Per Mike Lombardi: Redskins will need a new QB in 2010

[elkabong82]

Nonsense? I guess I just imagined all those games late in the season when my friends and I correctly predicted the upcoming play more than half the time.

And we didn't even study film all week.

just because you call run or pass dependant on the situation and are right occasionally, it doesn't mean you are predicting the offense. Now if you were calling specific pass plays, like slants or screens, etc., that would be one thing, but saying "the ball is going to x player" doesn't mean you've actually predicted the offense.

[Oldfan]

Nonsense? I guess I just imagined all those games late in the season when my friends and I correctly predicted the upcoming play more than half the time.

If you were guessing because you had already made up your mind he was predictable, you probably did imagine it. Did you and your friends always agree?

[elkabong82]

so it seems like our oline started to deteriorate when we started playing better defenses? lol

campbell had 4 good games to start the season, then he pretty much played the same for the rest of the season. no touchdowns, and mediocre games.

uhh, yeah, the Ol did deteriorate when played better defenses. I guess when you're starters are injured or can't practice as much because of wear and tear from age and the season, then they will perform less against tougher defenses. I'm not sure why that is so funny to you, it should be common sense.

Campbell didn't have a ton of TDs in any game this season. Where the fault lies with that non of us truly know, we can only speculate. What you have to look at to determine when the OL started crapping out is when the injuries occurred, and when significant statistical changes began to occur for the QB and RB.

For Campbell, his pass yards and TDs didn't fluctuate enough to accyrately gauge a potential decline in the OL. However, his yds per pass avg per game fell after the Steelers game, he was sacked 7 times against the Steelers and even more after that than in the first half, and his passer rating was down all the second half of the season as well. Then you look at Clinton, which you either ignored on purpose or you've conceded that point, and you see his production go markedly down from Pittsburgh on, just as Campbell did. CP also had a myriad of injuries to deal with.

So again, age and injury caught up with the OL, and the most noticeable decline with the QB and RB start week 9 against the Steelers.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

uhh, yeah, the Ol did deteriorate when played better defenses. I guess when you're starters are injured or can't practice as much because of wear and tear from age and the season, then they will perform less against tougher defenses. I'm not sure why that is so funny to you, it should be common sense.

Campbell didn't have a ton of TDs in any game this season. Where the fault lies with that non of us truly know, we can only speculate. What you have to look at to determine when the OL started crapping out is when the injuries occurred, and when significant statistical changes began to occur for the QB and RB.

For Campbell, his pass yards and TDs didn't fluctuate enough to accyrately gauge a potential decline in the OL. However, his yds per pass avg per game fell after the Steelers game, he was sacked 7 times against the Steelers and even more after that than in the first half, and his passer rating was down all the second half of the season as well. Then you look at Clinton, which you either ignored on purpose or you've conceded that point, and you see his production go markedly down from Pittsburgh on, just as Campbell did. CP also had a myriad of injuries to deal with.

So again, age and injury caught up with the OL, and the most noticeable decline with the QB and RB start week 9 against the Steelers.

my point, is that jasons decline started well before the steelers game, when everyone claims our oline started to decline. and portis had a fine game against the steelers, and dallas, and definitely an awesome game against the seahawks, 3 weeks after the pitt game. frankly, portis only had a few bad games this season, he only got the ball 11 times in two games which is tough to do anything with, and we still leaned on him well after that, when everyone knew campbell was garbage so we were gonna be forced to pound the ball like crazy.

jason started playing poor football during the first eagles game and into the rams game, and for the rest of the season. no touchdowns, and low amounts of yardage. i havent even looked at his YPA or YPPA yet, lord knows what id see. the oline has nothing to do with his performance. i thought the oline was a major factor, and i was a campbell apologist, until the bengals game. he had all day against a complete garbage defense, and he still accomplished nothing, which to me, shows that no matter what D hes facing, dude just cant get it done. hell he threw 1 TD against the lions. yeah, he carved them up for 328, but he threw 1 TD. the guy just cant score points for us, and he cant find open guys when it counts.

campbell is weak, and he will fail this season.

[RocketCitySkins]

my point, is that jasons decline started well before the steelers game, when everyone claims our oline started to decline.

jason started playing poor football during the first eagles game and into the rams game, and for the rest of the season. no touchdowns, and low amounts of yardage. i havent even looked at his YPA or YPPA yet, lord knows what id see. the oline has nothing to do with his performance.

No he didn't. His YPA and qb rating was good in the three games after the Philly game but before the Pitts. game.

