Vinny at senior bowl

[ToaCommander]

Vinny's scouting Rey seems like he is comtemplating trading back to mid 1st and possibly mid 2nd. I don't think we will take Rey M @ 13. It seems too high especially with word that Rey's stock is falling due to average/poor performance on senior bowl drills.

I hope we still wait for one of the Big 4 @ 13 even if we get a average OT in FA. If they are all gone, trade back to mid-late 1st and we still might land Peria Jones with the 1st pick and the extra 2nd pick on Loadholt/Unger??

[SkinsAllDay34]

Man the guy got interviewed an everybody is making assumptions.

Vinny is probably interview everybody...i mean he did have Jamarcus Russell come in for a workout before the draft. They will look at everbody.

Its still January too people.

I am waiting til FA and then i will get a feel for what positions we need to address.

[str8jacket]

I don't mind them keeping their options open. But i really do want an o lineman or bj raji with that pick.

[Mercuryrising]

Why would the Skins be interested in a player who is dropping? The Draft is a giant over-rated crap shoot hyped for purposes of TV. It makes more sense for Skins to trade No. 1 for a proven veteran.

Yep, getting Vets is a sure fire thing.

Bruce Smith

Sean Gilbert

Mark Brunnell

Archelletta

B Lloyd

Stanley Richards

Brandon Noble

Screw the draft!

[Mercuryrising]

So funny! Last year the depth was at OT according to Vinny, we had 10 picks, and an incredible need on the OL, and yet we landed only 1 offensive lineman (and that was an OT not suited for OT, but rather OG, at this level). Vinny is immune to logic.

Let the rationalizations begin as to why we should go OLB rather than OT or OG+OC in this draft, as well.

I'll start it for you. OL don't sell Redskins Jerseys to 13-24 year-old's. Flashy, over-hyped LBs WRs and Safetys do. Snyder rule #1; Know your market and pander to the lowest denominator.

[SkinsFTW]

I fully expect the Redskins to forget the needs and draft what they want. A LB, WR, CB, S.

Considering that Snyder/Cerrato have NEVER drafted DL/OL with their first pick this is almost a no brainer.

[TheLongshot]

I fully expect the Redskins to forget the needs and draft what they want. A LB, WR, CB, S.

I guess you don't realize that LB is a need.

Considering that Snyder/Cerrato have NEVER drafted DL/OL with their first pick this is almost a no brainer.

I guess you also have forgotten about Chris Samuels as well. :doh:

[illone]

Rey might slip to 13.

Nothing wrong with that pick IMO.

[Siven]

Vinny sucks at picking talent. He claims last year was deep with OT's? Why didn't we get a couple?

Jake Long taken first overall

Ryan Clady taken 12th overall

Chris Williams taken 14th overall

Brandon Albert taken 15th overall

Gosder Cherilus taken 17th overall

Jeff Otah taken 19th overall

Sam Baker taken 21st overall

Duane Brown taken 26th overall

8 first round tackles.

We took receivers because we desperately needed people for campbell to throw the ball to.

I gurantee that if Albert dropped to 21st, he'd be in burgundy and gold.

[Siven]

Rey might slip to 13.

Nothing wrong with that pick IMO.

nothing at all. If the team thinks Rey is going to be a future hall of famer, you take him regardless of what your needs are.

I'd rather address a lesser need with a impact player, then take a tackle that isn't that great just because we need a tackle.

that being said, I personally would like to see us address the offensive line. I would be find with getting an impact defensive FA like Suggs or Haynesworth, but then I would like to see us trade back, draft a Loadholdt, Robinson/Herman Johnson, Alex Mack. That would be massive for us.

we could be looking at, Samuels, Robinson, Mack, Rinehardt, Loadholdt. that's an intimidating offensive line and would make our offense exceptionally better.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Can someone get on to the Mobile tourist office and get them to sell the, uhmm, "delights" of AL to the said Vinny?

I'm sure I could find enough backers on here to make it MORE than worth their while if a certain V.Cerrato took up permanent residence down there.

Meh, I know, I need to stop daydreaming aloud. :cool:

Hail.

[Never4get#21]

I'll give him some credit atleast he's evaulating a team need which is LB. I expected a writeup about another WR.

