Twas the night before the official end of conservativsm....

[SkinsHokieFan]

....tomorrow night we will see a seismic shift in the direction of this country as Barack Obama will win easily and have a super majority in Congress

And with that, it will mark the end of an era that really started in 1964 with Goldwater's nomination, accelerated in 1980 with Reagan's victory, fostered the rise of the DLC in the other party and crested with the re-election of George W Bush in 2004.

So I ask people, are we better off today then in 1980?

And will people ever yearn for truly small government again?

I truly believe the Goldwater/Reagan conservative movement at its root is the best movement for governing in America in the 21st century. I simply do not see when we will see it again for the next 50 years

[dcoles11]

it's the end of neo-conservatism.

[“Misdirection”]

My school did a mock election. Obama won 70 to 30 over McCain.

[Burgold]

No. They will yearn and still cry for a more efficient government, but if the Republican supermajorities have taught us anything. Everyone wants everything and the promise of smaller government is a mirage. Reagan didn't do it. Nixon didn't do it. Clinton didn't do it. Bush and Bush did not do it.

Small Government is a battle cry, but it's mostly a lie. Small government, that's like the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin. People believe in it and write letters to it, but there's not going to be a Miracle on 42nd Street, buster.

[SkinsHokieFan]

it's the end of neo-conservatism.

Neo-conservativsm had what? 5 years? 2001-2006?

I am talking more so about "government is not the solution. Government is the problem" type thinking in America

The last generation, really my entire lifetime, this has been a center right, keep the gov't to a minimum, taxes low, strong military, muscular foreign policy nation

And for the most part it has worked out fantastically, considering where we were in 1980 and where we are today

But the party is over

[zoony]

No. They will yearn and still cry for a more efficient government, but if the Republican supermajorities have taught us anything. Everyone wants everything and the promise of smaller government is a mirage. Reagan didn't do it. Nixon didn't do it. Clinton didn't do it. Bush and Bush did not do it.

Small Government is a battle cry, but it's mostly a lie. Small government, that's like the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin. People believe in it and write letters to it, but there's not going to be a Miracle on 42nd Street, buster.

I agree- Republicans not only didn't deliver their promise, they made the situation worse. They had the White House and Congress- and they failed miserably. Government is bigger than it ever has been.

I don't think this is a failure of conservatism so much as it is a failure by the Republican party.

McCain and Palin are still reading their talking points out loud for all to hear- problem is, nobody believes them. And rightfully so- why should they?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I agree- Republicans not only didn't deliver their promise, they made the situation worse. They had the White House and Congress- and they failed miserably. Government is bigger than it ever has been.

I don't think this is a failure of conservatism so much as it is a failure by the Republican party.

McCain and Palin are still reading their talking points out loud for all to hear- problem is, nobody believes them. And rightfully so- why should they?

Exactly. And again, lets be honest, nobody will believe them or small gov't people for probably the rest of our lives. It'll only take the extreme excess of liberalism, that started to rear its ugly head in the 60s and 70s, for the movement to gain traction again

And as you said, why should they?

[DjTj]

Obama wins Dixville Notch! 15-6 - a blowout!

Game. Over.

[Seabee1973]

I agree- Republicans not only didn't deliver their promise, they made the situation worse. They had the White House and Congress- and they failed miserably. Government is bigger than it ever has been.

I don't think this is a failure of conservatism so much as it is a failure by the Republican party.

McCain and Palin are still reading their talking points out loud for all to hear- problem is, nobody believes them. And rightfully so- why should they?

Its not all to blame on the republicans as they gave up control of congress 2 years ago

[dcoles11]

No. They will yearn and still cry for a more efficient government, but if the Republican supermajorities have taught us anything. Everyone wants everything and the promise of smaller government is a mirage. Reagan didn't do it. Nixon didn't do it. Clinton didn't do it. Bush and Bush did not do it.

Small Government is a battle cry, but it's mostly a lie. Small government, that's like the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin. People believe in it and write letters to it, but there's not going to be a Miracle on 42nd Street, buster.

