Just thinking of what it would be like.. the difference between Spagnola and Blache.

[Rocky52Mc]

Hey guys, I was watching NFLN last night and they had a good segment going on the Giants and Eagles game. Talking about defense mostly and how Spagnola knows everything he does from Jim Johnson. I then pondered about that and realized it would have been awesome if he could have come to us, that brings the enemy into our territory and letting him teach our defense all those tricks.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Blache, but I think that our defense makes those rankings a lot more then Blache's schemes do. Sure, if we were more aggressive we might pay for it more, but I'm not always sold on bringing 8 men in the box and if we blitz...they're all blitzing. If we're up on the line and it's a passing down, there's no confusing anyone. And it's even more annoying when you see this..

1. Quaterback snaps the ball - .5 second

2. in goes 4 D linemen - .8 second

3. In goes Fletcher - 1.2

4. In goes Horton - 1.7

5. In goes random LB - 2.3

6. In goes random LB - 2.6

6. Pass completed for 1st down.

Again, no offense to Blache. I think it's pretty damn bold and manly to do exactly what we show. Because we're doing good with it.

This is the thing that got me exactly.

They were talking about how Spagnola spent so much time in Philly and how he learned EVERYTHING from Jim Johnson. And then who did Spagnola teach?

Eli Manning.

Think about it.

[DieselPwr44]

Spagnola has the personnel to pressure the QB in NY.

Here he wouldn't. To me, it's nothing short of miraculous how Williams and now Blache have cobbled together a top ten D with a Dline that threatens no one.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I know right...maybe we'd be, I don't know, 7-5?

The defense is damn good and far from an issue.

[darrelgreenie]

Spagnola has the personnel to pressure the QB in NY.

Here he wouldn't. To me, it's nothing short of miraculous how Williams and now Blache have cobbled together a top ten D with a Dline that threatens no one.

I don't know.

I think Blache does a good job, but he relies alot on a player ability.

His defense begins with Landry's ability to play 1 deep Safety

Very little disguise involved in the blitz scheme.

I think a coach like Spagnola, Jim Johnson, Ryan (bros) and LeBeau could get more from this defense then Blache does no offense.

Overloads, fake blitz, zone dogs, mixing personnel packages, rotating defensive lineman aren't Blache specialty.

He does put together some nice coverage packages though.

:2cents:

[Shilsu]

Interesting concept. With the obvious aside (well maybe not so obvious to everyone) of possibly having a slightly better defense that could have put us over the edge in close games versus the Cowboys or Rams, I wonder how much impact a defensive coordinator like Spagnola could have on teaching Jason Campbell on how to handle defenses that depend on pressure...

[Tut77]

I don't know.

I think Blache does a good job, but he relies alot on a player ability.

Imagine that...a coach that relies on a player's ability...what a crazy concept. Blache's problem is that he doesn't have the personnel to do things that other teams can do. Our D line can't get penetration, can't get after the Qb and doesn't eat up blocks, which put our LBs--who are about average, in a bad position. They HAVE to play how they do because they get little help from the line. Our secondary is very good, but without any push from the D-line they are easily exposed because QBs have forever to locate receivers and throw. It's actually pretty damn impressive how solid our secondary has played, considering the line that we have. Blache works with the parts he has. If you don't have the parts, your options are limited.

[Om]

Spagnola has the personnel to pressure the QB in NY.

Here he wouldn't. To me, it's nothing short of miraculous how Williams and now Blache have cobbled together a top ten D with a Dline that threatens no one.

Bingo.

Our DC's have been fighting with one hand tied behind their backs since Dexter Manley and Charles Mann retired. And that's not hyperbole. It's been so long since we've had a legit pass rush from our DL we've almost forgotten what it looks like.

[DieselPwr44]

Bingo. It's been so long since we've had a legit pass rush from our DL we've almost forgotten what it looks like.

Judging by every poster who defends our Front Office and current Dline, they have forgotten.

[Om]

I'm working on a piece for this week breaking down the attention the Redskins have paid to their lines in the draft and FA over the past 10 years compared to the other NFCE teams and probably a couple others. I finished crunching the NFCE numbers today, and let me tell ya, it ain't pretty.

You get what you pay for. Unless it's in FA apparently.

[Genghis Khan]

I don't know.

I think Blache does a good job, but he relies alot on a player ability.

His defense begins with Landry's ability to play 1 deep Safety

Very little disguise involved in the blitz scheme.

I think a coach like Spagnola, Jim Johnson, Ryan (bros) and LeBeau could get more from this defense then Blache does no offense.

Overloads, fake blitz, zone dogs, mixing personnel packages, rotating defensive lineman aren't Blache specialty.

He does put together some nice coverage packages though.

:2cents:

I think Jerry Gray is more responsible for the coverage packages then Blache is.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Judging by every poster who defends our Front Office and current Dline, they have forgotten.

