Campbell & QB Discussion Thread, Cincy Postgame. POST HERE. DO NOT SPAM BOARD.

[#98QBKiller]

His stock fell because of his performance against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl and his hip injury.

I think you are being a little too quick in saying he will not be able to play in the league.

I don't know if he can or not, but I do know that you don't know either.

His stock also fell because of his lack of competition playing at Hawaii.

But I agree no one knows for sure, the one thing I do know is that Jason probably isn't the answer.

[hessy37]

If he were a true "starter" Zorn wouldn't be afraid to use him and call plays that get us down field. Instead he runs the ball and Portis into the ground, and the plays he does call in the air almost get our WRs killed because they are 4 feet over their heads. JC, he's a nice guy and all, but NOT a starter. We saw a few flashes of hope in the beginning of the year when Zorn was riding his ass hard. Once we lost to the Rams the JC we all knew reappeared and it's been down hill for him since then. He does not have the mental strength to compete as a starter in the NFL. Everything around him needs to be perfect for him to be good and that is just too much for the rest of the team to be responsible for, including the coaching staff.

[justice98]

His stock fell because of his performance against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl and his hip injury.

I think you are being a little too quick in saying he will not be able to play in the league.

I don't know if he can or not, but I do know that you don't know either.

So all 32 teams ignored the combine, workouts, interviews, game tape, etc, and based their (at best 6th round) evaluation off those two things?

[AirMayo21]

All i'm saying is, just put the kid in there, give him a shot. What do we have to lose at this point? Starting him for these last two games could do nothing but help us going into the offseason. We could use what we learn about him in these two games to help us pick who will be our opening day starter next year. He needs some regular season experience, what better time than now?

[InsaneBoost]

Really he isn't?

I was saying that about Jason Campbell in the beginning and I was "wrong wrong wrong." Now everyone is changing their minds. I thought Campbell was doing great this season, but he's gone back down hill this second half, he's unreliable and we need a change.

Whether Brennan will be the same or not well have to see, however Zorn should put him in these last two games and see how he does against starting D, especially the Eagles.

Time to test out the newer kids, we already know how the older guys are.

[justice98]

Not to mention his stubborness when it comes to the rookies. Why aren't they getting any in-game experience? You can't tell me that Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas are any worse than James Thrash and ARE. One week Zorn is telling the media that Fred Davis isn't ready, he doesn't know the playbook and can't even contribute on special teams, all the while keeping him inactive on Sundays and the next week he's in the game for almost half of all offensive plays.

They have been in games, they don't do much of anything when they're in there. Devin Thomas plays every week. Davis less so, and Kelly's lack of playing time is his own fault cuz he's always hurt.

[Never4get#21]

It really doesnt matter. He's sitting #3 on the roster. He wont see the field this season or next unless JC and Todd go down!

I would like to see what all the hype is about......We have nothing else to look forward to. No draft picks. Limit cap room for FAs and a FO of idiots....

[PigSkinRodeo]

trust me colt won't do so good he'll force throws.. And show why he can't make it.. JC is finally will have a full season under his belt.. AGAIN IT'S funny how you call out JC in the second half when the o line has be stinking lately.. The loss against the bengals was not all JC fault it was a whole team fault. So tired of you babys on here calling for JC head when it not all his fault.. Is it JC fault cooley fumble it's is JC falut sellers fumbled it. ANSWER IS NO .. Grow up little babys.. So sick of you people.. Defense did really help. Could of had 4 int instead we got none.. JC will continue to do better.. But now you guys see how much a good o line is needed when playing the ravens like d or the steelers and so forth..

I hope they keep zorn and all.. I'm sorry but he is a rookie HC.. He did good at the 1st half.. Not so at the second.. He just has to find a way to change it up.. Called rookie mistakes. And i know some of you are like well there other Rookie HC have better records this year.. Well yeah hmmm The ravens are the 2nd best defense in the league thats there team.. It is what it is.. What i don't know is are guys smiling and laughing on the sideline when there losing. shows you that money means more than the game at times.. It's sad but what do you do..

Go Skins

Go JC CP CC:notworthy:point2sky

[#98QBKiller]

They have been in games, they don't do much of anything when they're in there. Devin Thomas plays every week. Davis less so, and Kelly's lack of playing time is his own fault cuz he's always hurt.

And Devin Thomas has made some plays for us, Malcolm wasn't injured yesterday and was inactive for several games when he was healthy after the bye. And Davis, lol....other than yesterday he has been inactive since sometime in September I believe.

[AirMayo21]

It really doesnt matter. He's sitting #3 on the roster. He wont see the field this season or next unless JC and Todd go down!

