A question abotu Danny and the Ownership of the Redskins...

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

Did Danny really need to borrow money? Wow!

[kingfish50]

He wouldn't take no for an answer, and busted his butt. He grew up poor, and hated being that way. Like most people who make a fortune, he wasn't necessarily a genius in the mold of Newton or Adam Smith, he just found a niche and excelled in it. Being too smart can actually hurt you in some kinds of marketing, where it is imperative to think like the average person and understand what drives their purchase decisions. Nikola Tesla or Thomas Jefferson, for example, would suck at the type of marketing that made Snyder a billionaire, because the essence of their genius, or most genius, was & is thinking differently than everyone else. Snyder found a niche for a very focused kind of marketing that was being underutilized, and exploited it, and this is how most people get rich--an under-realized market or need is exploited or filled. Jerry Jones is another example. Not a genius, but busted butt, found a niche in energy, exploited it.

Becoming richer is different. Decent people like Bill Gates and Snyder can and do become despicable scoundrels once rich, looking to make money on the backs of the masses, through collusion & monopolies rather than competition & production, and Snyder is no different, as evidenced by his parking, etc. policies. He was probably able to borrow the money by assessing naming rights values prior to purchase, and telling the people who had backed him in everything else, and the bankers, a simple fact:

Redskins fans are suckers. They are also very affluent, per capita, relative to many other franchises, it being the Capitol. The waiting list is almost 100,000 people. It doesn't matter how much you raise prices for parking food, etc., how many seats you cram in the stadium, how many luxury boxes you build, how much you pimp the stadium out with gaudy but profitable advertising and degrade the game experience, or how bad the actual product, the team, is, the idiotic fanbase will pay an almost infinite price to see the skins no matter what. They will ALWAYS sell out, and are a product with essentially inelastic demand. So I'll buy the team, jack every price for anything and everything to sky-high levels previously unimaginable, and make a killing. Maybe the waiting list will only be 50K when I'm done instead of 100K (or whatever the number actually is)--it won't matter. They'll pay it. And then some. With smiles.

Jack Kent Cooke had class; he wanted to make a profit, but wasn't willing to gouge the fans into the ground to increase that profit. Maybe Snyder will age like the cliched fine wine, but for now, class and a winning team seem to be the only two things he hasn't been able to buy.

Snyder was far from being poor. His family wasn't rich but he led a very comfortable life and even lived in Europe for a few years with his family.

[AAARedskin]

For all the folks who have bashed John Kent Cooke, ask yourself this simple question: Unlike Dan Snyder, do you think he would have played the role of owner AND GENERAL MANAGER had he been awarded the Redskins? Sure, we root for the Danny because as fans, we have no other choice at times. Not that I care, but many fans around the nation laugh and point at our owner and the team, all because of the wild trades and roster moves done in past years. So folks, don't embarrass yourself anymore by taking cheap shots at John Kent Cooke. Obviously his deceased father JACK was a strange and odd man in the personal sense not to will the REDSKINS to his surviving children. In conclusion, YES....I think our beloved Redskins would have been far, far better off in the long run had the team stayed in the Cooke family.

[TheLongshot]

For all the folks who have bashed John Kent Cooke, ask yourself this simple question: Unlike Dan Snyder, do you think he would have played the role of owner AND GENERAL MANAGER had he been awarded the Redskins? Sure, we root for the Danny because as fans, we have no other choice at times. Not that I care, but many fans around the nation laugh and point at our owner and the team, all because of the wild trades and roster moves done in past years. So folks, don't embarrass yourself anymore by taking cheap shots at John Kent Cooke. Obviously his deceased father JACK was a strange and odd man in the personal sense not to will the REDSKINS to his surviving children. In conclusion, YES....I think our beloved Redskins would have been far, far better off in the long run had the team stayed in the Cooke family.

First off, Snyder has never played the role of GM. Last I checked, he didn't run any drafts. He may have pushed for some players, but his role is not the same as Jerry Jones or Al Davis.

His main responsibilities seem to be being heavily involved with hiring coaches and negotiations with free agents. Well, guess what? So was JKC. While he wasn't responsible for finding Joe Gibbs, he did hire Pettibon and Norv. You think Casserly hired Norv and just put up with him for years? I don't think so.

Cooke also got involved when players were holding out. I do remeber the 1992 Americas team which talked about Mark Rypien's holdout in a previous season and he got a call from Cooke.

