Lawmaker says he'll defy city's ban on weapons

[sacase]

I love it, an AIRPORT MANAGER stating that he doesn't care what the laws say. This guy just needs to be fired.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/business/stories/2008/06/30/airport_gun_showdown.html

New gun law sets stage for airport showdown

Lawmaker says he'll defy city's ban on weapons

By JIM THARPE

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 07/01/08

You could call it the Atlanta version of "High Noon."

Top city officials will announce Tuesday that despite a new state gun law that went into effect at midnight, they will have anyone carrying a weapon at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport arrested. The state lawmaker who sponsored the new gun law says if they do, the city will immediately be sued. And state Rep. Tim Bearden (R-Villa Rica) said the plaintiff in the lawsuit could be himself.

"I have a permit, and I have family I have to pick up at the airport tomorrow [Tuesday]," Bearden told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Monday. "I'll have one [a concealed weapon] with me at all times."

Airport General Manager Ben DeCosta said if Bearden shows up at the world's busiest airport with a gun, he'll be busted.

"I can identify him, and I'll have him arrested," DeCosta said Monday. "We're not fooling around. This is a post-terrorism environment."

The new law, which Bearden sponsored, permits licensed gun owners to carry concealed firearms in parks, on public transportation and in restaurants that serve liquor. The law takes effect Tuesday.

Firearms proponents hailed the law as a victory for the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. They say law-abiding citizens with the appropriate permits should be allowed to carry firearms in formerly forbidden areas for self-protection.

Before the new law was passed, Georgia law banned guns from venues like public transportation and restaurants serving alcohol. More than 40 other states permit guns on public transportation, Bearden said, and 37 allow permit holders to carry weapons into restaurants.

"I was in law enforcement for 15 years," Bearden said as the bill awaited the governor's signature two months ago. "I never rode up on a shooting in progress. I don't like the idea of the police telling you, 'Get mugged, get raped, get murdered. We'll come by, take the report, or send flowers.' That's the wrong message."

Opponents, however, blasted the proposal, saying it has the potential to spark more violence than it stops. DeCosta wrote to Gov. Sonny Perdue asking him to veto the bill, and Mayor Shirley Franklin and MARTA officials publicly lambasted the idea. MARTA bus drivers gathered more than 1,000 signatures on petitions demanding bulletproof shields.

Federal law already bans guns past the security checkpoints at U.S. airports. The new state law, however, apparently would permit guns to be carried on the non-secure side of Hartsfield-Jackson by people who have gone through a background check and have been certified to carry a weapon. Licensed gun owners would be permitted to carry weapons on public transportation coming into the airport, its lobby and in restaurants outside the security checkpoints.

DeCosta said he will use the first day the new law takes effect to declare Hartsfield-Jackson a "gun-free" zone.

"We're going to make it clear that the law does not make any allowance for guns at the airport," DeCosta said. "Guns are not appropriate for any airport in Georgia."

He and Franklin plan a 10 a.m. news conference to discuss the new gun law.

Bearden said the new law clearly permits guns in some areas of the airport.

"They are not appropriate once you go past security," he said. "But in parking lots or restaurants or public transportation, they are OK."

The state lawmaker said the city does not have the authority to defy a state law, and if they make arrests they will end up in court.

DeCosta said city officials will not back down from their position on the new law and again vowed to have Bearden or anyone else carrying a gun on airport property arrested.

"He can then have all the NRA [National Rifle Association] lawyers say why it's OK for him to bring a gun to the airport," DeCosta said.

MARTA, meanwhile, released a statement late Monday noting that state law prohibits firearms on public transit unless the carrier has a valid license to carry a gun.

"This license must be carried at any time that an individual is carrying a firearm on MARTA," the statement said.

--------------------------------

One thing I am curious about, how many times have people with concealed carry permits commited a crime.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

The President needs to be fired for the exact same reason.

Actually though, I don't think the new SC decision will do much to change airport regulations. It's already been decided that you give up many of your rights when you decide to go to the airport and ride on a plane.

[Popeman38]

One thing I am curious about, how many times have people with concealed carry permits commited a crime.

The fraction of a percentage is so low, it is negligable.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Guns in airports=bad.

I think the guy is foolish however, he's not going to win this fight.

But if you ask me its a dumb law. There are certain places that guns should not be allowed in such as bars (alcohol + guns = bad), and I would say security sensitive places such as airports should also be included.

Obviously there are metal detectors and X-ray machines and the like to prevent people from bringing guns on the planes etc but honestly, the TSA is full of epic fail

[Dan T.]

I'm sure it varies by State, but what training, testing, or background checking is involved in obtaining a concealed weapons permit? Anybody know?

[Popeman38]

Guns in airports=bad.

I think the guy is foolish however, he's not going to win this fight.

But if you ask me its a dumb law. There are certain places that guns should not be allowed in such as bars (alcohol + guns = bad), and I would say security sensitive places such as airports should also be included.

Obviously there are metal detectors and X-ray machines and the like to prevent people from bringing guns on the planes etc but honestly, the TSA is full of epic fail

If I had to guess, consumption of alcohol while carrying concealed is off limits. Plus, guns are not allowed into bars, just restaraunts. They are not allowed past security at airports.

In addition, concealed permit holders do not commit crimes. Data will never support the position that concealed permit holders should worry the populous. You have to meet certain standards and training to get a concealed carry permit.

[Popeman38]

I'm sure it varies by State, but what training, testing, or background checking is involved in obtaining a concealed weapons permit? Anybody know?

Virginia:

Application for a Concealed Handgun Permit

Any person 21 years of age or older may apply in writing to the clerk of the circuit court of the county or city in which he or she resides, or if he is a member of the United States armed forces, the county or city in which he is domiciled, for a five-year permit to carry a concealed handgun. There is no requirement as to the length of time an applicant for a Concealed Handgun Permit must have been a resident or domiciliary of the county or city where he or she resides.

The application may be obtained from the circuit court, sheriff’s office, or police department. The form (SP-248 Application for Concealed Handgun Permit) also may be downloaded and/or printed from this web site. This form can be viewed, downloaded and/or printed by visiting the Virginia State Police Forms page.

The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:

1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;
   
2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
   
3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;
   
4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
   
5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;
   
6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;
   
7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;
   
8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or
   
9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.
   

A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught such course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this subsection.

No applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence, nor shall any proof of demonstrated competence expire.

The court shall charge a fee of $10.00 for the processing of an application or issuing of a permit. Local law enforcement agencies may charge a fee not to exceed $35.00 to cover the cost of conducting an investigation pursuant to this Code section. The State Police may charge a fee not to exceed $5.00 to cover the cost associated with processing the application. The total amount of the charges may not exceed $50.00, and payment may be made by any method accepted by the court.

No fee shall be charged for the issuance of a permit to a person who has retired from service as a magistrate in the Commonwealth, as a special agent with the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board or as a law-enforcement officer with the Department of State Police, the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries, or a sheriff or police department, bureau or force of any political subdivision of the Commonwealth, as a law-enforcement officer with the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Secret Service Agency, Drug Enforcement Administration, United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, Customs Service, Department of State Diplomatic Security Service, U.S. Marshals Service or Naval Criminal Investigative Service, after completing 15 years of service or after reaching age 55; as a law-enforcement officer with any police or sheriff's department within the United States, the District of Columbia or any of the territories of the United States, after completing 15 years of service; or as a credentialed intelligence agent of the armed forces of the United States or of a civilian agency of the United States government, after completing 15 years of service; or as a law-enforcement officer with any combination of the agencies listed in clauses (ii) through (iv), after completing 15 years of service.

The court shall issue the permit within 45 days of receipt of the completed application unless it appears that the applicant is disqualified.

The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

If I had to guess, consumption of alcohol while carrying concealed is off limits. Plus, guns are not allowed into bars, just restaraunts. They are not allowed past security at airports.

In addition, concealed permit holders do not commit crimes. Data will never support the position that concealed permit holders should worry the populous. You have to meet certain standards and training to get a concealed carry permit.

There are some people that want to allow guns to be carried into bars in Tennessee.

I understand the statistics, but I still feel that airports should fall under the category of "places that guns probably shouldn't be allowed in". Leave it in your car, there are so many well armed police in an airport...is it really necessary to be packing heat?

[DGreenistheBest]

Its obviously a complicated situation that needs to be addressed, but the short answer is no one has any business taking a gun into an airport.

[Dan T.]

Virginia:

Thanks. So at least they make some effort to ensure that the applicant has completed some type of weapons training...

[sacase]

Well I am a firm beliver that no one should be taking guns past the screeners. Anything before that is fair game and well within our second amendment rights.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Well I am a firm beliver that no one should be taking guns past the screeners. Anything before that is fair game and well within our second amendment rights.

That's just not true.

[Burgold]

Not a good law. I wonder if the FAA laws about handguns and objects permissable at an airport overrides this. It would be a shame if this went to court and it turned out that you are allowed to bring a loaded gun with you, but that a bottle of water or razor blades were deemed hazardous.

[sacase]

Not a good law. I wonder if the FAA laws about handguns and objects permissable at an airport overrides this. It would be a shame if this went to court and it turned out that you are allowed to bring a loaded gun with you, but that a bottle of water or razor blades were deemed hazardous.

That is actually a pretty good question. I would think that the FAA rules cover the secured areas of the airport such as the area past the security check point and the airplanes. But as far as the public areas, I don't think that they apply.

Personally I don't care about the area before the check point. However, I do think it is bad to bring a gun into a bar. But with that said, people with Concealed Carry Permits don't committ crimes with them.

[jpillian]

That's just not true.

TSF, I'd be interested in your expanding on this a bit.

It seems that the Georgia law would allow for what sacase is saying.

[Burgold]

It's a very difficult argument to make that this area is safe for hand guns, but three feet later is not. If you can make the legal argument stick that gun are okay in the lobby, then it would be a simple legal case to make it legal throughout the airport.

It either is or it isn't. :2cents:

[sacase]

It's a very difficult argument to make that this area is safe for hand guns, but three feet later is not. If you can make the legal argument stick that gun are okay in the lobby, then it would be a simple legal case to make it legal throughout the airport.

It either is or it isn't. :2cents:

Ok here is an example. I work in a secured facility and we work with a lot of guys who are Federal Investigators/Agents. They have to store their firearms at the security desk prior to coming into the office area. See...simple.

[Burgold]

Harder though for non-employees.

I think the simplest thing is to simply say, if we think guns inside airports are a threat and shouldn't be permitted, then guns at airports are a no no. Keep em locked in your trunk while you're waiting at baggage claim or helping drop someone off.

Who knows? Maybe I've just seen too many thrillers and action movies where airports are the venues for assassination attempts :laugh:

[TMK9973]

Notice the manager said that he will declare the airport a "Gun free Zone". Now- Is that just a term, or is it a legal opening?

IE -The state said Guns may be allowed to be carried in a Restaurant. But if I open a restaurant, as the owner, don't I have every right to say "No guns allowed"?

Must would argue that a private business can do it.

So now what about Public Government buildings? Can the person in charge of the building ban it? Most would say no.

But Airports are different. They are run by the government, for non-government companies. I believe - (and I could be wrong) that in fact ATL is actually run by a private management company. So can that management company say that yes - The State now allows you to carry a gun at a airport, but I will not allow it at my airport.

Oh - And Popeman - You said the stats are very low that people with concealed weapons commit crimes. Is that just your guess, or do you have something to back that up?

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I'll vouch for Popeman, what he says is true.

CCW holders rarely commit crimes but you make a good point TMK.

Airports are privately owned property, so they can in fact refuse to allow firearms as far as I know.

[Redskins Diehard]

Harder though for non-employees.

I think the simplest thing is to simply say, if we think guns inside airports are a threat and shouldn't be permitted, then guns at airports are a no no. Keep em locked in your trunk while you're waiting at baggage claim or helping drop someone off.

Who knows? Maybe I've just seen too many thrillers and action movies where airports are the venues for assassination attempts :laugh:

The issue isn't that we have decided guns are dangerous in airports. We have decided that they are dangerous on planes.(The same for razor blades and water bottles...bring to the airport all you want, just not past security).

To me the airport(prior to security) is the same as any other public place.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

The issue isn't that we have decided guns are dangerous in airports. We have decided that they are dangerous on planes.(The same for razor blades and water bottles...bring to the airport all you want, just not past security).

To me the airport(prior to security) is the same as any other public place.

What about other public places like the Smithsonian?

Should guns be allowed in there?

[Burgold]

What about other public places like the Smithsonian?

Should guns be allowed in there?

Heck, I'll go further. Every year, thousands of Americans and foreign visitors get to tour the public areas of the White House. Should they be allowed to carry firearms in White House public areas?

[Redskins Diehard]

What about other public places like the Smithsonian?

Should guns be allowed in there?

I think the Smithsonian is a "government building"...pretty sure guns aren't allowed in any of those....or government land for that matter(I don't think they are permitted in National Parks...at least not in the Shenandoah).

Do I think guns should be allowed in the Smithsonian....I don't see the issue but I am sure somebody has. Maybe it has to do with protecting the exhibits?

I think this applies to Burgold's question also

[sacase]

What about other public places like the Smithsonian?

Should guns be allowed in there?

Personally, I would care less if a person had a CCW license and had their gun with them I am to busy looking at the dinosaurs to worry about someone having a gun next to me. Guns don't scare me....sorry.