Bear-Stearns

[portisizzle]

Those people were simply playing the game. .

Everyone plays the game.

Business are in business to deliver products and services (you call them games) that consumers desire.

That being said everyone is at fault. Mortgages ARE risky. For anyone and everyone. Bottom line.

[SkinsOrlando]

Those aren't who is to blame. Those people were simply playing the game. The game is what is to be blamed.

Whoa, so people who signed for something knowing they couldnt afford have no personal responsibility for whats occuring???? Isn't that the same as saying that the crack addict is not at fault for smoking crack but the dealer is because he made it available?

[frommd]

Whoa, so people who signed for something knowing they couldnt afford have no personal responsibility for whats occuring???? Isn't that the same as saying that the crack addict is not at fault for smoking crack but the dealer is because he made it available?

A little bit different. Kind of a cross between what you said and if you go to the doctor and he prescribes crack and you get addicted. I think the banks are just as culpable in giving out all this money as then people who took it.

[GibbsFactor]

Whoa, so people who signed for something knowing they couldnt afford have no personal responsibility for whats occuring???? Isn't that the same as saying that the crack addict is not at fault for smoking crack but the dealer is because he made it available?

Of course they do. They should lose their homes just as these companies and banks should fold. Then we can think about playing another game.

But to simply put the blame on players is foolish. They played with the cards dealt.

[iheartskins]

Why should you care about the collapse of Bear Stearns?

Well, because it's symptomatic of the potential collapse of other banks.

Google news on Lehman Brothers and all of the pressure they are under.

If investment banks go out of business it's bad for all of us.

The commercial paper market and other interbanking lending obligations and tremendously important in how our current international banking system functions.

Everytime another bank fails, banks become more conservative with lending their assets. As that happens, credit dries up.

If credit dries up, economic expansion can slow dramatically.

That's a very short version of why you should care.

[Mark The Homer]

Those aren't who is to blame. Those people were simply playing the game. The game is what is to be blamed.

Everyone plays the game.

Business are in business to deliver products and services (you call them games) that consumers desire.

That being said everyone is at fault. Mortgages ARE risky. For anyone and everyone. Bottom line.

Whoa, so people who signed for something knowing they couldnt afford have no personal responsibility for whats occuring????

I agree with SkinsOrlando. To use an analogy, what about the edit: interest only loans? Was that some crazy ****? Is that the fault of the game? Would you take out a interest only loan? To me, it just seemed crazy. A interest only real estate loan isn't a loan, it's a bet. The people who willingly took out those loans placed a bet. That is not financially responsible, unless you have money to burn. Yes, the game is partly to fault, but to say the people who took out the loans are faultless is not accurate, IMO.

[zoony]

Why should you care about the collapse of Bear Stearns?

Well, because it's symptomatic of the potential collapse of other banks.

Google news on Lehman Brothers and all of the pressure they are under.

If investment banks go out of business it's bad for all of us.

The commercial paper market and other interbanking lending obligations and tremendously important in how our current international banking system functions.

Everytime another bank fails, banks become more conservative with lending their assets. As that happens, credit dries up.

If credit dries up, economic expansion can slow dramatically.

That's a very short version of why you should care.

Great post S. It reminds me of the joke... "If you owe $5000 to a bank, you're a debtor. If you owe $50,000,000, you're a partner"

Of course, I hope none of this gets in the way of "corporate welfare" talking points and Bush/Republicans are the debil. Carry on.

........

[GibbsFactor]

Why should you care about the collapse of Bear Stearns?

Well, because it's symptomatic of the potential collapse of other banks.

Google news on Lehman Brothers and all of the pressure they are under.

If investment banks go out of business it's bad for all of us.

The commercial paper market and other interbanking lending obligations and tremendously important in how our current international banking system functions.

Everytime another bank fails, banks become more conservative with lending their assets. As that happens, credit dries up.

If credit dries up, economic expansion can slow dramatically.

That's a very short version of why you should care.

To speak frankly, we are screwed either way. Even if we continued to bail these guys out we keep devaluating the dollar which has a ripple effect. Sure it means we can export more goods, the problem with that is that our economy isn't currently set up for that. We are a service economy now and have been for some time.

Add to that... If we make these mortgage lenders honor a longer rate before adjustment, they get screwed. If the bank was expecting 7% but they are now forced to take 4%, they will still tighten up lending.

Either way, credit seems to be a thing of the past. Problem with that is, our entire economy is credit driven.

[zoony]

Those aren't who is to blame. Those people were simply playing the game. The game is what is to be blamed.

