Art Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 here's my plan, get rid of every tax, and then put a 35 % sales tax on everything. That way you're only taxed for what you buy.If you're rich and you don't buy that much you don't pay that much in taxes. Use taxes of this sort would be a perfect solution, though that may be a higher number than is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stophovr6 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Avatar List Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 0 Posts The Hogette .........The Cheerleader Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 20 Posts The Waterboy Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 100 Posts The Camp Fodder Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 150 Posts The Benchwarmer Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 300 Posts The Special Teams Ace Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 450 Posts ................ The Punter .......The Field Goal Team *NEW LEVEL* 550 POSTS Third String Avatars Requiring at Least 700 Posts The Role Player Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 1000 Posts The Rookie Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 1500 Posts The Backup Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 2000 Posts The Dirtbags Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 2500 Posts ......... The Starter Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 3000 Posts The Playmaker Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 3500 Posts The Gadget Play Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 4000 Posts ... The Deep Threat Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 4500 Posts The Return Threat Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 5000 Posts The Cover Corner Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 5500 Posts The QB Killa Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 6000 Posts The Bruiser *NEW LEVEL* 6500 Posts The Predator Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 7000 Posts The Heavy Hitter Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 8000 Posts The Pro Bowlers Standard Avatars Requiring at Least 9000 Posts The Franchise Player RING OF FAME ADDITIONS THE POSSE THE FUN BUNCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 It is a crowded field, but good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 The notion that Obama's election will bring a radical shaking up of the U.S Tax Code for the unprecented fleecing of the wealthy is as much a fantasy as the notion held by the "black woman nearly balling her eyes out" that Obama will take care of her now. Equally baseless, misguided notions. No one said the notion of Obama's election will bring about a radical shaking up of the U.S. Tax Code for the unprecedented fleecing of the wealthy. We all know the top rate of 91 percent before Kennedy lowered it, or 70 percent before Reagan did. It is unlikely we'd see Obama strive to go to those levels, thus, the fleecing will not reach unprecented levels. The fleecing will merely be expanded, which is exactly what Obama has stated would happen. He will tax those making more than X, whatever X is at the moment. Which is precisely why the notion of his supporters that HE will take care of them exists. He's said he would. Using the wealth of others to accomplish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Is this the ES Lords party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 That's a sweet Avatar you have Art. Wanna share? Stop. I read your PM and enjoyed the entry. I appreciate the need for avatars. For the first time since about Oct. 10th or so I've gotten a little free time. There are a number of items that require attention. You do not need -- and had better not -- think more attention to the one you would like resolved immediately is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 I understand that this thread wasn't intended for me, as I am not an angry, disgruntled, furious conservative, but I am an ecstatic, pleased, content liberal.But the above paragraph fails to illustrate Obama's actual stance versus that which you ascribe to him through the statement of one idiot. Obama has done more to call for people to serve their country in public service roles than any politician SINCE Kennedy. His message has been one of participation and sacrifice. For every loony that you quote thinking Obama is going to personally pay their mortgage, I can find one that says George Bush caused 9/11. And between you, me, and anyone else reading this thread, I wouldn't mention that advertisement out loud to anyone anymore. :2cents: I was not, and am not, a big fan of McCain. But, from a call for people to serve one's country, he not only lived it, but believed -- in my view incorrectly -- that every citizen is born with an obligation to serve. Obama didn't spend a great deal of time on national service in his campaign. He spent considerable time outlining his view of the American dream that if you try really hard, well, that's enough. The reason those who support him feel he is there for them is because he's painted a government that is there for them. Exxon Mobile made, in profit, $14.5 billion or something last quarter. They paid $34.5 billion in taxes last quarter. Tax them more so the folks who are having a hard time paying their gas bills have some relief. These are positions that create an environment and expectation that the government will provide. The mentality exists because the words seem to reflect that world view, not as a conspiracy theory. As for the ad, not only will I mention it again, you should expect to see it one day . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 You'll forgive me if I don't sympathize with you making over 250k. My god our country are full of greedy *******s. Really and truly. They don't give a **** about who they step on to get ahead as long as they get ahead. Art, I highly doubt a 4% increase is going to kill you. What? You aren't going to be able to afford that 4th 50" LCD TV to put in the bathroom now? Boo ****ing hoo.Cry about something important will you. The embodiement of the twisting of the American dream. Once it was to achieve success for yourself and your family. Now it is to be judged as not needing the money I've earned. The sympathy shouldn't be for me making over $250K. The sympathy should be for yourself in not understanding THAT is the dream this country holds for everyone. If we act to punish those who achieve to aid those who do not we serve to weaken the nation. But, for the record, I have two children who need an education I'd like to provide for. I would like to provide for my own retirement and health care of my wife when we are no longer working as she's a diabetic and will likely be costly down the road. But, even if I wished another television for my bathroom, the plain fact is the money is mine to blow on a television or give to a person I deem in need. It ought not be for you to covet, steal and distribute to those who've done nothing but take breath to earn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novascotiadiesel Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 the problem with art's tax ideology is that the wealthy do not pay their share of taxes, if they did there wouldn't be a problem. joe shmoe earns 60k a year has an overall tax responsibiltiy of 30% and pays every dime of it even though a break on tax would have a noticable difference in the quality of his life, some born into money privilige and advantage scumbag who only cares about himself uses every underhanded trick in the book to get out of paying his 30% ends up paying some tiny amount, and the savings he realizes has no noticable difference in the quality of his life what you ought to try to do is ban democracy, that will keep the people who started the game of life with 10% of the resources and advantages you did from ever interfering with your greedy little attempt to amass wealth while ignoring those less fortunate than you. i think it is wonderful that all you with self centered ideologies got obama shoved up your a** that is the wonderful thing about democracy, it gives the disadvantaged jsut a little shot at making a life for themselves check your history, america was created by people trying to get out from under the opression of the wealthy few, luckily there was somewhere they could go to get a fresh start, there is nowhere for the poor and opressed of america to run to (like a newly discovered land, as america was for the poor and disadvataged of europe) and your ideology looks to keep them down, but as we saw yesterday, that thinking has been jammed up the a** of those who espouse it and i can tell you this, from my vantage it looks pretty good lets hope he does tax you and give some of your surplus wealth to someone who could use it to level the playng field a bit for them, so they could enjoy a taste of the lifestyle you have. and america can get back to the basic principles of americaness, what was once a land of opportunity, not oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Is this the ES Lords party? You have incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redd Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Hmmm, while I agree with some of your points Art, I just can't get behind this group you're forming. Good luck with it though and I hope you find success. By the way I wasn't here last election and my state voted Republican last time. Was it this bad or worse after the election in the Tailgate guys?:whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Nova, The problem with your understanding of the tax system is it allows for the idiocy of the tax system, and reveals a fundamental problem with creating enough wealth in your family to provide a better life for your children. The entire federal income tax burden exists on just around 50 percent of all wage earners. This is disproportionately funded by those who make increasingly more money. It is correct that Joe has a problem. The government is taking too much from him, as it does for us all. The American democracy once determined it was acceptable to own people. I do not believe we ought begin to believe because a majority finds it acceptable to steal from some to give to others that we should embrace it as either valid or fair. America was founded on a system and dream of success. It was, and still is by some, considered GOOD to achieve that dream. To you it appears to be somewhat criminal to achieve success. My father was the first person in our family to ever move beyond high school. Neither he, nor I, were given a head start on the world of less fortunate I am apparently responsible for because of your fatally flawed belief those who do achieve are given what they have rather than having worked for it. There are some very lazy rich and poor people in the world. Excluding Paris Hilton from the equation, if we presume some who are poor try really hard and are still poor and some who are wealthy try really hard and become wealthy, the fundamental AMERICAN view that EACH person is more entitled to their earnings than someone else should exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 As someone who works in political media, this **** is pretty hilarious. Good luck. That’s not to say you should not do it, go for it, just that a lot of people just don’t understand what it takes to have the kind of effect you are talking about. Honestly, you should start small and see if you can effect local city elections. I don’t think you really understand how many small and lowly funded organizations