[elkabong82]

my point, is that jasons decline started well before the steelers game, when everyone claims our oline started to decline. and portis had a fine game against the steelers, and dallas, and definitely an awesome game against the seahawks, 3 weeks after the pitt game. frankly, portis only had a few bad games this season, he only got the ball 11 times in two games which is tough to do anything with, and we still leaned on him well after that, when everyone knew campbell was garbage so we were gonna be forced to pound the ball like crazy.

jason started playing poor football during the first eagles game and into the rams game, and for the rest of the season. no touchdowns, and low amounts of yardage. i havent even looked at his YPA or YPPA yet, lord knows what id see. the oline has nothing to do with his performance. i thought the oline was a major factor, and i was a campbell apologist, until the bengals game. he had all day against a complete garbage defense, and he still accomplished nothing, which to me, shows that no matter what D hes facing, dude just cant get it done. hell he threw 1 TD against the lions. yeah, he carved them up for 328, but he threw 1 TD. the guy just cant score points for us, and he cant find open guys when it counts.

campbell is weak, and he will fail this season.

Well I pointed at week 9 as the most obvious signs of the start of the decline. However, the OL had it's problems from the start of the season against the Giants.

And I would argue that unless CP gets close to, or over, 100 yards it wasn't a good game for him. CP didn't have a game where he avergaed 5 yards or more for the game from the Steelers game through the rest of the season. I just happen to think that the decline from JC and CP being very noticeable from week 9 on, and that point also began our 2-6 2nd half of the season, is more than just coincidence. I don't think you can say Campbell was garbage and everyone knew it when his first half of the season was phenomenal and his performance for the season, overall, was decent and an improvement over last season.

Also, like I said arguing TDs is fruitless when we don;t know the exact system or plays being called. Elway typically had low TDs each season over his career, but I've always seen people saying that was a knock on the talent, or lack thereof, surrounding Elway. Once that talent came in, Elway won 2 Superbowls. When you're OL gives up 7 sacks in 1 game, has it's starters shuffled because of injury, and some starters can't practice during the week and can't recover fully from injuries from the previous season, that tends to show the OL is the weak unit. Of course the boat load of WR drops, especially on 3rd downs, would be an interesting stat to have and compare with the rest of the league. The WRs certainly weren't helping JC out like WRs elsewhere do.

I was at the Bengals game. I remember a great pass to Cooley, and Cooley fumbling it, and the Bengals scoring off of it. I remember the defense giving up a huge RB screen play for like 80 yards or so, which led to another score. I remember CP was more or less ineffective against the Bengals because he was consistently met at the LOS. I remember big Mike Sellers deciding to jump over the pile at the goalline, rather than barrel thru it, and I remember the refs not blowing the play dead when they should have, and Sellers coughing the ball up. Should be blame Campbell for 2 good drives blown by his teammates? I remember the whole team playing like crap, and I remember me and fellow Skins fans not being pleased by Moss' TD celabration because it was undeserved given how he and the rest of the team were playing.

Campbell completed 60% of hiss passes that game, but only had 28 attempts, one of his lowest of the season. His passer rating for that game was 89.4, so I really don't think the honus was on Campbell there, despite you saying so using only TDs and pass yards as proof. CP had 25 rush attempts for 77 yards, a 3.1 avg. He had no TDs, his longest run was 10 yards. Looking more and more like the OL dropped the ball in that game too.

Also, you are speaking in absolutes with Cambell, that you are 100% positive he;'s terrible, is the reason for most of our problems, and will never succeed. Normally when a person speaks in such absolutes, positive or negative, they will see what they want, rather than what is. Case in point being you focusing only on JC's yards and TDs for the Bengals game, and the season, rather than looking at all the stats and the stats of his supporting cast.

"Campbell is weak and will fail this season" Seriously? That's a bit overdramatic, even for you. I wonder if you were as certain about that as you were that our D wouldn't rebound after '06, or about the '05 and '07 runs failing.

[Passizle]

Also, you are speaking in absolutes with Cambell, that you are 100% positive he;'s terrible, is the reason for most of our problems, and will never succeed. Normally when a person speaks in such absolutes, positive or negative, they will see what they want, rather than what is. Case in point being you focusing only on JC's yards and TDs for the Bengals game, and the season, rather than looking at all the stats and the stats of his supporting cast.

"Campbell is weak and will fail this season" Seriously? That's a bit overdramatic, even for you. I wonder if you were as certain about that as you were that our D wouldn't rebound after '06, or about the '05 and '07 runs failing.

Good point. :applause::applause::applause:

I have noticed this type of blind-rage/hate too. Whats really absurd about it to me, is the fact that we have been playing the same type of ball for about 6 years now, yet its Campbells fault we dont win games.

