Observations After 10 Weeks

[Dick Edds]

agreed with all that has been said.

[TheLongshot]

Chad is a stud. He looked good at guard, and I agree he was slow at tackle in preseason games. I would let him start playing guard. Sends a message to the OLine.

And what message is that? That we will sit perfectly good players to play a rookie? For the most part, Kendall and Thomas haven't been the problem.

I would like to see JT at OLB and send him. It would create a serious mismatch for the offense that would have to keep a TE on the line or RB in the back to watch for him. He's not effective at DE at this point. Could create some more schemes. AC is horrible no excuses he needs to step it up!

Well, the front office said before the draft that they wanted to get a stud DT to provide some push up the middle. From this season, I can see why. The ends can't get there because the QB has no problem stepping up in the pocket.

I don't see how putting JT at OLB would help anything, particularly since he doesn't have that much experience there. Yeah, he has occasionally dropped back into coverage, but that doesn't make him an OLB.

We need a starting RT. Young stud. Heyer is not the answer. Definately DLine DE/DT and LB.

Not sure how you know Heyer can't be the answer. The guy is an undrafted player in his second year. He's still developing and growing as a player.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Good post. A few thoughts.

1. I don't understand the idea of not playing your best players because they might get hurt. If Washington or Springs can play, you play them. Because they are better than your backups. If they can't play, you deal with that in the off-season.

The result of the Taylor trade was completely predictable. You overspend on an aging vet out of desperation, and this is what happens. But I am fully confident that he will be back in Pro Bowl form next year, because player whose games are based on speed improve at age 35 following leg injuries.

2. I agree that WR is a disaster. And I agree that it is probably past time to put Kelly on IR. But I am completely convinced they are going to screw around with him until they announce in March that he just had knee surgery.

Aside from that, I'm not sure what else you can do besides muddle along with what we have. I think you have to let Thomas see the field occasionally, because a) he is talented and Thrash is not. You need talent at receiver.

3. A two tight end set could cause huge match-up problems, but Davis seems to be deep in Zorn's doghouse. I haven't gotten a feel from Zorn on how you get out of his doghouse.

[Truant]

Not bad, but giving up on the rookies is short-sighted. All rookies make egregious mistakes and if you banish them early, you never develop their talent and reap the benefits.

Thomas is getting better and is more of a threat than Thrash. Obviously the team feels that Kelly is worth the wait and we will hopefully see him this Sunday.

Other than that, I agree. You have to be available and accountable to be a big part of the team's plans. Our passing game is vastly behind all other aspects of this team. I think Heyer may give the line a boost and allow the passing game to make some strides.

If the passing game does not improve and take off some pressure from the run game, we're dead in the water.

[Rocky21]

Another great post bulldog. Aside from Horton, Vinnie's first draft as EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT has been an unmitigated flop. We needed receivers to come in and compete right away and the 3 young pass catchers we drafted do NOT fit the bill. And don't get me started on Tryon and Brooks.

Marcus Washington and Shawn Springs have been stealing their paychecks all year.

[TheLongshot]

Another great post bulldog. Aside from Horton, Vinnie's first draft as EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT has been an unmitigated flop. We needed receivers to come in and compete right away and the 3 young pass catchers we drafted do NOT fit the bill. And don't get me started on Tryon and Brooks.

I guess you would have rather we have traded for Ocho Cinco? Because that's really the way we were going to get an instant impact. WRs historically don't make much of an impact as rookies.

Marcus Washington and Shawn Springs have been stealing their paychecks all year.

Yeah, let's blame players for getting hurt. It is all their fault. :doh:

[Hooper]

Nice observations, Bulldog. At the end of the day, none of our problems are really that surprising. Starting with --

JANSEN: during the head coaching search, several candidates reportedly told Cerrato and Snyder he was no longer starting material. Problem is, we gave him a huge extension two years back. I don't think much of Heyer, but he can't be worse than Jansen on passing downs. With Samuels hurting, JC is under so much pressure that he's starting to regress as a qb. It's a real concern.

