Time for my thoughts (bumped post from Jan. 2008) MET.

[voicekiller]

I think you're right on the money with Williams but I also think his arrogance, and attitude played a major part in him not getting the job...I also feel you are right that last years bad reps from the defensive side of the ball played a part as well...I understand many of you are upset with Williams not being hired but most of the defensive coaches are back and that keeps continuity on the defensive side of the ball...also we have to understand that we are not the ones who have to work with Williams it would be Danny and Vinny, and if they didn't feel they could work with him then they couldn't work with him...i don't want the FO and the coaches at each others throats all the time i want them all to work together to make this team the best it can be...i wish Gregg the best, except when his team plays us

[Dirk Diggler]

I can't fathom for a second that Williams was unprepared for the interview process. He blew away the Buffalo executives with a few days to prepare for that interview. He had 4 years to prepare for this chance here.

My very uneducated guess is that Cerrato got into Snyder's ear about Williams and planted the seed of doubt. Like any other defacto GM, now that Cerrato is in charge he wants to bring in his own guy because that's the only way he's going to get credit in the long run if the team succeeds.

[Art]

I still cant figure out why everyone here hates Fassel. Dude is a proven good coach. The "he was fired by his best friend" thing is ridiculous. Billick is convinced he is the smartest Offensive mind ever. And even this genius could not make Baltimore's offense work. Sure they improved their offensive rankings after Fassel was fired, but only for a few games...and then they went right back to being crap. That offense's failings do not fall at Fassel's feet. I like Fassel and before Gibbs appeared out of nowhere, he was who I wanted to replace Spurrier. I think he is a good hire. We will have two guys known for bringing up young QBs working with our young QB. This is a smart move guys...you will see.

For me, Fassel ran undisciplined, inconsistent teams. Very Norv-esque, only with slightly larger balls. I do not believe he effectively helps a team that for the most part is defined by inconsistency. He's just not the coach I want here. I'll cheer for him if he's the coach I get, but, boy, I hope he doesn't do stupid things that make me crush him .

[voicekiller]

For me, Fassel ran undisciplined, inconsistent teams. Very Norv-esque, only with slightly larger balls. I do not believe he effectively helps a team that for the most part is defined by inconsistency. He's just not the coach I want here. I'll cheer for him if he's the coach I get, but, boy, I hope he doesn't do stupid things that make me crush him .

Art i don't think you are going to have to worry about Fassel i have a feeling Spags will be the next HC

[TheGuru10]

I think it simply came down to a difference in philosophy. The NFL has changed in the past few years. 8 of the top 10 offenses were among the top 10 teams in passing. 3 of the top 10 offenses were among the top 10 teams in rushing.

In my opinion and Williams alluded to it on many occasions, the debacle of 2006 was a result of our offense starting the season by not being as conservative as in '04, '05 and '07. Saunders didn't play the field position game that defensive coordinators love. He ran his offense the way he always did and that often left the other teams offense with a short field. Saunders did this in KC too, where they had one of the worst defenses in the league each year. It's not a coincidence that our defense was ranked 31st when Saunders arrived.

When you look at Snyder's hiring of Spurrier, his hiring of Gibbs and his overall personality you know he really wants a high powered offense. That runs directly counter to what Williams wants. Williams would want what we had this past year, an offense that can take advantage of a short field(How many times did Williams say his defense was among the league leaders in starting field position for the offense.) Those are two very different philosophies and the owner is always going to win in that power struggle. It's probably best for us as fans that that power struggle isn't going to take place b/c that would lead to 2-3 years of Williams and a new start. If that is going to happen then I'd rather it happen now.

[Birdlives]

So let me get this straight. Williams gets ZERO credit for Taylor, McIntosh.

Logically speaking, yes. I'm not saying he had no input, but to assume he's the one who got everyone on board to draft these guys is even more naive. read the post I was responding to.

Montgomery, ect because Vinny/Dan/Gibbs were running the show but Archuleta, Holdman, Barrow Rumph and letting Smoot and Pierce go was his fault?

Like I said, more likely he had influence over FA signings and releases than draft picks. No?

