Rudechain Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I could be wrong, but I thought there was something in the bible about forgiveness and turning the other cheek. I can't believe people get so worked up over a freaking t-shirt. You know what I find really offensive? 300 pound women in string bikinis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 So how many people think this shirt is acceptable in public but have openly condemned Westboro Baptist Church? You can opennly condemn both, and believe both have no place in your community; and still not be in favor of jailing either.... There is a price to be paid for living in a free society. Part of that price is being offended by other peoples poor choices in how they use that freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfoom Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 :sigh:Thank you btfoom for calling me uneducated, lazy, and stupid in one post. I apprecaite it.. Actually, I said that you could choose between uneducated or lazy/stupid. If you want to choose all 3, fine with me. Just real quick since I am at work don't have time to present my side in full: If you think the crusades are the only time in history "christains" have killed in the name of christ, then I am afraid you should probably refrain form calling anyone uneducated, stupid, or lazy at any time in your life. I just pointed out the two major times the Christians have been shown for mass killings. If you can find others, please let me know. Like I said, you just need to find about 24 million more deaths before I need to dig up the number of French, English, American, Czech, Polish, North Africans, etc the Nazi's killed. GFL.:laugh: Oh, by the way, how about the history lesson on the Nazi party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I just pointed out the two major times the Christians have been shown for mass killings. If you can find others, please let me know. Like I said, you just need to find about 24 million more deaths before I need to dig up the number of French, English, American, Czech, Polish, North Africans, etc the Nazi's killed. GFL.:laugh:Oh, by the way, how about the history lesson on the Nazi party? More people have died in Christs name than any other person in the history of the world. Mass Killings by Christians attributed on religous grounds... sometimes against other Christians.. Like when the Catholic Crusaders sacked the Orthodox Christian city of Constantinople. Or when the Catholic Great Armada tried to invade Protestant England. But Christians also have slaughtered Jews, Moslems, Witches, General Heritics, agnostics, atheists, Heugonauts, Unitarians, Aryans, even scientists and philosophers who disagreed with Christian authority. The list is long of attrocities committed in Christ's name by people who believed they were doing God's bidding. West Europe (1348) Jews killed as scapegoats for Black Death Trager, People's Chronology: 2,000 hanged in Strasbourg Davies: 2,000 in Strasbourg; as many as 12,000 in Mainz Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 2,000 in Strasbourg; 6,000 in Mainz [*]France, Jacquerie Revolt (1358) PGtH: 7,000 peasant massacred in Meau [*]England, Wat Tyler's Rebellion (1381) PGtH: 1,500 peasants executed [*]General Religious Mayhem: From Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual (1897) 7,000,000 during the Saracen slaughters in Spain. 2,000,000 Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives opposing the introduction of Christianity. 1,000,000 in the Holy Wars against the Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses, andHuguenots. Witch Hunts (1400-1800) Wertham: 20,000 Jenny Gibbons ["]http://www.interchg.ubc.ca/fmuntean/POM5a1.html] cites: Levack: 60,000 Hutton: 40,000 Barstow: 100,000, "but her reasoning was flawed" (i.e. too high.) Davies, Norman, Europe A History: 50,000 Rummel: 100,000 Bethancourt: The Killings of Witches, lists 628 named and 268,331 unnamed witches killed as of Dec. 2000, and estimates that between 20,000 and 500,000 people were killed as witches. ["]http://www.illusions.com/burning/burnwitc.htm?] M. D. Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual (1897): 9,000,000 burned for witchcraft. 5 Jan. 1999 Deutsche Presse-Agentur: review of Wolfgang Behringer's Hexen: Glaube - Verfolgung - Vermarktung: [*]estimates cited favorably Thomas Brady: 40-50,000 Merry Wiesner: 50-100,000 Behringer, at lowest: 30,000 estimates cited unfavorably Gottfried Christian Voigt (1740-1791) extrapolated from his section of Germany to calculate 9,442,994 witches killed throughout Europe. From this came the common estimate of 9M. Mathilde Ludendorff (1877-1966): 9M Friederike Mueller-Reimerdes (1935): 9-10M Erika Wisselinck: 6-13 Million [*]MEDIAN: Of the 15 estimate listed here, the median is 100,000. If we limit it to just the ten estimates that are cited favorably, the median falls between 50,000 and 60,000. England, War of the Roses (1455-85) Charles Carlton: Going to the Wars: The Experience of the British Civil Wars 1638-1651 (1992) citing Thomas Craig in the 16th C.: 100,000 citing Thomas More: killed more English than the 100 yrs War Clodfelter: 105,000 Terence Wise, The Wars of the Roses (1983): Tudor historians exaggerated death toll as propaganda Vlad Dracula, Wallachia (r.1456-1462)PGtH: in all, 50,000-100,000 victims "impaled, tortured and killed" Florescu & McNally, Dracula: Prince of Many Faces: 100,000 k. (citing Bishop of Erlau, but questioning it.) Cecil Adams: 40-100,000 [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_131.html] Spanish Inquisition (1478-1834) Cited in Will Durant, The Reformation (1957): Juan Antonio Llorente, General Secretary of the Inquisition from 1789 to 1801, estimated that 31,912 were executed, 1480-1808. In contrast to the high estimate cited above, Durant tosses his support to the following low estimates: Hernando de Pulgar, secretary to Queen Isabella, estimated 2,000 burned before 1490. An unnamed "Catholic historian" estimated 2,000 burned, 1480-1504, and 2,000 burned, 1504-1758. PGtH: 8,800 deaths by burning, 1478-1496 Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (1910): 8,800 burnt in 18 years of Torquemada. (acc2 Buckle and Friedländer) Motley, Rise of the Dutch Republic: 10,220 burnt in 18 years of Torquemada Britannica: 2,000 Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual: 35,534 burned. Fox's Book of Martyrs, Ch.IV: 32,000 burned Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 32,000 k. by burning; 20,226 k. before 1540 Wertham: 250,000 Rummel: 350,000 deaths overall. MEDIAN: 8,800 under Torq.; 32,000 all told. Punished by all means, not death. Fox: 309,000 P. Johnson: 341,000 Motley: 114,401 Lisbon (1506)Trager, People's Chronology: 2,000-4,000 converted Jews k. in riot. Tudor England NOTE: Although it's common to accuse Henry of 72,000 executions, the description of his victims sometimes drifts from common criminals to Catholics, and the venue from nationwide to just Tyburn gallows in London. [*]Rummel: 560 executions per year (i.e. ca. 21,840) Mary I (r.1553-58) Lacey Baldwin Smith: 132 traitors executed under Q M Morgan, Oxford History of Britain: >287 Protestants after 2/1555, and "others died in prison." Elizabeth I (r.1558-1603) Lacey Baldwin Smith: 183 traitors executed under Q E Catholic Encyclopedia: 189 Catholics executed + 32 Franciscans were starved to death = 221 [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05445a.htm] Peasants' War, Hungary (1514) PGtH: >70,000 deaths in all Frederick Engels, The Peasant War in Germany: 60,000 peasants k. in battle or massacred towards end [http://csf.colorado.edu/psn/marx/Archive/1850-PWG/pwg3.html] Germany, Knights' War, von Sickingen (1519-1523)Wm Manchester, A World Lit Only By Fire: 250,000 Germans killed or executed Peasants' War, Germany (1524-25) Dict.Wars: 100,000 peasants slain in the war Eerdman's Handbook to the History of Christianity (1977): 100,000 Encyclopedia.com: 100,000 peasants k. [http://www.encyclopedia.com/articlesnew/35982.html] Wm Manchester, A World Lit Only By Fire: 100,000 peasants d. Douglas Miller: Armies of the German Peasants' War 1524-26: 70-100,000 peasants Ivan the Terrible, Russia, (r.1533-84) Novgorod Massacre, 1570: 60,000 people killed. (PGtH) Decimated boyars, "killing hundreds, probably even thousands" (Richard Dunn, The Age of Religious Wars 1559-1715) Henri Troyat, Ivan the Terrible Toward the end of his life, Ivan drew up lists of all the victims he could remember and sent these to monasteries for prayers. One listed 3,148 people killed; another 3,750. Novgorod Massacre (various estimates): Kurbsky: 15,000 3rd Chronicle of Novgorod: 18,000 Taube & Kruse: 27,000 1st Chronicle of Pskov: 60,000 [*]Troyat says that Ivan's gang of special thugs, the oprichniki, numbered 6000, and lasted for seven years. My analysis: If each one killed at least one person every year (Very possible. They were a pampered, unregulated and thoroughly nasty bunch), that's over 42,000 deaths. [*]Rummel: 200,000 not incl. Novgorod. Persecution of the Waldensians (1540-70) Halley's Bible Handbook, 24th ed. (1965): 900,000 Protestants k. (*) Early Catholic Heritics who believed in monastic living and Orthodox preachings, but operated outside of official Roman Catholic doctrine.. Thus were hunted down and killed. Dutch Revolt (1566-1609) Gibbon Decline & Fall v2: 100,000 executed under Charles V, in Netherlands John Lothrop Motley, Rise of the Dutch Republic (1855) Alva boasted of 18,600 executions in Neth. Sack of Antwerp (1576): 8,000 k [*]Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (1910) [http://ebed.etf.cuni.cz/mirrors/ccel/ccel/s/schaff/history/2_ch02.htm#_edn54] Dutch martyrs under the Duke of Alva: 50,000 (acc2 P. Sarpi) or 100,000 (acc2 Grotius) [*]Britannica, 11th ed. (1911) "Alva": Duke of Alva boasted of executing 18,000 persons in 6 years, not incl. k. battles and massacres. [*]Eerdman's Handbook to the History of Christianity (1977): 100,000 k. by Alva [*]Halley's Bible Handbook, 24th ed. (1965): 100,000 massacred under Charles V and Philip II France, Religious Wars, Catholic vs. Huguenot (1562-1598)Robert J. Knecht The French Religious Wars, 1562-1598 (2000): Deaths during the wars estimated at 2M to 4M St. Bartholomew's Massacre, France (1572) Encarta hedges its bets by giving the death toll as 2 to 100 thousand. The 15th edition of Britannica (1992) does too: 2 to 70 thousand, although it explains that the low number comes from an unnamed "Catholic apologist", while the high number comes from a contemporary Huguenot, Duke de Sully The 11th edition of Britannica (1911) was more certain: 50,000 in the whole of France Davies: 2,000 in Paris Catholic Encyclopedia: 2000 in Paris; 6000-8000 nationwide Richard Dunn, The Age of Religious Wars 1559-1715: 3,000 k in Paris, 10,000 k in provinces. Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History: 10,000 Fox's Book of Martyrs, Ch.IV: 10,000 in Paris; 6,000 in Rouen; 100,000 nationwide. Motley, Rise of the Dutch Republic: 5,000 k in Paris, 25,000-100,000 nationwide. Rummel: 36,000 democides Trager, People's Chronology: 50,000 MEDIAN: 3,000 in Paris; 36,000 nationwide Russo-Tatar War (1571)Burning of Moscow by Tatars: Half million victims (Henri Troyat, Ivan the Terrible) Spanish Armada (1588) PGtH: half of the 30,000 Spanish sailors, sailors etc. lost. 100 English KIA and 3,000 dead from food poisoning. VD Hanson: Carnage and Culture (2001): 20,000-30,000 d. Russia, Time of Troubles (1598-1613)Duffy & Ricci, Czars: Russia's rulers for over one thousand years: Population plummeted from 14M to 9M Transylvania, Countess Elizabeth Bathory (1604-1611) PGtH: 650 girls killed for their blood. Cecil Adams: 610 [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_131.html] The Thirty Years War (1618-48) Population Loss R.J. Rummel: 11.5M total deaths in the war (half democides) Richard Dunn, The Age of Religious Wars 1559-1715: Empire was 7-8M fewer C.V. Wedgwood, The Thirty Years War (1938): "The old legend that the population dropped from sixteen to four million people, rests on imagination: both figures are incorrect. The German Empire, including Alsace but excluding the Netherlands and Bohemia, probably numbered about twenty-one millions in 1618, and rather less than thirteen and a half millions in 1648. [A loss of 7½ million.] Certain authorities believe that the loss was less, but these are for the most part writers of a militaristic epoch, anxious to destroy the ugly scarecrow which throws so long a shadow over the glorious past." Alan McFarlane, The Savage Wars of Peace: England, Japan and the Malthusian Trap (2003): Population of Germany went from 21M to13.5M. [a loss of 7.5M] Geoffrey Parker, The Thirty Years War (1984): The population declined from 20M to 16 or 17M -- a loss of 3 or 4 million. Colin McEvedy, Atlas of World Population History "Germany" (1978): Population inside modern borders of Germany, 2M fewer. MEDIAN: Of the six estimates of the overall loss of population, the median is 7½M. Military Deaths Clodfelter: "one source" estimates 350,000 k. in battle Urlanis K. in Battle: 180,000 Military. Killed and died: 600,000 [*]Levy, War in the Modern Great Power System: 2,071,000 battle d. British Isles, 1641-52 English Civil WarCharles Carlton, Going to the Wars: the experience of the British Civil Wars, 1638-1651 (1992)England & Wales: 190,000Total k. in recorded fights: 84,830 Parliament: 34,130 Royalist: 50,700 [*]War-related diseases, soldiers & civilians: 100,000 [*]Bishop's Wars: 1,000 [*]Accidents: ca. 500 [*](Thomas Hobbes est. 100,000 d. from fighting & disease.) [*]Scotland: 60,000 Total k. in recorded fights: 27,895 Parliament: 16,245 Royalist: 11,765 [*][Disease: ca. 30,000], incl. ca. 10,000 POWs who never came home [*]Ireland: 618,000 [see below for details.] [*]TOTAL: 868,000 [*]Leslie Clarkson, Death Disease & Famine in Pre-industrial England (1975): 100,000 Englishmen, 1642-46 (citing another unnamed author, and doubting that this refers to battle deaths alone -- must include deaths by all causes) [*]Sorokin: 50,500 battle losses, all sides, 1642-51 IrelandCharles Carlton, Going to the Wars (1992)Petty's 1672 estimate of dead in Ireland, covering 10/1641-10/1653: Protestants d. by