The Drinking Age

[Reic]

I got caught drinking in my friends dorm room like 2 weeks ago. Have a hearing tomorrow.

That happened to one of my friends roomates a few months ago, she is no longer in school.

Goodluck.

[PokerPacker]

Ya, like those two equal each other. [/u]Drinking is a priviledge[/u], a hobby. Doing your civic duty is apart of being an American.

how is putting something in your body a privilege? shouldn't that be under inherent human right?

[skinsfan07]

That happened to one of my friends roomates a few months ago, she is no longer in school.

Goodluck.

I'll be good. It's happened to some of my other friends at the school and they just make you pay 25-50 bucks and do some community service. Sometimes you don't even have to do that, just pay a small fine, since it's a first time offense.

And my friends who got caught, had weed on them too, and didn't get kicked out.

[BigMike619]

I remember being in Guam the first few months and sitting at a bar with high school kids on their way to the prom. I thought to myself "man thats the **** but my dumb ass would have driven and killed someone". You are way too young at 18 to know the damage you can do; hell youre too young at 21 to even know the real consequences.

[DjTj]

Nobody learns responsibility until they are entrusted with it ... underage drinking becomes this kind of game where kids don't feel responsible for their own actions; they are just trying not to get caught. They are happy to take the punishment when it comes because it's like a badge of honor. Once people turn 21, the game evaporates and only then do people generally learn to drink responsibly.

As to the "old enough to join the Army" argument, I've been proposing for years that military personnel be allowed to drink, regardless of age, on base.

My theory is that if Gomer Pyle wants to knock back a few at the EM club, then he's not going to be driving home, when he leaves.

And if he abuses it, and he's hurting the next day, then I'm certain that Sergeant Carter has an inventive and memorable way of making it clear that soldiers do not have the right to render themselves unfit for duty.

You know, the other place this is generally true is on a college campus. People get drunk in the dorms or at frat houses, and they can stumble home across campus.

If they are really hurting the next day, they'll pay for it in class.

Instead, we have a completely unenforceable law on campuses all over the country where 21-year-old seniors can easily buy alcohol for underclassmen, and a culture develops around the entire mystique of underage drinking.

Colleges then have to spend inordinate amounts of money on security and administrators trying to police their own students, and alcohol becomes their primary disciplinary responsibility instead of things that they should worry about.

I think the drinking age has effectively extended childhood for college students because the increased administration necessary to enforce the law turns college into four years of babysitting. We should lower the age to 18 to lessen the burden on college administrators and allow kids to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

[33]

I remember being in Guam the first few months and sitting at a bar with high school kids on their way to the prom. I thought to myself "man thats the **** but my dumb ass would have driven and killed someone". You are way too young at 18 to know the damage you can do; hell youre too young at 21 to even know the real consequences.

Knowing the damage you can do, and actually not putting yourself in that position are very different things.

There are drunk drivers of all ages. Some of them with people younger than 18 in their car. Hell, when I lived in CA, I was one of a few people I knew who hadn't had a DUI.

(the next part not directed at BM) I've yet to hear a good reason in this thread. Especially when you consider the shear number of countries that have lower drinking ages than we do.

I think there is a common denominator, and it isn't the age limit.

[33]

I think the drinking age has effectively extended childhood for college students because the increased administration necessary to enforce the law turns college into four years of babysitting. We should lower the age to 18 to lessen the burden on college administrators and allow kids to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

QFT

[Special K]

There are. I studied them a couple years ago - I'll see if I can snag some off of Google with a quick search, but you've essentially hit it right on the money. Our drinking age achieves exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to achieve.

It's absolutely stunning that you seem to think they don't already do just that.

Funny how "kids are worse when it comes to drinking" is the exact same argument made when comparing American kids to those in Europe. Ours binge drink at much heavier rate, despite our laws. Perhaps that's because of the way our culture handles alcohol.

Curious, how much of this pattern of behavior do you think is due to the drinking age law in the U.S. and how much of this is due to American cultural influences???????

[33]

Curious, how much of this pattern of behavior do you think is due to the drinking age law in the U.S. and how much of this is due to American cultural influences???????