This team has looked the same with Boonell, Ramsey, "insert QB name here" under center for the better part of a decade. Yet there are SOOO many people that think we have a QB probem.

You think that after trying sooooo many QB's you would have some **** stick to the wall. Well... it has not, so me thinks the QB is not the most glaring problem...

[elkabong82]

Good point. :applause::applause::applause:

I have noticed this type of blind-rage/hate too. Whats really absurd about it to me, is the fact that we have been playing the same type of ball for about 6 years now, yet its Campbells fault we dont win games.

This team has looked the same with Boonell, Ramsey, "insert QB name here" under center for the better part of a decade. Yet there are SOOO many people that think we have a QB probem.

You think that after trying sooooo many QB's you would have some **** stick to the wall. Well... it has not, so me thinks the QB is not the most glaring problem...

Thank you. And to further your point, when was the last time we had a play-making receiver? Moss in '05 comes to mind, and that's about it. I know some were high on Coles, but he, like Moss, always gets injured. Gardner was 50/50, Westbrook was a bust. I see everyone looking at the Skins of yore, bringing up our DL back then, or our Hogs. What I don't see is people mentioning that the offenses back then had receivers like Art Monk, Gary Clark, and Ricky Sanders, all of whom put up over 1,000 yards in a season at some point, and even all 3 did that in 1 season. I for one am glad we drafted Devin and Malcolm, I hope they can produce this upcoming season.

[Passizle]

Thank you. And to further your point, when was the last time we had a play-making receiver? Moss in '05 comes to mind, and that's about it. I know some were high on Coles, but he, like Moss, always gets injured. Gardner was 50/50, Westbrook was a bust. I see everyone looking at the Skins of yore, bringing up our DL back then, or our Hogs. What I don't see is people mentioning that the offenses back then had receivers like Art Monk, Gary Clark, and Ricky Sanders, all of whom put up over 1,000 yards in a season at some point, and even all 3 did that in 1 season. I for one am glad we drafted Devin and Malcolm, I hope they can produce this upcoming season.

Agree whole-heartedly. I think Moss is WAY over-rated. He can be a killer, but he NEEDS a great #2 on the other side to break up the double teams. Without that, he goes silent. His only strength is speed. He does not have good size, strength, hands, or route running skills... as far as I can tell... his ONLY move is the double.

I pray these new kids work out. We need that size, speed and strength to open up the game for all three guys...

[pilsburypgh]

Good point. :applause::applause::applause:

I have noticed this type of blind-rage/hate too. Whats really absurd about it to me, is the fact that we have been playing the same type of ball for about 6 years now, yet its Campbells fault we dont win games.

This team has looked the same with Boonell, Ramsey, "insert QB name here" under center for the better part of a decade. Yet there are SOOO many people that think we have a QB probem.

You think that after trying sooooo many QB's you would have some **** stick to the wall. Well... it has not, so me thinks the QB is not the most glaring problem...

We have a QB problem here dude trust me. Thats where it all starts. We havent had a good QB in a long time, We keep bringin in bum after bum. We are so happy to see the present bum QB go that we take any bum to replace him hoping for better results. This team needs to go after some big time QBs. Every thing starts with the QB dude, you can maybe have a fluke season with a average QB, but everone wants to win year in and year out, take a look around? All the teams you see that constantly win games have big time QBs.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Well I pointed at week 9 as the most obvious signs of the start of the decline. However, the OL had it's problems from the start of the season against the Giants.

i dont remember the oline seeming to have a problem when portis was mowing down defenses. seems the online only has problems when candle cant get it done. the oline isnt why campbell fails, hes just not a good QB. you can call me a blind hater or whatever derogatory comment you will, but the guy just doesnt ever get it done. you could make excuses for the next 10 seasons (which im 100% positive you would) about why hes not doing x y and z, but point blank: he isnt doing x y and z. rather than replace every other player, why dont we just try someone else? it doesnt take decades to learn systems and get it together with new players, thats all just BS excuses. candle will look the same this year as he did last.

And I would argue that unless CP gets close to, or over, 100 yards it wasn't a good game for him. CP didn't have a game where he avergaed 5 yards or more for the game from the Steelers game through the rest of the season. I just happen to think that the decline from JC and CP being very noticeable from week 9 on, and that point also began our 2-6 2nd half of the season, is more than just coincidence. I don't think you can say Campbell was garbage and everyone knew it when his first half of the season was phenomenal and his performance for the season, overall, was decent and an improvement over last season.

i disagree. YPC is what i look at. 3.9 against the steelers is fine, considering their D is nuts. 4.5 against the cowboys is great, problem is he only got the ball 16 times because campbell couldnt do jack in the air and you cant run all game. he destroyed the seahawks, then it all went downhill for him, but he was only given 11 carries in the next 2 games. portis cant do it all by himself, and god only knows how great he could be if we had a QB that could do anything other than check down to betts. again, campbell started regressing well before portis did. and please dont use the word phenomenal and campbell together, thats just embarrassing.

