McShay new mock draft -- 2/2

[Dick Edds]

Agree completely.

DT and OT are much bigger concerns sitting at the #13 spot.

Orakpo would play where for us exactly? He's only about 260-265, at his weight he's best suited to play right end, which is where we have Carter already. If he was 20 pounds heavier and could play left end, great. But that's not the case.

DE still isn't that big a concern for us either I don't think. Even if we let Taylor go, I believe in Carter and Evans to get the job done if they're given some serious DT help (paging Raji or Peria Jerry).

agreed as well, we need a top flight DT or the next best OL we can find, and if we can't find any trading partners I would be fine with taking the next highest rated OL'man. Of course I am not suggesting we reach by a round on a player, but NEED has to override Vinny's BPA board to an extent. Then again, it is a much more urgent that we get some competition and depth on the OL, or at the DT spot ... IMO of course.

[jweisk1]

McShay I recall was in the ball park with his mock last year, at least the ones he did closer to the draft. Him Kiper and Mayock are often wrong as to which teams picks whom, but they are rarely way off in terms of giving a ball park idea to where the players are picked.

All of those guys said figuring who chooses whom is tough so they focus on the buzz over how the players are regarded and put more stock to where the players fall than which teams picks them. One thing strikes me about the 2nd round, you have people on the board in love with Duke Robinson. McShay has him in the late 2nd.

I do think there is a decent chance based on Vinny's rhetoric that the Skins end up picking late 1st or having two second rounders so that part of the draft might not end up irrelevant. Vinny talked about trading down before last year's draft and got it done, he's talking now again about doing it.

Yeah I could see us trading down this year again...I think the Giants have 2 second round picks...not sure the valuation of each pick but maybe a trade for there 1st and a late second early 3rd...

[MattFancy]

I do think there is a decent chance based on Vinny's rhetoric that the Skins end up picking late 1st or having two seconds. Vinny talked about trading down before last year's draft and got it done, he's talking now again about doing it.

I would love for us to trade down, but I see a problem with that. If Vinny is annoucing to everyone that we want to trade down in the 1st, I'm worried we won't get great value for that trade because people will not give us a fair deal since they know we don't want to pick there anyway. I hope if we do trade down, we get good value like we did last year. We shouldn't trade down for the sake of trading down if we can still address a need with our 1st pick.

[TGI Jef]

i have come to the conclusion that all i want out of this pick is one of the following:

1a. the best OT left on the board

1b. a PLAYMAKING defensive lineman.

by PLAYMAKING, i don't even mean a guy who is "decent against the run" or "clogs the middle" (though a 900 lb DT would certainly help).

i think it is high time that the Redskins finally set their sights on a guy who - on every single play - is a threat to maul the QB and force a fumble.

and we have to be patient and keep in mind that often times this might be a guy who is very raw but has a huge upside.

we need upgrades at A LOT of positions, but there is a difference between a good player and a playmaker. i thought Jason Taylor was going to be a playmaker but it didnt work out.

while a guy who can play a solid role on a good defense is always nice, it's time for us to try and find a DL who is going to at all times be one play away from changing the ballgame completely.

it sucks to say it, but i am finally ready to be patient and root for the Redskins and not just players i have grown accustomed to cheering for. if we have to clean house and get a bunch of young guys who could turn into these playmakers, so be it. but lets get a player at #13 who we can hopefully turn into the cornerstone of a dominant unit down the road.

if we get that guy or a top tier OT i will be a happy fan.

[Skinsinparadise]

I would love for us to trade down, but I see a problem with that. If Vinny is annoucing to everyone that we want to trade down in the 1st, I'm worried we won't get great value for that trade because people will not give us a fair deal since they know we don't want to pick there anyway. I hope if we do trade down, we get good value like we did last year.

Agree though last draft he practically put up a billboard that he wanted to trade down, too. Vinny doesn't seem to play everything close to the vest with the draft.

In terms of all of those who seemed stunned by those receiver picks -- keep in mind its not as if Vinny didn't have a billboard out on that one, too. We kept hearing those trade rumors for Chad Johnson. Then Campbell was out there throwing the ball to Kelly pre-draft. Vinny didn't disguise his interest in that position. We arguably heard more about that position than any other back then. Go back a season before I recall reading how much they liked Bowe and Campbell worked out with him.

The good news IMO here is pretty simple. Last year Vinny was talking receiver. This time I have heard him beat mostly one drum, protecting the passer, and an improved pass rush. Beyond that I recall him mentioning how LB is a good position in this draft. So all those that expect Vinny to do something different, I doubt it. For the people here that tout that the lines are everything. Vinny is singing the same song, and he rarely goes off script so am expecting him to address close to exactly what he's talking about -- becuase that seems to be his pattern.