That's some awfully convoluted logic, don't ya think? The good stuff was not him but the bad stuff was?

Look at the way things went. And for the record, I did not just attribute good vs. bad on that scale. I give every bit of credit to Williams for Griffin, Springs, Washington, Marshall's success, Pierce's success, grabbing guys like Carter who I should have mentioned.

What ground are you standing on to say the draft was Gibbs and Co but FA was Gregg? At least there's no agenda here.

Because Williams was the DC, not in the front office, He could merely make suggestions. Are you offering up the idea that Williams was a player in the player acquisitions division?

I'm just merely pointing out a rationale for why Williams was not selected as a head coach. Seriously, his player acquisition skills seem to be lacking. Do you disagree?

[Art]

Art i don't think you are going to have to worry about Fassel i have a feeling Spags will be the next HC

Maybe so, but you have to admit, another reason to wait to announce Fassel if he's a done deal until after the Super Bowl is to allow the breathlessness to run out of steam a little. No matter how much we, as fans, are not really fans of Fassel, after 10 days or so of the story and presuming he's a possibility, there's only so much left to say at the time it's announced .

[TheGuru10]

Art i don't think you are going to have to worry about Fassel i have a feeling Spags will be the next HC

I've known Spags for a long time and think he would be a great coach, I just can't imagine a team hiring a former defensive coordinator as their head coach and having him inherit an already hired defensive coordinator(Blache). Spags would want his own defense installed here and his own people to run that defense. There is no way he would even take the job if that was the hand he was dealt. And remember, he hasn't been interviewed yet, so he didn't sign off on Blache first. If the defensive staff is being left in place as has been reported the new head coach will be an offensive minded coach.

[DCsportsfan53]

Logically speaking, yes. I'm not saying he had no input, but to assume he's the one who got everyone on board to draft these guys is even more naive. read the post I was responding to.

Like I said, more likely he had influence over FA signings and releases than draft picks. No?

Look at the way things went. And for the record, I did not just attribute good vs. bad on that scale. I give every bit of credit to Williams for Griffin, Springs, Washington, Marshall's success, Pierce's success, grabbing guys like Carter who I should have mentioned.

Because Williams was the DC, not in the front office, He could merely make suggestions. Are you offering up the idea that Williams was a player in the player acquisitions division?

I'm just merely pointing out a rationale for why Williams was not selected as a head coach. Seriously, his player acquisition skills seem to be lacking. Do you disagree?

Shouldn't that apply just as much to FA as the draft though? I mean, once they've decided to go defense with a pick, don't you think Williams had just as much input as he would on a Free Agent?

Aside from that, I'll refer you back to my previous post.

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4811572&postcount=14

[Birdlives]

Shouldn't that apply just as much to FA as the draft though? I mean, once they've decided to go defense with a pick, don't you think Williams had just as much input as he would on a Free Agent?

Aside from that, I'll refer you back to my previous post.

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4811572&postcount=14

Quite frankly that's not what we have here with the Washington Redskins. Again, I'm not speaking for the front office, just offering up my opinion as to why we haven't had a press conference naming Williams as Head Coach. I think Snyder and Co. don't like that part of Williams game. I also can't say I blame them.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I can't fathom for a second that Williams was unprepared for the interview process. He blew away the Buffalo executives with a few days to prepare for that interview. He had 4 years to prepare for this chance here.

My very uneducated guess is that Cerrato got into Snyder's ear about Williams and planted the seed of doubt. Like any other defacto GM, now that Cerrato is in charge he wants to bring in his own guy because that's the only way he's going to get credit in the long run if the team succeeds.

Good point. It all goes back to the "ego" discussion. Because these guys are letting their egos make decisions, this franchise will always suffer. Just b/c you don't get along with someone doesn't mean that they aren't fit to do what they do best. I trust Gregg Williams' ego more than I trust Vinny's or Dan's. Apparently they want full control and quiet/passive coaches to shut up and coach so they can run things. Maybe that's a good thing, but the past says otherwise.