Now for stories about RT and DT.

[Skinsinparadise]

I followed last year's draft like crazy and in terms of O line I recall Baker being regarded by most a 2nd rounder and Duane Brown a 2nd or 3rd rounder but teams picked them earlier than expected in the first, which seemed to be a surprise to many. The stud lineman at least based on draft geek consensus were gone by the time the Skins picked.

My gut is that Cerrato DID want to go O line if one of those elite players were available, I recall reading for example how closely they looked at and liked Branden Albert for example, and how they liked Brown in the 2nd round if he were available.

Now we have all watched the Redskins offense for years now, does it really seem from Mars that Vinny would think enough is enough with the pathetic passing game and not having a secondary option for Santana, especially if the elite blockers were already picked?

Look personally, I wouldn't have gone receivers all the way in the 2nd round but its not as if Cerrato was drafting a position of strength, WR is a big time weakness. Maybe we didn't need a second TE but I can see the logic there too, the team stank in the red zone and I recall Pete Carrol's comment about Davis "he's a touchdown machine". And other teams with elite TEs have also recently drafted a 2nd TE in the early rounds.

Last year pre draft they did say they are looking at receivers. He did talk about the O line, too and did draft one in the third round. But yeah I didn't see any obvious O line picks in the 2nd that he passed on. As for the D line, you got Calais Campbell he passed on, but he was regarded as a boom/bust type. They had Calais' old college coach on staff, and I gather if they thought this guy would be a stud, they'd draft him. His career is still young but as far as I understand, he didn't do much this season.

I am not a big Vinny fan, I don't think he's a Matt Millan clone like some do on this board, just think he's so so. Some good decisions, some bad decisions. He usually doesn't do things radically different than what he says. The Wr's picks didn't come out of the blue last draft, we all read about them scouting those guys especially Kelly. This time he's talking O line and LB, so am guessing that's the concentration and maybe DT.

But IMO if you dissect the draft as to the Redskins passing people up, here's what I recall, and if someone remembers something different let me know.

They could have kept their 21st and drafted Sam Baker. And of all options that you can kill Vinny on this is the one that makes the most sense. Baker could turn into a good Tackle but still the draft geeks at the time thought he would be around in the 2nd round.

They could have drafted Phillip Merling or Duane Brown, Merling though was dropping down the draft though and clearly teams saw him as a 2nd rounder where he was drafted. Brown was arguably the surprise pick of the first round going 26. Do I fault Vinny there? Nope.

They drafted at 34. Merling, Baker and Brown are gone. Who is the stud O lineman here that Vinny is passing on? Nobody. You got Rachel as a guard and Pollak as a center drafted in this round but nobody was shouting about these guys as special. And NO O tackles were taken.

Next they draft at 48 and 51. Again no O lineman really. You can argue some defensive players like Calais should have been considered, but clearly they weren't sold on him, clearly a lot of other teams weren't either. Maybe you can argue they should have taken DT, Trevor Laws with their first or maybe LB Groves, but Groves was considered by many a 3/4 guy.

IMO, I don't see an obvious boneheaded decision where they passed on an obvious stud O lineman or D lineman from the positions they picked, especially O line in the 2nd round, there really was IMO no one exciting at all on the O line once they moved to the 2nd round. IMO if you hit Vinny its why these pass catchers over others like Royal?

But I don't see how you can hit Vinny specifically on the last draft on the theory that they should have drafted on the line without getting into specifics because the draft plays out very specifically. Is not like every position is interchangeable with equal quality at each point in the draft, if it were IMO the draft would be darn boring!

Vinny should hold onto his picks and stop making dumb trades and in previous drafts he should have worked the lines more. But as to the last draft, I agree with Casserly's assessment of what Vinny did, which is he played it out the way the cards were dealt, and the cards didn't flow to the O line. I bet for example when they got all those 2nd rounders they thought they would nail Duane Brown with one of them.

So I give him a pass on the O line in the last draft. Keep in mind what did Vinny do in the third round after getting through the barren 2nd round for lineman -- he drafted a lineman!

[fansince62]

But I don't see how you can hit Vinny specifically on the last draft on the theory that they should have drafted on the line without getting into specifics because the draft plays out very specifically. Is not like every position is interchangeable with equal quality at each point in the draft, if it were IMO the draft would be darn boring!