[Wyndorf25]

Why draft a 3-4 tweener when the Skins run a 4-3? Personally, I would love to see a transition to a 3-4 defense because I think that when run effectively with the right personnel, the 3-4 is a better defense in a pass-heavy league. If the Skins are going to stick with the 4-3, then Orakpo will be too small to play DE and too slow to play LB IMO. I would rather see Otah or another T or G at this spot if not a DT.

Also, Raji had a "dominant effort in the Senior Bowl"? I watched that game and did not see Raji do much of anything except make a few tackles on the RB after a gain of 4 or 5 yards. Don't get me wrong, I would love to get this guy if he is there at #13 but I have to admit that I was hoping to see more disruption from him during that game.

[Dick Edds]

i think it is high time that the Redskins finally set their sights on a guy who - on every single play - is a threat to maul the QB and force a fumble.

I am right there with you on this, I really hope we are due to hit on one of these premier play-makers. This type of players make everyone else around them better.

Although I prefer OL or DT ... if we do take Orakpo (or Curry) and they turn out to be that type of play maker, I will be a happy camper.

I keep thinking, we really are only one dominant defensive player away from being a GREAT defense, and not just a statistically good defense. Fingers crossed, hail.

[IrepDC]

I am hoping Raji has a horrible combine and he falls to us

[jweisk1]

I keep thinking, we really are only one dominant defensive player away from being a GREAT defense, and not just a statistically good defense. Fingers crossed, hail.

I dont agree 100% with you here...I think we are a few years (maybe 2 years) from being a GREAT defense...I do think we have a GREAT secondary, maybe the best in the NFL, however we gameplan every game to mask our weakness...i.e front 7...

This is also why, run heavy teams who play physical will always dominate us (Steelers/Giants/Ravens) and why we can hang with teams that rely on their passing attack (Saints/Cards/Eagles)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We have a need at DL, OL, and LB...if we cannot trade down (remember, someone has to be willing to give you fair value), then we should take the best player available at any one of those positions.

A LB that can rush the passer (like Harrison or Porter) would be a very dynamic player on an already-good defense.

[HitStickTaylor21]

I would not be happy with Orakpo, I want offensive line or DT. Orakpo could very well be there at 13, especially if Aaron Maybin goes first.

[Dick Edds]

I dont agree 100% with you here...I think we are a few years (maybe 2 years) from being a GREAT defense...I do think we have a GREAT secondary, maybe the best in the NFL, however we gameplan every game to mask our weakness...i.e front 7...

This is also why, run heavy teams who play physical will always dominate us (Steelers/Giants/Ravens) and why we can hang with teams that rely on their passing attack (Saints/Cards/Eagles)

I see you're point, and I guess the term "great" is relative and I should have been more clear. I should have also mentioned that keeping DHall and Rogers to lock down our secondary, is a major part of that.

I guess if I had to explain in more detail I would say one big time play maker at the DT spot would help us even more in the run game and the turnover game, add another play maker at LB and I think we have the recipe to be top 5, provided the rest of our squad stays relatively healthy.

[JimmyConway]

If the team keeps the pick (I think they should try to trade down for the right deal), pick the best player available. I'd love to get Raji here, but I really doubt he'll be around. Ditto Curry. Orakpo would be a tremendous upgrade at DE (I still see him there as opposed to OLB) and bring speed on the edge, which helps the entire D. I'd be just fine with this pick.

I think the OTs we might want at #13 won't be available and I do not believe in picking an OT at #13 just to pick an OT. That's senseless. Very good O-linemen can be drafted later.

I agree with you Ernie. Although I would love for us to draft one of the big four OT I wouldn't want to reach for one. If we have to decide between Orakpo and one of the top three OT I wouldn't mind Orakpo.

Orakpo is in the same mold as Ware/Umenyiora. They're playmakers that can play all over the field. Just because he doesn't fit the traditional 4-3 DE mold doesn't mean we should pass on him.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Orakpo is in the same mold as Ware/Umenyiora. They're playmakers that can play all over the field. Just because he doesn't fit the traditional 4-3 DE mold doesn't mean we should pass on him.

Exactly, there is an expectation that our staff will scheme and gameplan to put talented players in a position to make plays. It's a coach's responsibility to be creative and put players in a position to succeed.

Look at Pittsburgh...you never know which players are coming and which players are dropping back into coverage.

I'm not against an OL or DL by any stretch of the imagination...but if this guy is the best player there at 13, we could certainly use a good LB too! Keep in mind, LB is the most versatile position on the field. They can help stop the run, rush the passer, and defend passing lanes.

[jweisk1]

I see you're point, and I guess the term "great" is relative and I should have been more clear. I should have also mentioned that keeping DHall and Rogers to lock down our secondary, is a major part of that.