The culture has no choice but to be influenced by the age laws (it's a state issue IIRC).

We have no idea what our culture would be like after fifty years of different laws.

[Special K]

The culture has no choice but to be influenced by the age laws (it's a state issue IIRC).

We have no idea what our culture would be like after fifty years of different laws.

Wait a minute here, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the legal age of drinking in New Orleans 18? Do we see a higher rate of prudent decision-making amongst kids down there since they should be acclimated to routine alcohol intake?

[33]

Wait a minute here, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the legal age of drinking in New Orleans 18? Do we see a higher rate of prudent decision-making amongst kids down there since they should be acclimated to routine alcohol intake?

You're mistaken. Louisiana changed the law due to Fed pressure. The Feds decided that to get money for roads that all states needed an 18 yo age law.

http://www.wwltv.com/national/stories/wwl022908tpunderage.b4642f1.html

February 29, 2008

John Curran / Associated Press

MONTPELIER, Vt. -- More than two decades after the country established a uniform drinking age of 21, a nascent movement is afoot to allow 18- to 20-year-olds to legally buy alcohol under some circumstances.

[PSUHeckler]

Until I hit a legitimate age and matured - like 18 - I always thought it should be lowered for obvious reasons. But honestly living in a college town especially, I definitely think it should be older if anything. Hell, even people that are of legal age can't act appropriately in public. There I way too many idiots nowadays and kids seem to be going down the wrong path(s) more and more; drugs and sex are becoming a common a not so surprising trend with as young as ELEMENTARY students. Lack of respect as well.

Little devil's advocate here, bu if there would be any exception I would say military 'students', only because if they are given guns and have the possibility of giving their life for our country, well....

[Kosher Ham]

Bounce trying to play psychoanalyst with us...awesome. haha.

Still leave it as is, I was convinced by this thread that... even for soldiers.

Kids being smarter...haha.

[Bounce]

my god can you read :doh: :doh: I KNOW KIDS ARE STILL DRINKING, but my point is if it was legal they would drink even more because of the ease of getting it, i remember nights when i was 17 or 18 we couldn't get beers or something for whatever reason and were all sad about it :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

if we could drink at 18 i would have been wasted every night

you do know just because kids WANT to drink doesn't mean they can always get it, when you are 21 you can

Oh, we're determining this by anecdotes? Okay. When I was underage in college, I was at a party that got busted by the cops about half a dozen times in total. Do you want to know what happened each and every time? The cops spent about an hour and a half of their taxpayer-funded time sorting through the partygoers, arresting exactly 0 (zero) people, eliminating exactly 0 (zero) underage drinkers, and eventually just told everyone to go home. And each and every time, we literally walked next door and picked up new beverages to illegally drink.

Does my anecdote beat yours, or do we need more anecdotes to determine a winner?

[PSUHeckler]

how is putting something in your body a privilege? shouldn't that be under inherent human right?

Not when it can increase your chances of harming another individual. I understand why you would want as you're 18, but in the next few years and experiencing college I think you may have a different view - I know I have (read post above). While I guarantee their are some more deserving and responsible 18 years compared to some (dumbass) 21+ year olds, there is much maturing that occurs within those years. I use myself as an example.

[Special K]

Oh, we're determining this by anecdotes? Okay. When I was underage in college, I was at a party that got busted by the cops about half a dozen times in total. Do you want to know what happened each and every time? The cops spent about an hour and a half of their taxpayer-funded time sorting through the partygoers, arresting exactly 0 (zero) people, eliminating exactly 0 (zero) underage drinkers, and eventually just told everyone to go home. And each and every time, we literally walked next door and picked up new beverages to illegally drink.

Does my anecdote beat yours, or do we need more anecdotes to determine a winner?

Well you got lucky. In college our cops handed out MIP's to the obnoxious drunks...with proceeds of the fines more than making up for that "lost" taxpayer money.

[909997]

to be fair when a 18 year old goes to war he or she can most likely drink in that country.