war, dis., malnu.: 112,000, incl. 37,000 massacred at outbreak. Carlton says that 37,000 is exaggeration by factor of 9 or 10. Catholic d.: 504,000 Total: 618,000 [sic.] [*]R.F. Foster, Modern Ireland 1600-1972 (1988) Irish population decline from 2.0M (ca. 1640) to 1.7M (1672) [i.e.: 300,000] 1641: 4,000 k. in Ulster [*]Pitirim Sorokin: The Sociology of Revolution (1967): 100,000 to 200,000 Irish massacred, 1651 Social and Cultural Dynamics, vol.3: 5,500 battle losses, 1649-52 [*]Hirst, Authority & Conflict: England, 1603-1658 (1986): Ulster rebellion, 1641: 4,000 Protestants k. immediately + 8,000 refugees died in winter. [*]Morgan, Oxford History of Britain: Ulster rebellion, 1641: 3,000 Protestants k. France, The Fronde (1648-53)Clodfelter: >50,000, only a fraction in battle Poland (1648-54) Dnieper Cossack Rebellion under Chmielnicki: 100,000 Jews k. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews, also Lipman, http://www.jewishgates.org/history/jewhis/chmiel.stm] Clodfelter: 150,000-200,000 Jews k. in pogrom, Ukraine, 1648-49 England (17th C)LOC [http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel01-2.html]: 243 Quakers died in jail of mistreatment, 1652-80 [*]Russia, (1667-71) Razin Rebellion in Volga area: 100,000 serfs d. (Richard Dunn, The Age of Religious Wars 1559-1715) [*]Franco-Dutch War (1672-78) Levy: 342,000 [*]New England, King Philip's War (1675-76) 1992 Britannica: 3,000 Indians and 600 settlers. Habsburg-Ottoman War (1682-99) Clodfelter: 120,000 k. Levy: 384,000 Russia, Peter the Great (Pyotr Alekseyevich, r.1682-1721)Peter Neville, A Traveller's History of Russia and the USSR Worker deaths during the building of St. Petersburg: "[C]ontemporary estimates gave a figure of 100,000 dead which is an exaggeration, but a figure of 30,000 is quite probable." After 1699 revolt, 1,200 strelsky (musketeers) were killed. [*]War of the League of Augsburg (1688-97) Levy: 680,000 http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm#European Henry VIII (r.1509-47) Lacey Baldwin Smith, Treason in Tudor England (1986): total of 308 traitors executed, 1532-40 Holinshed, Description of England: 72,000 "great thieves, petty thieves, and rogues" hung under Henry. Traitors and enemies of the state are implicitly excluded from this total. [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1577harrison-england.html#Chapter XVII] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Why exactly? If a religious person tells you because of what you believe you will face eternal torture and punishment, then they are just trying to 'save you' and you shouldn't complain. In fact they deserve thanks for trying to help you. If you criticize a religious belief you are a hateful bigot. Clearly the two are very different. I'd have more sympathy for the pastor's point of view if he cared enough about hate to also criticize Jack Chick, James Hagee and all the other other hateful evangelicals, even if they don't use a rude word in their messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfoom Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 More people have died in Christs name than any other person in the history of the world.... The list is long of attrocities committed in Christ's name by people who believed they were doing God's bidding. The vast majority of genocide you point to were done by rulers who 'claimed' to be doing the work of religion, but were actually doen for political reasons by killing all those who criticized the secular ruling. By the way, if you look at the data you presented, the claims of millions killed are greatly exaggerated when looked at by reviewers of the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 You can opennly condemn both, and believe both have no place in your community; and still not be in favor of jailing either....There is a price to be paid for living in a free society. Part of that price is being offended by other peoples poor choices in how they use that freedom. Thanks for answering a question I didn't ask. If a religious person tells you because of what you believe you will face eternal torture and punishment, then they are just trying to 'save you' and you shouldn't complain. In fact they deserve thanks for trying to help you.If you criticize a religious belief you are a hateful bigot. Being critical is one thing, nothing wrong with criticism IMHO.Being downright rude and nasty is another. I'd have more sympathy for the pastor's point of view if he cared enough about hate to also criticize Jack Chick, James Hagee and all the other other hateful evangelicals, even if they don't use a rude word in their messages.I'm critical of those guys all the time. I can't stand either one. Jack Chick is a rude jerk devoid of anything remotely resembling compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The list is long of attrocities committed in Christ's name by people who believed they were doing God's bidding. It is, but it's not the list you presented, which contains a mass of conflicting and somteimes outright outrageously exaggerated figures, many of which have absolutely no connection to your premise. If you want to make that case, you'll need to go through the sources, clean them up, account for the conflicts and exaggerations, and eliminate the purely political battles like the War of the Roses, which had nothing to do with Christianity except that both sides were Christians (it was a civil war over disputed succession). Your list is useless, as is, even if it's trustworthy (and errols.com is not high on my list when I tell my students how to find a reliable website for research. ) Of course, I don't see the point. It's pretty undeniable that since the 4th century, Jesus has been used as an excuse by greedy political leaders to take the stuff of other greedy political leaders. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuggs Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Nothing done to him on earth will ever compare to what awaits him if he doesn't change his ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Nothing done to him on earth will ever compare to what awaits him if he doesn't change his ways. Amen. There's nothing the good Lord loves more than burning his children for all eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuggs Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Everyone has a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 This is one of those opportunities to 'turn the other cheek'. Lets see who will. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 This is one of those opportunities to 'turn the other cheek'.Lets see who will. ~Bang Australia is a very secular country, by my understanding, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the various officials involved in the arrest and enforcement were not, in fact, Christians. I'm sick of atheists telling me what I can and can't wear! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 This is one of those opportunities to 'turn the other cheek'.Lets see who will. ~Bang says who? even God smited those who mocked him at times..why should I have to turn the other cheek? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 says who?even God smited those who mocked him at times..why should I have to turn the other cheek? Are you God? Generally speaking, it's not up to us to do the smiting. "Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord" Haven't you watched Pulp Fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Are you God? Generally speaking, it's not up to us to do the smiting."Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord" Haven't you watched Pulp Fiction. the fact that you try to quote Pulp Fiction to me when Sam Jackson quotes the bible before killing people makes me think you didnt watch it very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 the fact that you try to quote Pulp Fiction to me when Sam Jackson quotes the bible before killing people makes me think you didnt watch it very well The first two comments were serious. I'd suggest not modeling one's Christian walk on Samuel L. Jackson movie characters, if you needed that clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The first two comments were serious. I'd suggest not modeling one's Christian walk on Samuel L. Jackson movie characters, if you needed that clarification. it may not be up to me to do something but it is my choice on whether or not to. and if I choose to smash that dude in the face and help him collect his teeth with the shirt then thats fine with me. I will apologize to the Lord when I see him. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 says who?even God smited those who mocked him at times..why should I have to turn the other cheek? uh, because God told you to? Isn't vengeance to be his, sayeth He? Because He said it is not yours to judge, and He said let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and to love your neighbor. This is the thing that kills me about most religious types. MOST of you guys have absolutely no concept of how you're expected to behave. One other guy in this thread said this kid would go to Hell. Well, shoot man, look around. So are 95% of those who profess to believe. The overwhelming majority of religious people I have met are judgmental, are covetous, are envious, are positively DRIPPING with mortal sins. But somehow, because they 'believe' in Him, even though they basically sneer at his rules, they expect to get their eternal reward. And then so many of you feel it necessary to try to tell me how to live. Reminder. I'm an atheist. And I follow the rules better than most Christians I've met. For the record, I think this kid was ignorant and tasteless at best. But, that's what teenagers do, right? Buck the system? I don't believe Jesus was the son of God, but that shirt would offend me if I walked down the street and saw it. There's no point to it other than to be offensive, and free speech needs to be used better than that. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 uh, because God told you to?Isn't vengeance to be his, sayeth He? Because He said it is not yours to judge, and He said let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and to love your neighbor. This is the thing that kills me about most religious types. MOST of you guys have absolutely no concept of how you're expected to behave. One other guy in this thread said this kid would go to Hell. Well, shoot man, look around. So are 95% of those who profess to believe. The overwhelming majority of religious people I have met are judgmental, are covetous, are envious, are positively DRIPPING with mortal sins. But somehow, because they 'believe' in Him, even though they basically sneer at his rules, they expect to get their eternal reward. And then so many of you feel it necessary to try to tell me how to live. Reminder. I'm an atheist. And I follow the rules better than most Christians I've met. ~Bang yeah, you follow the rules better except for the biggest one which is to believe in him and praise him. nice try man but I dont take advice from athiests when it comes to religion. I think you are an intelligent man Bang and I mean no offense to you but it would be like me telling you how to draw cartoons when I have never drawn anything but a stick figure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 yeah, you follow the rules better except for the biggest one which is to believe in him and praise him. nice try man but I dont take advice from athiests when it comes to religion. I think you are an intelligent man Bang and I mean no offense to you but it would be like me telling you how to draw cartoons when I have never drawn anything but a stick figure.. Again, I don't believe, but here i sit listening to all these Christians judge and condemn this kid. Seems a bit contradictory to me. I would suggest that if the rules were followed better, I'd have nothing to say on the matter. I'm not giving you advice from an Atheist. I'm reminding you what the God you believe in told you. The cartoon analogy would work if there was a 2000 year old book that i swear my life upon telling me how I MUST draw a cartoon, and I deviated from that. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Again, I don't believe, but here i sit listening to all these Christians judge and condemn this kid.Seems a bit contradictory to me. I would suggest that if the rules were followed better, I'd have nothing to say on the matter. I'm not giving you advice from an Atheist. I'm reminding you what the God you believe in told you. ~Bang and once again you cant tell me what to believe and not believe just because you think you know something cuz you read the bible. why would you even read a book when you dont believe the author even exists? Seems a bit hypocritcal that you are telling me what rules to follow when you dont even follow the biggest one. Believing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 and once again you cant tell me what to believe and not believe just because you think you know something cuz you read the bible.why would you even read a book when you dont believe the author even exists? Seems a bit hypocritcal that you are telling me what rules to follow when you dont even follow the biggest one. Believing. You're right. I made all that stuff up about what God supposedly said. It's not about me, Mike, it's about what that book says. Am I misinterpreting what it means? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 You're right. I made all that stuff up about what God supposedly said.It's not about me, Mike, it's about what that book says. Am I misinterpreting what it means? ~Bang you arent someone who I would listen to represent The Bible bro. Like I said, nothing personal but you are a non believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 you arent someone who I would listen to represent The Bible bro. Like I said, nothing personal but you are a non believer. Of course there's no offense,, shouldn't even worry about that. So if a priest told you the same thing, that makes it more valid? I may not believe in the entity, but the rules are pretty good. So I live by them. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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