Anti-war judge rejects foster teen's bid to join military

[portisizzle]

http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8482917?source=email

SIMI VALLEY - Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.

But last fall, a Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner dashed the foster teen's hopes of early enlistment for Marine sniper duty, plus a potential $10,000 signing bonus.

In denying the Royal High School student delayed entry into the Marine Corps, Children's Court Commissioner Marilyn Mackel reportedly told Sage and a recruiter that she didn't approve of the Iraq war, didn't trust recruiters and didn't support the military.

"The judge said she didn't support the Iraq war for any reason why we're over there," said Marine recruiter Sgt. Guillermo Medrano of the Simi Valley USMC recruiting office.

____________________

wow. But I bet this same judge would fight to hell and high water for this kids right to do drugs in her state. :doh:

[BigMike619]

Thats complete BS. As a foster kid once you turn 18 or graduate from HS they kick you out of the system and you have to make it on your own. That judge's biased opinion will not hold up if the teen decides to appeal. Which he should!!

I joined the military...

[Burgold]

If that's the real reason for the judgement the Judge should be kicked off the bench.

[paige3girl]

wow this kid even wrote his own bill that would allow him to enlist. This is really messed up. This kid is very bright and really has set goals for himself, he should not be denied the right to acheive them because of someone's personal bias.

[PokerPacker]

the military isn't for me, but damn it, if this kid wants to take my place, who's right is it to tell him "no"? (besides his guardians')

[DGreenistheBest]

There's no way the decision stands.

[SUSkinsFan]

That judge needs to be kicked off the bench what they said.

My only question is (since it appears the kid is under 18), can he get permission from his foster parents to join or does he have to get the permission of the state?

[chomerics]

That judge needs to be kicked off the bench what they said.

My only question is (since it appears the kid is under 18), can he get permission from his foster parents to join or does he have to get the permission of the state?

That is the issue, and no the judge should not be kicked off the bench. The judge ruled that since he is a foster child, the state has to sign off on allowing him to go into the military.

It is about the legal rights of a 17 year old person, not about going into the military. The only people interviewed were the recruiter and the person's friend, not really going to give both sides of the situation, and will of course spin the decision as this is anti war.

It is a tough call, and IMO, I say do not allow the child to go because it sets prescient. He will be able to enlist in another 6 months, so let him enlist then. Do not give away the rights of a person under 18 to a pair of foster parents which could place him in harms way, even if he says it is ok.

It would be a different story if his it was his parents, or if they adopted him. because they are just foster parents, they can not supersede the state's wishes. If they want him to go that badly, they could adopt him and then the judge would have to obide by their wishes. In this case, he has to do what is in the states interest of the child, and sending him into the military to go into a war zone is not something the state should be doing to underage children in any case. Wait until he is 18 and then he can go, problem solved.

[Larry]

the military isn't for me, but damn it, if this kid wants to take my place, who's right is it to tell him "no"? (besides his guardians')

Apparently, as the law currently stands, the court is his guardian. (I'd assume that similar rules would require judicial permission for other major life decisions, like if he wanted to get married.)

Me, I'm not 100% opposed to having a requirement that somebody other than the foster parents review decisions of that magnatude. But I'm not 100% in favor of it, either. I could live with the foster parents making that decision, too. (Although I'll admit that I see a potential conflict, too. Might some foster's pressure kids into the military, either because they think they'll get the money, or because they want to get rid of the kid the day he turns 18?)

And I agree with whoever. hat judge had better have had a better reason for that ruling than the reason stated in the article.

(Although I'd also point out that the kid really doesn't appear to have been harmed much by this decision, either. He wasn't actually going to go in until he's 18 and graduated, and when that happens, he can still go in, without the stupid judge's permission. Only thing I can see that he might have lost is the signing bonus, and I'd bet that the Marines pay bonuses to 18-year-olds, too.)

[The_cavalierman]

That just sounds whacko....

No way that Judge will remain a judge for long

[A Real Mench]

That is the issue, and no the judge should not be kicked off the bench. The judge ruled that since he is a foster child, the state has to sign off on allowing him to go into the military.

It is about the legal rights of a 17 year old person, not about going into the military. The only people interviewed were the recruiter and the person's friend, not really going to give both sides of the situation, and will of course spin the decision as this is anti war.

It is a tough call, and IMO, I say do not allow the child to go because it sets prescient. He will be able to enlist in another 6 months, so let him enlist then. Do not give away the rights of a person under 18 to a pair of foster parents which could place him in harms way, even if he says it is ok.

