Anyone else miss ole Joe?

[footballhenry]

So I'm sitting here watching old highlights of the Bears/Skins game from a year ago and can't help but miss the old ball coach (no not Spurrier). Say what you want but Gibbs brought us back to respectability; the team never quit under him. We saw two heart-felt and hard fought finishes by this team in 05 and 07 under his leadership. I really did like Zorn at first, but after thinking his methods through alot the past couple weeks compared with Gibbs...there really i a stark contrast between the two and how they handle adversity. I know we can easily criticize Gibbs for being 'conservative' but by God the man knew how to get the most from his players. Nothing new really in this thread so not sure if it should be merged or not...just wanted to say that as a young Redskin fan that has witnessed the best seasons as '05 and '07 (better than the year we lost to the Bucs in the playoffs, imho simply because of the heart displayed)...that I miss Joe Gibb and wish he was at least a part of the organization again (perhaps as President? ala Parcells in Miami?).

[footballhenry]

**on a side note** we should have given Collins another shot...after watching some of last seasons highlights its clear that the man has a quick release, and deadly accuracy (i know he doesnt have the power but thats not all that counts in the NFL) even in the face of pressure, in fact if anyone looks back at the Bears and Giants games youll see that he is pressured countless times only to complete passes to wr's in stride. just sayin...

[Shilsu]

**on a side note** we should have given Collins another shot...after watching some of last seasons highlights its clear that the man has a quick release, and deadly accuracy (i know he doesnt have the power but thats not all that counts in the NFL) even in the face of pressure, in fact if anyone looks back at the Bears and Giants games youll see that he is pressured countless times only to complete passes to wr's in stride. just sayin...

If the Redskins didn't think they could properly evaluate Jason Campbell after last season, then they had to start Campbell this year. His contract has just one more year left, and they have to figure out if he is the quarterback for the future or not. That's assuming that they didn't know what they had in JC, though it seems like from other posts that even Joe Gibbs was starting to fade...

[Special K]

Of course I miss Gibbs, I don't know many fans who don't. The guy is the epitomy of class and was able to garner the respect of everyone involved with the organization. I'm glad he is happy now back in NASCAR and spending time with his family, but sure, I miss him. I'm really happy he was willing to come back for the time he did. He did so much to bring this organization back.

[33]

Hard not to miss JJG. He gave us direction. Personally, I think there is no leadership effect more important than direction.

Furthermore, he's one of the greatest coaches to ever walk the gridiron. Anyone who wanted him gone was foolish and short-sided.

[Shilsu]

I'll tell you this, Gibbs II was still a great coach, aside from his time management gaffes. What he did worked. Look what he did in 2005 with a cast of players that is essentially worse than what we have now. Look what he did when he took back control of the Redskins' identity and offensive philosophy in 2006.

Everyone wanted to talk about how great and dominant our offensive lines were, but there's a reason that Gibbs used max protection schemes so much.

The reason Gibbs II will be maligned is because of his ****ty personnel moves. With idiotic trades for Mark Brunell, TJ Duckett, Brandon Lloyd and mindbending drafts that made no sense whatsoever, no coach can succeed.

[redskins55]

I actually wrote a post describing how the fans who praised the hiring of Zorn and loved the departure of Gibbs would regret their thoughts. Redskins fans have forgotten how hard it is to win in the NFL and Gibbs brought that back to the Redskins. Two playoff appearances in four years is the sign of a good program in any sport and that's what Gibbs brought to our team.

To put our team under a first year head coach with a new offense was a sign of trouble and I can't see how most fans didnt realize this from the start.The Skins melt down was a surprise seeing that we started off so well.But fans shouldn't be asking to fire Zorn simply because the team didnt respond down the stretch. Just goes to show that real coaches win in December and Zorn will have to build on this year and show he can improve next year. Though I'm disappointed in his motivating and play calling skills I can surely give him the benefit of doubt because he was placed in a very tough situation by Snyder and Ceratto. Even Gibbs II went 6-10 the first go round so improvement is possible.

[redskins55]

I'll tell you this, Gibbs II was still a great coach, aside from his time management gaffes. What he did worked. Look what he did in 2005 with a cast of players that is essentially worse than what we have now. Look what he did when he took back control of the Redskins' identity and offensive philosophy in 2006.

Everyone wanted to talk about how great and dominant our offensive lines were, but there's a reason that Gibbs used max protection schemes so much.

The reason Gibbs II will be maligned is because of his ****ty personnel moves. With idiotic trades for Mark Brunell, TJ Duckett, Brandon Lloyd and mindbending drafts that made no sense whatsoever, no coach can succeed.

MAX PROTECT!! I found myself screaming at the TV screen earlier this year asking Zorn why he wont use max protect schemes? Especially knowing that he is installing a new offense with a shaky offensive line and young QB.It just only makes sense to use it more. Campbell has been on his butt all season!

