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WP: Shapiro...Redskins Finally Got One Right

kleese

By kleese
in The Stadium

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kleese

kleese

Posted
Posted

Leonard Shapiro's latest (did a search and didn't find anything).... and then my emailed response:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...8102902956.html

Mr. Shapiro,

First of all, thank you for taking my email. I enjoy your columns, and I appreciate your time.

But I think you "missed" a bit in the premise of your latest piece. To say that Snyder and Cerrato "finally" got one right is to make the assumption that all of this happened overnight and they just blindy threw a dart at the board that happened to be a bullseye.

I would make the argument that they've slowly been "getting it right" for the past 4 years.

Joe Gibbs changed the culture of the team-- both on and off the field. He was no longer a brilliant gameday coach, and it probably held the Redskins back from achieving a bit more in his four years, but he did great things to the roster and instilled a renewed faith and hope in the franchise.

If you are going to bash Snyder and company for their misguided signings and draft picks in the past, then you must give them credit for the players brought in by Gibbs. Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Chris Cooley, Jason Campbell, Randy Thomas, Pete Kendall, Rocky McIntosh, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, etc.. are all high-level players brought in over the past 4-5 years. And it also appears the Redskins may be making great strides in identifying late-round and free agent talent (Chris Horton, Lorenzo Alexander, Stephon Heyer).

All of these things happened under Snyder and Cerrato. Perhaps your counter would be that those two men really had nothing to do with it, and it was all Gibbs. Well, then that is STILL a compliment to them-- especialyl Snyder. If he just handed over the reins and took a step back, then that's pretty much what the media had been begging him to do for years.

The hiring of Zorn was shrewd and by all accounts it was Cerrato who was in Snyder's ear convincing him to go with Zorn over the Jim Fassel's of the world.

Look, we all know it pains the WP to report positive things about the front office of the Redskins-- and I'm sure their dealings with the Post have made life frustrating and more difficult. But I think you're off the mark here. This did not happen overnight. They've been "getting it right" for awhile, although most local media have ignored it until now.

Thanks again for your time.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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Posted

Kleese, for me, the truth lies midway between you and Len Shapiro.

Dan Snyder gave Joe Gibbs the reins in 2004 and stepped away. Coming in, Joe's personnel policies were 180 degrees wrong. We were lucky that it only took the draft years 2004-2006 for Joe to realize his mistakes. After the dismal 2006 season, Joe Gibbs put us on a new course, one emphasizing the draft as the primary means of building the roster, and which promises to yield more young talent and greater depth.

During the fist two years of Gibbs Two, Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato were made scapegoats by people lacking the balls and intellectual honesty to blame HOF coach Joe Gibbs for the personnel mistakes.

However, even those of us who gave Dan and Vinny the benefit of every doubt in the hiring of Jim Zorn and Greg Blache could never have ever imagined that all the major questions we had coming into this season would have positive answers. They deserve a lot of credit.

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JoeGibbsRypenGClark91

JoeGibbsRypenGClark91

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Posted
Kleese, for me, the truth lies midway between you and Len Shapiro.

Dan Snyder gave Joe Gibbs the reins in 2004 and stepped away. Coming in, Joe's personnel policies were 180 degrees wrong. We were lucky that it only took two years for Joe to realize his mistakes. After the dismal 2006 season, Joe Gibbs put us on a new course, one emphasizing the draft as the primary means of building the roster, and which promises to yield more young talent and greater depth.

During the fist two years of Gibbs Two, Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato were made scapegoats by people lacking the balls and intellectual honesty to blame HOF coach Joe Gibbs for the personnel mistakes.

However, even those of us who gave Dan and Vinny the benefit of every doubt in the hiring of Jim Zorn and Greg Blache could never have ever imagined that all the major questions we had coming into this season would have positive answers. They deserve a lot of credit.

Your timeline is all wrong. The first year came off a 5-11 season. They were a poor team with no QB. Everyone got a free pass the first year.

The second year they went 10-6. That was the best season they had since Snyder bought the team in 99. So obviously you don't need a free pass for that.

The bad year was the third year. I had no idea what they were doing that year. And it was not just Gibbs. Vinny, Gibbs and the scouting staff all dropped the ball.