It would be a different story if his it was his parents, or if they adopted him. because they are just foster parents, they can not supersede the state's wishes. If they want him to go that badly, they could adopt him and then the judge would have to obide by their wishes. In this case, he has to do what is in the states interest of the child, and sending him into the military to go into a war zone is not something the state should be doing to underage children in any case. Wait until he is 18 and then he can go, problem solved.

if hes gonna go in 6 months anyways, why not let him in now?

he wants to get a jumpstart on his life, and its not like hes going to get thrown into iraq right away, hes gonna be training and what not for a while beforehand

[portisizzle]

That is the issue, and no the judge should not be kicked off the bench. The judge ruled that since he is a foster child, the state has to sign off on allowing him to go into the military.

It is about the legal rights of a 17 year old person, not about going into the military. The only people interviewed were the recruiter and the person's friend, not really going to give both sides of the situation, and will of course spin the decision as this is anti war.

It is a tough call, and IMO, I say do not allow the child to go because it sets prescient. He will be able to enlist in another 6 months, so let him enlist then. Do not give away the rights of a person under 18 to a pair of foster parents which could place him in harms way, even if he says it is ok.

It would be a different story if his it was his parents, or if they adopted him. because they are just foster parents, they can not supersede the state's wishes. If they want him to go that badly, they could adopt him and then the judge would have to obide by their wishes. In this case, he has to do what is in the states interest of the child, and sending him into the military to go into a war zone is not something the state should be doing to underage children in any case. Wait until he is 18 and then he can go, problem solved.

Question. If a foster child is pregnant in Kalifornia, does the state have the right to tell the child to have, or not to have, an abortion?

[Burgold]

Question. If a foster child is pregnant in Kalifornia, does the state have the right to tell the child to have, or not to have, an abortion?

That is apples and oranges. When I was 14 and I wanted to get a job as an usher at a Movie Theater I needed parental concent. He's a minor (technically) applying for a very serious position. If the issue is concent, then the state as guardian does have supervisory decision.

That being said, if the ruling was made not on the basis of the kid's maturity and readiness and ability to understand what he's signing up for, but rather on the judge's politics... then I stand by my opinion that the judge ought to be kicked off the bench.

[SUSkinsFan]

That is the issue, and no the judge should not be kicked off the bench. The judge ruled that since he is a foster child, the state has to sign off on allowing him to go into the military.

The reason I said the judge should be kicked off the bench is because they let their own political leanings get in the way of determining this case. If the judge had simply said to the kid "I do not believe it is currently in your best interest to allow you to enter the armed forces" you wouldn't hear a word out of me.

However, the judge said they do not agree with the war and they don't trust recruiters, that is not solid legal justification for denying this young man the right to enter the armed services and serve his country.

[portisizzle]

That is apples and oranges.

http://www.sfcasa.org/articles/foster_childrens_rights.htm

meet at least once a month with the social worker assigned to their case to get birth control, prenatal care, or an abortion

So what is established is that a foster child need only "meet" with a social worker in order to get an abortion. Yet a child does not have the ability, according to this judge from Kali, to enlist as a Marine.

[Burgold]

http://www.sfcasa.org/articles/foster_childrens_rights.htm

meet at least once a month with the social worker assigned to their case to get birth control, prenatal care, or an abortion

So what is established is that a foster child need only "meet" with a social worker in order to get an abortion. Yet a child does not have the ability, according to this judge from Kali, to enlist as a Marine.

Still, apples an oranges. Children can get an abortion without parental or guardian approval in many areas of the country. Minors can not get a job without parental or guardian permission.

[portisizzle]

Still, apples an oranges. Children can get an abortion without parental or guardian approval in many areas of the country. Minors can not get a job without parental or guardian permission.

WOW. Did you just say that with a straight face?

[BigMike619]

Still, apples an oranges. Children can get an abortion without parental or guardian approval in many areas of the country. Minors can not get a job without parental or guardian permission.

those minors are NOT wards of the court.

When you are a ward of the court, like I was for 4 years, you cannot get your driver's license, you cannot have a job without it passing thru your social worker/probation officer and then a judge.

heck man, I wasnt even allowed to ride in any of my friends' cars from school to home.

Foster kids usually report to court once a month for updates and see Probation Officers on a regular basis. even if you did nothing wrong at all you are assigned one for legal purposes.

But the thing here is that once the kid turns 18 he is going to be declared an adult and made to move out of the foster parents home no matter what. he will be in charge of everything and will then have the choice even if the judge rants and complains until the cows come home.