Also, like I said arguing TDs is fruitless when we don;t know the exact system or plays being called. Elway typically had low TDs each season over his career, but I've always seen people saying that was a knock on the talent, or lack thereof, surrounding Elway. Once that talent came in, Elway won 2 Superbowls. When you're OL gives up 7 sacks in 1 game, has it's starters shuffled because of injury, and some starters can't practice during the week and can't recover fully from injuries from the previous season, that tends to show the OL is the weak unit. Of course the boat load of WR drops, especially on 3rd downs, would be an interesting stat to have and compare with the rest of the league. The WRs certainly weren't helping JC out like WRs elsewhere do.

again, more passing the blame off on everyone else other than campbell. JC cannot complete the necessary passes in the redzone because hes not a good quarterback. it has nothing to do with our schemes or the other players, hell we have multiple pro bowl receiving targets that he couldnt even find in the endzone. HE DIDNT THROW A TD TO COOLEY ALL SEASON! thats just awful. and his TD numbers were weak before we reached the steelers game where you claim our offensive line just went to bed.

I was at the Bengals game. I remember a great pass to Cooley, and Cooley fumbling it, and the Bengals scoring off of it. I remember the defense giving up a huge RB screen play for like 80 yards or so, which led to another score. I remember CP was more or less ineffective against the Bengals because he was consistently met at the LOS. I remember big Mike Sellers deciding to jump over the pile at the goalline, rather than barrel thru it, and I remember the refs not blowing the play dead when they should have, and Sellers coughing the ball up. Should be blame Campbell for 2 good drives blown by his teammates? I remember the whole team playing like crap, and I remember me and fellow Skins fans not being pleased by Moss' TD celabration because it was undeserved given how he and the rest of the team were playing.

i remember candles line that game against the woeful bengals: 17/28 for 167 and 1 TD. 167 yards. thats just sad. in a must win game for us to keep our playoff hopes alive, thats what our qb gives us. yes it sucks that cooley fumbled, and yes it sucks that sellers couldnt get over and that the play wasnt blown dead, but we still only put up 13 points against a bad team. good QBs can put up more than 167 yards in a must win game against an awful team.

Campbell completed 60% of hiss passes that game, but only had 28 attempts, one of his lowest of the season. His passer rating for that game was 89.4, so I really don't think the honus was on Campbell there, despite you saying so using only TDs and pass yards as proof. CP had 25 rush attempts for 77 yards, a 3.1 avg. He had no TDs, his longest run was 10 yards. Looking more and more like the OL dropped the ball in that game too.

were gonna venture into boonell territory. comp % is meaningless if youre throwing dump offs the whole game. i agree CP had a garbage game that day, and our oline wasnt runblocking very well, but i dont remember JC getting touched that game, and actually, he wasnt sacked once in that game. so to have time (and spare me the pressures, he wasnt from what i can remember and 0 sacks lends itself to that fact), he still couldnt do anything.

Also, you are speaking in absolutes with Cambell, that you are 100% positive he;'s terrible, is the reason for most of our problems, and will never succeed. Normally when a person speaks in such absolutes, positive or negative, they will see what they want, rather than what is. Case in point being you focusing only on JC's yards and TDs for the Bengals game, and the season, rather than looking at all the stats and the stats of his supporting cast.

yes, im 100% positive hes terrible. i watched every single one of his 7 starts in 2006, all 12 of them in 2007, and all 16 of them in 2008. thats 35 games ive watched him play quarterback. i dont want him to fail, i want him to be our savior, but im not blind enough to think so. 35 games is enough to know what weve got, and what weve got is a career backup game manager who wont throw picks but will never make any big plays or lead us anywhere. hes just a below average QB. he belongs on a team that has a rabid defense like the bears of the ravens. he will never succeed on this team and frankly im surprised that some of you are still holding out hope after 35 friggin games.

"Campbell is weak and will fail this season" Seriously? That's a bit overdramatic, even for you. I wonder if you were as certain about that as you were that our D wouldn't rebound after '06, or about the '05 and '07 runs failing.

and i remember winning the sig bet about our defense not making 2/3 of those goals, and we still have the same problems as we did and always will. no pass rush, no turnovers = overrated defense. but thats for another thread. in regards to campbell, ive seen enough. time to see something else for me. and thats hardly impatient, ive seen 35 games, and all of them look similar to me. the occassional 2 TD game with 250 yards, but usually its short throws, 1 TD every other game, and our coaching staff leaning on portis to run 30 times a game.

that is a recipe for mediocrity, which is where we currently sit.

