Peter King and I agree

[RDSKNfaithfull]

The thing is Dallas isn't going to draft a QB so why would would a team be hard pressed to jump in front of them? Heck somebody can wait and trade with Dallas for their second pick to jump ahead of San Fran all the way back at 29.

[TomE]

This has been talked about..... please do not believe that you or Peter King are original in thinking we hold a valuable pick at 21...... It has been discussed over and over again......

Heh, yeah it's pretty hard to pin down that "original" thought amongst the tens of thousands of free thinkers focused on a narrow topic ain't it? :laugh:

Still doesn't keep folks from making claim tho'

[Larry]

Just pointing out that last year, everybody here wanted us to trade down. And all of the trade-down scenarios featured one of three players falling out of the top 5, making it to us, and us holding an auction from several bidders who wanted one of these three, top-5 stars.

All three of the stars we were discussing fell to us.

And we didn't get an offer. (At least, not one that was good enough.)

(And, IIR, all three of the people we were praying would fall from the top 5 and make it to us, fell completely out of the first round.)

Trading down is nice. I'm almost always in favor of it, myself.

But it only happens if you get the right offer. And the right offer seems to be a lot rarer than a lot of folks round here (including me) want it to be.

[Peregrine]

Just think of the possibilities. 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds? We could grab a WR, CB, and three linemen on the defensive and offensive sides. All 5 potential future starters. Thats 1/4th of all the starting positions in one draft. Whether we can actually evaluate talent is up for debate, but the potential is there.

[JimmyConway]

We should help our own cause and bring some QBs in like Flacco and Henne (if he already hasn't planned a visit).

[chaddukes]

PK is talking about QB's, but that isn't the only reason why someone would trade up. There are other players who may fall out of the top ten or fifteen that someone in the lower 20's might really want. For example, if Leodis McKelvin (the top CB prospect) were to somehow drop (unlikely) then that Jag's who still need help at CB, and know that Dallas does as well might be inclined to jump ahead of them. Thats just one position but the same thing could happen with any player. It's not just QB's.

[red beans]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/08/mailbag/index.html

This is exactly what I had said in my post about a week ago, and no one was on the same page. I feel like @ 21 we hold a very big pick with a group of teams i.e Atlanta, that may want to jump on a QB like Henne, Brohm, or Flacco. If we can grab a teams pair of 2nd rounders that would be the best possible out come for this draft. With 3 second rounders and 2 thirds we can fill alot of holes.

I read that too, but after looking at who's drafting after us with picks 22-31, there's not a team that will take a QB. There is only one way I see Atlanta being willing to trade 2nd and 3rd round picks to us: Is if Miami and St. Louis take both Long's and then Atlanta takes Glenn Dorsey with their 1st round pick, then Kansas City or Baltimore takes Matt Ryan. Then I could see Atlanta being willing to trade up and take our #21 pick to take the QB they want, Brian Brohm or Joe Flacco. The reason they would want to trade up is if they think Miami is going to take a QB with their 2nd round pick, #32. If Atlanta thinks that is going to happen then I can see them trading up to take the QB of their choice. However, if Atlanta takes Matt Ryan with the #3 pick then this idea is most likely down the drain, the only other team I could possibly see trading up is Baltimore, and that's a stretch at best.

And it's because of that, why would any of those teams mentioned like Atlanta, trade up from having the overall #2 pick in the 2nd round, when all they have to do is stasnd pat and wait for the QB to free fall to them? I've seen most mock drafts that show mainly one QB (Ryan) taken in the 1st round, a few of them showed two (Ryan and Brohm). There is not muhc of a premium for QBs in this draft.

And besides, if a team wanted to trade up from out of the second, they could trade with teams #22-#31, and pay less. Trading up from the second round to the overall #22 would cost less than trading up from the same spot in the 2nd round to the #21 overall pick.

[red beans]

I read that too, but after looking at who's drafting after us with picks 22-31, there's not a team that will take a QB. There is only one way I see Atlanta being willing to trade 2nd and 3rd round picks to us: Is if Miami and St. Louis take both Long's and then Atlanta takes Glenn Dorsey with their 1st round pick, then Kansas City or Baltimore takes Matt Ryan. Then I could see Atlanta being willing to trade up and take our #21 pick to take the QB they want, Brian Brohm or Joe Flacco. The reason they would want to trade up is if they think Miami is going to take a QB with their 2nd round pick, #32. If Atlanta thinks that is going to happen then I can see them trading up to take the QB of their choice. However, if Atlanta takes Matt Ryan with the #3 pick then this idea is most likely down the drain, the only other team I could possibly see trading up is Baltimore, and that's a stretch at best.

But Atlanta wouldn't need to do this. With pick #34, Brohm and/or Flacco would be there for them. In terms of a QB, no team that desires one have need to move up for one.

[Ernie5]

Wow -- I agree with Peter King AND you? Joking.

Surry, as they say in Ontario.

[HigSkin]

Might explain why Henne is scheduled for a visit. Let the deception begin.

[bushwack]

But Atlanta wouldn't need to do this. With pick #34, Brohm and/or Flacco would be there for them. In terms of a QB, no team that desires one have need to move up for one.

The only possibility is if Atlanta finds out that Miami is looking at drafting Brohm with the 32nd pick and Atlanta really wants him, so they'll move up to get him. Also there could be another player at another position another team covets and thinks is going to be taken by one of the teams that pick after us and want to trade up to get him.

[morpheusmeyers]

Could you imagine what we could do with 3 2nds and 2 3rds...

2) James Hardy, WR

2b) Dre Moore/Trevor Laws, DT

2c) T. Porter/J. King, CB

3) R. Schuenberg/S. Justice, OG/C

3b) B. Johnston/K. Langford, DE

Of course there's no guarantee that these guy would be there when we pick, or that Atlanta would even offer us 2 2nds to trade up to #21, but if it happened we could really set ourselves up for the future.

[moviedude25]

I'd take one of Atlanta's 2nds and there 1st next year for our 1st in a heartbeat

[skinsince72]

I'd take one of Atlanta's 2nds and there 1st next year for our 1st in a heartbeat

Is that a possibility? Or, are you joking because i was thinking the same thing. 2 first rounders next year plus a couple of 2nd round and 3rd picks this year doesn't look like a bad thing. Plus, Atlanta might not do much again this season and we may end up w/ their 1st pick next year in the top ten. Then, you can go after a man beast or trade next years high 1st round selection 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks.

[Thoth]

NO ONE is trading two 2nd round picks for the #21 this year.

I think we could deal the pick if we were willing to sacrifice some value, and I think if Albert is gone, we should think about it. I would prefer to get a number of picks rather than just 2--something like a 2nd, 4th this year, and some pick next year.

My choice in the 2nd round is Calais Campbell. I take the potential and natural size--extremely rare for a DE.

[Thoth]

Is that a possibility? Or, are you joking because i was thinking the same thing. 2 first rounders next year plus a couple of 2nd round and 3rd picks this year doesn't look like a bad thing. Plus, Atlanta might not do much again this season and we may end up w/ their 1st pick next year in the top ten. Then, you can go after a man beast or trade next years high 1st round selection 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks.

Yeah, an ex-Patriot GM inheriting a team he knows sucks is going to trade a certain top-10 pick and a 2nd rounder for a low 1st. Puh-lease.

The wishful thinking 'round here is just stupefying.

[texasthunder]

It would be nice if someone wanted to trade up to get Brohm.

However, none of the teams below us in the 1st round (DAL, JAC, PIT, TEN, SEA, SD, SF, GB, NYG) have need for a quarterback... QUOTE]

Unless one of those teams gets an offer from Atlanta to make a trade. Lets say Jacksonville, who is interested in somebody on the Atlanta team, they draft the QB and make a trade. Then Atlanta doesnt give up their 2nd and 3rd round picks, like we hope. Just a possability.

[morpheusmeyers]

Yeah, an ex-Patriot GM inheriting a team he knows sucks is going to trade a certain top-10 pick and a 2nd rounder for a low 1st. Puh-lease.

The wishful thinking 'round here is just stupefying.

My choice in the 2nd round is Calais Campbell. I take the potential and natural size--extremely rare for a DE.

What's more wishful thinking...

Atlanta trading two 2nds for the #21 pick, or Calais Campbell being there for us with our pick in the 2nd? It's a close call.

[worstSeat]

My fear is that even if the Redskins trade down, they will do what they almost ALWAYS do next -- trade up in a lower round. When we got all of Ditka's picks for Ricky Williams, we traded a bunch of them back to get down to pick Champ Bailey (obviously a good pick), we also traded up to get Cooley, Jason Campbell, and Rocky. I prefer trading down and then just simply taking the BPA.

Whoa, "thinker," you don't want to trade up later because the Skins got...

Bailey

Cooley

Campbell

McIntosh

Huh??!!! Yeah, heaven forbid players like that get added to the roster.

[Veretax]

I beg to Differ, San Fran is rumored to be miffed at Alex Smith right now.

[red beans]

The only possibility is if Atlanta finds out that Miami is looking at drafting Brohm with the 32nd pick and Atlanta really wants him, so they'll move up to get him. Also there could be another player at another position another team covets and thinks is going to be taken by one of the teams that pick after us and want to trade up to get him.