It's great for them if things start going well, but it's equally dangerous for them if things go poorly under these new coaches. The sad part is that if/when we go 5-11 next season, Danny will fire everyone and bring in Bill Cowher to shut everyone up. It's an endless cycle. Marty was right for this team. Gregg would've been right too. Snyder manages to **** things up when he's got the "right thing" sitting there in front of him. Why? Because he can't get out of the way of his own ****ing ego.

Get rid of Saunders so there's no qb controversy or questions about Collins being here. Get rid of Gregg b/c he'll be too stubborn and Vinny doesn't like him anyway. Now you've pissed your team off and there really is no continuity in their eyes. I would surmise that everything Snyder spoke about looks like a lie in the fan's eyes, the media's eyes, and more importantly the players eyes. Danny Smith, Buges, and Blache don't equal continuity to me. I heard support for Gregg Williams from many of the players. I didn't hear them talk about the staff. The one guy they wanted is out the door. The worst part is that it seems that no one got anything explained to them. If these players feel cheated, they'll fold like lawn chairs if they start losing under a new coach/staff. These coaches, along with Vinny and Dan, better get some big-time players in here that mesh well with what we've got to complete the puzzle or it's going to be disastrously comical at the end of the '08 season. :2cents:

[DCsportsfan53]

Quite frankly that's not what we have here with the Washington Redskins. Again, I'm not speaking for the front office, just offering up my opinion as to why we haven't had a press conference naming Williams as Head Coach. I think Snyder and Co. don't like that part of Williams game. I also can't say I blame them.

We're probably in agreement then, he's certainly made some blunders. However, I'd just like to add that, if THAT is the reason they didn't hire Gregg as HC, if they broke up the chemistry of the team because they needed a coach who could semi play GM with them effectively because they don't want a real GM, then that's an awfully short sighted and stupid mistake on their part. :2cents:

[Dirk Diggler]

You are so far off it's not even funny. Clearly, you have some kind of anti-Williams bias but the sad thing is that it's obscured by your own inability to know the facts.

Sorry, but I don't think it's appropriate to attribute high draft picks to the DC when it was clearly Snyder/Cerrato/Gibbs running the drafts.

You can't be selective like this. Either you attribute every player to Williams or no players to Williams. One or the other. Sure, it's Gibbs who decides that they are going to pick Sean Taylor over Kellen Winslow. But who do you think decides that Laron Landry is better than Amobi Okoye? Williams.

Also and in fact, I give more credit to our scouts for late round picks and Gibbs for picks 1-3. It's easy to pick in rounds 1-3. Who wouldn't endorse Taylor, Landry, and McIntosh?

Teams screw up the #1 overall pick about 50% of the time. There's never been a slam dunk and there never will be. Round 1 picks are easier than Round 4 picks but none of them are easy. If you knew just a little draft history you'd realize that.

As for Monty, remember, we had offered our 6th that year to sign one Jeremetrious Butler from the Rams only to have them match and we ended up keeping our 6th to use on Monty. Had the Rams let Butler go, no Monty. The following year we signed Butler and released him during camp.

Wrong. Monty was a 5th rounder. Nice try. Did Butler cost us anything other than a plane ticket?

As for FA signings (more likely influenced by Williams) there are more failures than successes.

Williams felt we could live without Pierce, but wanted Barrow(one down, even one down? No, not one down.), and Holdman(felt pretty strongly about him over Arrington too) He let Smoot go (only to have a severe DB need in the following year). He certainly was behind Archuleta. He also thought we could live with Marshall in the middle and without Clark in the backfield. He wanted Wright as a nickel DB(that worked out well), and probably led to the debacle known as Mike Rumph.

Who's fault is that?

In another thread from 2 months ago, someone wrote that his handling of the personnel has been atrocious. Here's what I replied:

Atrocious? WTF? So we've had top 10 defenses 3 out of 4 years here with atrocious personnel? Who were the studs who were carried over from the fabulous George Edwards regime? Lemme see...

We know Arrington never did squat. Smoot was here for 2004 but has not exactly been the Deion of this year's defense. Wynn chipped in with a stuff here and there but was merely a role player. Pierce? Yes, Pierce finally became someone under GW. He also hasn't been here since 2004.

