat and a source of points. Im not sure how the rush would open up the run if thats what you meant.

Im not sure how Portis's play indicates Campbell didnt play well. Early in the season Z used the pass early to get downfield along with the run. In the 2nd half he used the Run to eat clock and choke teams to death.

Dallas

1st Half CP Rushing Yards 46; JC Passing Yards 178

2nd Half CP Rushing Yards 65; JC Passing Yards 52

Philly

1st Half CP Rushing Yards 43; JC Passing Yards

2nd Half CP Rushing Yards 102; JC Passing Yards

Hey Ill tell you what, Im going to finish this breakdown later if you want it. It might be total bunk, but the same is going to hold true for the Detroit win and the Rams game, maybe even the CLE and SEA games too. I have to manually compile that stat from play by plays and its time consuming (and I got rock band to play)

-Why is it relevant if the playbook is done if it has to be shrunken anyway? And I doubt this meant he handed Campbell a playbook the night before the G-men game and said good luck, Campbell worked on an offense this offseason there is no debating that.

The playbook didnt have to be shrunk. Thats your assertion not mine. I say it didnt have to and it was shrunk to the offense's detriment.

Its relevant because they had less of it work with in the offseason. If 10%, 20%, 40%? of the playbook wasnt in existence until the season started, how could you have any grasp of anything besides the fundamentals of the plays rather than the nitty gritty affinity needed for a precision offense?

-Was it 2 or 3? and I don't recall them losing half their own line for an extended period of time if you have a link I am curious as to what games and how many times Cassell was sacked during these games.

The actually had some pretty intresting injuries. You can look that up yourself on any sporting website. Id like to see that breakdown too. Light was hurt, didnt miss any time along with LeVoir and their Center (name slips my mind). Kaczur (their tackle) missed 2-3 games. Sorry Im not being more specific, I dont follow the Pats much.

-And comparing 12 to 43 should show you that alot more than the o-line is responsible for the way the pass protection is perceived by the audience.

Sure, but are you saying our pass pro is sufficient? Our pass pro got better when we lost the starting tackles. When Samuels and Jansen couldnt move laterally they got beat, consistently. You can only max protect so much. Heyer at that point was an improvement over Big Chris in pass pro. Lets just hope Samuels's knee doesnt act up this year.

-I would love it when you called me flat out wrong if you would please post a link to your facts... and also a game by game breakdown would be appreciated because based on my theory teams started blitzing more later in the season and this is what caused the offensive breakdown

Ouch. Dont believe me? Most of my stats come off either Yahoo or SI. SI has a stat for QBs that is indicated while being blitzed. Pulled the numbers straight from that. A game by game breakdown? Go for it.

-As I have said above they may not have blitzed as much during the being of the season because Portis was going wild

Prove it. Id like to see that breakdown.

-Sometime the run sets up the pass, sometimes the pass sets up the run... when its obvious a team can't pass you dare them too... that what happened to Campbell down the stretch of last season their is visual evidence if you take the time to watch the games.

Hey, Im not going to tell you Campbell lit it up in the 2nd half of the season. But I assert its because of too much pressure from a 3-5 man rush. Yeah, he was bad in the Bengals game, and the first half of the SF game but otherwise I dont really put those losses on him.

-There is a big difference of a top 5 WR(Santana's #'s in 05), who almost single handedly won a monday night game and a receiver(Tana in 08) who some don't think is a #1 WR due to this numbers.

I dont know what up with Santana. Sometimes hes super sharp, and fights his guts out. Sometimes you see him dropping gimmes and quitting on plays/games

-Yes our RZ has been inefficient, I don't know why we don't go to Sellers more, he was successful in 05.

-But why are we so frequently finding ourselves in drives that end in the redzone? Why don't we have the big play ability to go from the 40 to pay dirt to skip the RZ all together? Because we don't have a big play qb, plain and simple. He was tied for worst in TD's this year, maybe that isn't all his fault but if you think RZ are our worries and think Campbell is acceptable with his 12 TD's you are being quite contradictory.

I do put some on Campbell. But we have the same problems under Saunders with Campbell, Saunders with Collins, Saunders with Brunell, Gibbs with Brunell (though it was better).