that are out there that already attempt to gain attention through shock. Tens of thousands. This is not some new idea to make a controversial ad and try and get attention, not to mention that a TV station won’t even play that ad you describe in a million years. One of my many jobs was to track these orgs and their media during this election. To even begin to affect a congressional race you need probably a min of $100,000. For Presidential or Senatorial politics we are talking about well over 1 million (and that’s to even START to have an effect – and a tiny effect at that). So you might want to start fundraising today for 2036 elections, or as I said, start off small with local stuff. And as an interest group, you will be subject to high media costs (triple that of what candidates pay) on TV and radio. So if you wanted your controversial ad to run, let’s say in Northern VA (an important place this election and ones in the future) a 30 second ad would be just about $20,000 (for ONE) for an evening broadcast show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 here's my plan, get rid of every tax, and then put a 35 % sales tax on everything. That way you're only taxed for what you buy.If you're rich and you don't buy that much you don't pay that much in taxes. And what do you do about the massive, massive, massive black market that will spring up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helptheSKINS Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 the problem with art's tax ideology is that the wealthy do not pay their share of taxes, if they did there wouldn't be a problem. joe shmoe earns 60k a year has an overall tax responsibiltiy of 30% and pays every dime of it even though a break on tax would have a noticable difference in the quality of his life, some born into money privilige and advantage scumbag who only cares about himself uses every underhanded trick in the book to get out of paying his 30% ends up paying some tiny amount, and the savings he realizes has no noticable difference in the quality of his life what you ought to try to do is ban democracy, that will keep the people who started the game of life with 10% of the resources and advantages you did from ever interfering with your greedy little attempt to amass wealth while ignoring those less fortunate than you. i think it is wonderful that all you with self centered ideologies got obama shoved up your a** that is the wonderful thing about democracy, it gives the disadvantaged jsut a little shot at making a life for themselves check your history, america was created by people trying to get out from under the opression of the wealthy few, luckily there was somewhere they could go to get a fresh start, there is nowhere for the poor and opressed of america to run to (like a newly discovered land, as america was for the poor and disadvataged of europe) and your ideology looks to keep them down, but as we saw yesterday, that thinking has been jammed up the a** of those who espouse it and i can tell you this, from my vantage it looks pretty good lets hope he does tax you and give some of your surplus wealth to someone who could use it to level the playng field a bit for them, so they could enjoy a taste of the lifestyle you have. and america can get back to the basic principles of americaness, what was once a land of opportunity, not oppression. First off your description of the fair tax of off base. Second, if you want some of Art's money how about you try earning it yourself. Your idea of "democracy" is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 But, for the record, I have two children who need an education I'd like to provide for. I would like to provide for my own retirement and health care of my wife when we are no longer working as she's a diabetic and will likely be costly down the road. But, even if I wished another television for my bathroom, the plain fact is the money is mine to blow on a television or give to a person I deem in need. It ought not be for you to covet, steal and distribute to those who've done nothing but take breath to earn. So would you cut the Stafford/Perkins federal loan programs? Medicare for retired seniors? Social security? And what about the military? Shouldn't that go into the category of government programs to which people don't see a direct benefit and is therefore "stealing"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novascotiadiesel Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 haha, I don't want any of arts money! I earn just fine, I do great in fact and am very proud of what I have accomplished, I am not looking for a handout and wouldn't take it, but I am an ablebodied intelligent middleaged white man, who was fortunate enough to have been born into a family with solid workethic and instilled with the characteristics that allow for success, single parent mom who is a elemetary school teacher and grandfather who was a commercial fisherman I was raised in a very small rural town, not everyone gets these breaks what if i was raised in an innercity with no decent role models and a societal system that kept me down? how would I get a fair shot if I were not so lucky to hve been born where I was? these are the people who benfit a bit from some of the wealthy giving up a bit of their wealth, and I think it is a goo idea to have a thought for them and not just ourselves maybe you ought to give it a thought every now and then last night showed that some are and it made me feel good, the ideas expressed here do not make me feel good so I wrote as much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 What's the WoD?Our initial policy statement will take a position on gay marriage and abortion and taxes and many things. But, our driving fundamental will be small federal government and taxes. We won't be a strict pro-life