I guess if I had to explain in more detail I would say one big time play maker at the DT spot would help us even more in the run game and the turnover game, add another play maker at LB and I think we have the recipe to be top 5, provided the rest of our squad stays relatively healthy.

Good point as well! A lot is going to depend on who we keep and who we release...if we can sign or keep 2 of these guys D.Hall/Springs/Los our secondary should be in very good shape...I am not 100% sold on Horton (I know everyone on this board loves him) but time will tell...of course I hope he is great next year, I just think he had a very fortunate year (he does play without of heart, which I love though)

Also lets say we keep JT and he takes a pay-cut and produces 10-12 sacks along with a good young DT, and maybe a FA linebacker, we could be on the right track to becoming a GREAT defense...I just think we are a few years away though...:2cents:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Good point as well! A lot is going to depend on who we keep and who we release...if we can sign or keep 2 of these guys D.Hall/Springs/Los our secondary should be in very good shape...I am not 100% sold on Horton (I know everyone on this board loves him) but time will tell...of course I hope he is great next year, I just think he had a very fortunate year (he does play without of heart, which I love though)

Also lets say we keep JT and he takes a pay-cut and produces 10-12 sacks along with a good young DT, and maybe a FA linebacker, we could be on the right track to becoming a GREAT defense...I just think we are a few years away though...:2cents:

I agree with all of this. Horton is an above-average to good safety. That might be all we need there with Landry and our CBs though. It would be nice if we can pencil in a 7th-round pick as a 10-year starter next to Landry!

As for Taylor, I'd just rather let him go. I don't know that he'll get us 10 sacks with the way we use him.

[Gregpeck99]

This guy is a jerk ... Orakpo is a project ...Grab Maualooga or trade down ... DUHHHHHHHHHHH!

[santana_4_prez]

Part of me thinks no matter who we have at DE might not be effective until we have someone at DT who can blow the line up? Am I wrong?

[jweisk1]

I agree with all of this. Horton is an above-average to good safety. That might be all we need there with Landry and our CBs though. It would be nice if we can pencil in a 7th-round pick as a 10-year starter next to Landry!

As for Taylor, I'd just rather let him go. I don't know that he'll get us 10 sacks with the way we use him.

With good LB/DB or DT core, an average player can appear to look a lot better than he really is...I think Horton falls into this category....system players

I live in baltimore :doh: and the media here always talks about Jim Lenoard (he replaced Dawan Landry after he was hurt), well he had an above average stat year, a few sacks/INT...however the media seems to beleive that he is the second coming of Ronnie Lott...the point is that when you play with a unit that is SO dominant, any average player can look like a superstar...just ask our old buddy Adam Archuleta

and your right about JT...10-12 sacks from him is very very wishful thinking..

[SkinsTerps26]

Part of me thinks no matter who we have at DE might not be effective until we have someone at DT who can blow the line up? Am I wrong?

HAYNESWORTH!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

With good LB/DB or DT core, an average player can appear to look a lot better than he really is...I think Horton falls into this category....system players

I live in baltimore :doh: and the media here always talks about Jim Lenoard (he replaced Dawan Landry after he was hurt), well he had an above average stat year, a few sacks/INT...however the media seems to beleive that he is the second coming of Ronnie Lott...the point is that when you play with a unit that is SO dominant, any average player can look like a superstar...just ask our old buddy Adam Archuleta

and your right about JT...10-12 sacks from him is very very wishful thinking..

Exactly. If you look at the good teams, they don't have GREAT players at all 11 positions on offense and defense. They have some studs and a good supporting cast. If Horton ever becomes a stud, great. But we only need him to fit in as a supporting cast member with the talent we have around him in some areas.

[Never4get#21]

He would be a good addition. When you look at this team, the one glaring problem with the defense was pressure on the QB. I agree with most that we need a stud DT that will draw the double and close gaps, but we also need youth at DE. Carter is ok, but he was just as bad as JT last year and he had no excuses for it. We need a stud DE. Could we still get a starting DT in the 3rd? Yes.

We can try to fix the issues on this team in one offseason, but the reality is we have more then just OL/BT/LB issues. Next season it maybe QB/CB/WR. As long as we address areas of need im good. If Vinny pulls a QB/WR I blow a gasket!

[Dick Edds]

Part of me thinks no matter who we have at DE might not be effective until we have someone at DT who can blow the line up? Am I wrong?

I think you are dead on ... we need a pocket collapsing DT.

[IbleedBnG83]

This mother ****er still has us taking Orakpo. **** that. I would be pissed.

[Mr. Grundle]

Orakpo is the kind of "workout warrior" type whose stock will rise after the combine. Not to say that he isn't a good player, but after the combine he will be a lock to go top 10.