I just dont think you can bring anyone short of Favre and expect good RZ numbers. Eli is a good RZ qb, or so I thought until Plexico wasnt in the picture. In the games without Plex he had 3 TDs (2 RZ TDs) and 3 INTs in 5 games. Before that he had thrown 18 TDS and 7 INTs in 11 games. His RZ stats for the year at 17TDs to 2 INTs. Wow. Thats great. Thats a pretty huge change and I would have to say Plex was their safety net in the RZ.

Lets Recap With Plex (10 games, misses one with injury)

ELI - 18 TDs 7 INTs

Giants - 56 RZ attempts with 29 TDs, 16 are RZ passing TDs

Without Plex (5 games)

Eli - 3 TDs, 3INTs (2 RZ TDs)

Gints - 13 RZ attempts with 6 RZ TDs, 2 are RZ TDs

Of course you have to recognize the general drop in RZ attempts that corresponds with the loss of Plex. But you have to acknowledge that the Eli score most of his TDs in the RZ, 17 of 21. And struggles to score in the RZ without Plax to go get up on the ladder and outjump a receiver or draw a double team. Now of course its not all Plax, he only scored 4 TDs, 3 of them RZ TDs, but 3 more RZ TDs for this team could mean the difference in a game like 2nd Dallas game, the Rams game, the Bengals, or the SF game. 2 more scores makes this team 10-6 and in the playoffs. Who knows what having a 2nd RZ threat other than Cooley would do for the RZ woes that plague this team

Hes one of the top in the league at getting that fade which we cannot run until one of the 3 new passcatchers gets in the game.

-How do you know their are 4 routes being run short of the marker? I mean is this serious? Is there any football logic behind this statement? Maybe his checkdown or 2 maybe even 3 don't go beyond the marker, but if you think on 3rd and long Zorn is calling a play(other than a screen) where no receiver runs past the 1st down marker you must be out of your mind, it defies all football logic (unless maybe 3rd and 20 and a draw would be a better decision).

I agree. It doesnt make sense. Doesnt mean Z didnt call multiple plays that had 1 or 0 routes going beyond the marker. The 2nd philly game is full of it. It could just be bad route running. Or Campbell changed everyone's routes at the line or something silly like that. But it happened more than it should have.

[DCMONEY]

-Sorry just didn't really want to have to get into this again... but here it goes

-Campbell success this season, you site his increased accuracy and passer rating, both can be attributed to the amount of times he checked the ball down.

<<As I stated before Campbell played well IMO despite everything that I feel is wrong with this team. Mainly the offensive line.>>

-The whole systems complaint I don't really by because many other first round qb's have caught onto their systems in their first season, and Campbell has run a WCO before don't forget.

<<Campbell has caught on to this offense IMO. Now in the 2nd half as I'e stated before I think the offensive line was horrible. Its why his play and Portis's slipped.>>

-Formation, Terminology, etc... does change thats why you have an offseason, thats why you study the playbook, you are paid millions of dollars to do so, if other qb's can get it done that much faster it leads me to believe Jason won't ever get it done.

<<Like I've stated above. Campbell played well in this offense alll things considered.>>

-His line, no it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't half as bad as majority of Campbell excusers believe it was.... Line's can be made to look bad by the qb as I have stated, NE gave up like 12 sacks with Brady but Cassell lead the league in sacks last year... think that was because the line got so much worst? Or Cassell dealt with pressure much worst, and teams know what to do when a qb can't deal with the pressure... Keep on bringing it.

<<Man you've got to be kidding. The offensive line in the last 8 games was awful. It totally stunk period. I guess we'll agree to disagree with the line. I think the Skins O-line was terrible. I can reverse your logic and say Kerry Collins was sacked 8 times but his #'s weren't on par with Campbell's. Ask Titans fans and they give him a lot of credit for getting them almost to the Superbowl.>>

-What happened with Campbell? Teams saw he did horrible against the pressure so they brought it, doing so also helped stuff the run, but allowed for the occasional run to be busted, if you get by the blitz.