That can be easily changed. Activate him. And JC is already down IMO, and Todd is there as a backup, so he's pretty much 3rd string in my eyes.

[askounes]

If you're going to give Brennan a chance, I'd rather him have the whole off-season and pre-season to prepare.

Throwing him in against Philadelphia in a game that means nothing to his teammates would not result in finding out much about his capabilities. I will say this, though - he'd only have to lead the team to TWO touchdowns to be an improvement.

And it would be kind of cool to see Zorn trot out a whole new look next week: Brennan at QB, Kelly and Thomas starting at WR, Davis at TE, etc. It would be fun.

[AirMayo21]

And it would be kind of cool to see Zorn trot out a whole new look next week: Brennan at QB, Kelly and Thomas starting at WR, Davis at TE, etc. It would be fun.

Sounds good to me. The future of our offense building some chemistry, any at all would be good. Just need to find a new OLine and running back and be set, Portis is nearing the end of his rope.

[justice98]

And Devin Thomas has made some plays for us, Malcolm wasn't injured yesterday and was inactive for several games when he was healthy after the bye. And Davis, lol....other than yesterday he has been inactive since sometime in September I believe.

Devin Thomas has made one play all season and it wasn't even in the passing game. We used a 2nd pick on a kid that seemingly is only good at running reverses and running routes short of the first down. Nice.

But my point is, when you get time, make the most of it. If Kelly's been active (and I'm guessing) 4-5 games all year, what has he done in those games? Couple of short catches, couple of drops.

[Cambl2Moss]

matt cassel

[hunterx]

For all of those disappointed and frustrated people, I'm right there with you, Jason Campbell is not the answer, but neither is Colt Brennan. Mechanically Colt Brennan is just not good enough to be a NFL quarterback. And for the optimist that believe that hes the next Tom Brady just because he was drafted in the same round, you guys are idiots. There is a reason why the scouts passed up on him. And for my last point when is the last time somebody from Hawaii especially a quarterback had success in the NFL?

What does it matter if Colt Brennan isn't mechanically sound to be an NFL quarterback? Is Brett Favre? Was Rich Gannon? Steve Young? No.

There is a reason scouts passed on Tom Brady to let him drop to the 6th as well. Why are we eliminating the possibility before seeing the product on the field?

And for your last point. Phil Simms came from Morehead State. Brett Favre went to University of Southern Mississippi. Specifically from Hawaii: Jason Elam, Ashlie Lelie, Mat McBriar.

If players who were drafted after the sixth round were bad, the NFL would do away with the draft after that round. There are players who are drafted late who can come in and make impacts. They just have to be given a shot.

This isn't in support of Colt Brennan being our starter, but to discount your profound statements.

[#98QBKiller]

Devin Thomas has made one play all season and it wasn't even in the passing game. We used a 2nd pick on a kid that seemingly is only good at running reverses and running routes short of the first down. Nice.

But my point is, when you get time, make the most of it. If Kelly's been active (and I'm guessing) 4-5 games all year, what has he done in those games? Couple of short catches, couple of drops.

Thomas also had that big TD in the Arizona game but it was recalled because Heyer put someone on their back after the whistle blew, and his stats are better than a lot of NFL WRs in their rookie seasons (including Santana Moss) and even when Kelly has been active he's been on the sidelines going in only on 4-5 WR sets.

But none of that is here or there. My original point is that we may as well throw Colt in and see what he has because much more than WRs, we need a starting QB, and Jason Campbell is not the answer there.

[Reaganaut]

Holy smokes! Look at all the Colt Brennan fans. Guess the Brennan haters have cocamole on their facadillas right now. Campbell looks as mediocre as he ever has this season. Last season he looked exactly the same as now and Collins showed what the team could do with a good QB. I like Jason as a person, but he's Jeff George. I said earlier this season that I like him better than Eli Manning and I still stand by that on some level, but after his contract is up next year we have to cut him loose. I'm sure they'll give away the store though and give him a Peyton Manning type of contract.

[zCommander]

So all 32 teams ignored the combine, workouts, interviews, game tape, etc, and based their (at best 6th round) evaluation off those two things?

Yes there were many other reasons. But that doesn't mean he won't or can't make it as the starter.

Here is an article that gives a good view on Colt with some history:

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2008_nfl_draft/colt_brennan.htm

[Skinz4Life12]

where is sith lord in these discussions?

[ZornyMan]

So all 32 teams ignored the combine, workouts, interviews, game tape, etc, and based their (at best 6th round) evaluation off those two things?

You know all 32 teams ignored Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Tony Romo sits to pee, Trent Green and a million other great QBs who were drafted in the later rounds.

