dockeryfan Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sometimes a patient needs to be allowed to die instead of resuscitated again and again. Like AIG Like investment banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Seriously the "righteous awakening" is getting a little tired. We get it H_H...you are wise. Now leave the rest of us feeble minded conservatives alone. Right, because I started the BS in this thread. Sheeple, porkulus, openyoureyesulus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Oh, some dems are playing politics too especially in how they are trying to take advantage of the win. I think Pelosi has misbehaved badly in the House, for example. The line... Traitor to the party I find to be dangerous. That one's alliegance to a party should be so high that having an opinion in opposition to it could be treason is not a good thought. Every Rep and Senator should vote based on the facts and their conscience and not the party line. To specify, this is the politics game I think some Repubs are playing: If they reject the stimulus and it fails they get the credit. If they support it and the stimulus works Obama and the Dems will get the credit. If they compromise and it works, Obama and the Dems get the credit (because they are the party in charge and that's how it works perceptionwise. It's why Bush got all the credit or blame for the last eight) So, strategically it's in the Republicans best interest to be obstructionists. It doesn't actually matter what the country needs or doesn't. It's about power and recapturing it. The Dems went along with Bush when he said we need to go to Iraq. The Dems went along with Bush when Bush and Paulson said we desperately needed a bank Bailout. Now, I'm not arguing right or wrong... I'm just being highly cynical about motive. I remember a lot of Republicans arguing for the bailout and when the final tally was made 40% voted for it. From 40% to 0% is a suspiscious drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Does anyone know/care what's actually in this bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 How is it not playing politics for Obama to include billions to pay for his new initiatives in an emergency bill with little or no debate? How is he not playing games with the stimulus, but those who call him on it are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I've been you, IHOP. I bought the talking points....Calling 3 Republicans who turn there back on their party is ACCURATE......Not a talking pointThe "talking points" come latter when the LIBERAL MEDIA makes them out to be Saints....and those that vilify them Sinners That talking point my friend you have bought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Calling 3 Republicans who turn there back on their party is ACCURATE......Not a talking pointThe "talking points" come latter when the LIBERAL MEDIA makes them out to be Saints....and those that vilify them Sinners That talking point my friend you have bought Who are the three? What was the reasoning behind their decisions? Washington and Jefferson were "traitors," were they not? I guess that was a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Like AIGLike investment banks. Certainly, if allowed to die and be replaced with a working model we would not be hearing the whinning about waste,fraud and executive bonuses funded by the taxpayers. I supported letting them go bankrupt and reorganize,unlike W and the Dem led congress. GibbsFactor No one can know till it is finalized;),but yes I have tried to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 So, strategically it's in the Republicans best interest to be obstructionists. It doesn't actually matter what the country needs or doesn't. It's about power and recapturing it. It's actually one of the things the republican party does extremely well. If you look at the voting in the last few days, it's right along party lines. Republicans have always been very good at trying to play spoiler. Democrats? Not so much, hence terms like "Reagan Democrats" in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Who are the three? What was the reasoning behind their decisions?Well this is somewhat mute since it hasn't happened yetBUT Assuming that the Stim Passes.... By midday, the majority leader had spoken once with Obama by phone and five times with Emanuel. He met with Republican Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, but it was not immediately clear whether a deal was within reach. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_go_co/congress_stimulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 The local governments are broke. Funding local regions who might know how to best channel the money isn't a bad thing. Yes, because each state spent the Tabacco money exactly as they should have... It would be nice if it worked, i'm just wondering HOW it can work. The details say no. The New Deal thread was about not enough quick enough.. this seems to follow history. THE SCREAMING AND CRYING has caused quite a bit of the crap to come out of the bill. ***** That is the reason you fight a crap bill down to just a yucky bill that has a chance ****** you get campaign running payback money out of the bill a bit.. Is that so horrible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Certainly, if allowed to die and be replaced with a working model we would not be hearing the whinning about waste,fraud and executive bonuses funded by the taxpayers.I supported letting them go bankrupt and reorganize,unlike W and the Dem led congress. Ummm that was Paulson and Bush's plan. Because the Dem led congress supported the policy of the sec of the treasury and the Pres they should be faulted? If people want to talk about treason, look at Paulson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Ummm that was Paulson and Bush's plan. Because the Dem led congress supported the policy of the sec of the treasury and the Pres they should be faulted? If people want to talk about treason, look at Paulson. Yes it was, now O expects even more foolish spending w/o transparency. Changing the parties w/o changing behavior does not yield different results. Ah **** it...stimulate