<<Thats str8 bull. Teams bought pressure because the O-line stunk. You and others saying teams walked a safety up to the line so that why Portis failed. Portis failed because the O-line stunk in 2nd half. If walking a safety up works then why do teams like the Titans and Vikings still run the ball despite teams walking up their safties. Now the Titans and Vikins are teams that didn't have good production from the QB position and teams walked up their safties as a result. What was the difference? Both these teams had strong O-lines and ran the ball anyhow. Portis couldn't run because this O-line stunk, not because teams walked up a safety. Also walking a safety up has an advantage and disadvantage, If the RB hits the next level, thats it. its not always advantageous to walk your safety all the wy up.>>

-The receivers weren't great but qb's have done a lot more with worst receiving cores, Moss was a top 5 WR but 3 years ago with Brunell and I bet you don't even remember who his #2 at the time was.

<<Man the Skins WR core is overrated PERIOD. Their paid well but their avergage at best. Randel El isn't a #2 WR. Jason had some bad throws and the WT's had drops too. Some of them ran wrong routes. According to the coaches the 2 rookies and TE didn't even know enough to get on the field. >>

-Yet Campbells problems still remain, its not as if he's calling the wrong play(which might be due to new playbook) or as if teams are rushing 4 and dropping into coverage and successfully pressuring him(the false belief many people here believe). He's throwing a 90 mph fastball to receivers and not in stride, he's throwing 10 feet above their head, he doesn't throw to open spaces he throws to open receivers(can't do this against an NFL zone defense, may be man). He doesn't go through his reads quickly and frequently checks down, to recievers in front of the first down marker. These problems all remain constant no matter the system, no matter the coach, no matter the line, that is Jason Campbell in a nutshell, he was a 1st round reach and we failed. Its not secret he played on one of the best teams in College Football and thats probably why he had success... both his rb's were drafted top 5.

<<In order to go through reads and progressions it takes an O-line blocking. You can't go through reads when there's a jail break on the O-line. When for instance you tell Todd Yoder to pick up James Harrison on a blitz, you can't whiff block. Jason wasn't perfect but I've been around football too long to suggest that a QB over come bad line play. No matter how good he is, its not gonna last. Good teams have consistent good lines. The Skins of old proved that. Its why they caould win 3 Cahmpionships with three different RB's and QB's. The 1 constant was that they always had strong trench play. Oh I'll state for the record again I though Jason played well in the 1st year of this offense behind a bad line.>>

[Mooka]

Yes down 2 YPA is a huge difference but you dont seem to acknowledge my point. You said his higher stats were due to checking down. If his higher stats occurred in games with higher YPA that directly goes against that notion. I dont think how you can look at the better %, TD/INT, Rating numbers occuring in the first part of the season with the games with higher YPA and say "its because he was checking down." The reliance on the checkdown came in the 2nd half the season, evidenced by the lower YPA and you see a drop in passer rating, %, TDs/INT.

Hmm... you also said this about Todd Collins:

Where Campbell would force a ball into coverage trying to rely on arm strength or just trying to make something happen when the offense would stall, Collins just hit his checkdown and used his running backs. Dont believe me? Thats fine, just keep in mind something like over 40% of his passes were checkdowns.

You left out that Collins' YPA was 2 yards higher then Campbell's in 2007. (even used that as a point that Collins wasn't much better stating he only threw for 14 more YPG)

What you say here and what you said about Collins vs Campbell in 2007 is inconsistent.

[eljeasel]

Hmm... you also said this about Todd Collins:

You left out that Collins' YPA was 2 yards higher then Campbell's in 2007. (even used that as a point that Collins wasn't much better stating he only threw for 14 more YPG)

What you say here and what you said about Collins vs Campbell in 2007 is inconsistent.

Inconsistent how?

If you force a pass into coverage you get INTs, passes batted down, or the occassional completion. If you hit a checkdown you get maybe nothing, but most likely a few yards. Plus you run less of a risk of turnover.

How is this inconsistent.

Numerically I just dont follow. Lets say you throw 10 passes.

