Campbell and reading a defense (long)

[PortisBetts]

First off, let me say, thank god we have Clinton Portis because he is our spark. Thats bad. I do not think our RB should be our spark. Cambell provides no confidence into our offense. He does not have that spark. He is not a winner. He has no sense of urgency.

I know i am new but i have watched football since i was 3 years old. I understand that campbell is in a new offense. I have been excited since he was drafted to see what he can do. Here is the facts. He has been in the league for 4 years. Whether he played does not make a difference. Whether he has been in a new offense every year does not make a difference. Why you ask? Here is the reason. After 4 years, he can still not read an NFL defense. It does not matter what offense you are in. After 4 years, you should have an understanding of what defense is coming at you. For the amount of time this man studies, he should be able to at least understand what defense is coming, where the blitzes are coming from, and at least a slight idea of what type of coverage is coming at you. He looks consistently confused and either rushes his throws or throws into coverage.

I refuse to believe that Gibbs and co. did not try to teach him this aspect of the game. He looks unbelievably confused at anything a defense throws at him. He has no idea where to look no matter what the defense does. He is easily confused. He makes no adjustments at the line whether it is a run or a pass. Portis was stuffed many times because he did not make simple adjustments at the line, such as the time he was stuffed by Tuck when Cooley was single teamed on him. Campbell needs to make an adjustment at the line and adjust the blocking. Cooley can not block Justin Tuck one vs. one. I dont think many TE's can. He did not recognize it. Stuffed many times.

Yes, Campbell has an arm. I want him to succeed because i want to win now, but come on. If there is people blitzing, you need to call an audible and adjust to either a run the opposite way, a quick pass, or adjust the protection. He does neither. No matter how much he studies, i dont see any kind of improvement in any part of his game.

I honestly believe that campbell will be replaced by the middle of the season. I have been a fan and rooted for campbell, and as long as he is starting i will still root for him to succeed. Do i believe he will turn the corner? No. I think Brennan is our future. He has an aura about him. He has that gamer attitude that he will try to win no matter what. There is no urgency in Campbell no matter what the situation and i cant stand it. He cant feel the pocket. You can not teach that. It has been 4 years now and he can not make simple steps to avoid the rush. The first play showed it and i was hoping it was a fluke, but he did it all game. He does not have any kind of killer instinct.

Colt Brennan has this, it was on display in the preseason, whether against third stringers or not, he showed the basics of moving in the pocket, avoiding the rush, and making plays out of nothing. I thing the Redskins need to make a big decision on where they are going at the QB position because I dont trust Campbell to make an instinct decision. Thats what QB's need. Instincts. Trust themselves. Campbell has no confidence in himself and it is conveyed to the rest of the offense.

I want Brennan to play. Campbell had his shot, has showed no intelligence no matter how much he studies, and makes the same mistakes. I mean come on. With 5 minutes left, Campbell did no take any chance. The one he took to the end zone, he tossed it up. It reminded me of Eli Manning. Madden even said it which is pathetic. Had he thrown to Moss's outside shoulder, he would have had better shot which after watching a replay, totally true. I feel like he will just not cut it ever. He doesnt exert that energy into his team mates.

Zorn did not call the greatest game, but tell me it wasnt because he did not trust campbell to either make the correct reads or make an accurate enough pass. There were times tonight that there that Campbell was just not accurate. Campbell seems as if he does not have an idea of where the first down marker is. With 3 minutes left he is throwing underneath passes? I would rather him take a chance and throw a pick then show no confidence in anyone and take an underneath pass. Favre has thrown the most INT's ever and look where he is.

I just do not feel that Campbell can even manage a game. He is only good in the no huddle and have never really seen him do much with the huddle. I think that as long as he is in, we will be an 8-8 team at best. With the talent on our team, that is unacceptable. Especially with the defense picking their game up when they need to like they always do. I will stop now because i wrote a lot and ive been drinking. If i am out of line or disagreed with just delete this post but i think i this is the thoughts of a lot of fans and even Zorn.

