All Things Boxing

[StillUnknown]

Don't get me wrong, I love a stacked undercard and it does help Mayweather's numbers. I believe you'd get close to the same numbers if Pacquiao was headlining those cards.

 

I only disagree because people don't hate Pac like they do Mayweather. People pay to see Mayweather lose, I don't get the sense that people buy Pac's PPV hoping to see him flatlined.

 

If it had been Pac who fought Canelo instead of Mayweather, it would have been a huge event, but it wouldn't touch 2mil buys.

 

If Pac couldn't get 2mil with De La Hoya, he won't touch 2mil unless its against Mayweather.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Pacquaio's last PPV fight bombed horribly, no question Mayweather is the #1 draw in the sport.  

 

Mayweather-Guerrero did between 900k-1 mil (no official numbers released but I have seen 930-950 a lot, Showtime claims 1 mil).

Pacquaio-Bradley is in the same boat as May-Guerrero, a lot of people say it did 700-750k buys, Top Rank claims 900k.

 

Including DLH, Mayweather's last 7 fights: 2.4 mil buys, 920k, 1.1 mil, 1.4 mil, 1.25 mil, 1.5 mil, 1 mi*, 2.2 mil 

Pac over that same time frame: 340k, 400k, 250k, 1.25 mil, 660k, 1.15 mil, 1.34 mil, 1.4 mil, 900k*, 1.15 mil, 475k 

 

I am 100% in favor of more Super-fight/UFC type cards.  I hate how boxing became about one big fight and trash undercards.  I think Pac-Bradley will be made and hopefully it sells.  The fight should push a mil but with Bob Arum who knows?  We'll probably get the fight in China at 9 AM with Zou Shimming headlining the card.

[DM72]

I have not heard anywhere close to $1,000,000 buys for Mayweather/Guerrero. And you act as if only Top Rank is gonna lie about the numbers. We know Floyd and GB would never do that. And what fights did Pac only do 250 and 350K?

Edited January 1, 2014 by DM72

[DM72]

I only disagree because people don't hate Pac like they do Mayweather. People pay to see Mayweather lose, I don't get the sense that people buy Pac's PPV hoping to see him flatlined. If it had been Pac who fought Canelo instead of Mayweather, it would have been a huge event, but it wouldn't touch 2mil buys. If Pac couldn't get 2mil with De La Hoya, he won't touch 2mil unless its against Mayweather.

One thing you have to remember is that when Pacquiao fought DLH he wasn't really a big star. That fight made Pacquiao. When Mayweather fought him, he was closer to his prime and Mayweather was a bigger star than Pacquiao. Plus, that fight was the debut of 24/7.

[Bubble Screen]

I don't know how peeps can admit to being a fan of FM, the way he ducked Pac like a little girl. Pac woulda destroyed that bamma.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

I have not heard anywhere close to $1,000,000 buys for Mayweather/Guerrero. And you act as if only Top Rank is gonna lie about the numbers. We know Floyd and GB would never do that. And what fights did Pac only do 250 and 350K?

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/9262663/floyd-mayweather-jr-robert-guerrero-exceeds-1-million-pay-per-view-buys

 

I made it clear that, that is what Showtime is claiming.  I doubt it really did 1 mil, hence the asterisk. Just like I found it fishy that the preliminary numbers for Bradley-Pac were 680-700 and it ended up doing 900+. All promotors lie about the numbers for sure but my personal opinion is that Bob Arum is the biggest crook/fraud running.  I hope Manny doesn't end up in jail or broke because of him.  Pac did 250K buys against David Diaz, and 340K against Barrera, the 2nd time.  

 

Hopefully the Cold War between Golden Boy/Al Haymon/Showtime and Bob Arum/Top Rank and HBO comes to an end soon.  Lots of great fights are being missed out on because of this nonsense.

[DM72]

Let's be fair, Pacquiao wasn't a big star when he fought Diaz and Barrera. I was talking bout his fights after he fought DLH.

[JoeWolf990]

I have not heard anywhere close to $1,000,000 buys for Mayweather/Guerrero. And you act as if only Top Rank is gonna lie about the numbers. We know Floyd and GB would never do that. And what fights did Pac only do 250 and 350K?

huh? you just sat here and advocated for weak undercards for Mayweather fights.

And now you are saying Showtime are fudging numbers (for the most part, they release the numbers, not Mayweather/GBP)?

It seems like you are just frustrated with this and arguing to argue at this point.

 

 

I don't know how peeps can admit to being a fan of FM, the way he ducked Pac like a little girl. Pac woulda destroyed that bamma.

please stay out of these conversations. You have nothing to add.

[Rexx1240]

If true, this is huge:

 

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/532516/20140102/manny-pacquiao-floyd-mayweather.htm#.UsTJK7TAjVo

[Rexx1240]

What was his numbers vs Guerrero? I believe they were in the 700,000 range. What was Pacquiao/Bradley? At the time, Bradley wasn't all that well known.

What you guys seem to don't understand is that Pacquiao is always the lone star on.his PPV's where as Mayweather is almost always is accompanied with a co-feature. Mosley, Alverez, Garcia, Matthysee have all fought on Mayweather undercards. And yes, they have all helped his numbers.

Again, let him fight Khan without a stacked undercard and then tell me he's a way bigger draw than Pacquiao.

 

I definitely understand your line of thinking but if you take the same undercard with Canelo-Floyd, and replace Floyd with Manny does Canelo and Manny do 2mil??

 

And even after Manny fought ODL, he fought people like Hatton, Cotto, Mosely, Marquez and the numbers still didn't get close to what Floyd did with these same guys.