So how have we been producing on defense since 2004? Probably because of COACHING and the PLAYERS who GW has brought in. Cornerstones like Taylor, Springs, Griffin, and Washington. Solid free agents/draft picks like Fletcher, McIntosh, Harris, Prioleau, Salavea, Carter, Phillips, Montgomery. Even the occasional street free agent who had never done a thing but produced here like Clark, Chris Wilson, Ron Warner. I know I'm forgetting some too. How do you in good conscience just sweep all these players under the rug?

.............................

Bottom line: Williams has made some mistakes, with letting Pierce walk chief among them. But that only hurt us badly for one season. And he found a replacement for him in LFB. The positives have far outweighed the negatives OVERALL which is the important thing to keep in mind rather than focusing on one or two misses.

Keep in mind that outside of 2006, the depth has been very good. We were hit hard by injuries in 2004 and lost key players again this year yet the defense didn't miss a beat.

[voicekiller]

Maybe so, but you have to admit, another reason to wait to announce Fassel if he's a done deal until after the Super Bowl is to allow the breathlessness to run out of steam a little. No matter how much we, as fans, are not really fans of Fassel, after 10 days or so of the story and presuming he's a possibility, there's only so much left to say at the time it's announced .

Could be, but people are still going to be as pissed off then as they are now

[aussieskin]

The only true indication of just how good our new head coach will be, will be at this time next season, 12 -3 is a big ask, not impossible but big, JG couldnt do it and I believe that could be one reason behind his going, we will just have to wait and see.

[SkinsFTW]

I think that those saying that Snyderato require a coaching staff who they can control, as if they are football gods who command unquestioned respect, are probably correct.

I am not so sure that GW would be a winning HC either, but why not give GW/AS a year with the same staff and players, with likely fewer injuries and deaths, to see if they could win without Gibbs?

Maybe it really was Gibbs' conservative 2nd half playcalling, or bad decisions like the kick on 1st down in the Miami game, or the 2 timeouts against Buffalo, etc that lost us all of those games that we held leads in.

We will never know now though and in our tough division a new staff and a typical offseason of not signing our own guys and overpaying for other teams players will likely mean we are a last place team again.

[SMOSS89]

Maybe so, but you have to admit, another reason to wait to announce Fassel if he's a done deal until after the Super Bowl is to allow the breathlessness to run out of steam a little. No matter how much we, as fans, are not really fans of Fassel, after 10 days or so of the story and presuming he's a possibility, there's only so much left to say at the time it's announced .

Yup, thats why Snyder will wait, to let everyone "cool off" (even though we'll still be pissed). And I agree with you, no one is gonna be happy. It really sucks because Fassel will be destroyed if he does even one thing wrong here. He will literally be given a season to win a division championship or else its all over and we get Cowher. I was really liking Snyder and now he's shown me he's back to his old ways and I think he should......*sigh*....sell the team. First time I've ever said that.

[DCsportsfan53]

I think that those saying that Snyderato require a coaching staff who they can control, as if they are football gods who command unquestioned respect, are probably correct.

I am not so sure that GW would be a winning HC either, but why not give GW/AS a year with the same staff and players, with likely fewer injuries and deaths, to see if they could win without Gibbs?

Maybe it really was Gibbs' conservative 2nd half playcalling, or bad decisions like the kick on 1st down in the Miami game, or the 2 timeouts against Buffalo, etc that lost us all of those games that we held leads in.

We will never know now though and in our tough division a new staff and a typical offseason of not signing our own guys and overpaying for other teams players will likely mean we are a last place team again.

Bingo. It's such a joke. Welcome to the Raiders - East. Only Snyderrato can't use Alzheimers as an excuse.

[BMahoney]

I think Williams lack of ability when picking players doomed him in the end. Great coordinator, bad head coach. Unfortunate, but probably true.

-I thought, Williams was all about getting McIntosh, and Landry both drafts picks have worked out quite well. Didn't he also lobby hard for Fletcher to come here this season? Outside Archuleta I can't recall many personnel mistakes williams made.