[BayouBrave86]

Campbell was over-rated in college and was not that great of a QB. He was nothing but a game manager in college. I was a fool to believe in the hype surrounding him the past couple of years. He clearly isn't the answer at QB for us, regardless of the o-line. Players make plays and Campbell is not a player. He hasn't even led us to the playoffs in the past 3 years. It has been Brunell and Collins. I have a hard time believing the Skins have the worst O-line in the entire league even with a few of these injuries. 12 td's in 14 games? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Since when did we become the Baltimore Ravens?

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Corrupt3d,

Listen up champ, I am an absolute supporter of Campbell and even I must say that he had alot of opportunities out there on the field against Cincy.

How do you miss a wide-open Moss running a slant pattern across field?

JC is either shell-shocked or decided to play his worst football of the season when he found pressure to be rather unbearable.

He is a serviceable QB that will grow tire on any offense and offensive coordinator if he has no other tangibles to his game besides listening to the plays in his helmet.

I am calling for an open competition next season between Brennan and Campbell which I believe Brennan rightfully deserves.

[Chrisbob74]

The Failure Of Jason Campbell

It's a harsh title and it also singles out one man for blame but the QB position and it's importance for an NFL team means that is sometimes how it is.

Campbell started the season reasonably well and he set a franchise record for consecutive passes without an interception as the Redskins sprint out of the blocks to start of the season 6-2.

Against Detroit, where the Redskins recorded their sixth win of the season Campbell enjoyed a great day. He passed for 328 yards, a TD and completed over 80% of his attempts for a rating of 127. Since then though, his game has gone south and the Redskins season with it.

The actual real blame might lie with the workload given to Clinton Portis early in the season. Against the Lions, Portis enjoyed his 5th straight game rushing for over 120 yards and his ability to make the ground game a real threat to any opponent meant Campbell could use play action and not be the focal point for any defense.

By the time the Skins faced the Steelers a week later Portis was with the walking wounded and although he hasn't missed a game a combination of wearing down, injuries plus a banged up offensive line meant he has failed to keep up the early season pace since.

As his play has fallen off, so has Campbell's. Since the Lions game, Campbell has at last thrown an interception and in the five games since has an even TD:Int ratio (four of each). He has failed to rate above 90 in any of those five games (he rated over 90 in six of the previous eight games including four 100+ games).

His best game in this five game stretch was against the Seahawks were he rated just under 90. It's also the only game Clinton Portis has managed 100+ yards on the ground in that period.

Of course there are a lot of factors but the bottom line is that after Portis had carried the Skins to a fast start he has lost his effectiveness and Jason Campbell has not being able to take up the slack.

He's certainly not playing terrible and there are certain aspects of his game that have improved. He sees the field better and goes through his progressions faster and with more success. His fumbling problem of last year has also ceased to be a major problem. Every time he was sacked in 07 it seemed the ball popped loose but this year he is covering the ball up better when hit.

However he is not making big plays or enough 3rd down conversions to keep the score board ticking over and drives sustained. The Skins have only three pass plays of over 40 yards all season (only the Jaguars and Bengals have less) and the Skins offensive as a whole ranks 26th in 3rd down efficiency with a 35% conversion rate.

Injuries around the offense haven't helped but other niggling problems like the failure to get plays in quickly and formation issues are proving to be very frustrating factors of the Redskins season.

Is this the end for Campbell as the Redskins starter? I doubt it but after three years of starting I think he needs to be producing at a higher level and with him being a free agent after the 2009 season, the Skins have to address his future soon.

I'm not sure if I would like to see the franchise commit a lot of cap room to Campbell. The going rate for a young starting QB in todays league is roughly $20m up front and an average of $7-10m in salary per season. It's a big ask.

The NFL is a QB hungry league though and teams will take more risks, both in terms of what they will offer a team in trade for a QB and what money they are prepared to pay him.

The Redskins should shop Campbell around this off-season. He's young, has starting experience and is a top character. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs but I do believe the Redskins - who are riddled with an aging roster, lack of cap room and lack of draft picks - should sniff around the trade market and see what they can get. A first rounder is definitely possible and if you find the right partner I think you could likely get two high picks for him (maybe a 1st and a 3rd the following year) and if that were the case I'd pull the trigger.

It might mean getting by with Todd Collins for a year whilst Colt Brennan or another young prospect is developed but I am at the point now where I don't believe Campbell is the answer.

[hessy37]

corrupt3d,

listen up champ, i am an absolute supporter of campbell and even i must say that he had alot of opportunities out there on the field against cincy.

How do you miss a wide-open moss running a slant pattern across field?

Jc is either shell-shocked or decided to play his worst football of the season when he found pressure to be rather unbearable.

