hitmandm Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The online is a problem and that does affect JC. The problem is that JC can't throw TD passes. He never has in the pros or in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 How do you know those improvements won't make him better? They made Warner better, they made Eli better, etc. Again you are talking in absolutes while venting out frystrations. It's nothing new with you, but I thought you would have learned a lesson about speaking in absolutes after being wrong so much. You can say, "in my opinion", or "I think", and you are simply giving an opinion. You are trying to state your opinion as fact, and you are already admittedly biased in the matter because you've given up hope with JC, so nothing you hear is going to matter. It's pretty awful to be so closed off. Once the Skins start winning again you'll be on here singing a different tune like always. lol, since ive been a member of this board, the skins arent winning, and i usually sing the same tune. and you can claim im talking in absolutes, i guess to appease you ill say that im 99% positive campbell will be the same campbell next year. yes there is a 1% chance that he might flourish. but im not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Everyone wants to discuss the drought at Qb< well what about the one at WR? Receivers? Wow dude... Lloyd, Randle El, 2008 draft, where to start. Hell lets think Spurrier and trade our first rounder for Randy Moss and give him the biggest contract in history. Agreed, I was simply using Elway as an example of what a QB can acheive when his supporting cast is improved. I also used Elway because for a large part of his career he had low TD #s. He broke 20 TDs in a season just 1 time in his first 10 seasons in the league, his career passer rating is below 80 (79.9). Elway didn't put up HOF stats until the '93 season and on, when he started getting a better supporting cast. The knock on Elway was that he wasn't as good as Montana because he couldn't win a SB. You're brushing over things way to loosely here. By his 5th season Elway was the MVP, had been in the playoffs 4 times, the SB twice and the pro bowl twice. You're ignoring that Elway played in the 80s in his first 10 seasons, ignoring his rushing numbers and any injuries he might've had. There is no comparison here. What is your point. That Tarrell Davis made the Broncos better? He was a 2000 yard, 15 TD running back. Kinda trivial point. This current team is too old on the lines now, so if the current team has a new OT or OG starting next season, and a reliable WR target other than Moss, then JC won't have any excuses. That's what we said last season. If JC doesn't improve with an improved roster, or worse, regresses, then goodbye, I have no problem seeing another QB come in. But I'm not going to write him off simply because some people on here are saying he isn't getting "it" done. "It" typically meaning we didn't win enough games and the poster would rather attach conveneint rhetoric than look at all aspects of a team game. I haven't written him off, I'm just pretty sure he's not this franchise QB everyone is envisioning him to be. He can be a good game manager if his decision making gets faster and he learns to read the defense better. I'm just not looking at our team, with scoring problems, a poor passing game and claiming the QB isn't part of the problem here. People say we need a new LG/C/RG/RT/WR/RB without blinking yet when people say we need a new QB or just want some competition for the spot they get all defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 this whole receivers thing too. moss had no trouble putting up almost 1500 yards with boonell, because he was accurate with the deep ball as long as his arm worked. cooley is a probowler, and the two rookies we have are tall and fluid, zorn just wouldnt let them play. maybe this year they show up, but were not investing anything else in receivers at the moment, and this is campbells last year to show he can do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 If there is no major improvement from the OL, this may very well be Jason Campbell's last year here in DC which would be unfortunate. I think that he has great physical skills, but I don't know that we will ever see what he is fully capable of doing if we continue to use a patchwork OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 lol, since ive been a member of this board, the skins arent winning, and i usually sing the same tune. and you can claim im talking in absolutes, i guess to appease you ill say that im 99% positive campbell will be the same campbell next year. yes there is a 1% chance that he might flourish. but im not holding my breath. fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I haven't written him off, I'm just pretty sure he's not this franchise QB everyone is envisioning him to be. He can be a good game manager if his decision making gets faster and he learns to read the defense better. I'm just not looking at our team, with scoring problems, a poor passing game and claiming the QB isn't part of the problem here. People say we need a new LG/C/RG/RT/WR/RB without