or anti-gay marriage group, though we will have positions -- somewhat moderate -- in both areas. I.E. While we do not feel abortion should be used as a form of birth control and we oppose abortion in all cases but imminent danger to the mother when a child matures to be viable outside the mother, we also recognize that in cases of rape or incest, the mother should not be required to carry a child to term if that is not her wish. On Gay Marriage, we are strongly against altering the meaning of marriage, but do not care if a state or states wish to give homosexuals something akin to marriage if that is their value system. We would not be a religious organization. I seem to agree with Art on this. While I am Pro-Life, it is no longer a single issue decider for me. I am probably more of a Fiscal Conservative than social, and just leaning a bit towards libertarian views. Yeah I can see how a site/PAC like that could be useful. I feel much the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 If we do go with a flat tax. What deducations would be allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helptheSKINS Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 haha, I don't want any of arts money! I earn just fine, I do great in fact and am very proud of what I have accomplished, I am not looking for a handout and wouldn't take it, but I am an ablebodied intelligent middleaged white man, who was fortunate enough to have been born into a family with solid workethic and instilled with the characteristics that allow for success, single parent mom who is a elemetary school teacher and grandfather who was a commercial fisherman I was raised in a very small rural town, not everyone gets these breaks what if i was raised in an innercity with no decent role models and a societal system that kept me down? how would I get a fair shot if I were not so lucky to hve been born where I was? these are the people who benfit a bit from some of the wealthy giving up a bit of their wealth, and I think it is a goo idea to have a thought for them and not just ourselves maybe you ought to give it a thought every now and then last night showed that some are and it made me feel good, the ideas expressed here do not make me feel good so I wrote as much That's very inspiring and all but it's a bit of a load. Your idea of democracy is taking as much as possible from a few to take care of many. I've asked this question many times here and never got an answer. Please provide me with some social programs run by the govt that are run well. You can't because the govt is an utter disaster. Taking hard earned money and giving it to the govt to "spread out" as it wishes is a joke. I'll be waiting on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 That's very inspiring and all but it's a bit of a load. Your idea of democracy is taking as much as possible from a few to take care of many. Don't try to sneak that "as much as possible" crap in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helptheSKINS Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 If we do go with a flat tax. What deducations would be allowed? I'm assuming you are being sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. No need. Isn't it wonderful. Hundreds of billions saved on the IRS. Corporations would have far fewer costs and would be much more competitive in the US. MANY jobs created. Again, it won't happen for the next 4 years and well beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helptheSKINS Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Don't try to sneak that "as much as possible" crap in there. How is it crap when it's true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 While everything you say is accurate, it is also applied equally to the rich and the poor. Every citizen has the benefit of roads, the police, higher education and the like. It is uniform. The system allows for a person who could not even get in to the Democratic National Convention in 2000 to become President in 2008. Every American benefits from our strong military in exactly the same way. When you move beyond the system to the services the government provides, they are largely attuned to those deemed to be in need. Wealthy people do not qualify for educational grants, welfare or a future government run health care system. Which adds a different level of responsibility to those who would use these services to help pay for them, which, we current do not require. Wealthy people certainly do benefit from educational grants. Who do you think their employees are? It even drives down the price they have to pay their employees due to more people being able to do the job. I am sure Obama received grants as well. If you think a government run health care system is somehow bad, I think you're missing out. Small business will be able to grow because they will not have to supply their employees with healthcare benefits. I leave out large corporations because of course they'd give out premium care benefits. The only ones losing out in a government run health care system is the doctors and insurance companies. You are doing something that a lot of people do, you are confusing capitalism and democracy. In the original democracies wealthy people were expected to do much more than their fellow citizens. They would be commissioned to build, stock and employee entire war ships, put on games, build and fix buildings all on their lonesome. Don't confuse the priorities of Democracy and the priorities of Capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 How is it crap when it's true? He said: these are the people who benfit a bit from some of the wealthy giving up a bit of their wealth You said: Your idea of democracy is taking as much as possible from a few to take care of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.