And I was a ward of the court in CA which is where this kid is.

[Burgold]

those minors are NOT wards of the court.

When you are a ward of the court, like I was for 4 years, you cannot get your driver's license, you cannot have a job without it passing thru your social worker/probation officer and then a judge.

heck man, I wasnt even allowed to ride in any of my friends' cars from school to home.

Foster kids usually report to court once a month for updates and see Probation Officers on a regular basis. even if you did nothing wrong at all you are assigned one for legal purposes.

But the thing here is that once the kid turns 18 he is going to be declared an adult and made to move out of the foster parents home no matter what. he will be in charge of everything and will then have the choice even if the judge rants and complains until the cows come home.

And I was a ward of the court in CA which is where this kid is.

So, if I'm understanding you it makes total sense to you that he needed to go to the judge for permission?

I think the reason the article stated was crap and as I've said twice before in this thread if that was the justification used for denial, that judge needs to be booted from the bench. Sizzle's red herring is just that. I think it is irrelevent to whether or not a foster child should be able to join the millitary.

On a personal level, if he is proven mature and capable of making this decision with knowledge of the risk it entails (in other words not MR or cognitively disabled) then not only should he be allowed to join we should be honored and proud he made that decision.

[portisizzle]

Sizzle's red herring is just that.

Comparing the relative seriousness behind the decision to have an abortion vs. enlisting in the military is not a red herring, Burgold. All it does is serve to remind all how backward the thinking is with this judge.

Enlist in the military----NO!!

Have an abortion----YES!!

Smoke dope-----YES!!

[twa]

The judge clearly is showing bias and should be reprimanded or disciplined.

As brikem05 said a simple refusal for immaturity ect w/o the added BS would be a different matter.

The DEP is also not a lock into enlisting,though it is a legal commitment.

OT...when did the Marines start giving enlistment bonuses?

[BigMike619]

So, if I'm understanding you it makes total sense to you that he needed to go to the judge for permission?

I think the reason the article stated was crap and as I've said twice before in this thread if that was the justification used for denial, that judge needs to be booted from the bench. Sizzle's red herring is just that. I think it is irrelevent to whether or not a foster child should be able to join the millitary.

On a personal level, if he is proven mature and capable of making this decision with knowledge of the risk it entails (in other words not MR or cognitively disabled) then not only should he be allowed to join we should be honored and proud he made that decision.

Oh yeah dude, I had to ask a judge to get a job after school with my foster parents son who was 45 and worked at a hospital. I had to see a shrink 2 times a month whether things were great or not and I was randomly drug tested and "checked up on" whenever they got the notion to.

Now do I agree or think its right? HECK NO! Once that kid graduates from HS they are going to kick him out anyways so he doesnt really need to talk to a judge about anything. When I moved back with my father in MD at 18 my old PO tried to call and "check up on me" and I told him to go F himself and never call again. And when he called back my father told him the same thing. Its all about control and the looming presence that is needed in some cases to scare kids into behaving.

I was caught shoplifting ONE time when I was 12. Heavy metal magazine, no big deal right? WRONG!! The cops, my principal, my psychiatrist my foster mother, my social worker AND my probation officer all had to meet with me to decide what my future should be and reccomend it to the judge for my next hearing. It was ONE magazine and I didnt rob them of it at gunpoint, I stuck it under my shirt and walked out. But thats how serious it is.

You arent even allowed to take drivers ed when its available if you are a foster kid.

[Burgold]

Smoke dope-----YES!!

What judge is giving his thumbs up to foster kids abusing illegal drugs? Unless the foster kid was pregnant while trying to join the millitary, you are just making a tapestry using cowhide and jello.

[Burgold]

You arent even allowed to take drivers ed when its available if you are a foster kid.

I'm at the very beginning of researching a piece that involves foster care for NPR. Some of it is really odd, strange, unfair. For example, kids in fostercare in Maryland are not permitted to have their picture published in the school year book. They aren't even permitted to have their picture taken by the school. It's for confidentiality reasons, so one hand, I can understand why, but it's also so hard on a kid trying to find normality to have some of these impositions placed on them.

[portisizzle]

What judge is giving his thumbs up to foster kids abusing illegal drugs? Unless the foster kid was pregnant while trying to join the millitary, you are just making a tapestry using cowhide and jello.

Ring around the roses.

Bottom line is this judge would allow a foster child over twelve to have an abortion. That same judge would not allow a 17 year old to enlist in the military. You don't see this for face value?

Ashes,ashes. They all fall down.