Ray Brown Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 BTW, watching this Oak-Den game, how about the theory that rookie Wr's don't contribute, how about Eddie Royal, WOW! royal looks great. however, rookie WR's rarely contribute right away, that still remains true. royal and desean jackson were the exceptions to the norm this weekend. just because two of them did well doesn't mean that is is not fair to say that rookie WR's rarely contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavarisgone Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 royal looks great. however, rookie WR's rarely contribute right away, that still remains true. royal and desean jackson were the exceptions to the norm this weekend. just because two of them did well doesn't mean that is is not fair to say that rookie WR's rarely contribute.No argument just sucks we can't have skill players that thrive. Anyway, if you put an 84 Redskin jersey on Royal, I would swear it was Gary Clark. Reminds me of him how he move around out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Course, the board probably would have had a collective hissy fit if we drafted either of those guys, since they are under 6 feet tall. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 after watching the highlights of the denver game tonight i really hope that this is the direction that we go in. not only that but i very much agree that this type of offense would fit jason campbell. i can see him as a poor mans jay cutler. also it is a total waste of chris cooleys talent and skills in this offense right now and isnt this the reason that we drafted fred davis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 It's gonna be a good year. Hail careful with that language around here mudhog. didnt you know that we cant have a good year? even if we dont see it on the scoreboard and in the win column it will be a good year because we will see the development in our offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tone_dubbz Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Denver, by contrast, has taken almost the exact opposite approach - Shanahan's offense is predicated upon a moving pocket and deeper throws. This type of attack plays to Campbell's strengths. While he's not quite McNabb, Campbell is an above-average dual threat, has been quite accurate when throwing on the move, and is fantastic at keeping his eyes downfield whilst buying time outside of the pocket, a trait I particularly admire (and I feel is overlooked when analyzing Jason's abilities). While Holmgren and Zorn didn't completely ignore Matt Hasselbeck's underrated mobility, not many would describe it as a prominent feature of Seattle's offense. The Broncos maximize this approach, and have refined it to a level that no other team in the league can match. Not too sure about this comment. Campbell is at his worst when he has to scramble out the pocket. He needs his feet planted to make any type of descent throw. And to say he's accurate when throwing on the move is almost asinine. And backing up your theory by saying he keeps his eyes down field while buying time out the pocket is almost down right hilarious. Don't get me wrong, because I'm a JC supporter..........for the mean time. But JC needs to stay his ass in the pocket, and our offensive line needs to do a better job of protecting him so he doesn't have to scramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I watched the game as well. To be honest, the only reason I see that there were a few more plays where Cutler was put in motion was because the basically had more plays. Cutler's best passes of the night, imho, were when he did the 3-5 step drops and got rid of the ball. Not all of them were that good, but the ball was out of there in a hurry. A few of the times they got Cutler moving, they were essentially 3-5 step drops to one side where he usually hit his back or a receiver on a quick route to that side. Overall, I just didn't see it as a "constant" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoBob Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I really like the idea of moving the pocket....the only "gotcha" is that the QB has to be able to sense the backside rush - which has been a huge hole in Campbell's game (see 2007 the year of the fumble). If this can be corrected, than I think it would be a great idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Ideally, I'd like a more mobile line. However, that's a question of roster moves in future seasons, not coaching philosophy in this one. Most of the Denver system can be achieved without a mobile line - a large number of Shanahan's bootlegs, for example, are "naked," which, if you're not as big of a football nerd as myself, means that there's no blocking on the play side. The offensive line blocks the opposite way (going along with the play action fake), leaving the quarterback back himself as he moves the other direction after the fake. About 99% of the time, there's a tight end on the play side; the tight end will usually chip the defensive end in front of him, then immediately head for the flat and look for an outlet pass in case the defense doesn't buy the fake and the QB has pressure in his face right away. Spot on my friend I dont know how many times, in the Giants, game I wanted to see a naked boot leg. Kiwanuka and Tuck on almost every running play crashed to the inside so hard that we couldnt even put a hat on them (Cooley in particular and Heyer a few times). A simple play action naked boot leg would have exposed their aggresivness and Cooley could have easily sealed them off on the inside since they crashed so hard. Come to think of it Cooley wouldn't have to block them at all since they would have been on the other end of the line on their own move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatboy41 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 All I want, is our entire team to take a look at the tape of the Broncos and the Vikings vs. Packers games. Those three teams played with more intensity for the entire game than our team did for one series. Watching those teams play last night made me feel embarrassed for the Redskins. The came out flat against the Giants and had nothing to show for it. Maybe we'll actually play like we want to win against the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 The sad thing is our WCO looked like a poor mans Viking version (they can at least run the ball well). Of all the WCO (Bucs, Vikes, Broncos, Pack, Eagles) this week us and the Seahags were by far the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prufRock Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 No argument just sucks we can't have skill players that thrive. Anyway, if you put an 84 Redskin jersey on Royal, I would swear it was Gary Clark. Reminds me of him how he move around out there. Regarding Eddie Royal, just one perspective from someone living in Denver: Shanahan has spent years trying to come up with a good WR. Marcus Nash, Ashley Lelie and host of lower round picks just to name a few. And I'm not talking about some of the free agents that didn't pan out. There's a certain amount of luck involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted September 9, 2008 Author Share Posted September 9, 2008 Not too sure about this comment. Campbell is at his worst when he has to scramble out the pocket. He needs his feet planted to make any type of descent throw. And to say he's accurate when throwing on the move is almost asinine. And backing up your theory by saying he keeps his eyes down field while buying time out the pocket is almost down right hilarious. Excellent evidence you put forth there. Compelling, and rich. On the other hand, if I just dismiss everything you say as "almost moronic" or "almost downright laughable," do I get to win, too? In watching Campbell last year, I came to the conclusion that he did a better job outside of the pocket than he did within it. The Giants game showed me nothing to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 How many myths does this board need to perpetuate to make itself feel better? When Campbell is forced to move outside the pocket, it means the play is about to go nowhere. It's a BAD sign. I'm not trying to be too down on the guy, but honestly, there's nothing the man does on the field that is anything above average. His reads are slow; his release is slow; he runs right into sacks; his deep ball is too flat and doesn't drop in the basket like it should; his ball placement on shorter passes is poor; he can't throw on the run; he has trouble simply enunciating the plays; and he has no killer instinct. There's just no way to mask all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 I'm gonna go ahead and give this a bump-a-de-bump-bump, because I just looked it up for another thread and I'd be interested to see what kind of comments people would have after one year of Zorn. (Also because it's June and I just watched enough baseball highlights on The Worldwide Leader to put me into a coma. God, training camp can't get here soon enough.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagletooth Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I didn't see much of Denver last year. My understanding was that "moving pocket" offense was a Jake Plummer thing. And not really Shannahan's prefered approach. I think the Cutler/Shannahan offense probably resembled the Holmgren offense much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Jim Zorn had his plate full in 2008. He had to remake his QB mechanically and teach him, along with the rest of the offense, a new scheme. Then, there was the second half wear and tear on the O line, his weakest unit, to deal with. The passing game never got past the vanilla phase and his rookie receivers, who fit the scheme, never contributed. So, we don't know a helluva lot more about the kind of offense Z wants going into this season than we did going into the last. My guess is that he doesn't know for sure because it will depend on his personnel. If Fred Davis steps up as a bona fide weapon, we will see Davis and Cooley frequently on the field together, for example. Shanahan had mobile QBs in Elway, Plummer and Cutler. But he didn't run the same kind of offense with Brian Griese. Andy Reid's WCO is not truly a WCO in philosophy. His is a big play offense because that's what McNabb can run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Shanahan had mobile QBs in Elway, Plummer and Cutler. But he didn't run the same kind of offense with Brian Griese. Andy Reid's WCO is not truly a WCO in philosophy. His is a big play offense because that's what McNabb can run. True, but Griese was the exception, not the rule, for Shanahan. He liked mobile quarterbacks and he liked to move them around. If he were to, say, come in after this year, and for some reason we still had JC, I'd bet a hefty chunk of change that we'd be seeing a lot more rollouts/bootlegs/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 True, but Griese was the exception, not the rule, for Shanahan. He liked mobile quarterbacks and he liked to move them around. If he were to, say, come in after this year, and for some reason we still had JC, I'd bet a hefty chunk of change that we'd be seeing a lot more rollouts/bootlegs/etc. Jason might fare better now that his mechanics have improved, but the old Jason was inept rolling to his left because a high, compact release is needed to do it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Jason might fare better now that his mechanics have improved, but the old Jason was inept rolling to his left because a high, compact release is needed to do it well. It seems natural to assume that a coach who wanted to run more rollouts would focus on that a bit more over the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 It seems natural to assume that a coach who wanted to run more rollouts would focus on that a bit more over the offseason. It was reported from the 2008 training camp that Zorn had his QBs working a lot on rollouts, which led me and others here to speculate that we might see a WCO with a Shanahan twist, but it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvkeeper19 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Shanahan's offense isn't suited to our personnel (specifically the offensive line). Zorn inherited a Gibbs-built, power running offense and the players that came with it. Our offensive line is not especially mobile, which does not lend itself to the "moving pocket" or zone blocking schemes characteristic of the Shanahan Broncos. I don't see drastic differences between Holmgren's and Shanahan's philosophies. They are distinct, but not to the point of being incompatible. Without the benefit of game films to break down, it's hard to say how Zorn's offense compares to Holmgren's, but I will say that in watching the team play over the course of a season, it didn't look especially like a "West Coast" offense. I don't know how much of that is based on personnel versus philosophy, but I'm willing to be that it had a lot to do with the fact that Campbell's game was being overhauled. I'd expect to see a lot more West Cost-ish characteristics this season. If that holds true, I would also expect it to look a lot closer to Holmgren's offense than Shanahan's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 I'll say the same thing about our offensive line than I did earlier in the thread - it's proven to be good enough at outside blocking (see: toss plays) to allow for a higher percentage of runs to go outside and base a more bootleg-laden passing game off of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Not too sure about this comment. Campbell is at his worst when he has to scramble out the pocket. He needs his feet planted to make any type of descent throw. I don't think he is talking about Jason scrabling out of the pocket, I think he is talking about plays where the entire pocket is designed to move right after the ball is snapped. And Jason would just roll with the pocket, and stay in the pocket as he looks for the deep rainbow. THAT is the type of thing Jason may be good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Don't know about that dude, best thing I seen out of the Rockies lately has been the bottom of a Coors Light! Seriously you picked the worst beer brewed in CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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