TAYLOR: when you ignore defensive ends in the draft -- and drafting them in round seven doesn't count -- for literally a decade, you put yourself in a bad position. When Daniels got hurt, we had no choice but to go get Taylor. Parcells knew this and completely fleeced Cerrato for two quality picks. Right now, Taylor is a liability on the field -- and I say this as a big fan of the guy.

THOMAS: he was thought to be a project, but I don't think anyone thought he would this raw. How many times can you run the wrong route? Sometimes I watch him and think he's never played football before.

KELLY: worries about his knee before the draft. That said, I am still holding out hope that he can give us something this year. In training camp he was often the best player on the field. A scary, scary talent.

Folks, you build from the inside out, something everyone in football seems to know except Cerrato. Look at his track record -- the trenches are simply not a priority for him. Right now, we're paying the price for this and I really don't see how we won't continue to do so for the next couple of years. Look at the bench -- other than a couple decent young d-tackles, the cupboard is pretty much bare when it comes to both lines.

[Hooper]

I guess you would have rather we have traded for Ocho Cinco? Because that's really the way we were going to get an instant impact. WRs historically don't make much of an impact as rookies.

Eddie Royal ring a bell?

DeSean Jackson ring a bell?

Those guys aren't the norm obviously, but if you spend three high picks on pass catchers, you would think at least one of them might catch 30 balls or so.

And the only reason we didn't make that insane Chad Johnson trade was because the Bengals turned it down.

[Rocky21]

I guess you would have rather we have traded for Ocho Cinco? Because that's really the way we were going to get an instant impact. WRs historically don't make much of an impact as rookies.

Uhh, your guess would be wrong. It's not like he was the only UFA WR on the planet.

So what are you saying Longshot? I think the '08 draft class is poor. What do you think?

[Rocky21]

Folks, you build from the inside out, something everyone in football seems to know except Cerrato. Look at his track record -- the trenches are simply not a priority for him. Right now, we're paying the price for this and I really don't see how we won't continue to do so for the next couple of years. Look at the bench -- other than a couple decent young d-tackles, the cupboard is pretty much bare when it comes to both lines.

Hooper speaks the truth.

We need to go heavy toward the O-line in the offseason.

[Chump Bailey]

Chad is a stud. He looked good at guard, and I agree he was slow at tackle in preseason games. I would let him start playing guard. Sends a message to the OLine.

IMO, Chad should definitely be looked at as our RT of the future. I would place Heyer at Guard personally. Heyer and Jansen are both better at run blocking with pass protection neither guy's strongsuit-albeit Heyer is the better of the two. There are a few first round graded Centers in this upcoming draft also. An upgrade is sorely needed there. I think a stud C stout, with a nasty disposition along with Heyer and Chad could make the right side of the line very formidable. I'm not sure how long Kendall wants to play though. Thomas is a little younger and could possibly switch to LG. Thomas and Samuels on the left looks good too IMO.

[Hooper]

IMO, Chad should definitely be looked at as our RT of the future. I would place Heyer at Guard personally. Heyer and Jansen are both better at run blocking with pass protection neither guy's strongsuit-albeit Heyer is the better of the two. There are a few first round graded Centers in this upcoming draft also. An upgrade is sorely needed there. I think a stud C stout, with a nasty disposition along with Heyer and Chad could make the right side of the line very formidable. I'm not sure how long Kendall wants to play though. Thomas is a little younger and could possibly switch to LG. Thomas and Samuels on the left looks good too IMO.

For whatever reason, Buges doesn't think Heyer can play guard. He certainly has more of a tackle build. And you if think Cerrato is going to spend a first round pick on a linemen... well, it just ain't gonna happen. Thomas and Samuels do look good but only when healthy and they're both getting up in years. Lot of long-term concerns on both lines.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Nice thread so far.

I agree that, with the regime change, it's a natural time to clear out some older veterans.

