Report: Non-Muslims Deserve to Be Punished

[jpyaks3]

You say I am wrong but then turn around in the first paragraph and prove Im right. The thread is on MUSLIMS, not Irish. So that just helps to prove my point.

Just because a cop carries a machine gun doesnt really mean anything about terrorism. Most foreign countries that I have been to are the same way and it seems like the US is the exception.

You really shouldnt try to convince me that France can protect themselves. History has shown different and I dont really see them being able to do anything if Al Qaeda decides to turn their full attention to them. This may be speculation but past history has shown that France isnt really a military minded country in the least bit.

So since Europe has been dealing with terrorism much longer and more extensively then the United States has then they have no experience because they have only been attacked by other terrorists? Whats so special about Muslim terrorists?

[dwbiggs]

Naziism with a religious twist.

[wyominghansen]

Sorry that this post is so long but...

Instructions to Muslims about Unbelievers

Koran 9:29

Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.

So here Prophet Mohammed is instructing a true Muslim to fight people of other religions until the unbelievers debase themselves and pay tax for their existence. So the greatness of Islam is revealed only when follwers of other religions are humiliated.

Koran 8:12

Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

Here Mohammed is giving step by step instruction on how to torture and kill Kafirs if they don't follow Islam.

Koran 9:5

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

In the above verse Prophet Mohammed is clearly instructing his followers to kill the idolators in any brutal way possible until the idolators submit themselves to Islam. Allah is indeed merciful !!

Koran 9:73

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

Here Mohammed is trying to justify his brutal acts. He conveniently claims divine justification for the expression of his hatred by saying Allah himself revealed to him personally that people of other religions are evil and belong in Hell. Therefore, according to Mohammed any barbaric act against the unbelievers is completely justified.

Koran 4:144

Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?

This verse clearly states that a Muslim can only befreind a Muslim. Mohammed in order to ensure that his followers will not befriend and get influenced by people of other religions, revealed this verse. This verse illustrates that if a Muslim befriends a Non-Muslim than the wrath of Allah will be on him. Therefore in Islam, people of other religions should be treated with contempt,disrespect and cruelty.

Koran 47:4

When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

In the above verse, Mohammed is giving detailed instruction about how to maim and torture unbelievers in Jihad. And finally when the Muslims are satisfied enough after torturing and maiming the unbelievers, they should proceed to demand ransom for the captives. All for the sake for all-merciful Allah !!

Koran 5:33-34

The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, merciful.

In this verse, Mohammed devises another recipe for torturing unbelievers. This particular recipe involves chopping off alternate limbs and expelling the Kafirs (people following other religions) out of the land.

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/hell.html

[BigMike619]

So since Europe has been dealing with terrorism much longer and more extensively then the United States has then they have no experience because they have only been attacked by other terrorists? Whats so special about Muslim terrorists?

Honestly I dont think they have been but I was just making the point to him that MY point was that they havent been dealing with Muslim points. America has been dealing with "uprisings", "cults", "factions" and other things for a very long time. And I dont see too much IRA fighting going on in gay Pari.

While I wont minimize the problems that Europe has dealt with, I think we can all agree that the days of moltov ****tails and lobbing a single grenade are over and these guys are now trained to do alot more. And the dedication that this new breed of terrorists have is alot stronger in my opinion the the Catholics of the IRA. Once again, nothing against the IRA, but Al Qaeda will go to alot greater lengths to terrorize.

[alexey]

You really shouldnt try to convince me that France can protect themselves. History has shown different and I dont really see them being able to do anything if Al Qaeda decides to turn their full attention to them. This may be speculation but past history has shown that France isnt really a military minded country in the least bit.

By "past history" you are probably referring specifically to WWII. You may get a different picture if you look at other points in history.

[BigMike619]

By "past history" you are probably referring specifically to WWII. You may get a different picture if you look at other points in history.

OK, Im open to this. Tell me one good example of France showing any military power. Show me how France has defended itself or stepped in when there is a threat to the world please.

I am being serious here and not a smart ass.

[alexey]

OK, Im open to this. Tell me one good example of France showing any military power. Show me how France has defended itself or stepped in when there is a threat to the world please.

I am being serious here and not a smart ass.

If memory serves me right there was this guy called Napoleon... i think he did some military stuff here and there...

[BigMike619]

If memory serves me right there was this guy called Napoleon... i think he did some military stuff here and there...

Napoleon also became notorious for his effort to suppress the slave revolt in Haiti and his 1801 decision to re-establish slavery in France after it was banned following the revolution

I dont think thats what you meant but Napoleon wasnt that great of a leader. He had about 10 good years of reign and considering how long they have been losing, thats not a good average.

