ES Gay Marriage Poll

[brandymac27]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. For people who are concerned that legalized marriage will bring massive amounts of people to come out and choose to be gay, and negatively impact family values:

If homosexuality is biological, rather than a choice, why would their choices impact the so called "morally appropriate" heterosexual family values that are already in place? Their gayness can't influence our straightness, just like someones birth defect can't influence our "normalcy". It's not like if we legalize gay marriage, people will all of a sudden decide to be gay. I don't think things like marriage can alter some sort of genetic code in people's brains making them all of a sudden want to be gay.

There will be gay couples regardless if gay marriage is legalized, just like there is now, so my question is how have these gay couples that have been able to marry/civil unions negatively affected your personal family values or the institution that most of us straight people call "families"?

[Teller]

Not that there's anything wrong with that. I didn't read much, but I bet that has been posted already.

Not the way you...umm...'laid it out' graphically.

[Larry]

The government creates a special, different version, of an already-existing government function. They ban a small group of people from utilizing the already-existing function, and demand that they instead use this other, different, thing over here. The stated purpose for doing so is to prevent that small group of people from utilizing the existing government function.

They claim that the new, separate, function is the same as the existing one. But the sole reason it was created was to mark that group of people as different from the people who use the pre-existing function. It serves no other purpose.

Is this a legitimate use of government power? Is this OK with you folks?

[Capt Rich Fla]

I imagine homosexual desires are alot more "normal" than you think. People chose to repress it due to bigots and hate mongers like the very ones up here. If I were gay, I would hide it too.

Now Bri Bri, we musn't get our panties in bunch now.

[Teller]

Larry, all respect, but I don't see any of us changing any minds here.

Can we just agree that the people on my side aren't trying to restrict marriage because certain people are "icky?" We have other, in our opinions, legitimate reasons.

Likewise, I respect your staunch defense of the concept of equal treatment. (In most cases. ) But this head-beating session is at a stalemate, IMO.

[Larry]

Whaaaaat?!:kiss::moon::mmm: Do we have that many gay people on here?

Yep. We breed like rats.

[Redd]

Whaaaaat?!:kiss::moon::mmm: Do we have that many gay people on here?

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Well I'm not gay but I can see that homosexuals are being discriminated because of their sexual preference. Seriously if the open gays were smart they should just stop paying taxes because obviously they're second class citizens. Even better make a law that they can't touch or interact with young children because they might spread the ghey.:whoknows: Best stick with the other gays and let the heteros keep to themselves.

[Teller]

Why do you object homosexuality being normalized? You do realize it's been recorded throughout history right? It's a normal part of life my friend, so why shouldn't it be normalized? Do you think you'll catch the homosexuality gene by sitting next to gays? In order to get equal rights and a fair shake, it HAS to be normalized. Otherwise, people are going to continue to shun them as outcasts. Reminds me of that Andrew Dice Clay routine......give em 10% off vasoline ...now get back into the closet!

Um, there are already laws against discrimination based on sexual orientation. But nice effort.

Also, murder, rape, beastiality, incest and necrophilia have been a part of history throughout time too. Do you want to normalize them? (Not that homosexuality in ANY way compares to ANY of those, just refuting your "logic.")

[brianm23]

Gay people probably wouldn't raise their kids to be gay in most cases, still doesn't make it OK. Kids need a mom and a dad IMO.

In your opinion? Are there any stats that show mom/dad combos raise kids better than dad/dad or mom/mom?? Call me a Sith because I deal in absolutes. Show me the numbers if you want to spout off stupidity. At least have some evidence or fact to base your opinion on. What the hell is that Gay people wouldn't raise their kids to be gay comment? You can't teach "being gay" and you have no control over who you are attracted to. NONE. NADA. ZIP.

I voted yes. Honestly, I could care less, as it's not my place to determine what's right or wrong for someone else to do.

Holy ****, is this guy from the Bible belt for real? (NC) I thought I was the only odd ball here.

I think there are a handful of discriminatory practices in this country that CAN BE useful. The example I pointed out to you yesterday was the fact that women virtually ALWAYS get the kids in a divorce.

Is that discriminatory? You're damned right it is. Are most women better parents than men? IMHO, yes.

Like the guy above. You have any stats to prove women make better parents than men?

Likewise, I believe that the traditional family absolutely has merit and value, not just to the people involved, but to our communities and our country. You'll excuse me, I hope, if I cling to some of the things that took us from a group of wayward colonists to the greatest damned country on the planet in four generations.

I want to maintain the recognition that the traditional family structure IS the best way to go. It is.

I've also pointed out the fact that I fully support giving homosexual couples ALL of the rights of straight couples. I simply don't want it to be called a "marriage."