[Mooka]

Also, like I said arguing TDs is fruitless when we don;t know the exact system or plays being called.

Why is it fruitless? Campbell has among the lowest TD totals in the league. Do we have the worst system in the entire league? Per game, Campbell is 36 out of 41 QBs this year.

The Raiders averaged 148 passing yards a game and their QBs still put up more TD's then Campbell.

Campbell's completion % or low turnover rate puts him above some other QBs, but can you really fault someone for putting their foot down on the TD statistic? Its pretty bad.

Elway typically had low TDs each season over his career, but I've always seen people saying that was a knock on the talent, or lack thereof, surrounding Elway. Once that talent came in, Elway won 2 Superbowls.

But Elway won football games. He went 13-3 in his second season and went to back to back Superbowls in his fourth and fifth seasons. Losing of course... WOOT! :logo:

People were knocking him on a different level, like they used to knock Peyton Manning.

"Campbell is weak and will fail this season" Seriously? That's a bit overdramatic, even for you. I wonder if you were as certain about that as you were that our D wouldn't rebound after '06, or about the '05 and '07 runs failing.

Plenty of people said it about Campbell last year, but we were too busy calling them haters.

I'm starting to listen.

[hitmandm]

Its pretty clear that Cambell doesn't have it. You have to be able to throw TD passes in this league and JC just has never been able to do that, even in college.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

elkabong knows damn well i was on the campbell wagon last season and most of this season, but there comes a point where i cant watch anymore of the same nonsense and honestly believe something will change.

campbell just isnt good, plain and simple. no scheme, no pro bowl receivers, no nothing is going to make him any better.

[Passizle]

but everone wants to win year in and year out, take a look around? All the teams you see that constantly win games have big time men in the trenches

Fixed that fo you. I dont think you ca be more wrong in your assesment of a football team. All great teams... ALL great teams, have all-pro, pro-bowl talent on one or either side of the line of scrimmage. I will make a few cases in point to support this opinion...

Priest Holmes, and/or Larry Johnson were absolute beasts until when...

Roaf and Shields retired

Shaun Alexander was un unstoppabe force for many years... why?

One word to start... Hutchinson

Heck, even our own Riggins would not have been the diesel without the hogs... at least IMO.

But that all RB's. Lets talk QB's. Most QB's that are worth their weight in gold have GREAT offensive lines.

P Manning has McKinney, Saturday, Moore and Meadows have all been anchors at their positions for years...

Ehh... I dont want to bother going into this detail over and over again in thread after thread. If you are curious, just go to www.profootbsllreference.com and check out the facts yourself. Have fun. Its a great site.

[corrupt3d]

elkabong knows damn well i was on the campbell wagon last season and most of this season, but there comes a point where i cant watch anymore of the same nonsense and honestly believe something will change.

campbell just isnt good, plain and simple. no scheme, no pro bowl receivers, no nothing is going to make him any better.

well shoot, no scheme, no pro bowl receivers, no nothing is going to make any QB good if he doesn't have a line that cant hold their own jock, let alone a pass-rusher back.

[commyderm2]

I swear that the media just wants us to sign Matt Cassel so they can make fun of us for it.. I remember in like week 8 Colin Cowherd said that some stupid team was going to pay top dollar for this guy and it would probably be the Redskins.. Now this clown is saying that this is a move the Redskins need to make.. PLEASE!! besides.. the Pats need MC because Brady will not be ready to start next season..

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

well shoot, no scheme, no pro bowl receivers, no nothing is going to make any QB good if he doesn't have a line that cant hold their own jock, let alone a pass-rusher back.

youre right, its all the oline. campbell is just this monster stud but because our oline is so terrible, he just cant shine through. guess we better just keep waiting until we upgrade all 5 oline spots.

but once we do that, then it'll be how bad our receivers are, and how they drop every beautiful pass that campbell throws, or how theyre just never open.

then after we fix that, itll be the scheme, and how the playcalling is terrible and predictable, and how everybody knows whats coming, and how all of that is holding campbell back from being a pro bowler.

or we could just get a quarterback that doesnt suck?

[Stonoman]

JC is slow to react and will never lead the Redskins to the SB. Give Him say 15 seconds to look around and he may find someone to throw to.

