Bush's Midnight Regulations

[AsburySkinsFan]

That would be the least he can do seeing as his successor has already stated that he would put the coal industry out of business.

So, we're not even going to pretend at least for a minute that Obama never said that? Maybe what he said was that if they try to build new dirty coal burning plants that they'll be bankrupted, a move I kinda favor. But, what's the big deal with actually quoting what someone actually said when its just easier to make it up to fit our point of view, no sense changing our opinion when we can just change the facts.

[CrabR]

Honest question, what did Clinton pass in his last few days/months in power?

H.R. 4577

the Commodity Futures Modernization Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000#H.R._4577

all presidetns make unpopular pardons and sign almost any legislation at the end of their terms. Which i disagree with

Reagan pardoned

George Steinbrenner

Mark Felt

Edward Miller

GH Bush

Elliott Abrams

Armand Hammer

Robert C. McFarlane

Caspar Weinberger

Clinton

Roger Clinton, Jr

Marc Rich

Dan Rostenkowski

Mel Reynolds

G W Bush

think we can assume it will be Scooter Libby

[AsburySkinsFan]

I don't understand why so many republicans in this thread are pretending to be against this. What Bush did is your party platform on the environment. Is the problem that he did it this way, as in you'd celebrate it had he done it before the election or if congress passed it? The actually actions are completely in line with the GOP otherwise.

Looking at the things Bush did here you'd think the republicans members on the board would be thrilled. This is your platform, that you vote in support of, coming to pass. Hooray?

That's the thing Destino, they are taking a look at the rules he's passing and they know that they can't defend them, and at the same time they are being forced to realize that this is what the GOP wanted all along, which again is indefensible, and in that light they have to deflect the argument to something else or criticize right along with the rest of us; deflecting is easier I guess.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Clearly, there's a bias here. What were the regulations Bush sidestepped? Where they working? Were they hurting workers in unintended ways? I'd like more information about the efficacy of the regulations he's wiping away before making a call on their value to our society.

Here's the problem with what's happening here, the amount of paper work that needs to be read in actually considering these rule changes is astronomical, and by one of the estimates that I read the analysts would have to read 7 submitted opinions per minute at the rate they are making the rules, so one is left only to think that they already had their mind made up before hand, and are completely disregarding all the information.

Here it is:

Interior Department completed its “review” of two hundred thousand public comments on the endangered-species rules in just four days, a feat that, one congressional aide calculated, required each staff member involved to read through comments at the rate of seven per minute. “So little time, so much damage” is how the Times recently put it.

Regardless, no president should push anything through this way. Its cowardly.

Agreed.

[Special K]

Sweet, I'm actually happy with his fisheries regulation. Huge fight up where my parents live about this exact issue. The conflict has been spearheaded by rabid environmentalists and has been such a waste of taxpayers' money it's absurd. So, it's fine with me everyone up there doesn't have to deal with that crap for at least a few months. I'm fine with the coal and Endangered species act as well.

As if you haven't been able to bash Bush enough over the past 8 years you are trying to get your last bashes in? I don't know why all you liberals are getting your panties in a wad over this. You know this will all get reversed in a few months with democrats controlling the whitehouse, house of reps., and senate.... so why even fret?

I am much more concerned with pardons. It will be interesting to see who Bush decides to pardon... Although I don't think he'll screw it up as much as Clinton did with the terrorists and Mark Rich pardons. That was an absolute joke.

So liberals, please, don't stroke out over this...everything will be fine and when your boy gets in the Whitehouse, he'll reverse it all. So don't waster your energy pissing and moaning about this.

Is it just me or have even the most objective, level-headed, and investigative posters been reduced to little more than partisan hacks these days?

Nope, it's not just you who notices this...but what can you expect, Bush bashing is all the rage these days!!

[AsburySkinsFan]

So, it's fine with me everyone up there doesn't have to deal with that crap for at least a few months. I'm fine with the coal and Endangered species act as well.

Must be nice when its not your mountains that are being destroyed for profit, while polluting the drinking water of the impoverished communities that surround the mines, who gives a crap about some trailer trash in SE Kentucky right?