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

3 yard checkdown

3 yard checkdown

3 yard checkdown

3 yard checkdown

Thats 7.2 ypa. Which of course is a team stat but we are using it anways. Those 3 yard checkdowns of course could turn into big yardage play. Compare that to the following

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

10 yard completion

pass defensed

pass defensed

pass defensed

pass defensed

Now youre at a 6.0 ypa plus every pass defensed could be a turnover for points. Add in you arent putting the ball into youre playmakers hands so you dont get the chance at portis breaking a swing pass for 20+ or Moss turning a drag route into a first down.

I dont follow how its a contradiction unless you are saying that the checkdowns accounted for the bulk of Campbell's stats early on, which Im not sure you can do. Hmm. Maybe Yards per completion would better illustrate my point. Let me calculate that up and Ill post those numbers

[Mooka]

Inconsistent how?

If you force a pass into coverage you get INTs, passes batted down, or the occassional completion. If you hit a checkdown you get maybe nothing, but most likely a few yards. Plus you run less of a risk of turnover.

How is this inconsistent.

Well you were using the checkdowns against Collins comparing him to Campbell. Even with checking down all the time Collins had a higher YPA, higher completion %, QB rating and TD/Int ratio.

[skins2victory]

If JC was that good why not open up the competition to squash any controversy? That would take a lot of heat off of not only JC but Zorn as well if JC gets off to a rocky start this season.

lets face reality' date=' there is only one reason that I can see why you wouldn't even think about opening the competition up with a QB of JC's caliber, and that is Danny boy is going to the mats with JC and this is the final season. Why would any one be worried about a 6th rd pick out playing JC? What harm could possibly be done? Well most of us who have watched JC play know what will in all liklyhood happen if JC has to compete for the starting job.[/quote']

Reality is that, no QB could have done good behind that O-Line last year. There was no time to complete throws, which equals bad QB play. JC, Cult, it dosent matter who it is, behind a beat up O-Line you will not make it to a superbowl. Superbowl champions have good O-Lines.

[skins2victory]

Does anyone dissagree with my comment above?? Does anyone dissagree that you must have a good O-Line to get to the superbowl and win it?? Because all of the people complaning about JC need to give it up, unless the O-Line gets fixed the skins will not be superbowl champs, which is the main goal, no matter who the QB is!!!

[eljeasel]

Well you were using the checkdowns against Collins comparing him to Campbell. Even with checking down all the time Collins had a higher YPA, higher completion %, QB rating and TD/Int ratio.

Wouldnt that just show that Collins is better at dinking and dunking? Which kind of goes with his knowledge of the playbook and probably more accurate throws. I was trying to show that Campbell is better when going downfield like earlier in the year.

I think the YPC shows that if I understand it right because checkdowns would lower the YPC but not the YPA?

Campbell 1st half of the year

11.5 ypc

2nd half of the year

9.14 ypc

And that shows just that? That his better stats occured in the half of the year when he (and the team) were playing their best ball and going downfield? If he was checking down more in the first half of the year, wouldnt his ypc be lower like his 2nd half ypc?

Ill admit, I hate stats, but its a finite point that almost needs either rewatching the entire season everyone together looking at play calls and routes run or we could just crunch numbers.

[wtfsauce]

-If Zorn didnt think JC could get it done next year, he would say that Colt was the starter and get colt ready now in this offseason. But the fact is Zorn thinks JC will be the QB to lead this team into the post season next year, and that is why he is the starter.

-The comment that was made about us starting 6-2 and then falling off, is directly related to the comment that we have the oldest O-Line in the league. After the half way point of the season they were tierd and beat up. That is when the team started to play horrible, there was no protection, which means fewer completions. There were also absolutly no holes for portis to run threw, he still was able to put up # because that is what portis does, the # just werent as good as the fisrt part of the season, when the line was fresh and healthy and could make some holes.

I'd be more inclined to say that Zorn in no way would get away with already naming somebody the starter; there was a reason he was brought to DC and he's expected to try to make Campbell our franchise QB. Plus, he needs more than a single year to work with Colt (or someone does) before you can just call the kid a starter less than 2 months after the Super Bowl. You guys are wild.