Vinny should hold onto his picks and stop making dumb trades and in previous drafts he should have worked the lines more. But as to the last draft, I agree with Casserly's assessment of what Vinny did, which is he played it out the way the cards were dealt, and the cards didn't flow to the O line. I bet for example when they got all those 2nd rounders they thought they would nail Duane Brown with one of them.

So I give him a pass on the O line in the last draft. Keep in mind what did Vinny do in the third round after getting through the barren 2nd round for lineman -- he drafted a lineman!

so you draft one kid who is a head case, another who can't walk and a last who apparently isn't the sharpest tack in the box?

[Chump Bailey]

I followed last year's draft like crazy and in terms of O line I recall Baker being regarded by most a 2nd rounder and Duane Brown a 2nd or 3rd rounder but teams picked them earlier than expected in the first, which seemed to be a surprise to many.

That was not my experience - there was plenty of buzz surrounding both of them, but especially Brown.

I'm not passing judgement yet with regard to last year's draft. I think we got some good players. I did not like Tryon in the 4th or Brooks - I also think Jason Jones would have been a smart selection. It will be interesting to see what VC does come April

[Skinsinparadise]

That was not my experience - there was plenty of buzz surrounding both of them, but especially Brown.

I'm not passing judgement yet with regard to last year's draft. I think we got some good players. I did not like Tryon in the 4th or Brooks - I also think Jason Jones would have been a smart selection. It will be interesting to see what VC does come April

I am talking about Kiper, Mayock, draft magazines, all the draft geeks and I recall the buzz toward him, don't know what you mean by your own personal experience, but I don't believe you will find ONE draft magainze, mock draft, anything that had him going in the first round. At least, I don't recall any. Yeah there was a buzz becuase he was a converted TE, with good athletic skills even though he was bit raw, and be a nice pick in the 2nd round, some said third. Don't recall ANY mention of him being a first rounder.

so you draft one kid who is a head case, another who can't walk and a last who apparently isn't the sharpest tack in the box?

I hear you but with all respect, if that's your comment about my post, you didn't read it that closely. You are making my point. I said if you fault Vinny IMO its picking a Thomas over a Royal. But I can't see what offensive lineman he passed over in the 2nd round, that was my point.

[Oldskool]

Rey might slip to 13.

Nothing wrong with that pick IMO.

The GM's of Green Bay and Denver would have have to be negligent to let the best ILB in the class pass them by if Rey gets to 13, especially since both teams are in the process of getting the personnel needed for their 3-4 defenses this year.

[Dick Edds]

... IMO if you hit Vinny its why these pass catchers over others like Royal?

... But I don't see how you can hit Vinny specifically on the last draft on the theory that they should have drafted on the line without getting into specifics because the draft plays out very specifically. Is not like every position is interchangeable with equal quality at each point in the draft ...

... But as to the last draft, I agree with Casserly's assessment of what Vinny did, which is he played it out the way the cards were dealt, and the cards didn't flow to the O line. I bet for example when they got all those 2nd rounders they thought they would nail Duane Brown with one of them.

I think these are the important points of your argument that are easily overlooked by folks like JLC and the media ... and by all accounts, JLC seems clearly a "draft for need" proponent ... IMO it is a combination of BPA/Need, and then that is given weight to each player you have the ability to draft when it is your turn t pick.

Nice work.

[Skinsinparadise]

That was not my experience - there was plenty of buzz surrounding both of them, but especially Brown.

To back up my point about Brown, yeah again he was liked but I recall no mention or any mock draft having him go in the first.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+South/Houston/Features/2008/wilky072508.htm

Texans sign first-round pick Brown

By PFW staff

July 25, 2008

The Texans signed first-round pick Duane Brown on the eve of their first training-camp practice Friday, ensuring the young left tackle will be on the field and competing with veteran Ephraim Salaam for a starting job. Terms of Brown's deal were not disclosed.