I'll give you props for being the first one in this thread to actually support the rules he's pushing through.

Nope, it's not just you who notices this...but what can you expect, Bush bashing is all the rage these days!!

Keep telling yourself that, I'm sure one day if repeated enough it will actually be true. If you don't see the difference in leveling criticism at policy decisions that have been made and claiming something's a failure or a farce before he's even begun then I can't help you. But these might...

Just click your heels together three times and say "Bush really was a good President..." repeat as necessary.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Yeah, he'll coast straight through these next four years criticism free....just like the last two weeks right? Oh, that's right...what HAVEN'T you guys criticized about Obama in the last two weeks. :doh:

Seriously man, grow some thicker skin or your head will explode by March

It is the nature of people who follow politics, relax, don't take it so personal

You are about to have at least 4 years of this. And there will be many unpopular and dumb decisions President Obama makes which he'll be called out for.

Right now, his cabinet picks aren't looking too hot. Hence why he is gonna get raked over the coals for the Rahm Emanuel (a guy I actually respect and would love on my side) Hillary Clinton as SoS (I guess her Bosnia trip DID give her foriegn policy expierence) and now AG Eric Holder (talk about midnight pardons right there) and HHS Tom Daschle (really, Tom Daschle trying to create the equivalent of a Federal Reserve for health care?)

Change we can believe in

[AsburySkinsFan]

Seriously man, grow some thicker skin or your head will explode by March

It is the nature of people who follow politics, relax, don't take it so personal

That's not my problem, what I was pointing out was the fact that the person I was responding too claimed that Obama will get a pass from criticism, and as is readily apparent he's not.

[SkinsHokieFan]

That's not my problem, what I was pointing out was the fact that the person I was responding too claimed that Obama will get a pass from criticism, and as is readily apparent he's not.

He will get a pass from the media at large or have it spun in a good way. You won't see the fangs come out from the MSM over what President Obama does

He certainly will not get a pass from the likes of people like me

Although again, and I can't repeat this enough, I really do like our President elect. He has a lot of good qualities that I think can lead to a successful presidency including being very smart, open to other ideas and on the surface not a complete flaming liberal. He also fits the "I'd like to hang out with him" type and seems like he doesn't have the character flaws that Bill Clinton had and you can be proud of him when he does well

So I hope he does. But I'll also be right there as loyal opposition

[Kilmer17]

Honestly, I didnt bother to read what the regulations were. I thought the thread was specifically about HOW he was passing them.

So my position still stands.

1-It's shady as hell

2-Clinton did more than any other President EVER

3- Bush redid all (or most) of Clintons once he took over and Obama will do the same when he takes over.

There was a piece right after the election about the growing list of Presidential Orders Obama was going to issue in his first week. I cant find it now, but Im sure this list from Bush just makes his list longer.

[Thiebear]

That's why I voted for Barr. I hedged my bet.

It will be nice when we can get back to the intelligent conversations we had up to, and including during, the primaries.

Bingo.

Please try and be consistent if you're going to pretend to be shocked.

[Destino]

Not exactly, no it isn't.

Feel free to point out the changes Bush made that are not in line with GOP platform issues on the environment.

[Destino]

Honestly, I didnt bother to read what the regulations were. I thought the thread was specifically about HOW he was passing them.

As always you did a great job framing this one Kilmer. Let's talk about HOW it was passed when we have nothing to lose and can blame Clinton. Call everyone that takes issue a hypocrite. When a democratic President rapidly expands the executive and thumbs their nose at pretty much every attempt to investigate anything about them... we'll see how consistent you are. I've just never seen a President behave the way Bush and Cheney (thanks to the support of the GOP faithful) have.

[Kilmer17]

As always you did a great job framing this one Kilmer. Let's talk about HOW it was passed when we have nothing to lose and can blame Clinton. Call everyone that takes issue a hypocrite. When a democratic President rapidly expands the executive and thumbs their nose at pretty much every attempt to investigate anything about them... we'll see how consistent you are. I've just never seen a President behave the way Bush and Cheney (thanks to the support of the GOP faithful) have.