[wtfsauce]

Why do say say that?? It dosent make any since to me, if he wanted colt to be the starter for the skins some day, practice and experience are the best way to learn. It would be better to make chemistry with the 1st string team as soon as possible. But the fact is he is the 3rd string QB, he dosent even get many reps with the 2nd stringers.

You don't make a 6th round rookie the number 2 when you have a guy that just lead you down a stretch to make the playoffs that's getting paid pretty well for a backup... whether you think the 6th has the potential to be better or not

[wtfsauce]

If JC was that good why not open up the competition to squash any controversy? That would take a lot of heat off of not only JC but Zorn as well if JC gets off to a rocky start this season.

lets face reality' date=' there is only one reason that I can see why you wouldn't even think about opening the competition up with a QB of JC's caliber, and that is Danny boy is going to the mats with JC and this is the final season. Why would any one be worried about a 6th rd pick out playing JC? What harm could possibly be done? Well most of us who have watched JC play know what will in all liklyhood happen if JC has to compete for the starting job.[/quote']

That's throwing your current starter under the bus...

[wtfsauce]

I'd be interested in seeing Colt play against another teams 1's......He didn't play top competition in college and played against 3rd and 4th teamers last year in the preseason. At least when he gets picked or sacked we won't have to hear the "Give Colt a Shot" chants...I can see the headline now "COLT SHOOTS BLANKS"..but hey give the kid a chance to start in the preseason..maybe he will prove me wrong...but I doubt it.

Whereas this is true, he was throwing to players who didn't make a single roster in the league with linemen who weren't even good enough to make ours.

[Mahons21]

-Easel, I asked for a link so I could do further analysis, you later in your post ask me to prove it! Well I will if you could give me a link where I can find these stats, I've googled them nothing comes up, but somehow you have come across them.

-U got defensive which leads me to believe you didn't find this information, and don't have a link... if you do please by all means give it, so I can further analyze my THEORY which may be wrong

-But right now you are calling a lot FACT that may or may not be, and not showing any link for your blitzing #'s, etc... please do so.

-You in your first post say the Pats were missing 2-3 linemen for a significant Portion of the year, then say in your next that Light was hurt but didn't miss time and another guy missed 2 games... this isn't a significant amount of time.(and tell me to go find out the details, well I am not the one who made up the fact, when I do I'll post you a link)

-Then you go on to say I shouldn't make the assertion Zorn shrunk the offense because the players(qb) didn't have a grasp on it... if you don't make this assertion then you are assuming our HC for some unknown reason during the middle of the season decided to take out plays that were working successfully? Which one of these two options is more logical and probable... thats how I came to my assertion... but your that assertion shrinking the playbook hurt the offense is probably spot on you know more than any offensive coordinator or hc on the skins.

[brianm23]

-If Zorn didnt think JC could get it done next year, he would say that Colt was the starter and get colt ready now in this offseason. But the fact is Zorn thinks JC will be the QB to lead this team into the post season next year, and that is why he is the starter.

When a coach names a starting QB the moment he signs a contract to lead the team, you know something is up. To me, it's a clear understanding that he had no choice in who to start at QB. You don't name a starting QB (in a new offensive system) without reviewing the personnel and watching them practice.

[RocketCitySkins]

When a coach names a starting QB the moment he signs a contract to lead the team, you know something is up. To me, it's a clear understanding that he had no choice in who to start at QB. You don't name a starting QB (in a new offensive system) without reviewing the personnel and watching them practice.

Clear to me, too. Zorn knew that Collins was a 9 year vet of Saunders system, not the WCO. And it showed in training camp and pre-season. No doubt he had already watched a ton of tape on Colt or he wouldn't have drafted in as a project in the 6th round. I agree Collins was brilliant in Saunders offense but you don't really think he would have started Collins after his pre-season performance in the WCO. And Colt for sure wasn't ready. I don't see where Zorn had any choice but to start JC, even if he hadn't been brought here to do that very thing.

[brianm23]

Clear to me, too. Zorn knew that Collins was a 9 year vet of Saunders system, not the WCO. And it showed in training camp and pre-season. No doubt he had already watched a ton of tape on Colt or he wouldn't have drafted in as a project in the 6th round. I agree Collins was brilliant in Saunders offense but you don't really think he would have started Collins after his pre-season performance in the WCO. And Colt for sure wasn't ready. I don't see where Zorn had any choice but to start JC, even if he hadn't been brought here to do that very thing.