[Mahons21]

Fixed that fo you. I dont think you ca be more wrong in your assesment of a football team. All great teams... ALL great teams, have all-pro, pro-bowl talent on one or either side of the line of scrimmage. I will make a few cases in point to support this opinion...

Priest Holmes, and/or Larry Johnson were absolute beasts until when...

Roaf and Shields retired

Shaun Alexander was un unstoppabe force for many years... why?

One word to start... Hutchinson

Heck, even our own Riggins would not have been the diesel without the hogs... at least IMO.

But that all RB's. Lets talk QB's. Most QB's that are worth their weight in gold have GREAT offensive lines.

P Manning has McKinney, Saturday, Moore and Meadows have all been anchors at their positions for years...

Ehh... I dont want to bother going into this detail over and over again in thread after thread. If you are curious, just go to www.profootbsllreference.com and check out the facts yourself. Have fun. Its a great site.

-It really seems you place too much emphasis on the dependence of a qb on his o-line, and not enough emphasis on how a good qb can make an o-line look good. Qb's with pocket presence, and the ability to accurate read defenses make their offensive line look better for two main reasons, a.)they get rid of the ball quickly (this allows the o-line to block for a shorter period of time, which will help them to conserve energy), and b.) good qb's have pocket presence, they are capabale of shifting around in the pocket given to them. Doing this makes an o-line pass protection appear much better to the viewer.

-Drew Brees is a good example of this, though he only has one pro-bowler on his line (who is backup to Chris Samuels), his ability to get rid of the ball and his movement inside the pocket, have allowed his pass protection to appear quite dominant. In fact Brees was only sacked 13 times on 635 attempts.

-As you can see from this example, it is possible for good qb's to succeed behind a less than stellar o-line. And much like the qb's performance is dependent on the o-line, so to is the o-line's performance dependent on the the abilities of the qb. If a qb is hesitant to pull the trigger and incapable moving around in the pocket when their is perceived pressure, the o-line is made to look a lot worst then they may actually be.

-It is a team game and all players are depedent on one another, and what makes a good player great in football is the ability to make your teammates better. For example Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, and Kris Jenkins, all have the ability to make there supporting cast appear dominant.

-You also mention how RB's numbers tend to drop after pro-bowl offensive linemen leave the team. This point seems rather obvious, and doesn't prove much of anything. What your essentially saying is losing a pro-bowler makes the team worst... no kidding. The same formula works when you take away a pro-bowl qb, look at the Patriots passing numbers this season in comparison with last season. Obviously their is a drastic drop off, because they lost their pro-bowl qb.

[elkabong82]

i dont remember the oline seeming to have a problem when portis was mowing down defenses. seems the online only has problems when candle cant get it done. the oline isnt why campbell fails, hes just not a good QB. you can call me a blind hater or whatever derogatory comment you will, but the guy just doesnt ever get it done. you could make excuses for the next 10 seasons (which im 100% positive you would) about why hes not doing x y and z, but point blank: he isnt doing x y and z. rather than replace every other player, why dont we just try someone else? it doesnt take decades to learn systems and get it together with new players, thats all just BS excuses. candle will look the same this year as he did last.

i disagree. YPC is what i look at. 3.9 against the steelers is fine, considering their D is nuts. 4.5 against the cowboys is great, problem is he only got the ball 16 times because campbell couldnt do jack in the air and you cant run all game. he destroyed the seahawks, then it all went downhill for him, but he was only given 11 carries in the next 2 games. portis cant do it all by himself, and god only knows how great he could be if we had a QB that could do anything other than check down to betts. again, campbell started regressing well before portis did. and please dont use the word phenomenal and campbell together, thats just embarrassing.

again, more passing the blame off on everyone else other than campbell. JC cannot complete the necessary passes in the redzone because hes not a good quarterback. it has nothing to do with our schemes or the other players, hell we have multiple pro bowl receiving targets that he couldnt even find in the endzone. HE DIDNT THROW A TD TO COOLEY ALL SEASON! thats just awful. and his TD numbers were weak before we reached the steelers game where you claim our offensive line just went to bed.

i remember candles line that game against the woeful bengals: 17/28 for 167 and 1 TD. 167 yards. thats just sad. in a must win game for us to keep our playoff hopes alive, thats what our qb gives us. yes it sucks that cooley fumbled, and yes it sucks that sellers couldnt get over and that the play wasnt blown dead, but we still only put up 13 points against a bad team. good QBs can put up more than 167 yards in a must win game against an awful team.

