Yahoo: Dobson blasts Obama; blriesenbeck07 is sick of holier than thou lunatics

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Nope just one of those people who think a beating heart inside of a womb is that of a human being.

I can respect that view.

[GoSkins561]

I can respect that view.

Now back to the real issues, Obama's past.

[prophet]

Now back to the real issues, Obama's past.

I dunno let's ask his Pastor of 20 years.... :doh:

[Destino]

Nope just one of those people who think a beating heart inside of a womb is that of a human being.

and that the poor are lazy and deserve what they get?

[GoSkins561]

and that the poor are lazy and deserve what they get?

Adoption over murder any day.

[Destino]

Adoption over murder any day.

I agree... but I wasn't talking about abortion.

[techboy]

I agree... but I wasn't talking about abortion.

If Obama was pro-life, he'd win in a landslide.

Of course, he might anyway.

Heck, I've said this before, but if the Democratic Party ever went pro-life, they'd have a permanent majority.

[Destino]

If Obama was pro-life, he'd win in a landslide.

Of course, he might anyway.

Heck, I've said this before, but if the Democratic Party ever went pro-life, they'd have a permanent majority.

Not sure if I agree. I think a total ban on abortion is wrong and no different than forcing people to donate blood, bone marrow, and kidneys. Some abortion needs to be banned but there is a line where you can't force people to keep a third party alive... especially in those cases where they were denied a choice in the first place.

[GoSkins561]

I agree... but I wasn't talking about abortion.

and that the poor are lazy and deserve what they get?

If people choose to sit around, drink, do drugs and collect checks, they deserve to discover which trash can serves up the best food.

Now for the working poor, I realize there are plenty of hard working Americans who make very little money and will work three jobs if that's what they need to do to support their family. With that being said, there are ways to improve yourself in the United States, educational grants, loans, technical institutes etc offer plenty of ways to improve your situation and provide you with the means to make more money. People just need to look around and they will see.

[Destino]

If people choose to sit around, drink, do drugs and collect checks, they deserve to discover which trash can serves up the best food.

How very christian of you. Do you have any proof that you are a christian? I'm having my doubts.

Now for the working poor, I realize there are plenty of hard working Americans who make very little money and will work three jobs if that's what they need to do to support their family. With that being said, there are ways to improve yourself in the United States, educational grants, loans, technical institutes etc offer plenty of ways to improve your situation and provide you with the means to make more money. People just need to look around and they will see.

So... they deserve what they get. got it.

How very Christian of you.

[techboy]

Not sure if I agree. I think a total ban on abortion is wrong and no different than forcing people to donate blood, bone marrow, and kidneys. Some abortion needs to be banned but there is a line where you can't force people to keep a third party alive... especially in those cases where they were denied a choice in the first place.

I'm not going to argue with you about abortion. I'm just going to point out that none of this in any way adddresses my assertion that if Obama was pro-life he'd win in a land-slide.

He would, too, because there are a lot of evangelicals that would love to vote on issues like the poor or the environment or the war, but are forced by an American genocide to keep voting Republican.

And please don't tell me that Republicans don't actually help on abortion, because whether or not that's actually true, it's also irrelevant, because it's still why most evangelicals vote Republican.

[Zguy28]

I'm not going to argue with you about abortion. I'm just going to point out that none of this in any way adddresses my assertion that if Obama was pro-life he'd win in a land-slide.

He would, too, because there are a lot of evangelicals that would love to vote on issues like the poor or the environment or the war, but are forced by an American genocide to keep voting Republican.

And please don't tell me that Republicans don't actually help on abortion, because whether or not that's actually true, it's also irrelevant, because it's still why most evangelicals vote Republican.

You said it brother.

[Destino]

And please don't tell me that Republicans don't actually help on abortion, because whether or not that's actually true, it's also irrelevant, because it's still why most evangelicals vote Republican.

I'm not an evangelical so I can't say why they vote the way they do. I know catholics are forced to hold their noses and vote republican because of the abortion issue. I agree that without that issue the GOP would be screwed... or rather forced to return to conservative stances of the past (before Reagan).

[mardi gras skin]

How very christian of you. Do you have any proof that you are a christian? I'm having my doubts.

So... they deserve what they get. got it.

How very Christian of you.

No Destino, they don't deserve what they get. They deserve much better. But I spend a lot of time with people who refuse to improve their lives. Our church has worked to help families get out of debt, get good jobs, move away from dependency habits, etc. But often, there's a lack of discipline there that keeps them from getting over the hump no matter how much help they get.

I've got some good friends that are in that situation right now. I don't know what else to do for them. I do know that giving them more to use poorly will not help them. They're adults and they'll have to decide to make adult decisions before they should be given anything else.

What worries me about social services being offered by large agencies is that you don't get the personal knowledge about the situation. Its too cookie cutter. I wish more social services happened at the church level...but its not the government's fault that the church abdicated its responsibility.

[Heisenberg]

No Destino, they don't deserve what they get. They deserve much better. But I spend a lot of time with people who refuse to improve their lives. Our church has worked to help families get out of debt, get good jobs, move away from dependency habits, etc. But often, there's a lack of discipline there that keeps them from getting over the hump no matter how much help they get.

I've got some good friends that are in that situation right now. I don't know what else to do for them. I do know that giving them more to use poorly will not help them. They're adults and they'll have to decide to make adult decisions before they should be given anything else.

What worries me about social services being offered by large agencies is that you don't get the personal knowledge about the situation. Its too cookie cutter. I wish more social services happened at the church level...but its not the government's fault that the church abdicated its responsibility.

I think if that were the case you'd have a case where churches were trying to force their religion down the throats of the poor in exchange for the services you are discussing.

I know in the eyes of a lot of regular church attendees that would be considered a good thing but I think even the poor have a right to think for themselves.

I'm not sure what the best solution is to that problem though.

:2cents:

[Zguy28]

I think if that were the case you'd have a case where churches were trying to force their religion down the throats of the poor in exchange for the services you are discussing.

I know in the eyes of a lot of regular church attendees that would be considered a good thing but I think even the poor have a right to think for themselves.

I'm not sure what the best solution is to that problem though.

:2cents:

Can you give us an example of that which you speak of?

If you go to church, should the Pastor not preach because its taking away your right to think for yourself?

I'll go one better, if you go to political rally of whatever candidate, are they taking away your right to think for yourself by preaching their message?

Neither are we.

It seems in your world, you'd have nobody ever express their religious views to others. What a sad world that is.

[mardi gras skin]

I think if that were the case you'd have a case where churches were trying to force their religion down the throats of the poor in exchange for the services you are discussing.

When you call to mind exceptions within any group and present them as normative, you're causing senseless division. Put away your stereotypes. We are doing good, and we are doing it without cramming anything anywhere.

I think the church should be so good at loving our neighbors that the government would think it a waste of funds to duplicate the work.

[prophet]

Can you give us an example of that which you speak of?

If you go to church, should the Pastor not preach because its taking away your right to think for yourself?

I'll go one better, if you go to political rally of whatever candidate, are they taking away your right to think for yourself by preaching their message?

Neither are we.

It seems in your world, you'd have nobody ever express their religious views to others. What a sad world that is.

You my friend are on fire today! :applause:

[Heisenberg]

Can you give us an example of that which you speak of?

If you go to church, should the Pastor not preach because its taking away your right to think for yourself?

I'll go one better, if you go to political rally of whatever candidate, are they taking away your right to think for yourself by preaching their message?

Neither are we.

It seems in your world, you'd have nobody ever express their religious views to others. What a sad world that is.

Hard to give an example when we're talking about a hypothetical situation

I have no problem with churches preaching to those that come there as I think many churches do a lot of good in the community.

However, when you start making Churches the only option for the poor and homeless (as I think was the example that he was trying to make - take it out of the governments hands and put it in the hands of the church) then I'm not sure how I felt about it.

Not sure how you are on fire when I was stating an opinion but you easily offended posters are a prime example of the problem SOME people have with religion (not God).

[Thinking Skins]

yawn.....wake me when this is over.

[RedskinsFanInTX]

Obama wants to preach, where did he get his facts from? Rev. Wright?

"I don't think it [a same-sex union] should be called marriage, but I think that it is a legal right that they should have that is recognized by the state," Obama said. "If people find that controversial, then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans.".

http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=28357

[Zguy28]

Hard to give an example when we're talking about a hypothetical situation

I'm sorry, it appeared that you were citing a well-established example. I think MGS interpreted it that way as well.

I have no problem with churches preaching to those that come there as I think many churches do a lot of good in the community.

Great, we are in agreement then.

However, when you start making Churches the only option for the poor and homeless (as I think was the example that he was trying to make - take it out of the governments hands and put it in the hands of the church) then I'm not sure how I felt about it.

I think you missed the point. The point is, if the church did like its supposed to, the government would have to do little to nothing about the poor and homeless because they wouldn't need to. It wouldn't be a problem.

Not sure how you are on fire when I was stating an opinion but you easily offended posters are a prime example of the problem SOME people have with religion (not God).

Trust me, I'm not easily offended. I sit here and read anti-religious crud everyday on this board. I had to speak up though when people are trying to silence us just because we are religious.:2cents:

[Zguy28]

You my friend are on fire today! :applause:

Stop, drop, and roll!

[Heisenberg]

Trust me, I'm not easily offended. I sit here and read anti-religious crud everyday on this board. I had to speak up though when people are trying to silence us just because we are religious.:2cents:

That's all well and good but it seems to me you are being kind of easily offended. I still haven't figured out why it matters who I am or am not voting for. I have stated many times I lean towards Obama on policy matters but would consider McCain as well if he made a good showing in debates or what not. My vote doesn't belong to a particular party in any given election - I vote for the individual.

I don't really see how anyone was trying to silence you. I don't mind having a civil debate on religion but I think most people would do better to do work in the community as you suggested instead of telling people like myself that you KNOW what's best for me or anyone else and what we should believe.

[ACW]

I had to speak up though when people are trying to silence us just because we are religious.:2cents:

There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and trying to silence them.