Not everything Cooke did was golden. You know that stadium that people here endlessly complain about? Cooke is the one responsible for building it. Granted, most of us wanted it, but we all found out very quickly that it is far from perfect.

The man could be rude. He also had his wars with the Washington Post, which Shirley Povich talked about in the obit he wrote up in his column back then.

But, he will be remembered for being the owner of a team that won 3 Super Bowls. But, that didn't come just because he owned the team, but because he had a great GM like Beathard and a great coach like Gibbs. If Snyder finds that guy, he could be viewed in the same way.

Jason

[AAARedskin]

First off, Snyder has never played the role of GM. Last I checked, he didn't run any drafts. He may have pushed for some players, but his role is not the same as Jerry Jones or Al Davis.

His main responsibilities seem to be being heavily involved with hiring coaches and negotiations with free agents. Well, guess what? So was JKC. While he wasn't responsible for finding Joe Gibbs, he did hire Pettibon and Norv. You think Casserly hired Norv and just put up with him for years? I don't think so.

Cooke also got involved when players were holding out. I do remeber the 1992 Americas team which talked about Mark Rypien's holdout in a previous season and he got a call from Cooke.

Not everything Cooke did was golden. You know that stadium that people here endlessly complain about? Cooke is the one responsible for building it. Granted, most of us wanted it, but we all found out very quickly that it is far from perfect.

The man could be rude. He also had his wars with the Washington Post, which Shirley Povich talked about in the obit he wrote up in his column back then.

But, he will be remembered for being the owner of a team that won 3 Super Bowls. But, that didn't come just because he owned the team, but because he had a great GM like Beathard and a great coach like Gibbs. If Snyder finds that guy, he could be viewed in the same way.

Jason

Jason, I was making reference to the fact that Jack Kent Cooke and his son John had real GENERAL MANAGERS under contract. You and I both know that Dan Snyder to this DAY doesn't have a true general manager. It can also be reasonably speculated that Snyder takes a far, far more active role in the draft and roster moves than the Cookes ever did. (That's why they hired guys like Beathard to do that kind of work for them) Sure, I exaggerated about Snyder being the GM as well as the owner, but surely you and others can see how close he has come in the past to truly playing both of those roles. (how absurd of someone like him to think he can actually judge football talent...amazing) As for the present, I LOVED this past draft, and this has been the BEST off-season ever in the Dan Snyder era. I will be the first to agree that once our beloved Skins win a championship, many of the Dan Snyder taunts will fade away.

[Walking Deadman]

I wish I had Snyder's lack of genius that so many here have said.

I'd be rich, own the frigging Redskins for crying out loud

AND

own the message board where people can come and ***** about how stupid I am (or how they think I am ).

Good times

[RenegadeTK]

man... REAL interesting/informative thread. keep it up.....

[Darth Tater]

Well, Longshot seem to be one of the few sane posters in this thread.

[ljs]

I agree w/ Renegade, good info. But how do you guys know all this? news or what?

[CM916]

The only thing I wish they might have done is keep the JKC name in some capacity. I really don't see the difference between FedEx Field and FedEx Presents Jack Kent Cooke Stadium except that the latter is selling out without completely doing so.

[Dan T.]

First off, Snyder has never played the role of GM. Last I checked, he didn't run any drafts. He may have pushed for some players, but his role is not the same as Jerry Jones or Al Davis.

His main responsibilities seem to be being heavily involved with hiring coaches and negotiations with free agents. Well, guess what? So was JKC. While he wasn't responsible for finding Joe Gibbs, he did hire Pettibon and Norv. You think Casserly hired Norv and just put up with him for years? I don't think so.

Cooke also got involved when players were holding out. I do remeber the 1992 Americas team which talked about Mark Rypien's holdout in a previous season and he got a call from Cooke.

Not everything Cooke did was golden. You know that stadium that people here endlessly complain about? Cooke is the one responsible for building it. Granted, most of us wanted it, but we all found out very quickly that it is far from perfect.

The man could be rude. He also had his wars with the Washington Post, which Shirley Povich talked about in the obit he wrote up in his column back then.

But, he will be remembered for being the owner of a team that won 3 Super Bowls. But, that didn't come just because he owned the team, but because he had a great GM like Beathard and a great coach like Gibbs. If Snyder finds that guy, he could be viewed in the same way.