were gonna venture into boonell territory. comp % is meaningless if youre throwing dump offs the whole game. i agree CP had a garbage game that day, and our oline wasnt runblocking very well, but i dont remember JC getting touched that game, and actually, he wasnt sacked once in that game. so to have time (and spare me the pressures, he wasnt from what i can remember and 0 sacks lends itself to that fact), he still couldnt do anything.

yes, im 100% positive hes terrible. i watched every single one of his 7 starts in 2006, all 12 of them in 2007, and all 16 of them in 2008. thats 35 games ive watched him play quarterback. i dont want him to fail, i want him to be our savior, but im not blind enough to think so. 35 games is enough to know what weve got, and what weve got is a career backup game manager who wont throw picks but will never make any big plays or lead us anywhere. hes just a below average QB. he belongs on a team that has a rabid defense like the bears of the ravens. he will never succeed on this team and frankly im surprised that some of you are still holding out hope after 35 friggin games.

and i remember winning the sig bet about our defense not making 2/3 of those goals, and we still have the same problems as we did and always will. no pass rush, no turnovers = overrated defense. but thats for another thread. in regards to campbell, ive seen enough. time to see something else for me. and thats hardly impatient, ive seen 35 games, and all of them look similar to me. the occassional 2 TD game with 250 yards, but usually its short throws, 1 TD every other game, and our coaching staff leaning on portis to run 30 times a game.

that is a recipe for mediocrity, which is where we currently sit.

the OL only has problems when Campbell can't get it done? I already showed you, through various stats, that both CP and JC weren't getting it done later in the season, as injuries and wear and tear were taking their toll on the line. I guess the OL giving up 7 sacks in 1 game is somehow Campbell "not getting it done." And no, I wouldn't make excuses for the next 10 seasons. However, if JC were here for the next 10 seasons it would likely mean you were wrong about him. Of course, I'm not saying Campbell is the greatest and will be our franchise QB for years to come, all I've ever said is he has shown he can do well at this level, and that he has improved each season. You are the one talking in absolutes, like always, and you should have learned by now not to give up on our players and team.

Now on to the debacle you've created with game day scenarios. So Portis was averaging 4.5 against Dallas, but he only had 16 carries because we had to pass more? Huh? And part of the reason CP didn't get as many carries is because he was injured. Betts couldn't do jack in his place. If CP had stayed healthy and the run game hadn't flaked out as the OL wore down due to age and injury, we probably would have had a better record.

However, just like with matters concerning the FO, you're mind is made up and you will only talk in absolutes, and you won't consider any evidence to the contrary of what you say (like the injuries to the OL, and the decline in production from CP and JC all occurring around the same time), rather you'll focus in on 1 or 2 individual items as damning evidence, rather than look at the whole picture. The OL and WRs didn't help JC out much this past season, and the run game crapped out just like the OL did once injuries and wear and tear set in.

And again, the TD numbers don't tell the whole story. JC typically didn't have ample time to do a 3-5 step drop and pass, yet somehow he's supposed to overcome crappy blocking when he's in the redzone? Low TD #s are on the whole offense, not just the QB. It's a team effort, yet you'd rather centralize you're disappointment in the Skins into one convenient scapegoat.

And with your comments on the Bengals game it becomes more obvious that's what you are doing. I mentioned CP's abysmal performance that game, the turnovers that led to the other team scoring, and the big plays our D gave up, and you simply respond "Campbell didn't get it done." Give me a break. It's not just about the QB. The team basically had given up at that point, you could see it in their play. In fact, one of the few players I saw out there still trying was Campbell. JC was our offense against the 49ers. He put that last game on his back, and his team just crapped out on him.

Yes, completion percentage isn't great if the YPP is low. Campbell averaged 6 that game, close to his year avg of 6.4, which puts him in the company of Eli Manning and Brett Favre, I guess all they do is throw check downs as well.

And the sad thing is you are thoroughly convinced Campbell is not the guy because you haven't seen team results. JC has improved, statistically, each season. I wonder if after 35 games you would have given up on guys like Aikman and Elway, whose stats were similar, or worse than, JC's at this point. I'm looking at the whole team, the surrounding talent, as well as JC. You are just looking at JC and chalking up any discussion about his teammates as "excuses" despite the fact their performance is related to JC.

And I remember the sig bet was a little too optimistic, and I said so but went along with it any ways. That was an avatar bet though. I also remember having my own sig bet with the link in my sig all season that the Skins would be a top 10 D again in '07, and I listed many reasons why, and went into detail, you know, rather than give up on them completely, focusing in on 1 stat that doesn't tell the whole story, speaking in absolutes.

[elkabong82]

Why is it fruitless? Campbell has among the lowest TD totals in the league. Do we have the worst system in the entire league? Per game, Campbell is 36 out of 41 QBs this year.