I understand that but they wouldn't have to move so far to the #21 spot to get him. Why can't they simply move up to the #31 spot that the Giants hold and preempt the Dolphins is what I am saying. They'd have to give up far less to the Giants to make such a move than they would to the Redskins is all I am saying.

What I'm saying is that it wouldn't make sense for the Falcons to jump up 11 spots to get a QB, when (1) they can either stand pat and wait for him, OR (2) simply7 move up no more than 3 spots.

Let me ask you, if the Redskins were in the same exact situation as the Falcons and they were looking at the two-named QBs, would you want them to jump to the #21 spot OR stand pat if possible, but if not only move up a couple of slots?

I don't understand King, because how much differnt is it to move up to #20 than #21? If they could/would move up to #21, why not simply move up a bit higher?

[red beans]

I'd take one of Atlanta's 2nds and there 1st next year for our 1st in a heartbeat

Is that a possibility? Or, are you joking because i was thinking the same thing. 2 first rounders next year plus a couple of 2nd round and 3rd picks this year doesn't look like a bad thing. Plus, Atlanta might not do much again this season and we may end up w/ their 1st pick next year in the top ten. Then, you can go after a man beast or trade next years high 1st round selection 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks.

Looking to do what the Cowboys did last year with the Browns? Problem is, the Chiefs had the pick right behind the Cowboys and were certain to pick up Quinn. No such scenario exists this time around. There is no one immediately behind the Redskins that is looking at a QB.

Besides the moving up math is wrong.

Here is a draft value chart for you both.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

The Falcons' 2nd rounder is worth 550 points. If they were to win the Super Bowl next year---grossly doubtful, that 1st round pick would be worth 590 points.

The Redskins' #21 pick is worth 800 points.

So if the Falcons were to give up their next year's 1st and this year's 2nd, the point total would be 1140 points---that'd be the minimum, to the Redskins' 800 points.

Why would they do something like that to move up and get a QB, that more than likely would be there for them any, when at least all the had to do is trade with the Giants and give the Giants an additional 4th round draft pick in terms of the value chart?

[red beans]

NO ONE is trading two 2nd round picks for the #21 this year.

I think we could deal the pick if we were willing to sacrifice some value, and I think if Albert is gone, we should think about it. I would prefer to get a number of picks rather than just 2--something like a 2nd, 4th this year, and some pick next year.

My choice in the 2nd round is Calais Campbell. I take the potential and natural size--extremely rare for a DE.

Campbell won't be there by time the Redskins pick in the 2nd round. He's rumored to be a mid to late 1st rounder anyway. But if by chance he does slip out of the 1st round, he won't fall far into the 2nd.

[SkinsSyco4Life]

I understand that but they wouldn't have to move so far to the #21 spot to get him. Why can't they simply move up to the #31 spot that the Giants hold and preempt the Dolphins is what I am saying. They'd have to give up far less to the Giants to make such a move than they would to the Redskins is all I am saying.

What I'm saying is that it wouldn't make sense for the Falcons to jump up 11 spots to get a QB, when (1) they can either stand pat and wait for him, OR (2) simply7 move up no more than 3 spots.

Let me ask you, if the Redskins were in the same exact situation as the Falcons and they were looking at the two-named QBs, would you want them to jump to the #21 spot OR stand pat if possible, but if not only move up a couple of slots?

I don't understand King, because how much different is it to move up to #20 than #21? If they could/would move up to #21, why not simply move up a bit higher?

Depending on who teams such as Atlanta,Kansas City and Baltimore draft with their 1st round selections will effect whether or not one of these three along with San Fran #29 and Miami #32 reaches to get the QB they want. That is why Peter King suggests this trade scenario. I think we would improve our chances by trading down to #25 or #26 so as to make it less of reach, but I still think one of these teams will get nervous enough to come up to #21.:2cents:

[red beans]

Depending on who teams such as Atlanta,Kansas City and Baltimore draft with their 1st round selections will effect whether or not one of these three along with San Fran #29 and Miami #32 reaches to get the QB they want. That is why Peter King suggests this trade scenario. I think we would improve our chances by trading down to #25 or #26 so as to make it less of reach, but I still think one of these teams will get nervous enough to come up to #21.:2cents:

Wishful thinking.

If Atlanta drafts a QB then the whole thing is moot. THe 49er's are not going after a QB. They have not enough time but too much money invested in Smith. Once again, no mocks have I seen have more than two QBs being drafted. Most only have one with Ryan, and they have him going back and forth between KC and Atlanta.

And the thing is, I keep asking is that what makes the #21 pick so special other than because the Redskins' hold it? When they have picks #22 through 31 that are of better value.