There hasn't been a dominating End in the draft that we could have drafted in our spot for the last few years. If there was a dominating pass rusher available, we passed on him b/c he wasn't a Christian, didn't have two "g's" in succession in his name, wasn't a thirty year old red shirt senior, and never wore a vest with no shirt underneath it and tap shoes. :cool:

[NavyDave]

Why do Maddenites always create foolish well since I'm being honest Stupid posts?

1. He didn't want to come here

2. The D line and Antonio Pierce were not coming with him.

3. 5 Watt light bulbs sniveling about our defense which if the offense scored 20 points a game would have to get the jaws of life to get you guys off their jock (If they could borrow it from the Colt fanatics)

Sniff sniff they actually gave up 14 points this game Ravens QB had 10 out of 21 passing for less than a 180 yds

[CPortJGibbs89]

I think Blache is doing an a great job this year. We have one of the best secondarys in the league. Bring Spagnola here and I dont think he would nearly as much sucess. The giants front 4 is above and beyond our front 4.

If you could combine this years Jason Taylor and Andre Carter into one man I still dont think they would be better than Justin Tuck. I may be way off but doesnt he have more sacks alone than all of our front 4 combined.... Just think its hard to compare the two with the players they have. I would take our secondary over the Giants in heart beat, I would take the Giants front 4 over the Skins in a heart beat.

[NoCalMike]

Unless Spagnola found a way to pressure the QB, I don't think he would do any better.

Lets face it, the Giants secondary is not that good, and Spagnola has done nothing to make them better since he's been in NY, but with that Pass Rush, the secondary can take more chances and only have to cover for a few seconds.

[Hooper]

I'm working on a piece for this week breaking down the attention the Redskins have paid to their lines in the draft and FA over the past 10 years compared to the other NFCE teams and probably a couple others. I finished crunching the NFCE numbers today, and let me tell ya, it ain't pretty.

You get what you pay for. Unless it's in FA apparently.

Thank you, OM. Vinny puts no emphasis on the trenches and it's why we've had the same problems for a long time.

He needs to go. Seriously, how can we expect the guy who got us in this mess to fix it? I said it in another thread too -- if I was Zorn, I would say tell Snyder he has to fire Vinny or I'd quit. Because there's no way you can consistently win with Vinny running things.

[dwills1]

the difference in one word: Personnel!

[Rocky52Mc]

I'll have to speak a little clearer I guess. People are saying things such as .. "Stupid" "we'd be 7-5" "and what! Blache is doing fine!"

Here's the KEY words from my thread that I guess I should have placed in bold for you guys.

"I'm not always sold on bringing 8 men in the box and if we blitz...they're all blitzing."

"If we're up on the line and it's a passing down, there's no confusing anyone."

"They were talking about how Spagnola spent so much time in Philly and how he learned EVERYTHING from Jim Johnson. And then who did Spagnola teach?

Eli Manning."

SO going from one thing to another. I think Spagnola could have benefited Jason CAMPBELL. I guess no one got that, since no one commented on that. Post loss syndrome? I don't know, but I'll tell you straight up, I'm not creating this thread and trying to tell people defensively we would be better off with Spagnola. Read Read Read. What's the last line of my thread? "Think about it"

If we had Spagnola, not only would we get part of the Eagles defensive scheme known into our system from plays to technique. We would have been able to also get the Superbowl Giants defensive scheme, but not only that! There's more. He could then teach Campbell how to identify the eagles/giants patterns. Who are the Eagles and Giants? They are 4 games every year home and away.

I'll also comment on what you guys were talking about so we have like 2 threads in one here.

We have how many DE's? And you're gonna tell me these guys don't have the potential to create pressure and get sacks? Look, I know that help comes from the DT's but where exactly do you want to change this? We draft players, we pick up players. But how come the Giants can turn some washed up 2nd round pick into Fred Robbins. What about Justin Tuck? Where exactly did he come from? What about Trent Cole? A 5th round pick. What about Juqua Parker?

Andre Carter

Jason Taylor

Demetric Evans

Rob Jackson

Erasmus James

Chris Wilson

It's more then personnel and I'm sorry to say. It's about how you deal with what you got. Someone's gotta teach these players and I'm not greatly fond of Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato but I think they do a decent job gathering talent in the draft and free agency. But just like Jim Zorn can go and teach Campbell and open up his power and tap into his potential you can do that with ANY position. These are NFL players, the ELITE, and last year you'd die for Andre Carter and Jason Taylor.