[tr1]

And to think, many here complained when we went to the playoffs...because we hadn't 'dominated.'

I think that's probably our last taste of playoffs for a long time.

[Spartacus87]

And to think, many here complained when we went to the playoffs...because we hadn't 'dominated.'

I think that's probably our last taste of playoffs for a long time.

And if it is? So?

Gibbs was great for everything he did for us to now, but the Skins could not, and cannot, live in the past. It's not like we showed Gibbs the door, he left himself on his own very respectable terms. His time in NFL business is over. At some point we have to officially move on and try to find a steady new head coach and management system for the long term future, and that picture doesn't include Gibbs in it. Does it include Zorn? Possibly, right now things are looking bleak but who knows. Does it include Vinny? I don't think that he has the time some people believe he does, unless we pull off some really good drafts in the next couple seasons, but personally I'd like him out the door after this season.

Gibbs wouldn't be a great GM either. He doesn't have the skills necessary for it. Parcells is great because he's straight business- if you don't play hard or you're just not very good, you're out the door, too bad. And the way he overvalues proven veterans over rookies and draft picks isn't too great either.

[scruffylookin]

I miss the real Joe Gibbs era and not 2.0.

But then again I've been missing that era for 17 years and counting so what else is new.

I'm sorry but just because Gibbs 2.0 made the playoffs twice in 4 seasons, I'm not going to get all nostalgic over that "accomplishment". It's just another example of how far this franchise has fallen in nearly two decades that some people try a defend 2 6th seed playoff apearences, an overall losing record in 4 seasons, not building a strong front office, and not having a long term vision in building the team and just going for a Super Bowl every season, as being somehow a successful tenure.

Well, at least I'll have DVDs of the real Joe Gibbs era...........and Caps hockey to enjoy this coming winter.

[hail2skins]

With all due respect, I loved what Gibbs did the first time around and know that he tried his very best the second time around. But like another poster said, this organization had to move on. The OP talks about missing Gibbs but then talks about Collins, who came in because Campbell got injured. I know there's a lot more than one player on the field at a given time, but really, do you think we're making the playoffs last year if Campbell stays upright? Not me.

I guess the thing that bothers me is that some people want to try so hard to validate Gibbs' four years here as a success. When we were 4-1, it was like "Zorn is building upon the solid foundation that Gibbs left." At 7-7, where's that solid foundation? Now, its like, "we're 7-7 because we don't have leadership." I don't necessarily disagree that Gibbs is a better leader than Zorn......but there are other things that need to be considered.

And the fact remains that being compared to the person that came immediately before you is a factor. We had a couple years of rebuilding under Norv and got back to average/mediocre but couldn't get over the hump so he was bashed because he didn't attain the Lombardis Gibbs did. At the end of his tenure Spurrier's teams endured two blowout losses at home and then himself quit, so I think that was what soured fans on him. But before that, during the 2003 season, a lot of our games were close, and a lot of folks on this board would comment on how we were fighting hard, etc. Gibbs comes in and pretty much leads us from where we were at the end of 2003 to.......average/mediocrity.

Again, I don't mean to bash Gibbs here....I'm sure he gave it his all, but more and more the hire looks like one which Snyder did to stave off a fan base revolt. If he fires Zorn after the season, I don't think he has a rabbit to pull out of his hat.....Cowher, albeit a big name, wont have the same effect.

[NoleSkin21]

Joe 1 yes!! Joe 2 HELL NO!!! I hated his press conferences and he just seemed to not really care. I for one am glad he is gone. I like Zorn!!

[dcnativenerd]

I only remember Gibbs from the second time around; but what I saw was substance, heart, and solidarity from every player and coach. That is something I had never seen before as long as I've been a Redskins fan. Coach Gibbs didn't always make the right choices, but he made this team respectable again. Just like he did the first time he came here.

[GaryClarkFan]

No, I love Joe especially his first stint here. The second time around he was less than avarage. It was his time to leave, he didn't have it anymore and it was painfully obvious to watch.

[Mister Happy]

I don't think it was a coincidence that Gibbs, Saunders and now Zorn were all considered "too conservative" when Jason Campbell was QB.

They didn't look like that with Collins or a healthy Brunell (he was usually playing injured when he sucked).

I don't think Gibbs was as bad of a playcaller as we might have thought.

[hail2skins]

Just some food for thought.......

In 1988 the Skins were 6-4 before sliding to a 7-9 finish. Granted, five of the six teams were played eventually got to the playoffs (including both Super Bowl participants and an NFCCG participant), but one of the losses was at RFK to a Cowboy team that would finish the year 3-13.

The coach: Joe Gibbs.

Now granted, the guy by that time had more than earned his stripes with three Super Bowl appearances (and one more would be forthcoming).

But just sayin, stuff happens.