[alexey]

Napoleon also became notorious for his effort to suppress the slave revolt in Haiti and his 1801 decision to re-establishslavery in France after it was banned following the revolution

I dont think thats what you meant but Napoleon wasnt that great of a leader. He had about 10 good years of reign and considering how long they have been losing, thats not a good average.

I believe you asked me for an example of France showing military power.

[BigMike619]

I believe you asked me for an example of France showing military power.

I know, and you came up with something that was almost 200 years ago. I just figured I would go along with the joke and show you how Napoleon wasnt that great anyways.

[techboy]

BigMike619, no offense, but it is quite apparent that you have no clue what Europe has had to deal with, long before Islam was the terroristic flavor of the month, and I'm not talking about "molotov ****tails" or "single grenades".

Ever heard of Carlos the Jackal? How about this article in the New York Times...Carlos the Jackal to Be Tried for Role in 4 Bombing Attacks in ’80s

The cold-war-era terrorist known as Carlos the Jackal, already serving a life sentence, will be tried in connection with four bombing attacks that killed 11 people and wounded almost 200 in France in 1982 and 1983.

Ever hear of the ETA? ETA Bomb Injures 43 in Spain

ETA is blamed for more than 800 deaths since the late 1960s in a campaign of bombings and shootings aimed at creating an independent Basque homeland in land straddling northern Spain and southwest France. Its political wing, Batasuna, was outlawed in 2003.

How about the Kurdistan Worker's Party? From the State Department:

Activities: Primary targets are Turkish Government security forces in Turkey but also has been active in Western Europe against Turkish targets. Conducted attacks on Turkish diplomatic and commercial facilities in dozens of West European cities in 1993 and again in spring 1995. In an attempt to damage Turkey's tourist industry, the PKK has bombed tourist sites and hotels and kidnapped foreign tourists.

How about 17 November?

Activities: Initial attacks were assassinations of senior US officials and Greek public figures. Added bombings in 1980s. Since 1990 has expanded targets to include EU facilities and foreign firms investing in Greece and has added improvised rocket attacks to its methods.

Or the Revolutionary People's Liberation Party?

Activities: Since the late 1980s has concentrated attacks against current and retired Turkish security and military officials. Began a new campaign against foreign interests in 1990. Assassinated two US military contractors and wounded a US Air Force officer to protest the Gulf war. Launched rockets at US Consulate in Istanbul in 1992. Assassinated prominent Turkish businessman in early 1996, its first significant terrorist act as DHKP/C.

Or the ELA?

Activities: Since 1974 has conducted bombings against Greek Government and economic targets as well as US military and business facilities. In 1986 stepped up attacks on Greek Government and commercial interests. Raid on a safehouse in 1990 revealed a weapons cache and direct contacts with other Greek terrorist groups, including 1 May and Revolutionary Solidarity. In 1991, ELA and 1 May claimed joint responsibility for over 20 bombings. Greek police believe they have established a link between the ELA and the Revolutionary Organization 17 November.

As you can see from this partial listing, European countries have been dealing with serious terrorism issues since at least the 1970s. We are late to the party.

Here's what the EU has to say about it.

Terrorism is a threat to all States and to all peoples. It poses a serious threat to our security, to the values of our democratic societies and to the rights and freedoms of the citizens, especially through the indiscriminate targeting of innocent people. Terrorism is criminal and unjustifiable under any circumstances.

Terrorism is not a new phenomenon in Europe. In Britain, Ireland and Spain alone, thousands of lives have been lost to terrorism over the past thirty years. This experience has taught us that the only way to defeat terrorism is to confront it.

I think this says it well:

There is no doubt that terrorism poses a real challenge to both the world as a whole and to Europe in particular. Some countries in Europe have been waging war with terrorism for decades and they have learned some hard lessons in the process. The biggest of these is that there are no quick victories to be gained and that multinational cooperation is what is needed most when fighting international terrorism.

[RocketCitySkins]

Instructions to Muslims about Unbelievers[/Quote]

You know a lot about this. In a class I took several years ago I seem to remember a verse in the Koran that tells Muslims to "kill the children of the book." The book being the Bible. But now I can't find this verse. Possibly it was in some of Mohammed's other writing and not the Koran. Does this sound familiar?

In the course I took, we were told that Mohammed's writing in the earlier part of the Koran are more peaceful. But as he grew older and begin to conquer more and more countries his writing became a lot more violent. According to our class there are groups of Muslims who believe more in line with the peaceful first part of the Koran. It's almost like an Old and New Testament. But even these Muslims are afraid to speak out because they are seen as not true Muslim's by the more militant groups.