Jason

Jack Kent Cooke came across as a pompous bully, but he was the best team owner a city could ever hope for.

Here's the fundamental difference between Jack Kent Cooke and Dan Snyder. Jack Kent Cooke treated the Redskins as a toy, a diversion from all of his business enterprises. He acknowledged his lack of real knowledge about the game itself, but prided himself on hiring the right people, then largely stayed the hell out of their way and let them do their jobs. I'll bet a month's mortgage he was never in the situation room evaluating players. I don't think you would make that same bet about Snyder. Cooke was just as generous with his wallet as Snyder, but let the football people make the football decisions. You are right in that Cooke did step when contract negotiations hit a snag, but that was the exception rather than the rule.

Where the Skins were a plaything for Cooke, Dan Snyder focuses on the Redskins as his number one business priority, divesting himself of his primary business -Snyder Communications - to focus on the Redskins. Like Cooke, he's willing to spend lavishly on the team, but unlike Cooke, he doesn't limit himself to the business end of things, but seems to be more involved in the decisionmaking on the football matters. He's a smart guy, and has probably learned much in the 9 years he's owned the team, but I wish he'd take a lesson from Cooke and step back more from the football/personnel decisionmaking.

As to the stadium, I think it's unfair to criticise Cooke on that. He tried like hell to get it built in DC. Then he came close to getting it built in Alexandria in Potomac Yards, where rail lines would have allowed easy access. PG County was a last resort. AND HE PAID FOR IT HIMSELF.

Cooke had many flaws, but Redskins fans couldn't have asked for a better owner.

[Mania]

In the end, its a shame to see where this team was when Cooke owned the team, to where this team has gone under the ownership of Snyder (and his partners, of course).

We were an excellent team under Joe Gibbs, but right when he retired we became a bad team. Gibbs retired at the end of the 1992 season and we were bad through the Petitbon and Turner years, except for Snyder's first season as owner when we won the division.

We have been better under Snyder post Gibbs I, then we were under JKC. Just look at the records. In the 7 years prior to Snyder purchasing the team we had one winning season and no playoff trips. Since Snyder has bought the team we have had 3 playoff trips and two wins in the playoffs.

I have no problem with Snyder and I feel the entire coach hiring process was blown out of proportion by whom else...............the media. He is completely misunderstood and it would possibly be better if he gave more interviews to the media, but that is not and will not be his style.

[Mark The Homer]

We have been better under Snyder post Gibbs I, then we were under JKC. Just look at the records. In the 7 years prior to Snyder purchasing the team we had one winning season and no playoff trips. Since Snyder has bought the team we have had 3 playoff trips and two wins in the playoffs.

I'm not sure how much credit we can give Mr. Snyder for the 1999 playoff run. He took over the team in mid July 1999, with the first preseason game 2-3 weeks away. I think it's interesting and kind of ironic that the season where Mr. Snyder's influence was the least is the same season the Redskins' success was the most.

[jimster]

I'm not sure how much credit we can give Mr. Snyder for the 1999 playoff run. He took over the team in mid July 1999, with the first preseason game 2-3 weeks away. I think it's interesting and kind of ironic that the season where Mr. Snyder's influence was the least is the same season the Redskins' success was the most.

I'm pretty sure he took the team over in Late April/early May. The sale wasn't finalized until late March, which is over two months later than most teams' sales are. This is also why we lost Trent Green - because March 1st came and went, so Trent followed his QB coach (Mike Martz) to his home state. Casserly was still in the GM's chair, so he traded 2 first round picks for Brad Johnson to replace Green. This was also too late in the off-season to find a new coach, so he was stuck with Norv.

The story in the media was, that Snyder told Norv in '99, playoffs or you're gone. For the first time ever Norv had to perform to keep his job.

Vinny secured some good role players post June 1st that helped us that year, like Larry Centers, Marco Coleman, Andy Heck and Irving Fryar.

Had the sale gone through sooner, we would have had Trent Green at QB for years and possibly Mike Holmgren as coach.

[TheLongshot]

Jack Kent Cooke came across as a pompous bully, but he was the best team owner a city could ever hope for.

Here's the fundamental difference between Jack Kent Cooke and Dan Snyder. Jack Kent Cooke treated the Redskins as a toy, a diversion from all of his business enterprises. He acknowledged his lack of real knowledge about the game itself, but prided himself on hiring the right people, then largely stayed the hell out of their way and let them do their jobs. I'll bet a month's mortgage he was never in the situation room evaluating players. I don't think you would make that same bet about Snyder. Cooke was just as generous with his wallet as Snyder, but let the football people make the football decisions. You are right in that Cooke did step when contract negotiations hit a snag, but that was the exception rather than the rule.