Last year they had so many injuries, death and they still made the playoffs.

People revise history. I think in your mind you were expecting magic. Truth is Joe Gibbs is human. Even Phil Jackson when he came back to the Lakers did not start winning until the 4th year. You need talent, health and luck.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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Posted
Your timeline is all wrong. The first year came off a 5-11 season. They were a poor team with no QB. Everyone got a free pass the first year.

The second year they went 10-6. That was the best season they had since Snyder bought the team in 99. So obviously you don't need a free pass for that.

The bad year was the third year. I had no idea what they were doing that year. And it was not just Gibbs. Vinny, Gibbs and the scouting staff all dropped the ball.

Last year they had so many injuries, death and they still made the playoffs.

People revise history. I think in your mind you were expecting magic. Truth is Joe Gibbs is human. Even Phil Jackson when he came back to the Lakers did not start winning until the 4th year. You need talent, health and luck.

Your year-by-year comments are not relevant to my post.

My post had to do with the failed personnel policies of the team covering the draft years 2004 to 2006. After the 2006 season, Gibbs put us on a new course for 2007.

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JoeGibbsRypenGClark91

JoeGibbsRypenGClark91

Posted
Posted
Your year-by-year comments are not relevant to my post.

My post had to do with the failed personnel policies of the team covering the draft years 2004 to 2006. After the 2006 season, Gibbs put us on a new course for 2007.

That was Snyders and Vinnys motto. Trade picks and get veterans. Rememeber 2000? The Jetskins? I guess Gibbs just bought into to start and realized it was not working after that horrible 5-11 year. He deserves blame for not changing it from the start but he was gone 12 years. That is not a normal amount of time to be gone from anything.

So i guess you are half right.

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Neophyte

Neophyte

Posted
Posted

OF, you act like the first two years were a complete waste which I just can't fathom. Gibbs philosophy in the first two years brought us Washington, Griffin, Springs, Portis, Cooley, Taylor and Rabach. In fact, the only move in the first two years that I did not like then and still have a bad taste in my mouth from is the Mark Brunell trade.

The only year that I think Gibbs was totally off the reservation is 2006 when the team paid through the nose for Lloyd, AA, ARE and Carter. Now, 3 years later, we know that the first two of those were very bad moves although a lot of folks thought all 4 of them were bad at the time.

You could argue that we failed to keep a few "core" Redskins in the first two years of Gibbs when we let Smoot and Pierce get away but I blame Williams for those losses more than Joe. Gregg thought it was more about his system than the players and he could make it go with any warm body. If he had said "I need these guys" then Joe would have made it happen (or so I think).

So I just don't get how you are so down on Gibbs the first two years. In fact, we are watching Zorn win with Gibbs hand picked guys as nearly all the starters are Gibbs choices (Horton on defense, Samuels and Jansen on offense and Plackemeir the punter being the only exceptions). If anything, Zorn is proving that Gibbs personnel moves were more solid than his coaching this last time around.

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Dirk Diggler

Dirk Diggler

Posted
Posted

Here's the article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/29/AR2008102902956.html

But I can save you 3 minutes of your life because it's one giant backhanded compliment by a sad, bitter sack of crap. Here's a synopsis:

Synder is a fan-boy owner, Cerrato is a yes-man.

Nobody wanted to take the job so Zorn was really the HC by default. But I want to give Snyder/Cerrato credit (for getting lucky with Zorn).

I would like to add that even though I was completely wrong about the Skins chances this year, I can list a bunch of other people who were too.

Snyder is an idiot if he doesn't tear up Zorn's contract and give him a big raise immediately. (There, now I can go right back to calling Snyder an idiot in 2 weeks, even if Skins continue to win)

Skins need to continue to get lucky in the second half of the season or I take back all my backhanded compliments.

The End.

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Larry Brown #43

Larry Brown #43

Posted
Posted

But I can save you 3 minutes of your life because it's one giant backhanded compliment by a sad, bitter sack of crap. Here's a synopsis:

Synder is a fan-boy owner, Cerrato is a yes-man.

