Did Snyder insist that Zorn start Campbell this year

[TimmySmith]

Despite the fact that Collins started and led the team to the playoffs. Despite the fact that Collins was more familiar with an offense that is closely related to the WCO. Despite the fact that Collins completed 70% his pre-season passes to Campbell's 59%, with a higher yards per attempt, and lost 15 yards to sacks to Campbell's 43 with more attempts. Despite all of this, Campbell started without even the slightest debate.

We all know Zorn was hired as a figurehead. Not to say that he is not the HC, but he certainly had no HC or coordinating experience. It makes sense to anyone familiar with the team that Snyder would put certain stipulations on the hiring. I am guessing that one of them was that Campbell would start. Sort of putting a square peg in a round WCO hole. With NO talk of changing, it seems to add up. If Zorn is NOT fired following this season, I would see it adding some more validity to this theory. Start Snyder's guy and get firing immunity.

[Bliz]

Despite the fact that Collins started and led the team to the playoffs. Despite the fact that Collins was more familiar with an offense that is closely related to the WCO. Despite the fact that Collins completed 70% his pre-season passes to Campbell's 59%, with a higher yards per attempt, and lost 15 yards to sacks to Campbell's 43 with more attempts. Despite all of this, Campbell started without even the slightest debate.

We all know Zorn was hired as a figurehead. Not to say that he is not the HC, but he certainly had no HC or coordinating experience. It makes sense to anyone familiar with the team that Snyder would put certain stipulations on the hiring. I am guessing that one of them was that Campbell would start. Sort of putting a square peg in a round WCO hole. With NO talk of changing, it seems to add up. If Zorn is NOT fired following this season, I would see it adding some more validity to this theory. Start Snyder's guy and get firing immunity.

I like your sig. It really speaks to your post.

You clearly paid no attention during training camp regarding Collins. He was god-awful. As for the second paragraph, it's absurd at best.

[SoCalSkins]

I like your sig. It really speaks to your post.

You clearly paid no attention during training camp regarding Collins. He was god-awful. As for the second paragraph, it's absurd at best.

Zorn announced the starting QB right after he was hired. Camp was not a factor.

[bubba9497]

geez, enough already

yeah Syder wanted to start the lesser of the two, because he doesn't want to win... instead he wanted to stir up fans to ***** and moan on message boards

[McD5]

What do you think happened?

Zorn said JC was the qb before he even got to see him practice.

[Capt Rich Fla]

sqare peg? round hole?.............dejavu.....................

[modazfuk]

Wasn't Ramsey Snyder's guy? Now its Campbell.

I've read that Snyder likes to scout QBs during his free time (shrug).

[Bliz]

Zorn announced the starting QB right after he was hired. Camp was not a factor.

Of course Jason went in as the starting guy. Since he was the starter the year before that's usually the way things go. But TC didn't exactly shine in preseason. He was not clearly better, such that he should have won the job away from the incumbent starter.

[TimmySmith]

What do you think happened?

Zorn said JC was the qb before he even got to see him practice.

That was part 1 of the question. Does it equal firing immunity?

I think it is becoming fairly clear that both Campbell and Zorn are pretty safe for next year.

[TimmySmith]

Of course Jason went in as the starting guy. Since he was the starter the year before that's usually the way things go. But TC didn't exactly shine in preseason. He was not clearly better, such that he should have won the job away from the incumbent starter.

On just about any other team TC WAS the incumbent starter.

Any talk of a QB losing a job to injury is moot. That unwritten rule is antiquated and is now the exception.

[Horatio]

Of course Campbell had to be the starter...more people buy Campbell jerseys as opposed to Collins jerseys!

[zoony]

Zorn announced the starting QB right after he was hired. Camp was not a factor.

And if you believe a lot of what you read, Gregg Williams was in favor of an open QB competition (as was Al Saunders).

I don't know if it is true. It would be interesting to know though. Because there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence out there that it is (true).

That said, I am sure of two things.

1. Zorn has shown an amazing aversion to entertaining any kind of change at QB. Moreso than Gibbs, and that's saying something. Of course, that could speak to a lack of depth also.

2. Even if this is true, I don't see this as Dan Snyder intentionally trying to wreck the franchise. I see it simply as Dan realizing the importance of developing a franchise QB and how important that is to the success of a franchise. It's everything really.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Zoony is right. There was some chatter that Williams was not sold on Campbell and Zorn was.

Snyder does have a reputation for interfering at the QB position so it's not an impossibility. (He fired Norv over his refusal to play Jeff George. He drafted Ramsey all of his own accord).