Could not agree more. Maybe people will finally realize that Republicans have no interest in small government, they just want to spend money and expand government in different ways than Democrats do.

We are for gun rights, but a woman shouldn't have the right to choose.

Government should stay out of your life, but we want to define marriage.

The Patriot Act for god sakes, are you kidding me?

Their whole stance on religion is 180 degrees from the government staying out of our lives.

As Zoony said, conservatism didn't fail, the Republican Party has failed and they need to clean house.

[zoony]

Its not all to blame on the republicans as they gave up control of congress 2 years ago

ugh.

[Monte51Coleman]

Its not all to blame on the republicans as they gave up control of congress 2 years ago

It's more like control was taken from them. Just like the White House probably will be tomorrow.

But I get your point.

[dcoles11]

Its not all to blame on the republicans as they gave up control of congress 2 years ago

Ok i've let this slide far too many times. I'm done, i'm calling you out on this because it is beyond moronic.

You do realize it is 49 to 49 with 2 independents right?

And you do realize the president has the thing called veto power. Name me one piece of legislation the Democrat "controlled" congress pushed through that caused this mess.

I'll be waiting.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

I agree- Republicans not only didn't deliver their promise, they made the situation worse. They had the White House and Congress- and they failed miserably. Government is bigger than it ever has been.

I don't think this is a failure of conservatism so much as it is a failure by the Republican party.

McCain and Palin are still reading their talking points out loud for all to hear- problem is, nobody believes them. And rightfully so- why should they?

its funny when someone you politically disagree with you agree with.

[SkinsHokieFan]

It's more like control was taken from them. Just like the White House probably will be tomorrow.

But I get your point.

Whatever it is, the revolution, whose seed was planted in 1964 and started to blossom in 1980, 1994 and fully grew up in 2004 is now over

Ron Paul has a great message but is too old.

Anyone else with the charisma to come along with it? And will anyone actually listen to it this time?

[ChocolateCitySkin]

Whatever it is, the revolution, whose seed was planted in 1964 and started to blossom in 1980, 1994 and fully grew up in 2004 is now over

Ron Paul has a great message but is too old.

Anyone else with the charisma to come along with it? And will anyone actually listen to it this time?

keep dreaming no one has the cajones

[AsburySkinsFan]

What's amazing to me is that when Bush/Cheney/Rove entered the White House 8 years ago, the Rovian strategy was to give the GOP a permanent majority in DC, yet after 8 years they have succeeded in doing the exact opposite.

They've angered many of the moderates in their party, and this from Bush who was the centerist.

They've alienated independants

And in doing so they have built 8 years worth of stinging resentment and yes bitterness among much of the populace

We pretty much knew that whoever the GOP candidate was going to be that they'd have a tough row to hoe, but I don't think any of them expected the resentment to be this bad.

[dcoles11]

Its not all to blame on the republicans as they gave up control of congress 2 years ago

Further more, it's not "gave up" they had it taken from them, because the American people kicked them out.

You act as it if was a some sort of planned substitution, like the Republicans were running things to a tee and then all of a sudden those damn Democrats came in with their 49 senate seats and 2 wild card independent seats and took control of the senate, screwing up all the good the Republicans had done :doh:

I have to ask, do you even think about the things you post? Or do you just hear something and think it sounds good so you post it?

Because there is absolutely no way you can defend what you just posted with any sort of logic.

[SkinsHokieFan]

We pretty much knew that whoever the GOP candidate was going to be that they'd have a tough row to hoe, but I don't think any of them expected the resentment to be this bad.

To be honest, I don't think they expected the Obama movement. They were planning for Hillary, and could have beaten her

What is gonna be tougher is having George W Bush used against future Republicans for the next 50 years

[DjTj]

Neo-conservativsm had what? 5 years? 2001-2006?

I am talking more so about "government is not the solution. Government is the problem" type thinking in America

The last generation, really my entire lifetime, this has been a center right, keep the gov't to a minimum, taxes low, strong military, muscular foreign policy nation

And for the most part it has worked out fantastically, considering where we were in 1980 and where we are today

But the party is over

It was always a myth. Reagan created a great slogan with "government is the problem," but a platform that is defined by opposition is not a platform that can actually govern a country.