The Raiders averaged 148 passing yards a game and their QBs still put up more TD's then Campbell.

Campbell's completion % or low turnover rate puts him above some other QBs, but can you really fault someone for putting their foot down on the TD statistic? Its pretty bad.

But Elway won football games. He went 13-3 in his second season and went to back to back Superbowls in his fourth and fifth seasons. Losing of course... WOOT! :logo:

People were knocking him on a different level, like they used to knock Peyton Manning.

Plenty of people said it about Campbell last year, but we were too busy calling them haters.

I'm starting to listen.

We finished with a better record than the Raiders, so yes I can fault someone for focusing solely on TD passes, because it doesn't tell the whole story. Our WRs suck at getting separation, they don;t do what the big, physical receivers like Fitz, Plax, TO, etc. do. Like I said, when was the last time we had a great WR in here? Everyone wants to discuss the drought at Qb< well what about the one at WR? This team has had trouble scoring in the redzone before Campbell was even a starter. If the QB is playing solid, mistake-free football, then I don't have a problem with him only throwing 1 TD in a game. Heck, Roethlisberger typically does that, but he has a consistent ground attack and a turnover-creating D to hang his hat on. Our QB has 1 good RB to rely on, who gets banged up and has RBs behind him who really can't get it done. Our QB has smallish receivers to throw to, both of whom were injured throughout the season, again.

The knock on Elway was he didn't have enough around him to get it done. What happened when Elway had a run game to compliment him?

Plenty of people were saying it about Campbell last year because we were losing games. Very few were saying it about JC in between the Giants and Steelers games. But many were saying it once we started losing again. The QB is a centralizing figure, and people tend to forget you have to look at the whole team. JC has improved each season, so I'm not going to give up on him. How quickly those who have given up on JC conveniently forget all the talk surrounding JC when we were 6-2, and how quiet all of them were on here. The second the team falters, they are back on here to pounce on their whipping boy, rather than try and identify true weaknesses. JC has areas he needs to improve for sure, but he is not a detriment to this team, IMO.

[elkabong82]

elkabong knows damn well i was on the campbell wagon last season and most of this season, but there comes a point where i cant watch anymore of the same nonsense and honestly believe something will change.

campbell just isnt good, plain and simple. no scheme, no pro bowl receivers, no nothing is going to make him any better.

How do you know those improvements won't make him better? They made Warner better, they made Eli better, etc. Again you are talking in absolutes while venting out frystrations. It's nothing new with you, but I thought you would have learned a lesson about speaking in absolutes after being wrong so much. You can say, "in my opinion", or "I think", and you are simply giving an opinion. You are trying to state your opinion as fact, and you are already admittedly biased in the matter because you've given up hope with JC, so nothing you hear is going to matter. It's pretty awful to be so closed off. Once the Skins start winning again you'll be on here singing a different tune like always.

[ttr77]

The knock on Elway was he didn't have enough around him to get it done. What happened when Elway had a run game to compliment him?

If JC was able to get the Skins to 3 Super Bowls with no supporting cast, any criticism of him would be completely unwarranted. As it was when Elway did it. At this point we're just wondering if JC can get this team above .500 with the current supporting cast.

[elkabong82]

If JC was able to get the Skins to 3 Super Bowls with no supporting cast, any criticism of him would be completely unwarranted. As it was when Elway did it. At this point we're just wondering if JC can get this team above .500 with the current supporting cast.

Agreed, I was simply using Elway as an example of what a QB can acheive when his supporting cast is improved. I also used Elway because for a large part of his career he had low TD #s. He broke 20 TDs in a season just 1 time in his first 10 seasons in the league, his career passer rating is below 80 (79.9). Elway didn't put up HOF stats until the '93 season and on, when he started getting a better supporting cast.

With the current supporting cast JC could have, had he made his strides earlier in the season. JC became a solid game manager this season, but also became a QB who can make plays on his own with his feet. He showed that in the final game where he basically was the offense. If not for a couple fo botched games, the Skins could have finished above .500 with JC leading them. This current team is too old on the lines now, so if the current team has a new OT or OG starting next season, and a reliable WR target other than Moss, then JC won't have any excuses. JC has the potential to flourish in the WCO, IMO, because he showed it in the first half of the season. I hope we can get better talent around him so we can truly see what he is capable of. If JC doesn't improve with an improved roster, or worse, regresses, then goodbye, I have no problem seeing another QB come in. But I'm not going to write him off simply because some people on here are saying he isn't getting "it" done. "It" typically meaning we didn't win enough games and the poster would rather attach conveneint rhetoric than look at all aspects of a team game.