the hell out of me.:2cents: Not like I'm gonna be around to pay for it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 .....Washington and Jefferson were "traitors," were they not? I guess that was a bad thing?So was Arnolddepends upon your perspective......ya know...conservative, liberal.... Definition of REPUBLICAN-------one who votes REPUBLICAN Enough of this Hijack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Yes it was, now O expects even more foolish spending w/o transparency.Changing the parties w/o changing behavior does not yield different results. Ah **** it...stimulate the hell out of me.:2cents: Not like I'm gonna be around to pay for it anyway. No, it's MY generation that's gonna have to pay for it :mad::mad::mad:And hog, "Buy American" isn't liberal OR conservative, it's jingoistic idiocy. EDIT: Oh, and that's what she said :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 No, it's MY generation that's gonna have to pay for it :mad::mad::mad:And hog, "Buy American" isn't liberal OR conservative, it's jingoistic idiocy. I like saying "jingoistic." And I've certainly never been accused of being above some good-ol-fashioned idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Obama = larger tax cut than McCain. (Conservative principle.) Obama = Making affirmative action need-based not race-based. (Conservative principle.) Obama = Giving father's paying child support a share of the tax credit; thereby reducing their tax burden. (Conservative principle.) Obama = Told blacks in Selma to do all they can for themselves, and only when that's exhausted ask government for help. (Conservative principle.) Obama = Buy American. (Conservative principle.) Obama = A Kennedyesque call for us to do for our country; not the other way around. (Sorry dems, Conservative principle.) If O can pull those off I will be pleased I would put money on you ending up a bitter disillusioned grouch instead. Which is alright,I could use the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 If O can pull those off I will be pleasedI would put money on you ending up a bitter disillusioned grouch instead. Which is alright,I could use the company. Thanks, t-dub. That's the thing. I DON'T agree with Obama on everything. Not even close. The SCOTUS scares me to death. But the things I listed are some major concerns of mine, and if he can improve them, I'll consider his presidency to have been a success. (But yeah, I'm sure I'll be back batting clean-up for the home team at some point. How soon? Who knows.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 On the tax cuts... didn't we just try eight years of tax cuts? How did they stimulate the economy? Tax cuts alone don't cut it (especially when combined with god awful spending sprees) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brave Little Toaster Oven Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I know its coming from Lou Dobbs, but have any of you seen his breakdown of the amnesty plan? the plan is just horrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUSkinsFan Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 And hog, "Buy American" isn't liberal OR conservative, it's jingoistic idiocy.My parents and grandparents have a saying. "Leave your money at home". It's referring to spending your money in your local community whenever possible. If I'm looking for a product and there is one made in the United States and one made in Japan and the price and quality are similar than I don't have a problem buying American. I would rather give my money to an American company so I can try and keep the money in the United States.I will admit, the one thing I always buy American regardless of price/quality is the American Flag. I just can't justify buying a symbol of our country that was made in Taiwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well obviously, one can neither support, or criticize this puppy/pig, without being labeled by the other side as a (fill in the blank). For for the record, IMO, it's a pig, wallowing in bull****, and it stinks to high hell. Ooh BABY! Bend over And Brace Yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Too bad. I was hoping that it wouldn't pass and there would be no stimulus. Bad for america. I foresee really bad things happening after this package passes. Becuase it won't work. Maybe for a year, but after that, disaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 It's a sad day for America. We may not see the negative impact immediately, but take it to the bank, it will end bad for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Bastiat described it best with the "broken window fallacy." The story goes: A naughty boy breaks a store window with a rock, and an observer says this will help boost the economy, since the shopkeeper now needs to buy a new window, so the windowmaker will have money to buy new shoes, so the shoemaker will have more money to buy what he wants, and so the effect of the window destruction will ultimately be wealth creation. This ignores, what the shopkeeper would have done with the money had his window not been broken. He could have bought something else, and he'd still have his window. Bastiat stressed that an economist's role was to understand not just what was seen in economic life, but what was unseen. What's unseen in the stimulus package is where taxpayers would spend that trillion dollars if it wasn't taxed or inflated away from them. That money would certainly produce jobs that will instead be destroyed by the stimulus package. And those jobs would produce goods and services actually demanded by the market, rather than by politicians and lobbyists and bureaucrats. There is no way the government can create more productive jobs with its package than if it were to do nothing. The key to overcoming thiseconomic downturn is to allow the market to create wealth. Economic productivity makes for high-paying jobs and an affordable decent standard of living. When the government tries creating jobs for its own sake it is very counterproductive for the longterm health of the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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