Where the Skins were a plaything for Cooke, Dan Snyder focuses on the Redskins as his number one business priority, divesting himself of his primary business -Snyder Communications - to focus on the Redskins. Like Cooke, he's willing to spend lavishly on the team, but unlike Cooke, he doesn't limit himself to the business end of things, but seems to be more involved in the decisionmaking on the football matters. He's a smart guy, and has probably learned much in the 9 years he's owned the team, but I wish he'd take a lesson from Cooke and step back more from the football/personnel decisionmaking.

As to the stadium, I think it's unfair to criticise Cooke on that. He tried like hell to get it built in DC. Then he came close to getting it built in Alexandria in Potomac Yards, where rail lines would have allowed easy access. PG County was a last resort. AND HE PAID FOR IT HIMSELF.

Cooke had many flaws, but Redskins fans couldn't have asked for a better owner.

Let me get this straight: It is better to have an owner who is disinterested in running things himself rather than having a hands-on owner who wants to learn every bit about the business? I know if I bought an NFL franchise, I would most definitely be involved with the football end of things. I don't know many people on this board who wouldn't.

As I said, I think he was fortunate that he had Beathard running things, because he certainly had a tough time after Gibbs retired, because he missed with Pettibon and he missed with Norv, both of which were solely his hires.

As for the stadium, I bring it up because people get down on Snyder about the stadium, but all he's doing is to do the best he can with what he has. Certainly, some things are his responsibility, but a lot of the problems of the stadium existed well before Snyder bought the team. As much as I respect Cooke for spending his own money to build the stadium, it also wasn't everything it could have been.

Jason

[TheLongshot]

I'm pretty sure he took the team over in Late April/early May. The sale wasn't finalized until late March, which is over two months later than most teams' sales are. This is also why we lost Trent Green - because March 1st came and went, so Trent followed his QB coach (Mike Martz) to his home state. Casserly was still in the GM's chair, so he traded 2 first round picks for Brad Johnson to replace Green. This was also too late in the off-season to find a new coach, so he was stuck with Norv.

Actually, I remember the trade being a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd for Johnson. I remember it being pricey considering what we had lost, but I forgave it somewhat when he performed.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Jack Kent Cooke had class; he wanted to make a profit, but wasn't willing to gouge the fans into the ground to increase that profit. Maybe Snyder will age like the cliched fine wine, but for now, class and a winning team seem to be the only two things he hasn't been able to buy.

I would use a lot of words in writing an biography of JKC.

I'm not sure "class" would be too high on the list.

He was a lot of things - some good, some awful. But it's hard to call someone classy when they feud with their children over their coke whore wife.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Anyway, I'm not exactly the biggest Snyder supporter but I find the comparisons to JKC to be completely unfair. For one thing, Snyder seems - at least from a distance - to be twice the man in his personal life that Cooke was in his. Snyder may be selfish and petty in some regards, but he seems to do all right by his family and friends. And if I may be allowed to psychoanalyze him, I get the impression that most of Snyder's failings come from a lack of self-confidence (which is insane when you consider he is richer than King Faroux). Cooke had self confidence enough for 8 men, and that allowed him to BS his way through life.

As for their ownership. Well, Cooke WAS Snyder in that price was no object. He just tended to be luckier. He fell ass backwards into Joe Gibbs and Bobby Beathard and was smart enough to get out of the way - while still managing to find the spotlight. If he had hired the wrong coach, who knows what his legacy would be?

I do think that Cooke had more "vision" than Dan in that he saw himself as "A Great Man" and attempted to do "Great Things" like build the Forum in Inglewood and buy the Chrysler building and bring hockey to California and build his monument to himself in Landover. Somehow, buying a failing amusement park just doesn't really compare.

[jimster]

Somehow' date=' buying a failing amusement park just doesn't really compare.[/quote']

Buying a failing business is what enabled him to buy it. In order to buy stock, you have someone willing to sell their shares, and he was able to take control of the company because he was able to buy up 35% of the company rather quickly. - People were jumping ship.

The way he bought that company happens all the time. You pay through the nose if you buy a prospering company.