Nobody wanted to take the job so Zorn was really the HC by default. But I want to give Snyder/Cerrato credit (for getting lucky with Zorn).

I would like to add that even though I was completely wrong about the Skins chances this year, I can list a bunch of other people who were too.

Snyder is an idiot if he doesn't tear up Zorn's contract and give him a big raise immediately. (There, now I can go right back to calling Snyder an idiot in 2 weeks, even if Skins continue to win)

Skins need to continue to get lucky in the second half of the season or I take back all my backhanded compliments.

The End.

Spot-on summary, Dirk. I had to read the column just to compare, and you pretty much nailed it. I guess all of us blind homers who expected that the Skins would actually make noise in the division and surpass the expectations placed on them by the media were not so blind after all.

Indeed, my favorite part of the column was when he rationalized his previous position by essentially saying, "hey, a lot of other observers thought the Skins would suck too."

Yeah, we know Len. Everyone in the media said we'd finish in last place. It's always fun when we fans end up looking smarter than the people who get paid to write and talk about this stuff for a living. :)

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Ernie5

Ernie5

Posted
Posted

My interpretation of Oldfan's point is that Gibbs did some positive things and also made some personnel blunders every bit as grand as Snyder did before him, but people were always much more willing to knife Snyder and/or Cerrato in the back that confront Joe's legend. It's a completely valid point.

Snyder stepped away when he hired Schottenheimer, didn't like where Marty Moose was taking the team (I suppose) and took the team back. There was some fear that the same thing would happen this year, but the difference is large: Spurrier was a coach who wanted little to no control over personnel and Cerrato was newly back in the fold (after his 1 year Marty exile) and, perhaps, not ready, in Synder's mind, to take over personnel decisions.

I would also point out that even when Spurrier was here, Snyder signed every stupid Gator the Ballcoach wanted and had no glitzy, big name free agent signings (although that might have been preferable). When Gibbs came back, Snyder had already shown that he'd learned from the debacle of the 2000 free agent class.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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Posted
Neophyte: OF, you act like the first two years were a complete waste which I just can't fathom.

That's a strawman argument. That's not my position.

Because of the economics dictated by NFL policies, the draft has to be the PRIMARY way of building a strong roster. From the draft years 2004 - 2006, Joe Gibbs tried and failed to prove otherwise. He spent too much in free agency, traded up in the draft far too often, and traded too many picks for vets. After the 2006 season, he set us on the right course.

The team has been done pretty well with it's limited draft picks. we would be a better team now if we had not traded so many picks away (2004 - 2006).

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dez_mick

dez_mick

Posted
Posted
Here's the article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/29/AR2008102902956.html

But I can save you 3 minutes of your life because it's one giant backhanded compliment by a sad, bitter sack of crap. Here's a synopsis:

Synder is a fan-boy owner, Cerrato is a yes-man.

Nobody wanted to take the job so Zorn was really the HC by default. But I want to give Snyder/Cerrato credit (for getting lucky with Zorn).

I would like to add that even though I was completely wrong about the Skins chances this year, I can list a bunch of other people who were too.

Snyder is an idiot if he doesn't tear up Zorn's contract and give him a big raise immediately. (There, now I can go right back to calling Snyder an idiot in 2 weeks, even if Skins continue to win)

Skins need to continue to get lucky in the second half of the season or I take back all my backhanded compliments.

The End.

Great synopsis. Sounds like Lenny doesn't like the taste of his crow. Swallow hard you crotchety old hack!

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted

I mostly agree with Dirk. However, I don't think Shapiro's view of Snyderatto is unreasonable. This is the first season they've really had any success (without JG) since the Norv era. Furthermore, most of us were skeptical of a first year HC installing a new offense with a QB on whom, who pretty much all of us agreed, the jury was still out.

Where I disagree with Shapiro is on Cerrato. I've been a huge critic of the guy but in retrospect I think much of the failures we've experienced during the Snyderatto years had to do with Snyder doing his own thing and not listening to Cerrato. Now that Cerrato is really at the helm, he's done a decent job and is to be commended for it.

In short, it was a somewhat bitter article, full of backhanded compliments...with just a smidge of truth mixed in. :)

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