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Latest McCain Lie: Obama is a Socialist

The Sisko

By The Sisko
in The Tailgate

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted

OK, so I’ve been hearing all this foolishness about Obama being a socialist for the past week or so. I’ve been meaning to point out to all of you why this is foolishness but haven’t had the time up until now. So, here goes.

First, socialism by definition involves redistribution of income. That is, taking from the “haves” to give to the “have nots” in an effort to enhance fairness. That being the case, we’ve by definition been a socialist country through both Donkey AND Elephantine administrations since we adopted a progressive tax code.

OK, but “I’ve always supported a flat tax” you say. The problem with that line of reasoning is that even a flat tax is socialist since it is calculated as a percentage of income. Thus it also requires those with more money/income to pay more in taxes than those with less money/income. Ditto that for a consumption tax.

The only way around it is for everyone to pay the same dollar amount every year. Unfortunately, that solution has the effect of redistributing income upwards since a $1000 tax is much more painful in relative terms for someone earning $20,000 a year than to someone who earns say $100,000 a year.

Second, most of the programs that this country relies on to survive are actually socialist. Medicare/medicaid? Socialism. Social security? Socialism. Free school lunch program? Socialism. Earned income tax credit? Definitely socialism. Can any of you honestly say that any of these programs need to be scrapped? If so, I hope you’re ready and willing for Mom and Dad to move in with you. And their medical bills? You’re on the hook for those too.

Now, I’m sure you all knew and expected that the programs I mentioned above are socialist and probably some of you are willing to say “Get rid of that crap. I’m a rugged individualist.” OK, but how about all those great deductions you’re used to getting on your taxes like the mortgage interest deduction, dependents, age, blindness etc. All those things lower your taxes and hence divert income away from others who don’t have access to those deductions.

Finally, and I saved the best for last, what of corporate welfare? While that’s not strictly socialism because it redistributes income upwards, it nonetheless never seems to elicit the same type of outrage from folks who seem to be so very bothered by socialism. In fact, one almost never hears it brought up in these threads.Why could that be?

Nevermind the fact that corporate welfare dwarfs TANF by a factor of three: $92 billion for corporate welfare vs. $28.5 billion for TANF (welfare). Of course, poor companies like Exxon need all that money from the government to help them pay tax lawyers to avoid paying their taxes and to provide millions in executive compensation and golden parachutes.

So, answer me this. Why hasn’t McCain or the GOP jumped on the bandwagon against corporate welfare? What about fixing the socialist tax code and promising to abolish the socialist entitlement programs (social security, medicare etc.)? After all, as I pointed out above, even if McCain wins and allows the Bush tax cuts to become permanent, he’s still endorsing a very socialist system.

Instead of saying Obama is a socialist, and saying he’s the capitalist, McCain might want to instead tell the truth and say he’s the “less socialist” option. Of course to become a true capitalist by saying he'd aboloish corporate welfare and all those entitlement programs would mean certain defeat next month…probably without winning a single state. Why? Because we Americans are hypocrites. We say we abhor socialism – except when it benefits US personally, in which case we’ll rationalize it and fight for it to the political death.

Good day sir.

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Toe Jam

Toe Jam

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I can't wait until this election is over (assuming an Obama victory). But then, where will all the hate go? Will McCain call off the dogs, or will he still claim that there's a Socialist Terrorist in the White House? Will it ever end?

It will be rough for the first year after Obama gets elected. There are going to be alot of Republicans who refuse to accept an Obama presidency.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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It will be rough for the first year after Obama gets elected. There are going to be alot of Republicans who refuse to accept an Obama presidency.
That will be no different than any other election.

McCain used to be the hero to the Dems.

I like to think of it as 2 minute hate, from Orwells 1984.

You would think the Left would be ecstatic with this election. They have both horses in the race.

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No_Pressure

No_Pressure

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First, socialism by definition involves redistribution of income. That is, taking from the “haves” to give to the “have nots” in an effort to enhance fairness. That being the case, we’ve by definition been a socialist country through both Donkey AND Elephantine administrations since we adopted a progressive tax code.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

Socialism:

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

1. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2. a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3. a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

--------------------------

With that said (and my only involvement in a political thread in a while) both Omaba and McCain support socialist ideals and you're right it has unfortunately been a part of this country since the 30's en masse. The only real division between republicans and democrats today are whether you want a group that leans more towards eventual communism or eventual fascism. I'll let everybody figure out which one is which, but while the public squabbles over complete bull**** battle lines such as which candidate "looks less like a president", "has more experience", "is really old", "is too young", "doesn't like abortion or gays", "does like abortion or gays" our personal freedoms are being whittled away no matter what.

In the end it's all the same, the real america these candidates talk about has been dead for over 100 years and it's never coming back. It was voted away by idiots who don't understand the difference between soclialism at the state level vs. the federal level, and those votes were eagerly taken by politicians who are good at fooling the public but really just want more power and more control over the American people.

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

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That will be no different than any other election.

McCain used to be the hero to the Dems.

I like to think of it as 2 minute hate, from Orwells 1984.

You would think the Left would be ecstatic with this election. They have both horses in the race.

Not true at all.

You might have a point if it weren't for the "horse" running behind McCain. :(

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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Not true at all.

You might have a point if it weren't for the "horse" running behind McCain. :(

That is about the long and short of it, right?

McCain WAS a Left wing favorite for a long time. I know he was towing GOP bull**** lines for a while, but he still has a much longer voting record that leans further left than Biden, if I'm not mistaken.

I can see why the attacks on Palin, but on McCain, it seems odd.

Their policy and platforms aren't even that different.

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

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That is about the long and short of it, right?

McCain WAS a Left wing favorite for a long time. I know he was towing GOP bull**** lines for a while, but he still has a much longer voting record that leans further left than Biden, if I'm not mistaken.

I can see why the attacks on Palin, but on McCain, it seems odd.

Their policy and platforms aren't even that different.

I mean I guess the easy answer would be "yes" to what you're saying.

I was heavily considering throwing my support behind McCain until his campaign took an extremely nasty turn and he tried to appeal so much to the base of the GOP. Once he picked Palin and I learned more about her, I was back behind Obama 100%.

I know a lot of other moderate voters that feel the same way.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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Once he picked Palin and I learned more about her, I was back behind Obama 100%.

I know a lot of other moderate voters that feel the same way.

I know a lot also, who felt the same way. I think he initially gained because of the female vote and was taking from those who generally didn't like Obama, but when he picked Palin, it didn't help with those votes, but did recharge the base.

Doesn't matter, from the looks of things, it'll be Obama who is 100% behind all of us.:silly:

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

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I know a lot also, who felt the same way. I think he initially gained because of the female vote and was taking from those who generally didn't like Obama, but when he picked Palin, it didn't help with those votes, but did recharge the base.

Doesn't matter, from the looks of things, it'll be Obama who is 100% behind all of us.:silly:

You seem like an intelligent dude, so for all of our sake - I hope you're dead wrong about your opinion of Obama. :cheers:

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