[SoCalSkins]

And if you believe a lot of what you read, Gregg Williams was in favor of an open QB competition (as was Al Saunders).

I don't know if it is true. It would be interesting to know though. Because there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence out there that it is (true).

That said, I am sure of two things.

1. Zorn has shown an amazing aversion to entertaining any kind of change at QB. Moreso than Gibbs, and that's saying something. Of course, that could speak to a lack of depth also.

2. Even if this is true, I don't see this as Dan Snyder intentionally trying to wreck the franchise. I see it simply as Dan realizing the importance of developing a franchise QB and how important that is to the success of a franchise. It's everything really.

I absolutely agree that Dan and Vinny want a winner and don't question their intentions to an extent. I think Dan and Vinny genuinely thought that JC would turn it a franchise QB under the right system. They may have even believed that Gibbs gave up on PR too quickly and didn't want to do that with JC.

They wanted a coach that bought into that vision. They probably looked at Hasselbeck's success and development and brought Zorn on board as OC to teach JC. That move backfired in the process in getting a HC candidate they wanted because it resulted in the departure of Saunders and GW, 2 respected guys that just took you to the playoffs. They also announced Vinny would have control of the roster in the press release regarding his promotion. A candidate with leverage elsewhere would probably not want the job under those constraints. They were left holding the bag after the month long circus hiring process and handed the job to JZ.

I also think that marketing was a factor. Vinny stated that they looked at several elements including how the candidate performed in front of a camera. One article quoted him as saying that they were impressed that JZ changed suits during the interview process. I also think that marketing was a factor in the QB selection as well. They probably wanted a QB that could expand the brand. A guy like Vick, before his troubles, Brady or even McNabb that sold jerseys to kids that didn't have an allegiance to a specific team. TC was never going to be that guy.

I think after the implosion that took place over the last 6 weeks, they will come to their senses and realize they were wrong. I actually credit Dan for changing direction in the past when things were not progressing as he hoped, despite the media backlash.

The cleanest solution going forward will be making GW the head coach and continuing the foundation that Gibbs built. The failed experiment this year hopefully woke them up to that reality.

[McD5]

The cleanest solution going forward will be making GW the head coach and continuing the foundation that Gibbs built. The failed experinement this year hopefully woke them up to that reality.

There is no valid reason on earth to bring back GW, and to think he could be a successful head coach.

He couldn't in Buffalo.....and he is bombing as a coordinator in Jacksonville.

On top of that, a return would require Snyder to admit that he was wrong. Not happening.

This isn't the nba, where there are only thirty coaches that just get passed back and forth. Retreads, from one team to another.

There are plenty of candidates out there that can bring as much, if not a lot more to the table than GW can.

:2cents:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't think that marketing was a factor - though Campbell is a million times more marketable than Collins. Simply because Collins' Q factor is zero divided by infinity.

I think Vinny and Danny got the idea for the West Coast Offense up their ass, made the decision that Campbell could run it, and that was that.

In all honesty, the idea of the owner choosing the offensive philosophy might be the strangest thing Danny has ever done.

[Soup]

Jim Fassel did get the job because he wanted to change QBs.

[playboy1972]

The main sticking point as to whom the coach was going to be was to see what people thought of Campbell. When you hire your freakin OC before your head coach, you are an idiot. I have always said that Snyder used his interviewee's to pick there brains as to how they would run a franchise. Fassel, Zorn, Spagnola, Meeks, and Mora Jr. all received two or three hours interviews. What the hell do you think they talked about.......recipes? Snyder played slick and picked their brains until their was no one stupid enough to take the job. Then, vaalaaa..........Zorn was our man all along. I am not a damn fool! Zorn excepted this job with no idea what he was in for. Hell, Sherman didn't even want to come here until Zorn gave him a guilt trip. At what point do you get tired of being wrong Danny...?

[Hooper]

Greg Williams wanted an open competition at QB.

So did Fassel.

Danny and Vinny both wanted JC to start and who can blame them? They wanted to see what they had in the kid before his deal was up.

Then again, why pay Collins three million a year if the only way he's ever going to play is if JC gets injured?

The Skins offense has been a disaster the past five weeks. No matter how Todd has or hasn't looked in limited practice time, you would think Zorn would give him a shot to see how the offense looked with a different guy under center.

[SoCalSkins]

There is no valid reason on earth to bring back GW, and to think he could be a successful head coach.