Couples. Couples in America don't get rights or possible tax breaks. Only married people do. So in essence, you don't want the gays go get equal rights then correct?

Traditional family structure. I hate to break the bad news to you, but we evolve as species. We once thought the earth was flat and to think otherwise was pure stupidity. I could go on with many traditional practices and thoughts that are laughable now, which also includes your view of the "traditional family structure".

You can continue to call the rest of us who disagree with you names, as opposed to actually acknowledging and adressing our ACTUAL reasons for doing so.

I can give you 1,000,000 reason to why I should be a racists and bigot, but does that make my reasons LEGIT? No, but thanks for playing.

Have you not seen me repeatedly post that I want to give homosexual couples ALL of the rights of straight couples?

Define "couples" please. Couples in America get no rights or benefits.

I see marriage as a religious institution, the government ought not intrude on it any further.

You realize marriage was around long before religion played a part in it.

[brandymac27]

Holy ****, is this GIRL from the Bible belt for real? (NC) I thought I was the only odd ball here.

Fixed that for ya! Yes, I live in Wilson, NC. But I was born a Yankee (born in CT and moved to NC when I was 5). The fact that I spent half of my childhood up north with family and going to school in NYC may have something to do with my "odd ballishness".

[81artmonk]

It's just the same as a Driver's License. It's just special. For those people who we don't want to be treated the same as everybody else.

OK with y'all?

Does it have all the same rights as a real DL?? Nothing will change. If so, I have no issue with it.

Who cares, all I want to do is be able to drive and use it to get a job.

[brianm23]

Um, there are already laws against discrimination based on sexual orientation. But nice effort.

Also, murder, rape, beastiality, incest and necrophilia have been a part of history throughout time too. Do you want to normalize them? (Not that homosexuality in ANY way compares to ANY of those, just refuting your "logic.")

If we have laws against sexual discrimination, how come gays are not allowed to serve in the military? Have a \_ (seat) because you just got :owned:

Also, did you just compare homosexuality with murder, incest, rape and necrophilia? :doh: (**** that disclaimer statement behind the comment you made)

You act as if homosexuality is a disease that we can cure them of. Sure fag, go take shock therapy and you'll be eating pink tacos in no time.

[brianm23]

Fixed that for ya! Yes, I live in Wilson, NC. But I was born a Yankee (born in CT and moved to NC when I was 5). The fact that I spent half of my childhood up north with family and going to school in NYC may have something to do with my "odd ballishness".

Nice to meet you brandymac, and there is certainly nothing with being different. Especially with the religious zealots around here. I live in Greenville by the way. My cousins and aunt/uncle grew up in Wilson. Small world

I think I need to ask the Admin around here to change my user id to BusDriver because I'm taking these kids to school.

[81artmonk]

Larry, all respect, but I don't see any of us changing any minds here.

Can we just agree that the people on my side aren't trying to restrict marriage because certain people are "icky?" We have other, in our opinions, legitimate reasons.

Likewise, I respect your staunch defense of the concept of equal treatment. (In most cases. ) But this head-beating session is at a stalemate, IMO.

Like I said before, this arguement falls into two catagories. Most in the first are religious or have religious learnings which taught them that homosexuality is wrong. While the other catagory would be those who have no problem with it.

Niether will ever come to a compromise, since both are so diametrically opposed to the other.

The religious side sees it as wrong and having nothing to do with bigotry but rather a moral issue, while the other side sees it (as larry does) in a equality light.

This really is a fruitless arguement since to put it nicely both sides see each others views as wrong and niether side gets why the other holds that belief. There really is no common ground.

I think areeging to disagree is about all we can accomplish here.

[brandymac27]

Nice to meet you brandymac, and there is certainly nothing with being different. Especially with the religious zealots around here. I live in Greenville by the way. My cousins and aunt/uncle grew up in Wilson. Small world

I think I need to ask the Admin around here to change my user id to BusDriver because I'm taking these kids to school.

Greenville huh? Not far at all. Maybe 40 minuted tops. Do you know of any Redskin's bars there?

[brandymac27]

Like I said before, this arguement falls into two catagories. Most in the first are religious or have religious learnings which taught them that homosexuality is wrong. While the other catagory would be those who have no problem with it.

Niether will ever come to a compromise, since both are so diametrically opposed to the other.

The religious side sees it as wrong and having nothing to do with bigotry but rather a moral issue, while the other side sees it (as larry does) in a equality light.

This really is a fruitless arguement since to put it nicely both sides see each others views as wrong and niether side gets why the other holds that belief. There really is no common ground.

I think areeging to disagree is about all we can accomplish here.