blinking yet when people say we need a new QB or just want some competition for the spot they get all defensive. I'm not claiming QB isn't part of the problem either, rather just saying it isn't the biggest or sole problem we have on O in response to those who are suggesting otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emoshag Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 uhh, yeah, the Ol did deteriorate when played better defenses. I guess when you're starters are injured or can't practice as much because of wear and tear from age and the season, then they will perform less against tougher defenses. I'm not sure why that is so funny to you, it should be common sense.So again, age and injury caught up with the OL, and the most noticeable decline with the QB and RB start week 9 against the Steelers. Campbell always looked good when the running game took all the pressure off of him. That all started at Auburn with Ronnie Brown and Carnell Williams. As soon as the running game gets stuffed, he gets exposed. When the heavy blitz better line teams faced the Skins, they were blitzing Portis, not Campbell. I heard both Jim Johnson (Eagles) and James Harrison (Steelers) say this same thing. I don't think it was a breakdown in the line. Jansen and Kendall were inconsistent at best all year long. And the best quarters for Portis were statistically the fourth quarter. So they wore out the defenses they faced (because we never had a comfort margin or lead to just run out the clock). Campbell just isn't clutch and he is not a winner. And I don't mean he hasn't won games. He just hasn't won a single game outside of the 2008 Saints game on his shoulders. He isn't Big Ben. Thats a clutch quarterback. No gaudy numbers.... no elite receivers to throw to.... just clutch. Start Colt Brennan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 edit: nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 also, about this oline thing, lets look at some other teams olines, four i picked for examples. look at jay cutler, drew brees, aaron rodgers, and phillip rivers. all of them are in top 10 for TDs, and only one of them is a vet (brees). now, in my opinion, all of these guys are light years beyond campbell, but lets look at why. do any of these guys have stellar olines? aaron rodgers plays behind a bunch of guys that ive never even heard of, dont think any of them have been to a pro bowl. but i guess hes got good receivers in jennings and driver so thats the excuse we'll give him. drew brees has one pro bowler on his line, who backed up samuels in the pro bowl. other than that, not sure i know anybody on that line, definitely no monster blockers. and what receivers does he really have? colston missed half the season, and brees threw 5000 yards to devery henderson, lance moore, and terrance copper. oh, and david patten, a guy who did nothing here. but his excuse is that hes drew brees and hes just elite, or that he has reggie bush, or its sean paytons scheme. next. phillip rivers has a good oline, but what receiving targets does he really have? gates is always reliable, but aside from him, nobody on that team did anything until this year (when phillip rivers showed up to play). vincent jackson had a good year, but aside from him, nobody stepped up, and rivers still knew how to get into the endzone. this is all with a weak year from tomlinson. and chris cooley had more receptions and yards than gates, yet cooley didnt catch a TD pass from his QB. wonder why that is. must be the oline or someone elses fault. and jay cutler, who is on the broncos oline? no one that i know, other than ryan clady cause i know he was a high draft pick. hes got brandon marshall who is a great receiver, and rookie eddie royal had a breakout year. i guess his receivers are just way better than ours. funny thing is, campbell put up decent yardage this season at 3245, which is ok considering we are a run first team (even though we arent supposed to be). whats sad is, he cannot throw TD passes. all these other QBs throw TDs. most of their #1 receivers had similar years to santana moss, except for in TDs, because campbell cant throw them. its not the line, or the receivers people. its campbell. he cant throw TDs and he will never be able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 its not the line, or the receivers people. its campbell. he cant throw TDs and he will never be able to. I thought the object of the game was to win, not just throw TDs. Not one of the quarterbacks that you are unfavorably comparing JC to had a better win/loss record than the Redskins this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I thought the object of the game was to win, not just throw TDs. Not one of the quarterbacks that you are unfavorably comparing JC to had a better win/loss record than the Redskins this year. -Points win games, therefore the more TD's you score the higher chance you have of winning. -The Chargers had a better win/loss record than the redskins this year (after being robbed in the DEN, CAR games. -None of those qb's have a top 5 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 -Points win games, therefore the more TD's you score the higher chance you have of winning.-The Chargers had a better win/loss record than the redskins this year (after being robbed in the DEN, CAR games. -None of those qb's have a top 5 defense. A better chance, yes, but it still didn't happen. The Chargers regular season record was the same as the Redskins. They lucked into the playoffs with an 8-8 record. Gotta love how Rivers is given a pass on two of the games lost because the team was robbed. But JC is never given a pass on the Rams or 49'ers games even though he basically won the Rams game with a 29 yd. pass to El and scored what would have been the winning TD in the 49'ers game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 A better chance, yes, but it still didn't happen.The Chargers regular season record was the same as the Redskins. They lucked into the playoffs with an 8-8 record. Gotta love how Rivers is given a pass on two of the games lost because the team was robbed. But JC is never given a pass on the Rams or 49'ers games even though he basically won the Rams game with a 29 yd. pass to El and scored what would have been the winning TD in the 49'ers game. -The referees admittedly made the wrong call in the DEN game, how you can compare that to the Rams or 49ers game is beyond me. In the Carolina game, Delhomme one of the most unlikely TD passes to his 2nd TE Rosario. -Also Rivers had 377 yds in the Denver game, and he led his team to 23 points in the Carolina game. Which is above the NFL standard that (scoring 21 points to win games) -He is light years above Campbell, there is no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 -The referees admittedly made the wrong call in the DEN game, how you can compare that to the Rams or 49ers game is beyond me. In the Carolina game, Delhomme one of the most unlikely TD passes to his 2nd TE Rosario. The comparison is when any of JC's supporters say he left the field with the Ram's game and the 49'ers game won, we are told he still lost it because he didn't have the team far enough ahead that one score would have made a difference. Apparently, the same logic doesn't apply to Rivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 jesus christ the campbell hate has gotten to the point where we are DEFENDING the offensive line of the 2008 Washington Redskins, and matching it up against elite offensive lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 jesus christthe campbell hate has gotten to the point where we are DEFENDING the offensive line of the 2008 Washington Redskins, and matching it up against elite offensive lines. -No Campbell love has gotten to the point, that people will do anything to excuse his poor play. Sure we don't have the best o-line in the game, but it was more than adequate for CP to have a 1500 yd season (basically). People are simply pointing out qb's who have had a great deal of success, with a similar o-line situation. -And I really wouldn't call SD, NO, DEN, or GB's line elite either. If you combine the amount of pro-bowl linemen from all four of these teams, you only have 1 more pro-bowl o-linemen than the skins had last season. If they are considered elite in your opinion, it is extremely hard for me to grasp how the skins line is so horrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The comparison is when any of JC's supporters say he left the field with the Ram's game and the 49'ers game won, we are told he still lost it because he didn't have the team far enough ahead that one score would have made a difference. Apparently, the same logic doesn't apply to Rivers. -In the Rams and 49ers game, the Redskins scored an average of 20.5 ppg and in the Chargers two losses to DEN and CAR their offense averaged 31 ppg. -So no in my opinion when you average 31 points per game, the logic that you didn't score enough points does not still apply. I guess you don't agree though? -If you don't already know, there is a certain standard in the NFL. I believe it is at like 21.5 ppg or right around their. The theory is if a team averages more than 21 ppg all season they will, majority of the time, have a winning record. It serves like a bar, if you want to win games you have to get over the bar you have to score over that 21 pt threshhold. In the two games you excuse Campbell, our offense didn't even manage to reach that threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The comparison is when any of JC's supporters say he left the field with the Ram's game and the 49'ers game won, we are told he still lost it because he didn't have the team far enough ahead that one score would have made a difference. Apparently, the same logic doesn't apply to Rivers. I had a dog, and his name was... Weak argument to say the Niners and Rams games weren't impressive late-game performances by JC. The defense does it's job on the last possession, and JC has two great come-from-behind victories under his belt. Moreover, not sure how anyone could blame JC for us being BEHIND in those games, either. Especially the Rams game. Not his fault Rabach, Kendall, and Cooley wanted to play loosey-goosey with the ball in Rams territory. Just to add, Denver has an elite pass-protecting line. Ryan Clady may be the best pass-protector in football