[JLU44]

Do I miss ole Joe? Absofreakin'lutely......Bigtime! Respectability alone meant something, but here's why I miss him the most.....He brought with him the tag of a winner. When he came back a second time, he inherited a team that was vastly inferior and in 2 years made the Play-offs! In 4 years, he made the Play-offs twice...I doubt strongly that Zorn will match that accomplishment. In fact, I see Zorn doing a three and out! Zorn will eventually wind-up back in Seattle, but think about the comparison of the team Gibbs inherited (thanks to another ****head, Steve Spurrier) to the team he left behind.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just some food for thought.......

In 1988 the Skins were 6-4 before sliding to a 7-9 finish. Granted, five of the six teams were played eventually got to the playoffs (including both Super Bowl participants and an NFCCG participant), but one of the losses was at RFK to a Cowboy team that would finish the year 3-13.

The coach: Joe Gibbs.

Now granted, the guy by that time had more than earned his stripes with three Super Bowl appearances (and one more would be forthcoming).

But just sayin, stuff happens.

True, it happens. But it's a lot easier to swallow coming off of a SB season.

And also, I'm pretty sure that they had all kinds of QB problems that year. Heck, they had all kinds of QB problems the year before and won the SB. But Williams couldn't stay healthy, and Rypien didn't play well.

I miss the leadership, direction, toughness and no-quit attitude that Gibbs brought. I've said for a while that the X's and O's passed him by, but his ability to get the most out of men did not.

What made JJG a HOF coach is that he was a tremendous leader of men, AND he was an offensive genius. That doesn't happen often.

Zorn is fascinated with the X's and O's. What he hasn't learned is that is not as important as the other stuff. He's not JJG. He can't be JJG. He needs to give up the offensive game planning and play calling to somebody else.

[Skins_Throwback]

Of course I miss Gibbs, I don't know many fans who don't. The guy is the epitomy of class and was able to garner the respect of everyone involved with the organization. I'm glad he is happy now back in NASCAR and spending time with his family, but sure, I miss him. I'm really happy he was willing to come back for the time he did. He did so much to bring this organization back.

Ditto! Seeing Gibbs in his signature "R" hat on the sideline was great. The guy was feared by other coaches from his past successes. Think about the qb's & wr's he had back during those Superbowl wins. Better than anyone he had this time around. I think that was the difference. If he would have had a few 12-4 or 11-5 years, I think he would still be here trying to make the magic again.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Every passing day.

Hail.

[paloosa]

I miss Joe Gibbs also but his time in coaching came to an end because of family circumstances. Yes there are major differences in Gibbs and Zorn but they have a lot of the same philosophies. The difference is that Joe Gibbs had experience in OC and other areas of coaching that made him a good HC and that is what Zorn lacks. Another difference is how much control Zorn has given to the rest of the coaching staff the type of control that Gibbs never gave up. Gibbs had his finger into every aspect of the team where Zorn leaves a lot to his other coaches. You even heard it from the players on this team that came out in the media and said that Zorn allows them more freedom. I remember that Mike Sellers said that Gibbs was strict about things and it was like a military style camp where Zorn is about details also but runs a looser practice. The players liked it and were happy about that but I bet you now they wish Gibbs was back coaching. So if you really look at it the players are just as much to blame as Zorn. They wanted easier practices and more freedom especially when they are winning. But now that they are losing they blame it on Zorn and the coaches as being not sure or telling them what they should do. They are pro athletes and they should have discipline enough to correct the mistakes they make as individuals.

[THEBIGGUY56]

Short answer No.

Grateful for what he did for the franchise. But let it go folks. Let it go.

[88Comrade2000]

Just some food for thought.......

In 1988 the Skins were 6-4 before sliding to a 7-9 finish. Granted, five of the six teams were played eventually got to the playoffs (including both Super Bowl participants and an NFCCG participant), but one of the losses was at RFK to a Cowboy team that would finish the year 3-13.

The coach: Joe Gibbs.

Now granted, the guy by that time had more than earned his stripes with three Super Bowl appearances (and one more would be forthcoming).

But just sayin, stuff happens.

Joe Gibbs was also head coach when the Cowboys got one win in 1989 and that was against the Redskins. Hell, that loss kept us out of the playoffs in 89.

[88Comrade2000]

Joe Gibbs I set a standard that even Joe Gibbs II couldn't met.

One thing Gibbs I one had that Gibbs II didn't, a general manager.

Every coach that coaches the Skins from now until the end of time will be compared to the standard that Gibbs I set. 8 playoff trips in 12 years. Only 1 losing season, 1 .500 season. 4 Superbowl trips and 3 Superbowl wins.

That's just the way it will always be. The only way to erase Gibbs I from the top of the ladder is for a coach to win 4 superbowls and that probably will never happen. Hell, the Skins would be lucky to even get to 1 superbowl under Snyder. At least under the way he runs things now.