[BigMike619]

Oh wow...I guess you have proved me wrong huh. You have listed several examples of EUROPE and I guess I have nothing for America huh.

Wow, Carlos injured 200 people? 800 more? dozens more? 2 more? thats almost half of 9/11. Thats just crazy and to think I called it like I did. I mean, since the 70s they have had almost 2000 people killed by terrorists. WOW!!

"As you can see from this partial listing, European countries have been dealing with serious terrorism issues since at least the 1970s. We are late to the party."

Ever hear of Pearl Harbor dude? Yeah, that's terrorism.

[Koolblue13]

Mike, you use the term "freedom fries" don't you?

[BigMike619]

Mike, you use the term "freedom fries" don't you?

and freedom dressing

and freedom kissing

and freedom pastries.

:laugh:

I dont hate french people dude, but I hate governments that denounce us for one thing but will turn around and ask us for help when their backs are against the wall.

:2cents:

[techboy]

Oh wow...I guess you have proved me wrong huh.

Yeah, pretty much.

Seriously, it was your assertion that when Europe gets "terrorized", they'll come running to the U.S. for help. All I'm pointing out is that they've been "terrorized" for years, by a variety of groups, so this is nothing new for them. Not even in scope, which you attempted to assert was on the level of "single grenades and molotov ****tails", but clearly was not.

I'm not even sure what the rest of your post was all about, or what Pearly Harbor has to do with anything, but I'm confident that I made my point adequately, so if you'd like to continue believing that Europe is comprised of a bunch of pansies that will wilt and run screaming for help when a capgun goes off, please, feel free.

P.S. In terms of the French and their military backbone, I think I'd point to the resistance fighters of WW II.

[Henry]

Mike, you're all over the place here. This is what you first said:

watch all of these Euro countries come running and asking us for help once they start getting terrorized.

Now read your last post.

Your claim that Europe has not had to deal with terrorism is ill informed. Changing your point now to mean terrorism only counts when thousands are killed at a time rings very hollow ... based on that argument Israel has never had to deal with a terrorist attack. Based on that argument we have never had to deal with a terrorist attack against us in Iraq.

Also, I'm no big fan of France. But if you are going to claim they can't fight for themselves, you'd better come up with an example closer to the present than 1940. Otherwise you may want to re-think some of your views on race relations in this country, as you often dismiss events that occurred that long ago as totally irrelevant.

[headexplode]

Just 2000 dead since the seventies? And they weren't even Americans? Who gives a ****? Hey, 9/11 and Pearl Harbor, dude. 9/11 and Pearl ****ing Harbor.

I mean, who in Europe was terrorized more than the United States in the '30s and '40s? No one.

[BigMike619]

Once they start getting terrorized is exactly what I said. I am NOT all over the place. I know what I am saying; maybe I should just break it down a little bit more for you.

I am saying that they have not dealt with MUSLIM terrorism (because that is what this thread is about) on the same level that we are dealing with it. We are NOT new to the terrorism game and we have been dealing with it as long as other countries have been.

I was stating the thousands that we have had killed in TWO seperate occassions because he was acting like Carlos the Hacker was something special to deal with when Osama binLaden has singlehandedly orchestrated the deaths of thousands of Americans in 3 seperate incidents. USS Cole killed 19 in itself.

[alexey]

I can totally see Europeans signing up with our terrorism-fighting program and asking us to start a war somewhere "over there" to make them safer

[BigMike619]

I can totally see Europeans signing up with our terrorism-fighting program and asking us to start a war somewhere "over there" to make them safer

I dont care if you think I am off base or not bro, France can not defend itself. And those neighboring countries are NOT going to want it spreading into their cities and streets. They will be trying to get the UN to help protect them. And we all know who the UN mainly consists of.

[alexey]

I dont care if you think I am off base or not bro, France can not defend itself. And those neighboring countries are NOT going to want it spreading into their cities and streets. They will be trying to get the UN to help protect them. And we all know who the UN mainly consists of.

I will agree with everything just dont taze me bro.

[BigMike619]

I will agree with everything just dont taze me bro.

I like you, which is why I will taze you last.

[techboy]

Well, here's an interesting test case. On March 11, 2004, terrorists sympathetic to (and possibly part of) Al Queda bombed trains in Madrid killing 191 and wounding 1755. Did the Spanish:

A. Come running to the U.S. for help

or

B. Throw the pro-U.S. government out of power over their handling of the case, and elect a government that ran on the platform of pulling out of Iraq, and generally disassociating itself from the U.S.' actions in the Middle East?

[sjinhan]

few people really do ruin it for everyone else...

Its like interviewing bunch of Scientology people in the USA and then posting all that nonsense around the media around the world and display of American position.