[Birdlives]

You are so far off it's not even funny. Clearly, you have some kind of anti-Williams bias but the sad thing is that it's obscured by your own inability to know the facts..

Actually I would have preferred Williams over anyone else. Again, I'm merely trying to infer why Williams isn't here anymore.

You can't be selective like this. Either you attribute every player to Williams or no players to Williams. One or the other. Sure, it's Gibbs who decides that they are going to pick Sean Taylor over Kellen Winslow. But who do you think decides that Laron Landry is better than Amobi Okoye? Williams.

Sorry, but I think I can. Nothing is ever absolute, except that The DC doesn't take precidence over the Owner, his talent guy and the HOF GM on draft picks. On the other side of that, he can offer input into FA signings. His first year here as DC we signed Barrow to fill that crucial MLB spot. Do you really think that was Snyder's doing? Not that tough.

Teams screw up the #1 overall pick about 50% of the time. There's never been a slam dunk and there never will be. Round 1 picks are easier than Round 4 picks but none of them are easy. If you knew just a little draft history you'd realize that..

Not worth responding to.

Wrong. Monty was a 5th rounder. Nice try. Did Butler cost us anything other than a plane ticket.

My mistake. So we wouldn't have Golston instead of Monty.

In another thread from 2 months ago, someone wrote that his handling of the personnel has been atrocious. Here's what I replied:

Atrocious? WTF? So we've had top 10 defenses 3 out of 4 years here with atrocious personnel? Who were the studs who were carried over from the fabulous George Edwards regime? Lemme see...

We know Arrington never did squat..

Really? How about a huge BS! Arrington had what, 13 sacks when he put his hand down? Obviously a player that could have been better dealt wth than he was.

Smoot was here for 2004 but has not exactly been the Deion of this year's defense.

But would have been valuable had we kept him. No one was asking him to be Deion, hence the signing of Springs. Not really a solid point.

Wynn chipped in with a stuff here and there but was merely a role player. Pierce? Yes, Pierce finally became someone under GW. He also hasn't been here since 2004.

And honestly, who do you think said, "we can live without him, let him go"?

So how have we been producing on defense since 2004? Probably because of COACHING and the PLAYERS who GW has brought in.

(Barrow, Wright, Butler, Holdman)

Cornerstones like Taylor, Springs, Griffin, and Washington. Solid free agents/draft picks like Fletcher, McIntosh, Harris, Prioleau, Salavea, Carter, Phillips, Montgomery. Even the occasional street free agent who had never done a thing but produced here like Clark, Chris Wilson, Ron Warner. I know I'm forgetting some too. How do you in good conscience just sweep all these players under the rug?

I'm sure he had everything to do with those guys and nothing to do with the stiffs we brought in .

I'm sure he was the only one evaluating talent and should get all the credit for street free agents and draft picks alike. You've taken the other side to the extreme. My only point was that perhaps, just perhaps the management didn't like his evaluations skills and you've turned it into Williams is responsible for every defensive draft pick and free agent we've ever had! So really, who's being selective?

.............................

Bottom line: Williams has made some mistakes, with letting Pierce walk chief among them. But that only hurt us badly for one season. And he found a replacement for him in LFB. The positives have far outweighed the negatives OVERALL which is the important thing to keep in mind rather than focusing on one or two misses.

Keep in mind that outside of 2006, the depth has been very good. We were hit hard by injuries in 2004 and lost key players again this year yet the defense didn't miss a beat.

Depth has NOT been very good, where have you been? Good depth = NOT the 29th best defense in 2006. That is what depth is all about.

Again and I reiterate. I'm not trying to bash Williams the DC. I'm merely offering up a rationale for the idea of Williams the Head Coach.

[The Sisko]

Wow Art. Coming from you this is nothing short of an out and out condemnation of our F.O. FWIW I think you captured where most of us are with this. I’m not as down on Fassel as you are, but I seriously doubt he could get us to a Super Bowl. In terms of the overall operation of the team I’m a bit more pessimistic than you are but hey, that’s no different than usual.