And I think with a mult-billion dollar bailout, you're going to see some fairly pointed questions asked by Congress. I think we can expect legislation to be passed so that we can avoid this type of thing in the future. Similar to what happened in the 1930's and with the SNL crisis.

So I think those screaming for blood will get it, though probably not to the extent they might like (public execution)

It looks like Congress will have to put the "he cheated at baseball" investigation on hold for a while :laugh:

[zoony]

Sure it means we can export more goods, the problem with that is that our economy isn't currently set up for that. We are a service economy now and have been for some time.

If American Manufacturing were its own country, it would be the world's 8th largest economy.

....

[stoshuaj]

thanks for what seem to be fairly balanced and reasoned responses.

I still don't "get it" per se but I'm admittedly ignorant to big finance.

People say that this is indicative of being in a recession. OK, but is being in a recession synonymous with people and business not having an expectation that non-sensical investments will at some point have a negative ramification? I'm not sure how that's "recession" moreso than a correction to common-sense.

[frommd]

It looks like Congress will have to put the "he cheated at baseball" investigation on hold for a while :laugh:

Congress is (sadly for us) such a joke.

[daveakl]

If American Manufacturing were its own country, it would be the world's 8th largest economy.

....

Ironic also how more foreign countries will come here to manufacture their goods as the dollar drops.

[GibbsFactor]

thanks for what seem to be fairly balanced and reasoned responses.

I still don't "get it" per se but I'm admittedly ignorant to big finance.

People say that this is indicative of being in a recession. OK, but is being in a recession synonymous with people and business not having an expectation that non-sensical investments will at some point have a negative ramification? I'm not sure how that's "recession" moreso than a correction to common-sense.

If we are just in a recession, then we are good to go. :2cents:

[zoony]

Ironic also how more foreign countries will come here to manufacture their goods as the dollar drops.

That is absolutely among other considerations that few people on this board are taking into account. It's a global economy, and foreign investment will be a strong player. In housing, business, manufacturing, etc.

[daveakl]

That is absolutely other considerations that few people on this board are taking into account. It's a global economy, and foreign investment will be a strong player. In housing, business, manufacturing, etc.

The global part seems to confuse people.

Some people hate the idea of foreign companies/countries owning things here. I don't get why that is so bad.

The fact is we are headed towards a single currancy at some point anyway.

[Destino]

Either way, credit seems to be a thing of the past. Problem with that is, our entire economy is credit driven.

Credit will never be a thing of the past. It's how growth is created. Without the ability to borrow money nothing can grow quickly.

[Buford T. Justice]

I'm no finance expert either, but in laymens terms, their money is so tied into everyone elses that if they go under, it will cause a big ripple effect that will have a much larger impact.

Is this not what capitalism is about? If your institutution can not make money or is inefficient, it should fail?

[zoony]

Is this not what capitalism is about? If your institutution can not make money or is inefficient, it should fail?

In it's purest form, yes. But as history has shown, capitalism in its purest form isn't always best for the American people

[Koolblue13]

So if smaller banks are failing and being bought out by the larger banks and helped along by the Fed Reserve, isn't this a lot like the great depression and a similar situation to what the conspiracy theorists say about it in the first place?

[daveakl]

In it's purest form, yes. But as history has shown, capitalism in its purest form isn't always best for the American people

So very true. Perfect example is farming.

[Joe Sick]

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/80054/

Socialism Is OK for Rich White Guys, But Not the Rest of Us

Never do I want to hear again from my conservative friends about how brilliant capitalists are, how much they deserve their seven-figure salaries and how government should keep its hands off the private economy.

The Wall Street titans have turned into a bunch of welfare clients. They are desperate to be bailed out by government from their own incompetence, and from the deregulatory regime for which they lobbied so hard...

It's just fine to make it harder for the average Joe to file for bankruptcy, as did that wretched bankruptcy bill passed by Congress in 2005 at the request of the credit card industry. But the big guys are "too big to fail," because they could bring us all down with them.

[paige3girl]

I just read about this.... look all the Bear Sterns stuff for sale on ebay. I think the cast iron bank is actually pretty cool:

http://search.ebay.com/bear-stearns_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQdfspZ32QQfromZR40QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsbrsrtZd

[buenosdiaz]

I just read about this.... look all the Bear Sterns stuff for sale on ebay. I think the cast iron bank is actually pretty cool:

http://search.ebay.com/bear-stearns_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQdfspZ32QQfromZR40QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsbrsrtZd

150 for a bear? im in the wrong business lol

[iheartskins]

I have a copy of the Memos from the Chairman signed by Ace Greenberg from when I worked at Bear.