already, so he's a tad more than "a first round pick" name. Those other teams, not as much, but Denver is certainly up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 -No Campbell love has gotten to the point, that people will do anything to excuse his poor play. Sure we don't have the best o-line in the game, but it was more than adequate for CP to have a 1500 yd season (basically). People are simply pointing out qb's who have had a great deal of success, with a similar o-line situation. And Portis got the majority of his yards in the first half of the season. In the first 8 games he had 5 games over 100 yds and one game that was 96 yds. Jason also had a win/loss record of 6-2 and a qb rating of 98.5. The second half of the season, Portis only had one game over 100 yds. and Jason had a record of 2-6. When our o-line was working for Portis, it was also working for Jason. After the 8th game the o-line wasn't adequate for Portis or JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 And Portis got the majority of his yards in the first half of the season. In the first 8 games he had 5 games over 100 yds and one game that was 96 yds. Jason also had a win/loss record of 6-2 and a qb rating of 98.5. The second half of the season, Portis only had one game over 100 yds. and Jason had a record of 2-6. When our o-line was working for Portis, it was also working for Jason. After the 8th game the o-line wasn't adequate for Portis or JC. There is also a school of thought that says the Skins offense was pretty much figured out by week 8. That the OL didn't suddenly get bad...but the defenses knew what to expect. The team had no deep passing game...so they bring up 8 in the box. Suddenly, Portis is less effective. The team ends up in a lot of 3rd and longs, and there are more guys in the box ready to jump in and break up the predicted slants and screens. This also led to the team having to leave more blockers in, resulting in less options in the passing game. This argument holds just as much validity as saying that the OL suddenly just 'sucked' after Week 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 no doubt because you also are so well informed. its nice to inspire such good sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I think Jason Campbell fits in between the best and worst hopes expressed on the board for him.He is never going to be a fluid passer like Brady or Manning. He is never going to be a leader in the huddle and locker room like Kurt Warner. At the same time he is not a bust. He is at the end of the day an 'average' starting quarterback in the NFL. A guy who can make a play when teams drop a coverage and who has the ability to surprise with his strong arm. There seems, though, to be something missing in his makeup, something that shows through in games in crunch time............. I'll agree with this to an extent. I'm not willing to predict the future of JC and say what he will or will not be, but I see him as an average QB. I don't see him as a savior type, nor as a bust, but as somebody who can be a legit starter, will win you some games and will lose you some games, but not the kind of guy who you'd expect to lead the league in TDs or yards, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 There is also a school of thought that says the Skins offense was pretty much figured out by week 8. That the OL didn't suddenly get bad...but the defenses knew what to expect. The team had no deep passing game...so they bring up 8 in the box. Suddenly, Portis is less effective. The team ends up in a lot of 3rd and longs, and there are more guys in the box ready to jump in and break up the predicted slants and screens. This also led to the team having to leave more blockers in, resulting in less options in the passing game. This argument holds just as much validity as saying that the OL suddenly just 'sucked' after Week 8. -I agree with a lot of this but I am not sure the NFL figured out our offense as much as they figured out Campbell. It is no secret that if you get a free rusher on Campbell 99.9% of the time it will result in a loss. He will not throw the ball away, nor will he make the necessary adjustments to make the defense pay for blitzing -Due to this teams began stack the box and consistently brought more than 4 down lineman.... The result, our offense sputters because Portis isn't superman, and Campbell is extremely ineffective when blitzed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 -I agree with a lot of this but I am not sure the NFL figured out our offense as much as they figured out Campbell. It is no secret that if you get a free rusher on Campbell 99.9% of the time it will result in a loss. He will not throw the ball away, nor will he make the necessary adjustments to make the defense pay for blitzing-Due to this teams began stack the box and consistently brought more than 4 down lineman.... The result, our offense sputters because Portis isn't superman, and Campbell is extremely ineffective when blitzed. I shudder to think how much this reminds me of Spurrier's offense. Blitz it, and it fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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