He is a serviceable qb that will grow tire on any offense and offensive coordinator if he has no other tangibles to his game besides listening to the plays in his helmet.

I am calling for an open competition next season between brennan and campbell which i believe brennan rightfully deserves.

amen!!!!!!!!!!!

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

The Failure Of Jason Campbell

It's a harsh title and it also singles out one man for blame but the QB position and it's importance for an NFL team means that is sometimes how it is.

Campbell started the season reasonably well and he set a franchise record for consecutive passes without an interception as the Redskins sprint out of the blocks to start of the season 6-2.

Against Detroit, where the Redskins recorded their sixth win of the season Campbell enjoyed a great day. He passed for 328 yards, a TD and completed over 80% of his attempts for a rating of 127. Since then though, his game has gone south and the Redskins season with it.

The actual real blame might lie with the workload given to Clinton Portis early in the season. Against the Lions, Portis enjoyed his 5th straight game rushing for over 120 yards and his ability to make the ground game a real threat to any opponent meant Campbell could use play action and not be the focal point for any defense.

By the time the Skins faced the Steelers a week later Portis was with the walking wounded and although he hasn't missed a game a combination of wearing down, injuries plus a banged up offensive line meant he has failed to keep up the early season pace since.

As his play has fallen off, so has Campbell's. Since the Lions game, Campbell has at last thrown an interception and in the five games since has an even TD:Int ratio (four of each). He has failed to rate above 90 in any of those five games (he rated over 90 in six of the previous eight games including four 100+ games).

His best game in this five game stretch was against the Seahawks were he rated just under 90. It's also the only game Clinton Portis has managed 100+ yards on the ground in that period.

Of course there are a lot of factors but the bottom line is that after Portis had carried the Skins to a fast start he has lost his effectiveness and Jason Campbell has not being able to take up the slack.

He's certainly not playing terrible and there are certain aspects of his game that have improved. He sees the field better and goes through his progressions faster and with more success. His fumbling problem of last year has also ceased to be a major problem. Every time he was sacked in 07 it seemed the ball popped loose but this year he is covering the ball up better when hit.

However he is not making big plays or enough 3rd down conversions to keep the score board ticking over and drives sustained. The Skins have only three pass plays of over 40 yards all season (only the Jaguars and Bengals have less) and the Skins offensive as a whole ranks 26th in 3rd down efficiency with a 35% conversion rate.

Injuries around the offense haven't helped but other niggling problems like the failure to get plays in quickly and formation issues are proving to be very frustrating factors of the Redskins season.

Is this the end for Campbell as the Redskins starter? I doubt it but after three years of starting I think he needs to be producing at a higher level and with him being a free agent after the 2009 season, the Skins have to address his future soon.

I'm not sure if I would like to see the franchise commit a lot of cap room to Campbell. The going rate for a young starting QB in todays league is roughly $20m up front and an average of $7-10m in salary per season. It's a big ask.

The NFL is a QB hungry league though and teams will take more risks, both in terms of what they will offer a team in trade for a QB and what money they are prepared to pay him.

The Redskins should shop Campbell around this off-season. He's young, has starting experience and is a top character. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs but I do believe the Redskins - who are riddled with an aging roster, lack of cap room and lack of draft picks - should sniff around the trade market and see what they can get. A first rounder is definitely possible and if you find the right partner I think you could likely get two high picks for him (maybe a 1st and a 3rd the following year) and if that were the case I'd pull the trigger.

It might mean getting by with Todd Collins for a year whilst Colt Brennan or another young prospect is developed but I am at the point now where I don't believe Campbell is the answer.

He hasn't been a starter for three years though, that is the problem with this whole ordeal.

How do you evaluate this situation? Do you say "okay, we have a guy who in his first year as the starter has shown improvement and show be taken into consideration going into next season" or "Do you take the approach of an open competition, Campbell eventually wins, has a good season and then lands on free agency."

First scenario, this has been Campbell's first full season in a West Coast system that they "say" is very intricate. I put say in quotation marks because exactly where does the complexity come into play. Is it the timing between the QB and receiver; the receivers route breakage; or just the quarterback position itself. With a first year starter, you have to teether your expectations and know that there will be highs and lows.

Second scenario, say Campbell does become what we all presume him to be and begins putting up staggering numbers that demands attention from other teams. How do you pay him with so much more money invested into other players who eventually will have to be cut or released in the next few years? If we decide to go the San Diego route, what is the given factor that Brennan will even turn out to be as good as Phillip Rivers?

Also, Vinny has to be smart and know when a deals needs to be made and when not to make it. We talking about building for the future and not "going back to the future." Michael J. Fox know what I'm talking about.