Smartest post in the thread.

[Larry]

Does it have all the same rights as a real DL?? Nothing will change. If so, I have no issue with it.

Who cares, all I want to do is be able to drive and use it to get a job.

And every time you rent a car, you'll have to pull out the state-issued card that says you're not allowed to have a "real" Driver's License.

Every time you apply for a job. Or insurance. Every time you write a check. Every time the Clerk at Home Depot wants ID to go with your credit card. Every time you buy beer (unless you're an Old Fart like me.) Or open a bank account. Check into a hospital. Apply for a job.

Every time you're pulled over, you'll have to hand the cop the special card that says you're "one of them". (And then sit there and wonder: If your Drivers License wasn't one of the special, different, ones, would he be writing that ticket?)

The card that you were given, because a bunch of people were willing, grudgingly, to give you a card that they say is just the same as a Driver's License, but they don't want you to have a Driver's License, because they don't think that society should be dignifying people like you by treating you the same as them. Because they want to "protect" Driver's Licenses from people like you. Don't want you to lessen their Driver's Licenses.

You'd fall for that?

[brianm23]

Like I said before, this arguement falls into two catagories. Most in the first are religious or have religious learnings which taught them that homosexuality is wrong. While the other catagory would be those who have no problem with it.

It's funny because I went to a christian school the majority of my life and went to church more than 1/2 of my life. (3 times weekly) I've evolved as a person mentally and physically. I no longer believe in the King James version of God, and I certainly don't give a crap whether Tom wants to be Steve.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

How can you say you don't have a strong opinion on it, then go say you don't think homosexuals should raise kids. I'd call that a pretty ****ing strong opinion buddy. Do you think you can teach sexuality to a person? Do you realize you have ZERO choice in who you are attracted to? I suggest you pick up a psychology book or two. Might do you some good.

I imagine homosexual desires are alot more "normal" than you think. People chose to repress it due to bigots and hate mongers like the very ones up here. If I were gay, I would hide it too.

I said I don't have a strong opinion on gay marriage, which was the thread title.

The post you quoted had my statement that said I don't believe it is a choice. I simply believe that kids shouldn't be raised by gay people. That that that you called everyone who you quoted a hatemonger is laughable.

I minored in Psychology. But thanks anyway Dr. Phil.

By the way a lot is two words.

[Redd]

The religious side sees it as wrong and having nothing to do with bigotry but rather a moral issue, while the other side sees it (as larry does) in a equality light.

I think agreeing to disagree is about all we can accomplish here.

Pretty much. I agree, when my parents raised me, they taught me that homosexuals was evil and Sunday School told me in the Bible that it was wrong. I thought it was bull**** then I think it's bull**** now.

[brianm23]

Greenville huh? Not far at all. Maybe 40 minuted tops. Do you know of any Redskin's bars there?

30 mins if that.

I go to Dr.Unks (drunks...lol) which is a sports bar 5 blocks from my house. The place was packed with Skins fans Monday night. It generally has a huge number of Redskins fans there.

http://www.myspace.com/drunksoasis

If you see the pics, notice the NFL ticket. 17 TVs.

[brianm23]

I said I don't have a strong opinion on gay marriage, which was the thread title.

The post you quoted had my statement that said I don't believe it is a choice. I simply believe that kids shouldn't be raised by gay people. That that that you called everyone who you quoted a hatemonger is laughable.

I minored in Psychology. But thanks anyway Dr. Phil.

By the way a lot is two words.

In other words, you have nothing to comeback with so you grasp at straws by picking up a typo (spacing) in my paragraph. Maybe I should have said "bigots or hatemongers" so that way you either could fall into one or the other category. In your case, bigot will do just fine.

Come back with reasoning and logic on why you don't think children should be raised by gay parents. Your opinion isn't cutting it in the discussion. At least have some basis on your thoughts. At least the religious nuts can claim the bible. What do you have?

[AsburySkinsFan]

In California, they already do. They have all the rights that married couples do. They can adopt, hospital visits, wills,health benefits,ect...So than why is legal marriage so important.

If they get everything a married couple gets they just aren't called married, than what's the big deal??

Then ban "marriage" for all people.

[laurent]

Homosexuals couples should be afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples, I really don't see how that's a big deal. Fine, if some of us want to hold onto the sacred interpretation of the word marriage call it something else, but let's treat them as equals, whether we agree with their lifestyle or not.

They pay taxes just the same, probably more so than heterosexual families with children, and are just as productive members as everybody else in this society.

Let them be miserable just like the rest of the married folks

[brianm23]

Then ban "marriage" for all people.

THIS is the best post yet. :applause: