rincewind Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I was referring to modern influences NOT missionaries. I figured - but zguy was talking about being a missionary. Personally, I think we should just leave them the hell alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I figured - but zguy was talking about being a missionary. Personally, I think we should just leave them the hell alone. Ah... but unless a missionary let's them know what their 'choices' are they can't go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Deadman Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 It looks like the two with the bows escaped from Willy Wonka's Chocolate factory. "oompa Loompa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hey zoony - don't you think Jared Diamond wets his pants reading news reports like this? This is probably Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year's all rolled in to one for him. You gotta admit, it would be very interesting to see what kind of customs, technology, religion, etc. they have developed. Problem is, if they so much as shake hands with a white man, they'll probably drop dead on the spot from bacterial infection. I hope if some scientists do go down there they wear ET suits and bring lots of hand sanitizer. And I know folks are joking in this thread, but what this tribe has to fear from missionaries -vs- what they have to fear from scientists is the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing one. After all, who snapped these pictures to begin with? I can pretty much guarantee that there's some folks planning an expedition as we speak... and I'd be willing to bet anyone that they're not missionairies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPlainsDrifter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I figured - but zguy was talking about being a missionary. Personally, I think we should just leave them the hell alone. I agree. Just because they look unhappy, dirty, and impoverished to us does not mean that they are. The last thing that they need is some "enlightened" person to come around and start telling them how it "really" is. The whole thought of a tribe that is living in harmony with the ecosystem that they are a part of being "taught" the ways of the world sickens me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 It looks like the two with the bows escaped from Willy Wonka's Chocolate factory. "oompa Loompa" nice! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 that right there is stuff nightmares of mine are made of. they would probably beat me to death and then cannibalize me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 It looks like the two with the bows escaped from Willy Wonka's Chocolate factory. "oompa Loompa" The 'brother' isn't packing a bow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 You gotta admit, it would be very interesting to see what kind of customs, technology, religion, etc. they have developed. Problem is, if they so much as shake hands with a white man, they'll probably drop dead on the spot from bacterial infection. I hope if some scientists do go down there they wear ET suits and bring lots of hand sanitizer. And I know folks are joking in this thread, but what this tribe has to fear from missionaries -vs- what they have to fear from scientists is the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing one. After all, who snapped these pictures to begin with? I can pretty much guarantee that there's some folks planning an expedition as we speak... and I'd be willing to bet anyone that they're not missionairies I think what a lot of people have a problem with is what highplains is saying. NOBODY wants to see them die, but most people think scientist would go in and observe and maybe try to heal the physically sick. Non-religious folks look at missionaries as messing with their beliefs/heads and that seems somewhat vulgar. I realize its a sticky situation because Christians believe they are commissioned by God to spread the word and they (usually) honestly feel they are doing good. I don't think there is really an easy answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 The whole thought of a tribe that is living in harmony with the ecosystem that they are a part of being "taught" the ways of the world sickens me. Make no mistake, if they needed to destroy the ecosystem in order to further their survival, they would. This isn't a New Englander writing reflective essays next to a pond in the woods, this is a band of humans doing whatever necessary to survive. Just because they lack the technology and/or resources to have a larger environmental footprint doesn't mean they wouldn't, or have some sort of inherant moral objection to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPlainsDrifter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 The 'brother' isn't packing a bow? I think thats actually a "sister". In one of the pictures, she appears to be very well...hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think what a lot of people have a problem with is what highplains is saying. NOBODY wants to see them die, but most people think scientist would go in and observe and maybe try to heal the physically sick. Non-religious folks look at missionaries as messing with their beliefs/heads and that seems somewhat vulgar. I realize its a sticky situation because Christians believe they are commissioned by God to spread the word and they (usually) honestly feel they are doing good. I don't think there is really an easy answer. There's never an easy answer... but interference is interference no matter what. No cause is more inherently noble than another. That said, imo, "interfering" with this tribe doesn't make me ill/sick at all. It's just the way of things. Since the beginning of time. More advanced civilizations swallowing up those that are less advanced... or at a minimum imposing their culture/technologies/disease. It would do no more good to get upset at this idea than it would for the passage of time. The strong survive, the weak don't. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 How did that work out for the American Indian?How did it work out for the Waodani?Watch the movie The End of the Spear and let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPlainsDrifter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Make no mistake, if they needed to destroy the ecosystem in order to further their survival, they would. This isn't a New Englander writing reflective essays next to a pond in the woods, this is a band of humans doing whatever necessary to survive.Just because they lack the technology and/or resources to have a larger environmental footprint doesn't mean they wouldn't, or have some sort of inherant moral objection to it. Don't be so sure about that, they don't look Caucasian to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Don't be so sure about that, they don't look Caucasian to me. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPlainsDrifter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 How did it work out for the Waodani?Watch the movie The End of the Spear and let me know. It appears that they are slowly losing their culture and heritage. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Make no mistake, if they needed to destroy the ecosystem in order to further their survival, they would. This isn't a New Englander writing reflective essays next to a pond in the woods, this is a band of humans doing whatever necessary to survive.Just because they lack the technology and/or resources to have a larger environmental footprint doesn't mean they wouldn't, or have some sort of inherant moral objection to it. You seem to be the one making the mistake. Many natives cultures respected nature. The reasons they didn't slaughter and chop down everything in sight is out of that respect not lack of ideas. Doesn't take a great deal of brilliance to realize you can kill every animal and sell it's skin - it does however take a lot of arrogance and no forward thinking to speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 It appears that they are slowly losing their culture and heritage. :doh:I guess if murdering themselves (women and children included) into extinction is a culture and heritage you want to hold on to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 That's kind of obvious when talking to me I would think.Why should they be left alone? You don't think modern medicine would be beneficial to them? Or food? and a book about Jesus, the rapture is near :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPlainsDrifter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Care to elaborate? Not too much but...It is MY PERSONAL OPINION that the white man has been consistent in one thing though out history. And that is spreading disease and wiping out other people with little to no thought as to the impact on the cultures or local ecosystems. Sometimes they think they are helping to educate or enlighten spiritually, and other times they were just clearing out the "savages". Being a white male, I am often embarrassed as I hear people talk of "sending people back to Africa or Mexico" when truthfully, it is the whites who have consistently invaded and taken over indigenous peoples lands. The idea of a people scraping by on what nature provides to them is romantic to me, and I truly hope that people will someday come to a place where they can be intrigued by other cultures and learn from them instead of trying to actively change them for what they perceive to be better. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 and a book about Jesus, the rapture is near :laugh:You believe in that rapture non-sense? Dean, my opinion of you just went down a notch. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I guess if murdering themselves (women and children included) into extinction is a culture and heritage you want to hold on to... There is this notion that culture is worth holding onto. I've never understood it personally. Culture and tradition are great if they are generating positive results. If however they aren't serving the people be rid of it and change for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLockesGhost Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Not too much but...It is MY PERSONAL OPINION that the white man has been consistent in one thing though out history. And that is spreading disease and wiping out other cultures with little to no thought as to the impact on the cultures or local ecosystems. Sometimes they think they are helping to educate or enlighten spiritually and other times they just were clearing out the "savages". Being a white male, I am often embarrassed as I hear people talk of "sending people back to Africa or Mexico" when truthfully, it is the whites who have consistently invaded and taken over indigenous peoples lands. The idea of a people scraping by on what nature provides to them is romantic to me, and I truly hope that people will someday come to a place where they can be intrigued by other cultures and learn from them instead of trying to actively change them for what they perceive to be better. That is all. Ah, Rousseau's noble savage. I'm more a Hobbes guy myself. Life for these people is most likely nasty, brutal and short. Not much romance about it. But at least they're energy independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPlainsDrifter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I guess if murdering themselves (women and children included) into extinction is a culture and heritage you want to hold on to... It is what it is. Too bad we be around to ask their descendants how they feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPlainsDrifter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Ah, Rouseau's noble savage.I'm more a Hobbes guy myself. Life for these people is most likely nasty, brutal and short. Not much romance about it. But at least they're energy independent. I would agree with this. However, this does not mean they are unhappy. On the other side of the coin, they probably have a very tight family unit (no sending grandma off to slowly waste away in a small room at the nursing home) are very spiritual, and are generally happy. One thing about life is, it is a tragedy, even if you are clean, compassionate, and long lived. Sooner or later, you cease to exist, leaving a space for the next individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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