Springs and Washington should be reserves as should Jansen. I think you have to play the young skill players and just live through their mistakes for the time being. If you don't, they won't even have that game experience for next season.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

For whatever reason, Buges doesn't think Heyer can play guard. He certainly has more of a tackle build. And you if think Cerrato is going to spend a first round pick on a linemen... well, it just ain't gonna happen. Thomas and Samuels do look good but only when healthy and they're both getting up in years. Lot of long-term concerns on both lines.

Although your attack on Vinny is warranted since he is now the man in charge, how do you know what it is he will do in these upcoming drafts?

Your post is very contradictive because Samuels was a first-rounder in 2000. Do you know who made the choice to draft him because it certainly was not Vinny but yet he takes the blame for the ineptitude of which this organization operated under during that regime before Gibbs got here.

[NoCalMike]

Observation #4854968

If a team can score more than one touchdown vs. Redskins, said team wins.

And as far as the "house cleaning goes" I agree, but you know what the more I think about it, that should have been done THIS SEASON.

It is Zorn's first season, with a new offense, so naturally it would have been accepted by the fans if we were just not very good. Instead we are 6-4 and could possibly get into the playoffs.

So, lets say we go into the playoffs, and lose the first game.

Are the fans going to THEN accept a "house cleaning" in 2009 that could possibly set the franchise back 3-4 wins in 2009, and a last place finish in the NFC East?

Remember, in the NFL most coaches only last 3-5 years, and perception is reality, and you don't get much time to "build" a winner.

I am just saying that the house cleaning should have been done in Jim Zorn's first year, unless Snyder/Cerrato are going to come in, in 2009 with the attitude that this hot start never happened and understand what is going to probably happen as a result of "house cleaning"

[BigRedskinDaddy]

IMO, Chad should definitely be looked at as our RT of the future. I would place Heyer at Guard personally. Heyer and Jansen are both better at run blocking with pass protection neither guy's strongsuit-albeit Heyer is the better of the two...

Disagree. Rino is not an agile lineman; his strength is literally his strength. As such I think he would be better placed on the interior at G. Stephon Heyer is most definitely NOT adept at run blocking. It's been said here many times over from TC on that his pad level when he engages his man is way too high -- as a result he gets little or no push off the LoS. His main asset is his ability to anchor in pass pro. IMHO if he can be coached up to get some decent drive in run blocking, especially since we're soon to be using zone schemes, then he would be a good but not great replacement for JJ on the right side.

[jfr3ek]

why is it that after we lose 2 consecutive games to 2 good football teams, everyone starts questioning our team. We'll turn the afterburners on this Sunday @ Seattle, and i hope the questions cease.

that is all.

[cphil006]

As for the wide receiver issue, we are still missing a big, talented wide out. An Anthony Mix won't do. It just won't.

We need a guy who can fight for a ball and bring it down. The game yesterday between San Francisco and St. Louis had a perfect example of what it means to have a big, talented receiver.

Bryant Johnson (6-3 215) was thrown a ball to the corner of the endzone. He was blanketed in coverage. There was pretty much no room to breathe, let alone make a play. Shaun Hill lobbed that sucker up there, Bryant went up, caught it and scored. It was beautiful. We need a guy that can do that.

Not a guy who is just tall... But a guy with some height and a whole lot of strength and some ability.

JC won't make that throw. He'll check down immediately and dump off to the RB for a 2 yard gain on 3rd and 3.

[Ghost of]

I'm a little lost on the weather thing, but I agree with your overall idea. The great ones recently have all been from Florida, and the SEC or ACC. But the Big 12 does put out some great players too. Now the Big Ten is a different story....

Actually (and this is for McD too) that analysis is way off.

Ironically, the "running" conferences of the Big 10 and Big 12 put out better receivers than just about any other. Some of the greatest wideout names in recent memory have been Big 10 guys, specifically Mich St, Mich, Ohio ST guys like Cris Carter, Boston pre-roid rage/brittling, Edwards before he returned to his freshman year at Michigan this season, Plax Burress, Amani Toomer (and ANthony Carter.) I'd have to think a minute on Big 12 but maybe you cats have heard of Dez Bryant and that Crabtree from Texas Tech and the Shipley kid from Texas. Add that to Jordy Nelson from K State and some guys I'm no doubt missing.