Yeah. Keep believing that if you like. Doesn't matter what system Collins was a vet in. You don't name starting QBs in a new offensive system without watching the individuals work. Collins could had easily adapted to the system and been better than Campbell and Zorn doesn't know that unless he waits till practice. Him making the starter prior to camp said it all.

[eljeasel]

-Easel, I asked for a link so I could do further analysis, you later in your post ask me to prove it! Well I will if you could give me a link where I can find these stats, I've googled them nothing comes up, but somehow you have come across them.

I thought I said I got the blitzing stats from SI. Go to a QB, theres a tab for passing splits. In there is numbers "while being blitzed" or "under blitz" or something like that

-U got defensive which leads me to believe you didn't find this information, and don't have a link... if you do please by all means give it, so I can further analyze my THEORY which may be wrong

I was joking. I did tell you I used yahoo and SI

-But right now you are calling a lot FACT that may or may not be, and not showing any link for your blitzing #'s, etc... please do so.

If its just numbers, I call it fact.

-You in your first post say the Pats were missing 2-3 linemen for a significant Portion of the year, then say in your next that Light was hurt but didn't miss time and another guy missed 2 games... this isn't a significant amount of time.(and tell me to go find out the details, well I am not the one who made up the fact, when I do I'll post you a link)

That ones on me. I thought it was 2-3 for a few games each. But I misread a pats injury report during the season. In the end its just a few injuries and a few games. My Bad bro.

-Then you go on to say I shouldn't make the assertion Zorn shrunk the offense because the players(qb) didn't have a grasp on it... if you don't make this assertion then you are assuming our HC for some unknown reason during the middle of the season decided to take out plays that were working successfully? Which one of these two options is more logical and probable... thats how I came to my assertion... but your that assertion shrinking the playbook hurt the offense is probably spot on you know more than any offensive coordinator or hc on the skins.

Zorn called a great offense from games 2-8 and really conservative from 8-16. Im not sure how we can come to a conclusion. I said in another post unless we sit and rewatch all games and try to analyze the numbers of plays called etc.

But players on our team said Z got unimaginative. Players on other teams said Z got unimaginative. Announcers said Z got unimaginative. The only people that dont think Z got unimaginative are on these messageboard.

Ok, how bout this example to illustrate, but not prove my point. Devin Thomas scores his first NFL TD on a great Reverse against NY. Great play. And it worked like a charm. You know why? Cause it was the first reverse called since Fred Davis's failed reverse against CLE. Before that CLE game we had seen reverses from Thomas, Moss, and ARE. Those reverses worked for some reason and worked in the RZ (ARE to Cooley in PHI). Those plays werent called for weeks. Why? Cause Jason couldnt handle handing a ball to a WR instead of a RB? Same thing with the Jumbo set we ran with 3 TEs early on in the RZ against AZ, NO, and in DAL. Didnt see it again till PITT. We scored with it. It went MIA for weeks. Why? Cause Campbell throwing TDs isnt the prefered result? Thats not "grasping it?"

Z could have just wanted to use more ball control passes while his RB was hurt midyear. He could have felt losses like STL and PITT were because he was too unconventional with his playcalls and just gone to basics. Who knows. But I cant look at the breadth of plays called early on, vs during the later games and say it increased or stayed the same. But I guess until I provide some commercial website's stats that confirm that its just an opinion. Fair enough, Ill see what I can do bro.

[Mahons21]

I thought I said I got the blitzing stats from SI. Go to a QB, theres a tab for passing splits. In there is numbers "while being blitzed" or "under blitz" or something like that

-Ill go check em out... I have usually seen people post direct links when they call something fact though.

Zorn called a great offense from games 2-8 and really conservative from 8-16. Im not sure how we can come to a conclusion. I said in another post unless we sit and rewatch all games and try to analyze the numbers of plays called etc.

But players on our team said Z got unimaginative. Players on other teams said Z got unimaginative. Announcers said Z got unimaginative. The only people that dont think Z got unimaginative are on these messageboard.