I said the same thing when Clinton did it.

As per usual, youre the one with two sets of standards.

[Destino]

I said the same thing when Clinton did it.

As per usual, youre the one with two sets of standards.

I agree with you about executive orders but the reality of it is this is something Presidents have the power to do. Complaining about them using their authority is a waste of time. Do you support removing this power from the executive? If not... why are we talking about this?

I find it more interesting to note that instead of arguing the merits of what Bush actually did we are talking about Clinton. Certainly easier than noting that what Bush did here is completely in line with the GOP. This is why the republican party doesn't talk about the environment. The only policy they have would negatively impact it.

As for Clinton, he was investigated more closely than Bush. That's not really saying much though is it? I'm not going to argue this point because fact is fact. If he dodged, he failed at dodging, as surely as he failed at being a good husband and father. Bush didn't follow the rules - which is why one of the topics with Obama having won is "will they be investigated" because during his administration he and his people never answered a question they didn't want to.

[Kilmer17]

I agree with you about executive orders but the reality of it is this is something Presidents have the power to do. Complaining about them using their authority is a waste of time. Do you support removing this power from the executive? If not... why are we talking about this?

I find it more interesting to note that instead of arguing the merits of what Bush actually did we are talking about Clinton. Certainly easier than noting that what Bush did here is completely in line with the GOP. This is why the republican party doesn't talk about the environment. The only policy they have would negatively impact it.

As for Clinton, he was investigated more closely than Bush. That's not really saying much though is it? I'm not going to argue this point because fact is fact. If he dodged, he failed at dodging, as surely as he failed at being a good husband and father. Bush didn't follow the rules - which is why one of the topics with Obama having won is "will they be investigated" because during his administration he and his people never answered a question they didn't want to.

I do support removing some of that power. I think the FFs vision of the Executive didnt include 23rd hour pardons and platform orders in the dark of night.

As for the orders themselves. I still dont care and still havent read what they are. Because they are as irrelevant as the crazy regulations Clinton passed via exec order in his final days that Bush retracted with his own exec orders in his first few days. The same thing will happen here.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I do support removing some of that power. I think the FFs vision of the Executive didnt include 23rd hour pardons and platform orders in the dark of night.

As for the orders themselves. I still dont care and still havent read what they are. Because they are as irrelevant as the crazy regulations Clinton passed via exec order in his final days that Bush retracted with his own exec orders in his first few days. The same thing will happen here.

The problem is that they are not the same as Executive Orders, and any that were written before yesterday will go into effect before Obama takes office, as such it will take movement in the Senate to undo the damage that Bush has done.

And, anyone who denies that the crap Bush is pushing right now is NOT part of the GOP then I'm sorry that your party has kept you in the dark for so long, at least now you can see what their real thinking is all about.

[Koolblue13]

Feel free to point out the changes Bush made that are not in line with GOP platform issues on the environment.

You had made the point that it was what most of the Reps on here want, not the GOP.

I find most of the Reps on here, PeterMP, twa, Thiebear, myself, don't have the same feelings.

Bush is in line with the GOP on the envo.

[Larry]

The problem is that they are not the same as Executive Orders, and any that were written before yesterday will go into effect before Obama takes office, as such it will take movement in the Senate to undo the damage that Bush has done.

That's the second time I've seen that statement. ("You keep using that word.")

Do you actually have some support for this claim that W somehow has the power to do something that his successor can't undo using the same power?

[Special K]

Must be nice when its not your mountains that are being destroyed for profit, while polluting the drinking water of the impoverished communities that surround the mines, who gives a crap about some trailer trash in SE Kentucky right?

Yep, b/c that's exactly what I said...SE Kentucky is a bunch of trailor trash. Give me a break.

And if you want to get in to a pissing contest about who's getting screwed over the most in regards to environmental and endangered species regulations google "spotted owl" and see which region that affected...yep, where I grew up. And the environmentalists latest cause is to regulate the fisheries in southern Oregon and northern Cal and it's a pretty large and expensive controversy in our region. So worry not, I'm an equal opportunity extreme-environmentalist basher.