[33]

Not when it can increase your chances of harming another individual. I understand why you would want as you're 18, but in the next few years and experiencing college I think you may have a different view - I know I have (read post above). While I guarantee their are some more deserving and responsible 18 years compared to some (dumbass) 21+ year olds, there is much maturing that occurs within those years. I use myself as an example.

There is also the question of whether parents would do a better job of helping in the maturation process of their children if they knew that at 18 they could actually act fully as an adult.

Currently, as Dj put forth quite well, college age kids are not treated or expected to act as adults. Maybe it's time that changes.

[Kosher Ham]

to be fair when a 18 year old goes to war he or she can most likely drink in that country.

And that is what convinced me.

[Special K]

You're mistaken. Louisiana changed the law due to Fed pressure. The Feds decided that to get money for roads that all states needed an 18 yo age law.

http://www.wwltv.com/national/stories/wwl022908tpunderage.b4642f1.html

Okay, thanks for letting me know

However...I did find an interesting quote from the article you provided. The quote essentially backed the notion that an INCREASED drinking age DOES cut down on alcohol-related injuries and fatalities.

Vermont voted to raise the age in 1985, and in the ensuing 20 years, alcohol-related traffic fatalities dropped by 40 percent, according to Vermont State Police.

[PSUHeckler]

Oh, we're determining this by anecdotes? Okay. When I was underage in college, I was at a party that got busted by the cops about half a dozen times in total. Do you want to know what happened each and every time? The cops spent about an hour and a half of their taxpayer-funded time sorting through the partygoers, arresting exactly 0 (zero) people, eliminating exactly 0 (zero) underage drinkers, and eventually just told everyone to go home. And each and every time, we literally walked next door and picked up new beverages to illegally drink.

Does my anecdote beat yours, or do we need more anecdotes to determine a winner?

I'm actually surprised to hear that. Penn State will almost always cite you, give you a hearing (nothing serious), and give you a fine. Will it STOP underage drinking, prolly not. But deter people for buying for minors and making it more difficult for their underage friends to get booze, absolutely. For every minor you supply alcohol to it's something like $2,000 for the first person, and like $1,000 for each after. And I do have friends that have friends that can attest that these incidents do happen.

[PSUHeckler]

There is also the question of whether parents would do a better job of helping in the maturation process of their children if they knew that at 18 they could actually act fully as an adult.

Currently, as Dj put forth quite well, college age kids are not treated or expected to act as adults. Maybe it's time that changes.

That's a very good point, and I think parenting has got worse over the years. From my experience, college kids here are treated as adults, but aren't expected (which is a problem), but things can differ place to place.

[Skinsfan1311]

I have been drinking since 16, never had a problem getting alcohol if I provided people the money to get it for them. I go out a buy alcohol all the time for my friends and to supply my parties.

If no one gets stupid at my house and gets home safe, I'm down.

Here's a little food for thought.

What if you supplied the alcohol to an underage friend and they don't get home safely?

[twa]

Here's a little food for thought.

What if you supplied the alcohol to an underage friend and they don't get home safely?

Not much different than supplying it to a over 21 yr old and they don't make it home(aside from more legal liability)

You provide it to anyone legal or no and you are liable

[Henry]

It seems that the proponents of lowering the age have two arguements:

1) Kids will drink anyway and

2) Other countries with lower drinking ages have fewer drinking kids

My answer to the first argument is, so? Kids do a lot of incredibly stupid things. That doesn't mean we should suddenly make them all legal.

To the second point, let's not jump to conclusions here. You are looking at one piece of the puzzle and presenting it as the entire picture. American culture is different than European culture in more ways than just drinking age. Gun ownership laws are more lax here than in Europe, does that mean we have fewer gun-related fatalities? Lower crime?

No. Because there's more involved than just the laws.

What might be more relevant is comparing American drinking before 1984 and after 1984, when the drinking age was raised. I know the rate of drunk-driving related fatalities has halved since 1982 in this country. I think if half as many kids are dying on the streets then maybe we should keep the age at 21. But if any of you pro-kid-drinkers have some useful data to add, feel free.

I'm open to the idea of lowering the age, but you've got to do better than comparing us to Ireland.