:helmet:

[acason5]

I'm not here to bash on JC, but I was just sick that he threw that 4th down pass to Ladell. He NEEDS to throw for the first down. If it gets picked off it wouldn't matter. It's a turnover on downs anyway. There were countless drives that stalled because passes were thrown short of the first down marker. That was frustrating to watch. Hopefully it is improved next game.

[Ghost of]

I wonder if there is the possibility that Joe really just blew this pick? What I mean is, he totally blew that Auburn trip. Considering what we MIGHT have had instead of what we got from that Auburn trip, I don't know. I just think we should have kept ____ Smoot and drafted Merriman, Ware, hell, damn near anyone. Not trading picks for Campbell and just going with Brunell or Ramsey at QB until we found a good replacement/star for the future.

It's odd, because Joey T was not some kind of QB robot. He had fire and an edge. Rypien was somewhat stoic but I don't think it's as if Joe ONLY coached ONE type of guy. I'm not sure why he assumed that a guy with an arm (who almost never uses his mobility) and a calm-seeming demeanor is the answer.

[aszumilo]

If they don't start to make adjustments and do better at blocking, he may be replaced sooner than you think, because of injury.

[MartinC]

I'm not here to bash on JC, but I was just sick that he threw that 4th down pass to Ladell. He NEEDS to throw for the first down. If it gets picked off it wouldn't matter. It's a turnover on downs anyway. There were countless drives that stalled because passes were thrown short of the first down marker. That was frustrating to watch. Hopefully it is improved next game.

I agree 100% about the throwing a 5 yard pass on 3rd and 6 and then punting. That has to stop. Happened at least 3 times maybe 4 before the last 4th down play.

Not sure if it is the design of the play, the play calling or the execution (receivers not getting past the sticks before they make their cut). Whatever its not good enough.

However on that 4th down play there was a great replay shot from behind Campbell which showed he had Cooley over the middle running a hook I assume at the marker - he was covered. He has a receiver deeper on the right who also hooked up in the zone but was doubled. Campbell held it waiting - hoping? - one of them would make a move a shake coverage but they just stood still. Betts was the only place he could have gone with the ball with the rush closing.

Personally my comment on the whole offense is they are playing without confidence and the play calling reflects that Zorn has not got confidence in them either.

Zorn is worried about the lines ability to pass block (they actually got better as the game wore on and maybe the Giants line got tired) and so he is reluctant to call 5 step drops and everything in the passing game is quick outs and hooks.

That brings the D up to the line and there is no room for anything run or run after the catch on passing plays.

The run game needs more consistent blocking - Portis had some good runs but too many were blown up in the backfield because our line and Colley were getting beat across their face with backside pursuit. Note to Zorn on Cooley great receiving TE mediocre blocker - don't ask him to block a DE on a running play 1-2-1.

Also the stupid wide receiver offsides have to stop. Lets not beat oursleves.

I really worry were we are going to get explosive plays from. We just don't seem to want to challenge the D up the field - we had one stop and go route deep to Santana off play action and he had a step or maybe two but stopped on the route because he thought the play was over when Campbell had actually avoided the rush and thrown it deep to him. If he keeps running full speed on that he may score.

Late in the game we threw a ball deep to Thrash which he had a shot at catching in the corner (you know Burress would have made that catch for 6) and one to Moss which he threw inside instead of outside were Moss might have had a shot. Thats 3 passes challenging their secondary deep the whole game and 2 of those were in the last 60 seconds when the game was lost. Not good enough.

Zorn has to take the handcuffs off and stop calling a damage control game plan. Lets be aggressive and play to win not try to minimise mistakes and hope something good happens.

Its early and it was too much to expect us to come out with everything looking smooth on the O. Its going to be like this for a few weeks while Zorn and the players get things down I guess

[eljeasel]

I agree 100% about the throwing a 5 yard pass on 3rd and 6 and then punting. That has to stop. Happened at least 3 times maybe 4 before the last 4th down play.

Not sure if it is the design of the play, the play calling or the execution (receivers not getting past the sticks before they make their cut). Whatever its not good enough.

However on that 4th down play there was a great replay shot from behind Campbell which showed he had Cooley over the middle running a hook I assume at the marker - he was covered. He has a receiver deeper on the right who also hooked up in the zone but was doubled. Campbell held it waiting - hoping? - one of them would make a move a shake coverage but they just stood still. Betts was the only place he could have gone with the ball with the rush closing.

Personally my comment on the whole offense is they are playing without confidence and the play calling reflects that Zorn has not got confidence in them either.

Thanks. Anyone able to look at the game and see how many checkdowns were because there was no one actually open downfield?

[KDawg]

There were probably a bunch. And that stems from:

1) Campbell not releasing the ball sooner. He holds the ball too long. (I don't hate Campbell, by the way, I like the guy)

2) The offensive line was so shoddy that if I were Campbell I'd be gunshy too. Gee, this looks familiar, who elses growth was stunted because of a lack of protection?

3) The receivers don't do much to get themselves open.

[Sonny9TD]

Y____ Smoot and drafted Merriman, Ware, hell, damn near anyone. Not trading picks for Campbell and just going with Brunell or Ramsey at QB until we found a good replacement/star for the future.

It's odd, because Joey T was not some kind of QB robot. He had fire and an edge. Rypien was somewhat stoic but I don't think it's as if Joe ONLY coached ONE type of guy. I'm not sure why he assumed that a guy with an arm (who almost never uses his mobility) and a calm-seeming demeanor is the answer.

You have to have a smart QB.

[DCMONEY]

Man can Jason get a chance to grasp this system. Matt Hasselbeck's didn't start until his 3rd year in the league but even then he had been learning in the SAME WCO for 2 years before moving on the the Seahawks and starting. Guess what? His #'s were no better than Jason's last year. I mean you can't keep changing and expect to grow.

Hasselbeck completed in his 3rd year started in the SAME system to boot.

He threw for 2023 yards. Completes 54% of his passes. 7 td's and 8 ints. He didn't come out like gang busters folks.

[ldysknzfn1]

I want Brennan to play. Campbell had his shot, :helmet:

You could have saved yourself alot of time and typing if you'd just get to your point. You typed all of that to say this.

Yes, Jason didn't play well, at times he looked inept. I, personally, don't believe CB is ready to be a starter in this league. But I have zero doubt that if JC continues to struggle as he did last night, almost every fan(& this includes our fan/owner)will demand Colt be put in there. I wonder what people will say when he fails. Everyone always wants what isn't there...the problem is...usually when they get what they want...it isn't as sweet as they thought it would be.:2cents:

*edit* Let me also add that the majority of the people calling for JC's ousting are the same folks who wanted JC to start b/c they thought Brunell was done.(not all...but most..there are some who didn't want JC to begin with that are backing up this choir). Therefore, same situation, insert different players' names. This board was full of people calling for Campbell to start at that time, now that he is the starter...look what's happening, not turning out the way they envisioned..therefore out with him! So there's your answer...fans want to win INSTANTLY!

[RandyHolt]

I dont like an offense when all the receivers run to a spot and stand there like an idiot. One WR should always be moving, especially on a 4th and pending loss. I wish when I played football, that the receivers had their feet in cement.

Hitting Santana running across the field for our lone TD is a perfect example of how Jason can win in this league. Moss running a 2 yd route and stopping is HORRIBLE and cannot and will not work in this league. You wonder why Jason hesitates? he probably cant see him over the DE, the MLB is about to smack him, and the corner is standing right behind him. Jason my not be perfect but he knows when a 2 yd pass is trouble.

[MartinC]

2) The offensive line was so shoddy that if I were Campbell I'd be gunshy too. Gee, this looks familiar, who elses growth was stunted because of he held the ball too long and got pounded?

quote]

Well the O'line were not fantastic but they did actually do a reasonable job of pass protection - I though the run blocking was worse to be honest. I have neither the inclination nor the bloody mindiness needed to go back and break down the game but even though the Giants blitzed a ton early we actually kept Campbell pretty clean.

Even the sack on the first play was down to Campbell holding the ball waiting for a route to come open rather than checking off and then inexplicably sliding towards the pressure rather than, you know, away!

The line does need to play better especially in the run game when there were too many times they were beaten off the ball and plays were blown up in the backfield. But actually they did well enough that we could have been effective passing. We gave up 1 sack and we got 2 and had quite a few hurries like the one Carter got which lead to Smoots pick.

Zorn needs to trust the line will pass block and not just call 3 step drops, Campbell needs to trust himself and his reads and make quicker decisions and then throw the ball with authority and the receivers need to be told in no uncertain terms to get past the damn sticks on 3rd down.

[eljeasel]

Well the O'line were not fantastic but they did actually do a reasonable job of pass protection - I though the run blocking was worse to be honest. I have neither the inclination nor the bloody mindiness needed to go back and break down the game but even though the Giants blitzed a ton early we actually kept Campbell pretty clean.

Even the sack on the first play was down to Campbell holding the ball waiting for a route to come open rather than checking off and then inexplicably sliding towards the pressure rather than, you know, away!

The line does need to play better especially in the run game when there were too many times they were beaten off the ball and plays were blown up in the backfield. But actually they did well enough that we could have been effective passing. We gave up 1 sack and we got 2 and had quite a few hurries like the one Carter got which lead to Smoots pick.

Zorn needs to trust the line will pass block and not just call 3 step drops, Campbell needs to trust himself and his reads and make quicker decisions and then throw the ball with authority and the receivers need to be told in no uncertain terms to get past the damn sticks on 3rd down.

I agree, that first sack is Campbells fault. Other than that, pass pro was sufficient Id say. When pass pro broke down, Campbell moved around well or got rid of the ball before the sack. They couldnt run block enough to get the rungame really going. That being said our backs played real tough.

[hoskins]

Maybe on adjustment Zorn needs to make is he should let Rabach make the line adjustments. IIRC, under Gibbs/Saunders, it was Rabach who did that. Under Zorn, it's the QB.

Campbell is obviously overwhelmed mentally. Either that will get better with time or it won't, we don't know yet. But at least we can take some things off his plate for now. Like blocking schemes. Like the formation call (would it be that hard for Zorn just to call the formation through the headset when he calls the play. One less thing for JC to think about)

[phatboy41]

This is actually something I noticed last night. If you watch JC, when the opposing defense changes their look and shows you their blitz or that they're going to drop in coverage, JC does nothing to adjust the offense. Eli was constantly making calls at the line of scrimmage. This may be because Zorn doesn't want JC to change any plays from the line of scrimmage, I'm not sure, but it seemed like everytime he didn't adjust our offense and the made adjustments, we got ripped apart.

[BDOG510]

Campbell is a moron, even a moron can see that. Got the intellect of an oatmeal cookie.

[PlayAction]

Maybe on adjustment Zorn needs to make is he should let Rabach make the line adjustments. IIRC, under Gibbs/Saunders, it was Rabach who did that. Under Zorn, it's the QB.

Campbell is obviously overwhelmed mentally. Either that will get better with time or it won't, we don't know yet. But at least we can take some things off his plate for now. Like blocking schemes. Like the formation call (would it be that hard for Zorn just to call the formation through the headset when he calls the play. One less thing for JC to think about)

I think this is a great idea. I don't know why Zorn feels that it's critical for the QB to make the line adjustments anyway. If the QB is particulary gifted then that's one thing.

Campbell must improve his performance. The only reason the Skins made it to the playoffs last year was because of the play of Todd Collins. Even though Campbell has had to deal with so many OCs he is paid to perform. There are no excuses. As for CB - get real. I like the guy a lot and would like to see him compete (in about 2 years).

[smoke-n-mirrors]

One other thing is that JC is holding the ball because our receivers aren't getting open!! I know he's a little slow on the reads and he might have missed one or two, but I even noticed that the receivers were covered most of the time! Even when he had time to throw he had to go under b/c none of the primary reads were open!!

[DCMONEY]

One other thing is that JC is holding the ball because our receivers aren't getting open!! I know he's a little slow on the reads and he might have missed one or two, but I even noticed that the receivers were covered most of the time! Even when he had time to throw he had to go under b/c none of the primary reads were open!!

You're right. When they show some different camera angles, you can see the Skins WR's covered. The Giants WR's were running down field 10 to 12 yards and turning around. In particular Plaxico.

[DwangoM]

I agree that JC looked like crap, taking to long to make decisions, not really adjusting. But the whole thing about Brennan being much better I've heard again and again for many seasons.

The list of QBs who had that something special in the pre-season:

Gus Ferrotte, Jeff George, Patrick Ramsey, Danny Whuerffel, Trent Green, Sage Rosenfells, etc.

All of them were disappointing in the regular season against real talent when replacing the main quarterback. None saved the season.

Fact is, the team has problems as well as JC. The front line can't protect. Recievers are missing thier routes or are dropping balls. Coach Zorn has little experience play calling. A change of quarterback to a less experienced quarterback rarely fixes these things.

Point is: Doing well against second and third stringers in pre-season indicates nothing.

[PortisBetts]

I am in no way saying Brennan will be better. Could be 20 times worse. But i cant stand watching campbell be indecisive and have no idea whats going on all the time.

"One other thing is that JC is holding the ball because our receivers aren't getting open!! I know he's a little slow on the reads and he might have missed one or two, but I even noticed that the receivers were covered most of the time! Even when he had time to throw he had to go under b/c none of the primary reads were open!!"

So your telling me that it is ok to check down and not take a shot with less then three minutes to go on fourth down? He has no confidence in himself. Eli was taking chances in the beginning of the game. ELI MANNING. The pass to plaxico where it bounced up? He took a shot. Now not saying i want that because it was a bad decision, but with less then three minutes to go on fourth down i think the situation might call for a shot like that.

[rebornempowered]

Even a moron knows that JC doesn't have time to look and see where the sticks are before he throws on third down. That is the WR's job to line up at the line, know where the marker is and don't break off your route until you are there.

Campbell did plenty wrong but the majority of times he threw for less than the first down it was on the receiver, not Campbell.

In addition, the WR's on the field are not really suited for this offense. They get pushed around to easily. Moss can be good but he drops balls that hit him in the chest and/or face mask. Everyone was excited that Thomas and Kelly were drafted. Those are what the offense needed for Campbell to be successful in this system. Now that he has the same "weapons" as last year, that everyone said weren't good enough six months ago, suddenly Campbell is at fault again.

[McMVP]

Man can Jason get a chance to grasp this system.

Why? So it can change again just when he gets more comfortable?

[kuraitengai]

This is actually something I noticed last night. If you watch JC, when the opposing defense changes their look and shows you their blitz or that they're going to drop in coverage, JC does nothing to adjust the offense. Eli was constantly making calls at the line of scrimmage. This may be because Zorn doesn't want JC to change any plays from the line of scrimmage, I'm not sure, but it seemed like everytime he didn't adjust our offense and the made adjustments, we got ripped apart.

i noticed he wasnt checking off too much. the one major checkoff i remember was actually by devin thomas, even though he didnt run the route far enough to pick up the first. thomas saw the CB cheating in for a blitz, started pointing at him. JC saw it and hit him for about an 8 yard hook. ball was a little high, i think, making thomas have to extend which gave the safety time to close. if it had been lower around the chest, he might have been able to secure and spin to the sideline.

but it was thomas that made the call, not JC on that one.

[kuraitengai]

Campbell is a moron, even a moron can see that. Got the intellect of an oatmeal cookie.

im sure youd do a whole lot better.

probably might not want to resort to namecalling unless you can prove that you can do it as good or better...