I'd argue that the best NFL-fits at most skill positions are not from the SEC at all (though it's not as if that's a worthless conference for all the other roster spots)

It's the running backs that somehow suck from the traditional running conferences. Odd, eh?

[Cincycowboy]

Good summary. I agree completely, and have little to add. However, on the subject of our second round receivers. It honestly isn't that difficult to understand. Some food for thought:

Thomas: One year at Michigan State. Literally one year. And in a conference that isn't exactly a powerhouse, let alone a powerhouse in the receiving department. If Dallas drafts a guy with one year of experience, we laugh and high five. If we do it, we "knew he was a project."

Kelly: Knees. Again, not in a conference that puts out great receivers. Questionable character to boot.

Davis: USC. Again, another weak conference. Who did he get his stats against? See Matt Leinart, and eight to ten total busts recently drafted from USC.

Ever wonder why our best players all all from the state of Florida? Ever wonder why a great number of the most athletic players of all time, and current players, are all from the state of Florida?

Deion, E. Smith, Hester, Brooks, Cromartie, Sean Taylor.....etc? The real physical freaks.

It isn't coincidence.

It is the weather. Come January, when it is 15 degrees outside, the Big 10 skill players are running windsprints in basketball gymnasiums.

Skill position players in Florida are burning on natural grass, in the heat.

Now do that for 6-8 seasons, and you are no longer comparing apples to apples.

Grab your linemen from the big 10. Grab your skill position players from the warm southeast. Preferably from the state of Florida.

Ever wonder why in a draft so depleted with WRs, these 2 guys fell as far as they did? Most teams had them rated low for a reason.

[TheLongshot]

Eddie Royal ring a bell?

DeSean Jackson ring a bell?

Those guys aren't the norm obviously, but if you spend three high picks on pass catchers, you would think at least one of them might catch 30 balls or so.

Well, part of the reason why they are contributing so much is because they need to be on the field for those teams. The Eagles had zero playmakers at the WR position and Royal needed to play because Marshall was out.

So what are you saying Longshot? I think the '08 draft class is poor. What do you think?

I think it way too early to rate the draft class. You need two or three years to find out what exactly you got.

Thomas was exactly what the scouting reports said he was: a kid with lots of ability, but still a bit raw and had a lot to learn. Kelly was the guy that the team thought would contribute sooner rather than later, but has been unlucky so far with injury.

[Hooper]

Well, part of the reason why they are contributing so much is because they need to be on the field for those teams. The Eagles had zero playmakers at the WR position and Royal needed to play because Marshall was out.

Wrong.

Royal was the number two receiver at the start of the season when Marshall was healthy. Guy's a stud. He abused Hall in their first matchup.

And on paper, overall the Eagles had better receivers going into the draft than we did. You take away Moss and we got nothing.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Wrong.

Royal was the number two receiver at the start of the season when Marshall was healthy. Guy's a stud. He abused Hall in their first matchup.

And on paper, overall the Eagles had better receivers going into the draft than we did. You take away Moss and we got nothing.

So, you answer your own self.

[TheLongshot]

Wrong.

Royal was the number two receiver at the start of the season when Marshall was healthy. Guy's a stud. He abused Hall in their first matchup.

Marshall was suspended the first game of the season, so yeah, they did need him.

As to being a stud, he's been pretty up and down. He's had some great games, but he's had games where he's barely shown up.

And on paper, overall the Eagles had better receivers going into the draft than we did. You take away Moss and we got nothing.

You can say that with a straight face? What I saw was Curtis the one year wonder and nothing else. Their receivers would be nothing without McNabb, and even with him are only adaquite.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Marshall was suspended the first game of the season, so yeah, they did need him.

As to being a stud, he's been pretty up and down. He's had some great games, but he's had games where he's barely shown up.

You can say that with a straight face? What I saw was Curtis the one year wonder and nothing else. Their receivers would be nothing without McNabb, and even with him are only adaquite.

:applause: