Rocky Mountain High, or, Why I Hope Zorn Takes a Long Look at Denver.

[Hubbs]

I know, I know - General Zorn's spent more time in Seattle than we've spent in Iraq. He's the latest Holmgren quarterback disciple to take over a head coaching gig, and therefore would be expected to resemble those that went before him, Gruden and Reid. He has no relevant ties to the Denver coaching staff or offensive philosophy. The Shanahan branch of the WCO is, by this point, so far removed from the Holmgren branch that it might as well fall under a completely different category. There's no legitimate reason to expect anything other than a Holmgren-esque offense, nor is there legitimate reason to expect wrinkles from Denver any more than wrinkles from New England, or San Diego, or Dallas.

But.

Jim Zorn has landed in a situation that, I believe, is uniquely situated to benefit immensely from the assimilation of many of the basic concepts and designs of the Denver offense. That's not to say that he should abandon everything he learned in Seattle; such a dump would, of course, be silly. Very silly. But certain aspects of the Mile High Offense seem to fit the Redskins perfectly, and I would argue that it would be equally silly to ignore those aspects.

Firstly, let's look at the biggest question mark on the team and the key to either an 11-5 or 4-12 season - Jason Campbell. Thus far in his pro career, Campbell has been at his weakest when asked to drop straight back, make a quick read, and throw an accurate short ball. Holmgren and the coaches he begat over the years tend to call a bevy of those plays; obviously, the exact attacks have varied depending on the team (Holmgren's Green Bay offense featured deeper routes, largely because of Favre; Reid's first several seasons with McNabb involved getting him outside of the pocket as much as possible), but the general principle is there.

Denver, by contrast, has taken almost the exact opposite approach - Shanahan's offense is predicated upon a moving pocket and deeper throws. This type of attack plays to Campbell's strengths. While he's not quite McNabb, Campbell is an above-average dual threat, has been quite accurate when throwing on the move, and is fantastic at keeping his eyes downfield whilst buying time outside of the pocket, a trait I particularly admire (and I feel is overlooked when analyzing Jason's abilities). While Holmgren and Zorn didn't completely ignore Matt Hasselbeck's underrated mobility, not many would describe it as a prominent feature of Seattle's offense. The Broncos maximize this approach, and have refined it to a level that no other team in the league can match.

Secondly, Shanahan has historically made great use of both the two-tight end set and receiving tight ends. The Broncos don't have a lot of talent in that department right now, but most of the "Mastermind's" offenses have resulted in nice receiving numbers for at least one tight end (Shannon Sharpe, Jeb Putzier). Holmgren and his coaching offspring have struggled to develop prolific tight ends - Jeremy Stevens, L.J. Smith, Anthony Becht, and the "other" Alex Smith have all failed to live up to their expected production. Moreover, Zorn could probably count the number of times Seattle used twin tight ends over the past six years on one hand. It's just not part of their gameplan. The Seahawks have been an I-form/3-WR team for as long as he's been there. If we're going to make use of both Chris Cooley and Fred Davis, we're going to need to look elsewhere for the best way to do it. Denver would be an excellent choice.

Finally, there's Portis. Now, we already know that Zorn's keeping the same running terminology and, presumably, most of the same running plays as last year. That's fine. What matters here is which of those plays are called, and with what frequency. We all know how dominant Portis was in Denver. Fast-developing, one-cut rushing plays that get him on the edges fit Clinton's strengths perfectly. Not only that, but they're the counterpart to the mobile pocket - all those bootlegs that Denver runs are based off of an outside play action to the other side of the field. Zorn can keep our old terminology and plays and still manage to emulate Denver by simply calling off tackle and outside stretch plays a lot more often than the Gibbs/Saunders hydra did.

Again, I realize that the odds of any of this happening are quite small, given Zorn's background. But, hell, it's the offseason, and this merits discussion - a brand new offensive braintrust needs to tackle the mystery of how to best use our players. I'm very confident that a Denver-esque system would do well, especially when it comes to Campbell. The season rides on his arm, and we'll see a lot more wins if we keep him moving, give him more time to make decisions, and focus on his best throws, not his worst.

[Pimpey42000]

Don't know about that dude, best thing I seen out of the Rockies lately has been the bottom of a Coors Light!

[Wyvern]

This was a great post. I hope Zorn gets a copy -- although I suspect he might have figured some of this out already.

It's a little early to tell how close Zorn will stick to the Holmgren playbook. Zorn strikes me as someone who knows what he wants to do, but if he isn't in charge, then he'll do what the guy in charge wants done. I imagine one of the issues will be how well the O-Line can adapt to a Denver style of blocking scheme.

I say all this, because the pick of Fred Davis over Calais Campbell might portend some kind of two-TE offense set up supplementing a Denver style WCO.

I also liked your analysis of Jason Campbell's potential strengths in the Denver WCO's mobile pocket -- that really rings true when I recall what I observed of when Jason had to scramble.

Hmmm...Not bad . . . for a Water-boy.

(Just kidding. Welcome to ES. You'll probably pass my number of posts soon enough.)

[Hubbs]

Thanks for the kind words, Wyvern. And I actually doubt I'll eclipse you anytime soon - I tend to spend most of my time here over in the Tailgate, taking random pot shots inside political threads.

I imagine one of the issues will be how well the O-Line can adapt to a Denver style of blocking scheme.

I actually ignored that problem, for two reasons. First, judging by Zorn's comments, it doesn't seem like he'll be trying to directly change the scheme of our running attack in any way. The plays will be the same, and the players will block the same guy in each play as they would have last year. Second, we don't really have the personnel to pull off the Denver scheme - they use light, mobile linemen to zone block on every play. We don't have those type of linemen.

What we can do is simply cherry-pick the outside running plays we already have for the best ones that put Portis on the edge of or completely outside of the tackle box, and then call those much more frequently, rather than only calling them as an occasional change-up to the inside handoff and slow-developing counter, as Gibbs did.

[Wyvern]

Congrats on the new avatar! I liked the Camp Fodder avatar -- perfect for pre-season training camp.

As to your comments, I was assuming that if you want a mobile pocket -- you'd want a mobile line too. While Portis is a good blocker, he's one of the weapons you'd want available to Campbell, rather than protecting him. ARE, even in the slot, is too slight of frame.

One of the things t I really liked about Campbell was how quickly and deep he could drop back. He might be able buy time for the linemen to eventually set up some protection for a mobile pocket. However, I'd be concerned that with the pass-rushers of the NFC East, Campbell might wind up with a serious beating over the course of the season.

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

Nice discussion. I agree, and think Zorn will use this somewhat.

I was reading something on the Seattle offense a couple of days ago. It was saying that Matt Hassleback threw more balls 10 yards and over more than any other QB in the league last season. I'm expecting Zorn to run a WCO and develop it to cater to JCs strenghts. I think the ball will be thrown deeper more than what Skins fans are expecting. I'm not sure if he'll be moving the pocket on a regular basis, but I forsee a fairshare of bootleg plays.

Zorn also said he will develop the offense to cater to player strengths. I see us rushing outside more to cater to CP. CP has been the cog that makes our offense run since he's come to Washington. I'm sure Zorn will utilize him to get to the outside and burn defenses. I'm thinking Zorn and CP have talked about ways to use him. I would also hope Zorn is aware of how Denver used Portis and how effective he was for that team.

[Hubbs]

Congrats on the new avatar! I liked the Camp Fodder avatar -- perfect for pre-season training camp.

As to your comments, I was assuming that if you want a mobile pocket -- you'd want a mobile line too. While Portis is a good blocker, he's one of the weapons you'd want available to Campbell, rather than protecting him. ARE, even in the slot, is too slight of frame.

Gracias, I feel so much more important and devilishly handsome as one of the Sam Hollenbachs of the world.

Ideally, I'd like a more mobile line. However, that's a question of roster moves in future seasons, not coaching philosophy in this one. Most of the Denver system can be achieved without a mobile line - a large number of Shanahan's bootlegs, for example, are "naked," which, if you're not as big of a football nerd as myself, means that there's no blocking on the play side. The offensive line blocks the opposite way (going along with the play action fake), leaving the quarterback back himself as he moves the other direction after the fake. About 99% of the time, there's a tight end on the play side; the tight end will usually chip the defensive end in front of him, then immediately head for the flat and look for an outlet pass in case the defense doesn't buy the fake and the QB has pressure in his face right away.

Another fix is to pull the play-side guard to the outside - in other words, if we were to run a bootleg to the right, the offensive line would block left (with the fake) except for Randy Thomas, who would pull to the right, leaving his position and establishing himself outside of Jansen/the tight end to protect Campbell. Luckily, Thomas is great at pulling, so this would work for us. Kendall, on the other hand, is mediocre at best; we'd probably be better off having him block the same direction as the fake, pulling Samuels, and using a blocking tight end to handle the DE on that side.

I've seen some more exotic schemes in which linemen from the play-action side will pull all the way across to the play side - I doubt we'd do much of that. Thomas could pull it off, but he's probably the only one, unless Rhinehart's particularly mobile. Luckily, that kind of action isn't really necessary for an offense like this to be effective. It's more of a luxury. If a team perfects the fundamentals, establishes the outside running game to keep the defense worried about those handoffs, and calls a mix of plays out of every formation, most of the Denver offense can be run using nothing but naked and one-lineman bootlegs.

One of the things t I really liked about Campbell was how quickly and deep he could drop back. He might be able buy time for the linemen to eventually set up some protection for a mobile pocket. However, I'd be concerned that with the pass-rushers of the NFC East, Campbell might wind up with a serious beating over the course of the season.

I'd be more concerned about that if we keep Campbell in the pocket. This is entirely anectodal, but I remember him getting hit a lot more in a traditional pocket than when he was on the move. He's good with his legs, and, again, is really ahead of his experience when it comes to looking to throw while on the move instead of looking to run, meaning he really won't be setting himself up for a lot of hits. In my opinion, that's the single thing he does best. We should make use of it.

[Hubbs]

Nice discussion. I agree, and think Zorn will use this somewhat.

I was reading something on the Seattle offense a couple of days ago. It was saying that Matt Hassleback threw more balls 10 yards and over more than any other QB in the league last season. I'm expecting Zorn to run a WCO and develop it to cater to JCs strenghts. I think the ball will be thrown deeper more than what Skins fans are expecting. I'm not sure if he'll be moving the pocket on a regular basis, but I forsee a fairshare of bootleg plays.

That's interesting, but I'd wonder about two things: Did he throw more balls 10 yards and over than anyone else, or complete more? He's pretty damn accurate, so the latter could just be the result of him completing a lot of passes in general. Second, was it 10 yards or more in the air? Since the WCO is predicated upon YAC, I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that Mike Holmgren is the best in the league at designing plays that turn a four-yard pass into a twenty-yard gain. It's literally what he tries to do with every snap.

[Oldskool]

Hubbs, I applaud you for a thoughtful post. This took time to create and think out. This is the type of fair that is lacking in the Stadium.

Jim Zorn has landed in a situation that, I believe, is uniquely situated to benefit immensely from the assimilation of many of the basic concepts and designs of the Denver offense. That's not to say that he should abandon everything he learned in Seattle; such a dump would, of course, be silly. Very silly. But certain aspects of the Mile High Offense seem to fit the Redskins perfectly, and I would argue that it would be equally silly to ignore those aspects.

Firstly, let's look at the biggest question mark on the team and the key to either an 11-5 or 4-12 season - Jason Campbell. Thus far in his pro career, Campbell has been at his weakest when asked to drop straight back, make a quick read, and throw an accurate short ball. Holmgren and the coaches he begat over the years tend to call a bevy of those plays; obviously, the exact attacks have varied depending on the team (Holmgren's Green Bay offense featured deeper routes, largely because of Favre; Reid's first several seasons with McNabb involves getting him outside of the pocket as much as possible), but the general principle is there.

This is exactly what Zorn has been working on Campbell with. Campbell basically has had to re-learn how not only to drop back and read a short, hot route but also Zorn has gone as far as to show him how to receive a snap.

I have no doubt that Zorn will develop plays and routes that cater directly to the strengths that he sees in Campbell's game.

Denver, by contrast, has taken almost the exact opposite approach - Shanahan's offense is predicated upon a moving pocket and deeper throws. This type of attack plays to Campbell's strengths. While he's not quite McNabb, Campbell is an above-average dual threat, has been quite accurate when throwing on the move, and is fantastic at keeping his eyes downfield whilst buying time outside of the pocket, a trait I particularly admire (and I feel is overlooked when analyzing Jason's abilities). While Holmgren and Zorn didn't completely ignore Matt Hasselbeck's underrated mobility, not many would describe it as a prominent feature of Seattle's offense. The Broncos maximize this approach, and have refined it to a level that no other team in the league can match.

This goes back to the last topic. Zorn, if anything, will not be conservative on offense. He has to know the rap on Campbell already: great intermediate passing, nice touch on the long ball but issues with the 0-15 yard passes.

The types of plays, be they short bleed you to death plays like Seattle and GB or the more deep threat type like Denver will be determined on how our O-line performs and how often D-coords want to stack 8 in the box against this defense. This may be something that has an ongoing evolution in Zorn's offense.

Secondly, Shanahan has historically made great use of both the two-tight end set and receiving tight ends. The Broncos don't have a lot of talent in that department right now, but most of the "Mastermind's" offenses have resulted in nice receiving numbers for at least one tight end (Shannon Sharpe, Jeb Putzier). Holmgren and his coaching offspring have struggled to develop prolific tight ends - Jeremy Stevens, L.J. Smith, Anthony Becht, and the "other" Alex Smith have all failed to live up to their expected production. Moreover, Zorn could probably could could the number of times Seattle used twin tight ends over the past six years on one hand. It's just not part of their gameplan. The Seahawks have been an I-form/3-WR team for as long as he's been there. If we're going to make use of both Chris Cooley and Fred Davis, we're going to need to look elsewhere for the best way to do it. Denver would be an excellent choice.

I have no doubt about the fact that Zorn has seen the limitations of Holmgren's offense when it lacks a true pass catching Tight End. Also, coaches in the same tree tend to see what works well in other "cousin" offenses. Seeing how well Portis ran in Denver, I would not be surprised if Zorn takes quite a few ideas about Shannahan's zone blocking and TE play into account when designing his plays.

The reason Davis was drafted was not only insurance to an injury to Cooley but to use in a two TE set. That much is obvious and has been acknowledged by Zorn.

Finally, there's Portis. Now, we already know that Zorn's keeping the same running terminology and, presumably, most of the same running plays as last year. That's fine. What matters here is which of those plays are called, and with what frequency. We all know how dominant Portis was in Denver. Fast-developing, one-cut rushing plays that get him on the edges fit Clinton's strengths perfectly. Not only that, but they're the counterpart to the mobile pocket - all those bootlegs that Denver runs are based off of an outside play action to the other side of the field. Zorn can keep our old terminology and plays and still manage to emulate Denver by simply calling off tackle and outside stretch plays a lot more often than the Gibbs/Saunders hydra did.

Portis' ability to run in this offense will depend greatly upon how well the passing game works. Zone blocking works best when the defense is on its heals and expecting pass, hence why it is the favorite for the WCO O-coords to use.

Our O-lineman are not quite as athletic as the O-lineman in Denver have been on average for the last 10 years. However, they have shown that they can perform the scheme and they are knowledgeable of it.

Again, I realize that the odds of any of this happening are quite small, given Zorn's background. But, hell, it's the offseason, and this merits discussion - a brand new offensive braintrust needs to tackle the mystery of how to best use our players. I'm very confident that a Denver-esque system would do well, especially when it comes to Campbell. The season rides on his arm, and we'll see a lot more wins if we keep him moving, give him more time to make decisions, and focus on his best throws, not his worst.

I don't expect Zorn to be thinking too far out of the box in regards to how he runs the offense different to Holmgren. Do I expect a carbon copy? No, there will be enough customization in this offense to make it Zorn's but it will definitely be recognizable as coming from the Holmgren WCO tree.

Year 2 and beyond may bring more twists and turns from the other WCO branches as Zorn "cannibalizes" what works from other systems in the family tree and discards what didn't work.

Rome wasn't built in a day and Zorn's offense won't be either, but at least we are laying the foundation.

[LD0506]

One of the better posts I have seen lately, thoughtful and thought provoking at the same time. Well done, post more often :thumbsup:

[mudhog]

Very insightful post Hubbs. I have always been a fan of using JC's mobility more in plays like the naked bootleg. I just can't wait to see his growth under Zorn.

It's gonna be a good year.

Hail

[Califan007 The Constipated]

That's interesting, but I'd wonder about two things: Did he throw more balls 10 yards and over than anyone else, or complete more? He's pretty damn accurate, so the latter could just be the result of him completing a lot of passes in general. Second, was it 10 yards or more in the air? Since the WCO is predicated upon YAC, I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that Mike Holmgren is the best in the league at designing plays that turn a four-yard pass into a twenty-yard gain. It's literally what he tries to do with every snap.

1) I think it was more attempts of 10+ yards...

2) They travelled 10+ yards in the air.

[dcnativenerd]

Thanks for the read, Hubbs. I'm not too familar with the WCO (though I know the core beliefs) and this gave me a little insight. I believe Campbell can flourish in the WCO, but only if we can play it to his strengths.

I'm extremely optimistic about this season and I expect good things from this team. Not a Super Bowl apperance, but a respectable performance.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Moreover, Zorn could probably could could the number of times Seattle used twin tight ends over the past six years on one hand.

I think you needed a couple more "coulds" in there lol...

Good post, though, nice to have some well thought-out opinions instead of knee-jerk ones. I don't quite agree that Campbell's been "at his weakest when asked to drop straight back, make a quick read, and throw an accurate short ball", though. He pretty much runs the hurry-up offense by doing exactly that, and he does it rather well.

[Hubbs]

I think you needed a couple more "coulds" in there lol...

Good post, though, nice to have some well thought-out opinions instead of knee-jerk ones. I don't quite agree that Campbell's been "at his weakest when asked to drop straight back, make a quick read, and throw an accurate short ball", though. He pretty much runs the hurry-up offense by doing exactly that, and he does it rather well.

Ah, yes, I forgot the exception to that statement - Campbell seems to be much better at making quick reads when in the shotgun. A lot of quarterbacks do better in the gun, but the difference is particularly stark with Campbell. Not sure why - maybe he was too concerned with timing his dropback properly when under center.

And yeah, apparently I have a thing for "could." :doh: :laugh:

[Hubbs]

Portis' ability to run in this offense will depend greatly upon how well the passing game works. Zone blocking works best when the defense is on its heals and expecting pass, hence why it is the favorite for the WCO O-coords to use.

Oh, Portis will run rampant if we can keep defenses worried about the pass, no question. But I would also argue that we've already seen an offensive system, and a particular rushing philosophy, in which he is absolutely dominant - so why not try to emulate it?

We don't necessarily need the constant zone blocking on stretch plays; I don't think our line is athletic enough to do that as well as Denver. But we can build our running game around our own quick-developing plays to the edge.

[nathanevans]

Great thread. Very thought provoking. It's going to be fascinating to see how things pan out. I think you're right that tweaking a system based around a proven success with Portis is the way to go.

[Hubbs]

I'm gonna bump this one, because I'm watching the Denver-Oakland game right now and can't help but pray to the football gods that Zorn's taking a few minutes out of the film room to take a look. The Denver offense constantly puts Cutler on the move. Doing the same for Campbell would result in a huge offensive boost, if last year is any indication.

Campbell isn't a prolific pocket quarterback right now. So why keep him there?

[TheLongshot]

You know, I thought this thread was a bit too positive for the current disposition of the board. I think people need to read Oldskool's post on the previous page for some perspective.

Jason

[Ray Brown]

i'm watching the denver game right now as well. cutler is on the move almost every single passing play. i've always thought JC looks and plays better while on the move. eddie royal, the rookie WR from VT looks good too

[Spear]

My impression of Campbell when he has to move around is that he's average at best. He locks in on a receiver and often throws late or off-target. I'd rather him learn to drop back, see the field, and make throws on-time. But I'm not holding my breath that he'll ever be good at either.

[RedskinDan0557]

Great post. I hope Zorny is adjusting his play calling to the talent he has. I think that was one of the knocks on AS.

[mcarey032]

While we are looking at Denver for a moment, can we direct our attention at the second round WR that they drafted out of our backyard who is absolutely torching the Raiders secondary. It is absolutely insane that the Redskins have two second round receivers who can't contribute one lick to our offense and other teams have rookie WR who have done really well for them in week one. Also look at Philadelphia and Desean Jackson. We must have the most snakebit luck in the world!

[prufRock]

My impression of Campbell when he has to move around is that he's average at best. He locks in on a receiver and often throws late or off-target. I'd rather him learn to drop back, see the field, and make throws on-time. But I'm not holding my breath that he'll ever be good at either.

I agree, his accuracy suffers when he rolls out. That was always a criticism of Campbell even in college. He can run a little, but throwing on the run was never a strength of his. He may be able to make some throws but he's never going to be as good as Cutler.

One thing to keep in mind is that rollouts and bootlegs are only effective when a team has established the run. If the Redskins suddenly started rolling Campbell out with their sub 4.0-yard/carry average, the defensive end whom you're hoping to deceive won't bite on the fake, and he'll be in Campbell's face pretty frequently. You'd basically cut the field in half and have Campbell trying something he's not comfortable with anyway.

[lavarisgone]

BTW, watching this Oak-Den game, how about the theory that rookie Wr's don't contribute, how about Eddie Royal, WOW!