I'll give you props for being the first one in this thread to actually support the rules he's pushing through.

Nope, didn't say I agreed with all of the legislation he's pushing through...which would be why I specifically singled out the ones I actually DO support.

Keep telling yourself that, I'm sure one day if repeated enough it will actually be true. If you don't see the difference in leveling criticism at policy decisions that have been made and claiming something's a failure or a farce before he's even begun then I can't help you.

Lol, you are really going to have to get a little tougher b/c Obama will be criticized throughout his term...like ALL presidents, and possibly to the level that you all enjoyed bashing Bush.

And I think this is the bazillionth time you've said you "can't help me." Maybe it's time for "change" and you can think of a new line to throw out at people who have a different opinion than you.

Oh yeah, and I haven't bashed Obama at all, I've expressed my concern about him running on a platform of "change" then tapping several people in the former Clinton administration to fill positions in his cabinet. If you are upset by that type of expressed concern, you are in for a LONG next 4 years...

Do you actually have some support for this claim that W somehow has the power to do something that his successor can't undo using the same power?

Like Larry, I would like to know where you are getting this information from as well...

As far as I know, Obama will be able to reverse everything come Jan. 20.

[AsburySkinsFan]

That's the second time I've seen that statement. ("You keep using that word.")

Do you actually have some support for this claim that W somehow has the power to do something that his successor can't undo using the same power?

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/bush-set-to-relax-endangered-species/n20081120004409990025

If the rules go into effect before Obama takes office, they will be difficult to overturn since it would require the new administration to restart the rule-making process. Congress, however, could reverse the rules through the Congressional Review Act - a law that allows review of new federal regulations.

I don't ALWAYS talk out of my arse.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Yep, b/c that's exactly what I said...SE Kentucky is a bunch of trailor trash. Give me a break.

A bit dramatic I admit, but its how they are treated, it is an impoverished region and the coal profits continually outweigh the poor there

And if you want to get in to a pissing contest about who's getting screwed over the most in regards to environmental and endangered species regulations google "spotted owl" and see which region that affected...yep, where I grew up. And the environmentalists latest cause is to regulate the fisheries in southern Oregon and northern Cal and it's a pretty large and expensive controversy in our region. So worry not, I'm an equal opportunity extreme-environmentalist basher.

I've got no problem doing away with extremist environmentalism and IF the case of the fisheries in Oregon is as you say then it should be done away with. However, the mountain top removal is not some "extremeist" position.

Nope, didn't say I agreed with all of the legislation he's pushing through...which would be why I specifically singled out the ones I actually DO support.

Then why not criticize the one's that you disagree with?

Lol, you are really going to have to get a little tougher b/c Obama will be criticized throughout his term...like ALL presidents, and possibly to the level that you all enjoyed bashing Bush.

Again, its not the criticism that I find so annoying, its the idea that people can tell by the appointees that Obama's "Change" is impossible, which is completely unfounded, and hackish.

Like Larry, I would like to know where you are getting this information from as well...

As far as I know, Obama will be able to reverse everything come Jan. 20.

See my previous post.

[Special K]

Then why not criticize the one's that you disagree with?

Again, its not the criticism that I find so annoying, its the idea that people can tell by the appointees that Obama's "Change" is impossible, which is completely unfounded, and hackish.

Why do I need to criticize the one's that I disagree with? Usually if one specifies the regulations they agree with, it is assumed they are not agreeing with the ones left off their list. I thought that was kind of obvious...

Besides, you and most of the other posters in this thread have covered the bases with criticizing Bush...as you always do.

Finally, no one is saying it's "impossible" for Obama make good on his promise of change. I am, however, saying appointing half of Clinton's 1990's administration is not a good start in my opinion. And yes, that is a VALID criticism.

Again, you are really going to have to toughen up these next few years if you seriously think this is over-the-top, unfounded criticism of Obama...