Your theory about Williams being “out interviewed” by virtue of not having made preparations is something I didn’t consider. Like all the other theories it’s certainly possible and very plausible. If true, Williams is as much to blame as Snyderatto since they seem to have been caught flat footed by Gibbs’ abrupt resignation as well.

Like you, I’ll continue to hope I’m wrong and that Snyderatto has learned a few things from Gibbs by osmosis. However, it sure as hell doesn’t look that way.

[Dirk Diggler]

Really? How about a huge BS! Arrington had what, 13 sacks when he put his hand down? Obviously a player that could have been better dealt wth than he was.

Point of that paragraph was that Williams was able to use very little of what he inherited in what was to become 3 top 10 defenses in the next 4 years. The 2003 defense had to be gutted and Williams was responsible for bringing in the new faces. And the most talented player (arrington) was barely contributing in 2004 and 2005 - either due to injury or his own inability to do what the coaches asked of him.

(Barrow, Wright, Butler, Holdman)

None of these guys were high profile players. 3 of them were supposed to be backups. And Barrow: a player who was injured and never saw the field - that's called bad luck which is a little different than whiffing on someone like Archuleta. Wright: was never supposed to start but did b/c Springs was injured. Butler was a #4/5 CB who was supposed to compete with Macklin. He was a fringe player who was a long shot to make the roster. Sheesh.

Are we really at the point where Williams is supposed to hit on every starter and every backup?

I'm sure he was the only one evaluating talent and should get all the credit for street free agents and draft picks alike. You've taken the other side to the extreme.

No, I'm saying that the buck stops with someone. Someone is ultimately responsible at the end of the day for what players are drafted and signed via free agency. Do you really think Williams would have stayed here for 4 years had he not had autonomy over personnel?

Depth has NOT been very good, where have you been? Good depth = NOT the 29th best defense in 2006. That is what depth is all about.

Depth good in 04, 05, 07. Depth not good in 06. Overall, it's safe to say that depth has been solid. Unless we're expecting perfection.

[Blondie]

I'm special. Rules don't apply to me .

There ya go again......with one of the nine thinking errors.

Art, I really don't think GW was ill prepared. If that were the case, I think, since there were four interviews, that he had to be prepared by number 3 or 4. Could it be that instead of being ill prepared maybe his strong personality became more evident as each interview happened.

I want this team to win. GW endeared himself to me.........especially in the last 2 months...very much. But endearing himself to the fans, does not a head coach make.

Following Gibbs.....even Gibbs 2........is going to be hard for any coach. When Gibbs left, Snyder said "the players would walk through a wall for this man." I am wondering if those words would have been said for GW. And I think about Fassel and those words and it makes me chuckle.

Time will tell. Winning changes perspective.

[BAFGA]

I believe as an organization we have shown too little loyalty and respect for what people have accomplished for us and too much for what someone else promises to accomplish. That is a flaw that has hurt the team over the years in my view.

I think what it all boiled down to was the bottom line. It may not be what truly was happening in the locker room and whatnot, but I think he saw 31-35 over the last 4 years and decided to blow it up and make a change.

Now, who is to say that whatever coach comes in won't want to bring his own Defensive Coordinator, and that Blache is just a seat filler until the real guy shows up?

[turbodiesel#44]

For me, Fassel ran undisciplined, inconsistent teams. Very Norv-esque, only with slightly larger balls. I do not believe he effectively helps a team that for the most part is defined by inconsistency. He's just not the coach I want here. I'll cheer for him if he's the coach I get, but, boy, I hope he doesn't do stupid things that make me crush him .

Plus, he's been out of the game for what, 3 years now? His last really good year was 8 years ago. He stunk it up in Baltimore in both '04 and '05. Really stunk, like bottom of the league. Fired mid-season. By his BFF. Even back with the Giants, he blew 2nd half leads regularly and is remembered not so fondly there for losing the team. Players just quit on him. He's been sitting on his ass for the last 2 years in a radio booth. I sincerely hope DS is serious about talking to the NE/NY guys. Williams would have been a much better HC choice than Fassel is, IMO.