Reagan used the idea to great effect in demonizing the Democratic Congress, but at the same time, he ran huge deficits, and the Department of Education only grew larger and larger. Gingrich used the slogan again well in opposition to Clinton, but as much as people thought that government was the problem, they didn't like seeing the government shut down.

The truth is that the small government platform was always a mirage. It was never a true majority view. It unified people only under the idea that "government is bad for everything except for the things that I want." Republicans gained power by adopting certain groups that wanted things. The neo-cons left the Democratic Party because Reagan gave them big defense spending. The religious right got their social agenda. Bush was elected President on the backs of those two groups, and small-government proponents were pushed out.

This was inevitable. Once the neo-cons and the social conservatives gained full control of government, they would of course try to push their agenda to fit their policies. "Government is the problem" will always be a minority view. You will have to ally yourself with one group or another to gain control of the government, and whoever you choose will eventually gain control and expand the government with their views.

I think you're back where you're supposed to be - a political movement based upon opposing the government is much better suited for the minority. Keep fighting the good fight, keep the government in check, and be happy with smaller victories.

[dcoles11]

To be honest, I don't think they expected the Obama movement. They were planning for Hillary, and could have beaten her

What is gonna be tougher is having George W Bush used against future Republicans for the next 50 years

50 years? I hope but I doubt it. The American public has a short attention span and is very forgiving.

This dancing with the stars, american idol, the hills society won't even know who the president was on this date 20 years from now.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think you're back where you're supposed to be - a political movement based upon opposing the government is much better suited for the minority. Keep fighting the good fight, keep the government in check, and be happy with smaller victories.

The problem is our movement won't be able to stop anything for the next 50 years

The ameoba will grow and grow and grow with the coming entitlement bomb along with the added Obama entitlements

And I disagree that it is a movement ill suited to govern. Ultimately I think it can govern best, by refusing to continue to give and give and give until the nation is bankrupted

Limited federal gov't, power to the states and individuals is what this nation was founded on and governed on for a good chunk of our history

And I truly believe it can work, very well

[SkinsHokieFan]

50 years? I hope but I doubt it. The American public has a short attention span and is very forgiving.

This dancing with the stars, american idol, the hills society won't even know who the president was on this date 20 years from now.

Over the next 50 years, Republicans may hold the White House for 8-12 of them

Congress probably never

[dcoles11]

It was always a myth. Reagan created a great slogan with "government is the problem," but a platform that is defined by opposition is not a platform that can actually govern a country.

Reagan used the idea to great effect in demonizing the Democratic Congress, but at the same time, he ran huge deficits, and the Department of Education only grew larger and larger. Gingrich used the slogan again well in opposition to Clinton, but as much as people thought that government was the problem, they didn't like seeing the government shut down.

The truth is that the small government platform was always a mirage. It was never a true majority view. It unified people only under the idea that "government is bad for everything except for the things that I want." Republicans gained power by adopting certain groups that wanted things. The neo-cons left the Democratic Party because Reagan gave them big defense spending. The religious right got their social agenda. Bush was elected President on the backs of those two groups, and small-government proponents were pushed out.

This was inevitable. Once the neo-cons and the social conservatives gained full control of government, they would of course try to push their agenda to fit their policies. "Government is the problem" will always be a minority view. You will have to ally yourself with one group or another to gain control of the government, and whoever you choose will eventually gain control and expand the government with their views.

I think you're back where you're supposed to be - a political movement based upon opposing the government is much better suited for the minority. Keep fighting the good fight, keep the government in check, and be happy with smaller victories.

I don't have much to say.....

That was just extremely well put :applause:

[Monte51Coleman]

What is gonna be tougher is having George W Bush used against future Republicans for the next 50 years

I think your prediction of GWB being a anchor for the next 50 years is pretty melodramatic.

The next 25-30 years is probably more realistic.