He couldn't in Buffalo.....and he is bombing as a coordinator in Jacksonville.

On top of that, a return would require Snyder to admit that he was wrong. Not happening.

This isn't the nba, where there are only thirty coaches that just get passed back and forth. Retreads, from one team to another.

There are plenty of candidates out there that can bring as much, if not a lot more to the table than GW can.

:2cents:

I disagree. The locker room will not buy into anyone else at this point. The last guy was 1 and done and the new guy will probably suffer the same result in their minds. Unless they want to have a major overhaul of the roster and bring in a new coach to stock the team with his guys, the choice is limited. Guys were openly campaigning for GW and he will bring instant credibility to the locker room.

Bellichick wasn't ready when he coached the Browns. GW sent 4 years learning from the best. He was loyal to the organization and his success as coordinator for a defensive head coach in Jacksonville means very little.

[playboy1972]

Greg Williams wanted an open competition at QB.

So did Fassel.

Danny and Vinny both wanted JC to start and who can blame them? They wanted to see what they had in the kid before his deal was up.

Then again, why pay Collins three million a year if the only way he's ever going to play is if JC gets injured?

The Skins offense has been a disaster the past five weeks. No matter how Todd has or hasn't looked in limited practice time, you would think Zorn would give him a shot to see how the offense looked with a different guy under center.

If this true that Danny and Vinny wanted JC to be their QB, this makes me even more upset. Bill Parcells took over a team with two highly touted QB's in John Beck and Chad Henne. He saw their flaws and went out and got Chad Pennington. See the difference? Player evaluation and knowledge of how to build a winner. God this franchise gives a me a migrane just talking about their incompetence.

[McD5]

I disagree. The locker room will not buy into anyone else at this point. The last guy was 1 and done and the new guy will probably suffer the same result in their minds. Unless they want to have a major overhaul of the roster and bring in a new coach to stock the team with his guys, the choice is limited. Guys were openly campaigning for GW and he will bring instant credibility to the locker room.

Bellichick wasn't ready when he coached the Browns. GW sent 4 years learning from the best. He was loyal to the organization and his success as coordinator for a defensive head coach in Jacksonville means very little.

Half of the locker room will be gone in two years. Those that pulled for Gregg are aging. Their vote means nothing.

Gregg already lost our locker room once.....no reason to give him another chance.

Had he proved something at Buffalo.....had he done even halfway decently in Jacksonville now......if he showed any competency at all, he would deserve consideration.

He doesn't have the track record......he is no Cowher, Spags.....there are fifteen people or more who are more qualified than gambling on him.....in an effort to see if he can actually maintain the locker room this time around.

Add on that, Snyder admitting a bad decision? Extremely unlikely. The first four game losing streak Williams went on....Snyder would remember why he didn't give him the HC job in the first place, and would want to fire him.

No ty.

[THEREALTOR1]

Greg Williams wanted an open competition at QB.

So did Fassel.

Danny and Vinny both wanted JC to start and who can blame them? They wanted to see what they had in the kid before his deal was up.

Is this evidenced somewhere Hooper, or is this just your opinion? I'm not saying you're wrong, I would just like to know if it's spelled out somewhere.

[andyburd]

Despite the fact that Collins started and led the team to the playoffs. Despite the fact that Collins was more familiar with an offense that is closely related to the WCO. Despite the fact that Collins completed 70% his pre-season passes to Campbell's 59%, with a higher yards per attempt, and lost 15 yards to sacks to Campbell's 43 with more attempts. Despite all of this, Campbell started without even the slightest debate.

We all know Zorn was hired as a figurehead. Not to say that he is not the HC, but he certainly had no HC or coordinating experience. It makes sense to anyone familiar with the team that Snyder would put certain stipulations on the hiring. I am guessing that one of them was that Campbell would start. Sort of putting a square peg in a round WCO hole. With NO talk of changing, it seems to add up. If Zorn is NOT fired following this season, I would see it adding some more validity to this theory. Start Snyder's guy and get firing immunity.

Have you been hanging out with Timmy Smith?

Do you watch football?

[Hooper]

Riggins dropped the Fassel bombsbell. And a reporter from DC Examiner mentioned the open qb competion stuff in the insider section of the scout.com site. I'd link to it but there are rules against that (pay site).

For the record, the same reporter said he knew for a fact that Gibbs was thinking of benching JC last year even before he got hurt and that he would have had an open QB competition this year as well.

I like JC -- easy guy to root for. It just bothers me that the guys who saw him in practice every day were apparently far from sold on him.