[Muzzah]

The Difference: Their Defensive Line

[tiger187126]

getting pressure with 4 down linemen is not about scheming.

they can do it, we can't

[tiger187126]

oh and unlike the giants our backfield is the strength of our defense so we don't need disguises to try to make up for it

[darrelgreenie]

getting pressure with 4 down linemen is not about scheming.

they can do it, we can't

oh and unlike the giants our backfield is the strength of our defense so we don't need disguises to try to make up for it

IMO coaches that disguise and use zone-blitz get pressure because they

confuse the blocking scheme. They show overloads, stack the line then

drop lineman into zones and often end up only rush 4 but which 4? The

brief hesitation their schemes cause helps get pressure. Coaches like

Spags, LeBeau, the Ryan bros and Jim Johnson use disguise and

confusion much better then Blache. Most of the coaches i'm talking about

also IMO make better use of their personnel because more players get a

chance to play b/c they rotate more players in more packages.

I'm not saying they don't have better personnel b/c in alot of cases they

do. But if the zone-blitz coaches switched with Blache i think they could

get more from this defense then he does.

'All war is based on deception'

'Hence that general is skilful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skilful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack. '

Sun Tzu

[HitStickTaylor21]

Has anyone in this thread spelled "Steve Spagnuolo" correctly yet?

[Rocky52Mc]

IMO coaches that disguise and use zone-blitz get pressure because they

confuse the blocking scheme. They show overloads, stack the line then

drop lineman into zones and often end up only rush 4 but which 4? The

brief hesitation their schemes cause helps get pressure. Coaches like

Spags, LeBeau, the Ryan bros and Jim Johnson use disguise and

confusion much better then Blache. Most of the coaches i'm talking about

also IMO make better use of their personnel because more players get a

chance to play b/c they rotate more players in more packages.

I'm not saying they don't have better personnel b/c in alot of cases they

do. But if the zone-blitz coaches switched with Blache i think they could

get more from this defense then he does.

'All war is based on deception'

'Hence that general is skilful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skilful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack. '

Sun Tzu

You my friend got it correct.

[tiger187126]

You my friend got it correct.

playing cute confusion blitzes is all good when you're trying to confuse a QB

we have no problem stopping QBs

we cannot line up and stop them from running it down our throats at the end of the game when we know it's coming.

this is not a scheme thing, this is on the players

[Rocky52Mc]

playing cute confusion blitzes is all good when you're trying to confuse a QB

we have no problem stopping QBs

we cannot line up and stop them from running it down our throats at the end of the game when we know it's coming.

this is not a scheme thing, this is on the players

I disagree. We have good enough players to run the 4-3 and run it correctly. We have a problem pressuring the QB. What do you mean we have no problem stopping QB's? They're not running when they can throw a first down.

When we choose to blitz we do it without hiding anything. Pretty much same thing with our run game. The Redskins seem to work 2 ways. On defense if we can't stop the run we don't win, and on offense if we can't run we don't win.

AGAIN, we're missing the threads point at hand. I'll POST again.

I'll have to speak a little clearer I guess. People are saying things such as .. "Stupid" "we'd be 7-5" "and what! Blache is doing fine!"

Here's the KEY words from my thread that I guess I should have placed in bold for you guys.

"I'm not always sold on bringing 8 men in the box and if we blitz...they're all blitzing."

"If we're up on the line and it's a passing down, there's no confusing anyone."

"They were talking about how Spagnola spent so much time in Philly and how he learned EVERYTHING from Jim Johnson. And then who did Spagnola teach?

Eli Manning."

SO going from one thing to another. I think Spagnola could have benefited Jason CAMPBELL. I guess no one got that, since no one commented on that. Post loss syndrome? I don't know, but I'll tell you straight up, I'm not creating this thread and trying to tell people defensively we would be better off with Spagnola. Read Read Read. What's the last line of my thread? "Think about it"

If we had Spagnola, not only would we get part of the Eagles defensive scheme known into our system from plays to technique. We would have been able to also get the Superbowl Giants defensive scheme, but not only that! There's more. He could then teach Campbell how to identify the eagles/giants patterns. Who are the Eagles and Giants? They are 4 games every year home and away.

I'll also comment on what you guys were talking about so we have like 2 threads in one here.

We have how many DE's? And you're gonna tell me these guys don't have the potential to create pressure and get sacks? Look, I know that help comes from the DT's but where exactly do you want to change this? We draft players, we pick up players. But how come the Giants can turn some washed up 2nd round pick into Fred Robbins. What about Justin Tuck? Where exactly did he come from? What about Trent Cole? A 5th round pick. What about Juqua Parker?

Andre Carter

Jason Taylor

Demetric Evans

Rob Jackson

Erasmus James

Chris Wilson

It's more then personnel and I'm sorry to say. It's about how you deal with what you got. Someone's gotta teach these players and I'm not greatly fond of Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato but I think they do a decent job gathering talent in the draft and free agency. But just like Jim Zorn can go and teach Campbell and open up his power and tap into his potential you can do that with ANY position. These are NFL players, the ELITE, and last year you'd die for Andre Carter and Jason Taylor.