I don't believe anyone (in the business world) thought that would be a quick turn around, especially with concerns at the time he took control that a recession was coming. Entertainment stocks generally get hit across the board during a recession - restaurants, casinos, amusement parks, etc.

[FlyinO]

When you really pay attention to Snyder's past' date=' his success makes little sense. How he ever got Snyder Communications funded in the first place is inexplicable. How it was able to be sold for $2 billion is confusing. How he was able to borrow enough to buy the Redskins appears to be a miracle.

And watching him run Six Flags through the ground and straight into Hell, it makes you wonder what his real "genius" is.[/quote']

That's what I've always wondered also. :applause:

[Mark The Homer]

I'm pretty sure he took the team over in Late April/early May. The sale wasn't finalized until late March, which is over two months later than most teams' sales are.

The story in the media was, that Snyder told Norv in '99, playoffs or you're gone. For the first time ever Norv had to perform to keep his job.

Vinny secured some good role players post June 1st that helped us that year, like Larry Centers, Marco Coleman, Andy Heck and Irving Fryar.

Had the sale gone through sooner, we would have had Trent Green at QB for years and possibly Mike Holmgren as coach.

Hmm. Time to whip out my REDSKINS ENCYCLOPEDIA by Michael Richman, recommended on this site by the one and only OM (he has a very cool first name, btw) and on page 197 it says: "Such was the approach by 34 year old Dan Snyder, a native of nearby Montgomery County, who officially took over control of the team in July, 1999."

I do specifically remember it was mid July. It might have been the 17th. I have this weird memory thing with numbers.

[jimster]

Hmm. Time to whip out my REDSKINS ENCYCLOPEDIA by Michael Richman, recommended on this site by the one and only OM (he has a very cool first name, btw) and on page 197 it says: "Such was the approach by 34 year old Dan Snyder, a native of nearby Montgomery County, who officially took over control of the team in July, 1999."

I do specifically remember it was mid July. It might have been the 17th. I have this weird memory thing with numbers.

I guess you're right, but I remember the other things I mentioned. Norv was not popular with most of my football-watching buddies and I at the time, and we were glad to see someone put pressure on him.

[Mark The Homer]

Me too actually. I was a big Snyder fan when he first took over.

[Dan T.]

Let me get this straight: It is better to have an owner who is disinterested in running things himself rather than having a hands-on owner who wants to learn every bit about the business? I know if I bought an NFL franchise, I would most definitely be involved with the football end of things. I don't know many people on this board who wouldn't.

Yes, it is better to have an owner who leaves the football things to the football people. He can be all over the business end of things, as Snyder - and presumably Cooke - was. But as to the football end of things, hire the best people you can, and let them do their jobs. That model seems to work better.

As I said, I think he was fortunate that he had Beathard running things, because he certainly had a tough time after Gibbs retired, because he missed with Pettibon and he missed with Norv, both of which were solely his hires.

So he was 1 for 3 in coaching hires. Pettitbone didn't really get a fair shake. He was left with a shell of a team. You have to give credit to Cooke for putting together one of the most successful duos in history in Beathard and Gibbs. And Gibbs was a risky hire at the time. But Cooke trusted Beathard, and he trusted his own instinct in okaying the Gibbs hire.

As for the stadium, I bring it up because people get down on Snyder about the stadium, but all he's doing is to do the best he can with what he has. Certainly, some things are his responsibility, but a lot of the problems of the stadium existed well before Snyder bought the team. As much as I respect Cooke for spending his own money to build the stadium, it also wasn't everything it could have been.

I agree with this to an extent. Snyder has tried to make the most of the stadium he bought with the team. It's tough to fault Cooke for building the stadium with his own money. I think much of the problem with the stadium lies in its location, something he tried very hard to have a different outcome. If you plop Fed Ex on the old RFK site or another downtown location, or a location with easy driving/public transit access, a lost of those complaints disappear.

I have a gut sense Snyder, after 9 years, is getting the hang of the whole ownership thing. The Zorn/Cerrato era will tell the tale.

[zoony]

As crotchety and bitter as JKC was... and everything that transpired within his family... and not to even mention what those who knew him have said about him in hindsight... he was still beloved among Redskin fans. And not just for his wins imho. I think most folks genuinely liked the guy.

I think it kind of goes to show just how hard it is to alienate this fan base, one of the most loyal in sports. Snyder has just about done it. Some even speculate it is by design. Who really knows