The 6-4, 308-pound Brown was a surprise first-round pick to many draft observers, but the Texans believe he is a strong fit in Alex Gibbs' zone-blocking scheme. Indeed, Gibbs' input played a strong role in the club's decision to select Brown, who only played three years at Virginia Tech at tackle after beginning his career at tight end.

by all accounts, JLC seems clearly a "draft for need" proponent ... IMO it is a combination of BPA/Need, and then that is given weight to each player you have the ability to draft when it is your turn t pick.

Nice work.

Thanks, yeah again if people want to hit Vinny for the specific players he picked, I don't per se agree with it from the stand point that MOST Wr's take their time to develop but its not unfair IMO to do it. On the surface, it looks like at least one of these guys is going to be a bust but will see. It's a pretty hard position to pull off.

But when it comes to the logic of trading down, few of us criticized it at the time, actually even JLC I recalled thought it was smart. Once we had those picks in the 2nd, what OT should the Redskins have picked? And if they should have picked one, EVERY other team in the NFL screwed up too since they didn't take an OT either. And we all know the Redskins are not the only team in the NFL that needs to upgrade the line.

The kicker for me is as soon as they moved to the third round, Vinny did draft a lineman. Now if we go back 3 seasons ago the line was pretty good, two seasons ago was arguably the first where it was clear where we needed to upgrade, and that's where IMO it should have started if not sooner, but last draft it just didn't flow that way, but I don't see any indication that Vinny doesn't recognize it as a problem.

We IMO are crying over spilled milk from the past. As to Vinny not getting its a problem. He has said it is a problem. I do believe that he wanted to draft an O lineman last time but as I spelled out, it didn't flow that way, but he still drafted one in the third, some saying Rinehart was a reach for a third rounder. So it shows some desparation for that position. But yeah looking at the 2nd round don't get where Vinny passed over some obvious stud O lineman.

This is my way of saying I'd be surprised if the "please please please draft a lineman" crowd are dissapointed. By all indications I think he will pull the trigger in the draft and FA.

[TheLongshot]

To back up my point about Brown, yeah again he was liked but I recall no mention or any mock draft having him go in the first.

Yeah, even JLC was thinking he was going to be a 3rd or 4th round pick, but you never know where teams have players rated.

We IMO are crying over spilled milk from the past. As to Vinny not getting its a problem. He has said it is a problem. I do believe that he wanted to draft an O lineman last time but as I spelled out, it didn't flow that way, but he still drafted one in the third, some saying Rinehart was a reach for a third rounder. So it shows some desparation for that position. But yeah looking at the 2nd round don't get where Vinny passed over some obvious stud O lineman.

As I said above, calling a pick a reach is somewhat debateable, since we are depending on the "draft experts" ratings as to where players SHOULD go. Problem is, team's draft boards are not based on these ratings, but their own internal rating system. Also, when these "experts" say that they could have gotten a certain player later, they don't really know.

As for the OL, I think if we had more picks in 2007, we probably would have selected an OL with one of those picks. That's probably the first time in a while I could see this team being justified in picking an OL high. Before then, it made more sense to take late stabs at developmental prospects, because there was just no place to supplant someone, both with ability and with contract numbers.

This is my way of saying I'd be surprised if the "please please please draft a lineman" crowd are dissapointed. By all indications I think he will pull the trigger in the draft and FA.

I think people forget that Vinny helped build most of this line, which involved a combination of both signing players and drafting them. He didn't do such a bad job.

[zackmills]

Vinny was on Redskins Nation today, meaning he's not longing in Mobile...ugh.

[Reaganaut]

The Skins will pick right if it's on defense and wrong if it's on offense.

[turbodiesel#44]

Vinny should be academically disqualified from attending any Senior Bowl.

[zCommander]

If you are a Vinny hater and a Colt lover, how would your opinion of Vinny change if Colt (who Vinny snagged in the 6th rd) did indeed turn out to be as great as you think he is?

Ah, it was Zorn who wanted Colt if he was still on the board.

[SkinsFTW]

I guess you don't realize that LB is a need.

I guess you also have forgotten about Chris Samuels as well. :doh:

I guess that you forgot that Samuels was the 2nd pick. Arrington was the first. Get it right before you throw in the :doh: next time smart guy.

LB is never as much of a need as DL or OL. Just look at the guys starting for the Giants, and Eagles and a lot of other winning teams. They don't have to have 3 Pro Bowlers at LB.