Ok, how bout this example to illustrate, but not prove my point. Devin Thomas scores his first NFL TD on a great Reverse against NY. Great play. And it worked like a charm. You know why? Cause it was the first reverse called since Fred Davis's failed reverse against CLE. Before that CLE game we had seen reverses from Thomas, Moss, and ARE. Those reverses worked for some reason and worked in the RZ (ARE to Cooley in PHI). Those plays werent called for weeks. Why? Cause Jason couldnt handle handing a ball to a WR instead of a RB? Same thing with the Jumbo set we ran with 3 TEs early on in the RZ against AZ, NO, and in DAL. Didnt see it again till PITT. We scored with it. It went MIA for weeks. Why? Cause Campbell throwing TDs isnt the prefered result? Thats not "grasping it?"

Z could have just wanted to use more ball control passes while his RB was hurt midyear. He could have felt losses like STL and PITT were because he was too unconventional with his playcalls and just gone to basics. Who knows. But I cant look at the breadth of plays called early on, vs during the later games and say it increased or stayed the same. But I guess until I provide some commercial website's stats that confirm that its just an opinion. Fair enough, Ill see what I can do bro.

-On the reverse... the play probably wasn't called for awhile because in the NFL if you starting running reverses every week... teams pick up on it... its not shrinking the playbook its trying to remain unpredictable

[Hunter_R]

its not shrinking the playbook its trying to remain unpredictable

Zorn failed miserably in that attempt.

[eljeasel]

-Ill go check em out... I have usually seen people post direct links when they call something fact though.

I see what youre saying. Some dude comes out with some stats claiming that a commonly accepted idea is false and doesnt cite some source? I might be suspicious too. If you end up finding out a game by game break down regarding blitz frequency or performance against the blitz, Id love to see that too.

-On the reverse... the play probably wasn't called for awhile because in the NFL if you starting running reverses every week... teams pick up on it... its not shrinking the playbook its trying to remain unpredictable

I totally get that. You want to stay dynamic. But I was using the reverse as an example of something I dont think I can statistically prove. So Ill lay off it in this thread unless someone else brings it up.

One of my friends explained Z to someone as someone who tried to be so unconventional he made himself conventional. Thats gibberish but it almost makes sense if my assertion is right.

[Mahons21]

I see what youre saying. Some dude comes out with some stats claiming that a commonly accepted idea is false and doesnt cite some source? I might be suspicious too. If you end up finding out a game by game break down regarding blitz frequency or performance against the blitz, Id love to see that too.

-I haven't been able to but your numbers are dead on from what I have found, now I interested in anaylzing these numbers a little more, as well as looking at qb's around the NFL not just the NFCe a division that both blitzes a lot and didn't all of our teams play the blitz happy steelers and Ravens?

One of my friends explained Z to someone as someone who tried to be so unconventional he made himself conventional. Thats gibberish but it almost makes sense if my assertion is right.

-True I just don't think anyone could logically follow your assertion, though Zorn may have lost logic.

[eljeasel]

-I haven't been able to but your numbers are dead on from what I have found, now I interested in anaylzing these numbers a little more, as well as looking at qb's around the NFL not just the NFCe a division that both blitzes a lot and didn't all of our teams play the blitz happy steelers and Ravens?

Oh Id love to see that kind of thing. I just picked the division because its similar competition. We all played similar opponents. Id expect someone like Brees or Warner would smoke the NFCE guys (cept McNabb).

-True I just don't think anyone could logically follow your assertion, though Zorn may have lost logic.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.

[GreenRiggins]

You know, we must really have a sad QB situation when we are all clamoring to see our noodle-armed 3rd stringer.

Get Cutler if you can Dan.

[Taylorfan2179]

i think bradshaw is an idiot.

[HawaiianTime]

You know, we must really have a sad QB situation when we are all clamoring to see our noodle-armed 3rd stringer.

Get Cutler if you can Dan.

Ummm, that noodle arm lit ASU up like a Christmas tree and sent Dirk Koetter reeling with not just a loss, but a spanking. 5 TDs, Noodle Arm???, you jest.