 

Floyd always lets the Network (whether HBO or Showtime) release the numbers that they themselves tally. Even though the numbers don't have to be released, they make them public knowledge. Bob Arum prevents the networks from releasing any numbers and he tells the public whatever he wants. So who exactly sounds more like they're doing the fluff jobs here??

 

You can talk about undercards all you want. Yes they do add to the buzz but the main event is what people are paying for. Majority of the fighters on the undercard couldn't even do 250k by themselves as a headliner. So why, all of a sudden, do they just get this great star power when they coupled with Floyd?? Coincidence?? Do they really make that big of a difference in the numbers??

 

Put Manny in with Floyd's same opponents with the same undercards and you can honestly say he does the same numbers as Floyd??

Edited January 2, 2014 by T-REX1240

[JoeWolf990]

DM72 just doesnt like Floyd and cannot be objective in any take on Floyd. Its really discouraging.

[DM72]

DM72 just doesnt like Floyd and cannot be objective in any take on Floyd. Its really discouraging.

No, I'm not gonna allow myself to be hoodwinked by Floyd. I will admit, Floyd is the bigger star right now. We all know Pacquiao'avatar diminished since his loses to Bradley and JMM. BUT, before those loses, his numbers were just about as good as Floyd's and he had every right to ask for a 50/50 split if they fought.

I said it once and I'll say it again, I believe Floyd is a bit overrated as a draw. His drawing power greatly depends on who he's fighting. In other words, he's no Tyson or DLH. He is gonna have to have one hell of an undercard to sell a fight against Khan. If Alverez couldn't get the job done, we're to expect Khan can? Good luck convincing everyone of that.

You say I don't like Floyd. I've gotten EVERYONE of his fights dating back to his DLH fight. I didn't stream not one. If he fights Khan, I just might be sitting this one out.

[DM72]

If true, this is huge:

 

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/532516/20140102/manny-pacquiao-floyd-mayweather.htm#.UsTJK7TAjVo

 

But what if one of them loses in their next fight? If Pacquiao fights Floyd as a free agent in September, he better make damn sure he KO whoever he fights in April because I can see Arum pulling some BS.

[Rexx1240]

No, I'm not gonna allow myself to be hoodwinked by Floyd. I will admit, Floyd is the bigger star right now. We all know Pacquiao'avatar diminished since his loses to Bradley and JMM. BUT, before those loses, his numbers were just about as good as Floyd's and he had every right to ask for a 50/50 split if they fought.

 

Are you serious? Paq has only fought once since those losses and yes by all accounts his ppv numbers were nothing short of terrible in that fight. But even before the losses he wasn't getting no where near the numbers Floyd was getting which is why he definitely didn't deserve 50/50. Now if I were Floyd, I probably would have given him the 50% split just to make the fight but hey, that's just me. But to say they were almost equal in terms of ppv revenue is complete bologna dude. Now I know you will point to that undercard nonsense but u have to answer honestly:

 

--Would Manny have pulled that 2mil with Canelo or at least 1.5 with Cotto even if he had the same card as Floyd did?

--Please provide links that validate your claim to Manny's "great" ppv numbers

[DM72]

Are you serious? Paq has only fought once since those losses and yes by all accounts his ppv numbers were nothing short of terrible in that fight. But even before the losses he wasn't getting no where near the numbers Floyd was getting which is why he definitely didn't deserve 50/50. Now if I were Floyd, I probably would have given him the 50% split just to make the fight but hey, that's just me. But to say they were almost equal in terms of ppv revenue is complete bologna dude. Now I know you will point to that undercard nonsense but u have to answer honestly:

 

--Would Manny have pulled that 2mil with Canelo or at least 1.5 with Cotto even if he had the same card as Floyd did?

--Please provide links that validate your claim to Manny's "great" ppv numbers

 

I did do a quick look at Pac's post DLH numbers and they were very comparable to Mays. I believe it was you who pointed out some of Pac's numbers before DLH, now do the same with May. What were exactly his numbers pre DLH. Again, May's number on average is better, but Pac's are pretty damn good too.

 

And another thing you fail to see. Pacquiao is a MUCH bigger global star than Mayweather. From what I understand, international numbers aren't available most of the time.

Edited January 2, 2014 by DM72

[Rexx1240]

I did do a quick look at Pac's post DLH numbers and they were very comparable to Mays. I believe it was you who pointed out some of Pac's numbers before DLH, now do the same with May. What were exactly his numbers pre DLH.

 

And another thing you fail to see. Pacquiao is a MUCH bigger global star than Mayweather.

 

We can argue the numbers all day long. The bottom line is the fact that Floyd is the biggest ppv star in the history of the sport. He's generated the most revenue, the highest live gate, and the most ppv buys of any fighter period. Paq could never make a claim like that. He'll always have to settle for 2nd and the crazy thing is, Floyd has these records while only fighting an average of once per year while Manny almost always fights twice. But add all of Floyds ppv numbers and all Manny's and you'll see why I argue that Manny didn't earn that 50/50 split he demanded. Manny has damn near twice the number of fights Floyd has yet Floyd still has generated more total ppv numbers than Manny. There is no comparison my friend.

 

Also, you can blame the "undercard" all you want but that's not Floyd's fault that Arum doesn't know how to put a card together. He's been in the business far too long not to not how to maximize his profits. No, he'd rather cheat Paq out of his money instead.

 

And I'm sorry that I've failed to see that Paq is the "MUCH" bigger global star as you say. I'm so so very very sorry about that. Silly me for looking at total ppv numbers as a way to gauge who is the biggest star. I'll try to keep that fact in mind next time I post anything about Mr. Global Icon Emmanual Pacquiao.

[DM72]

We can argue the numbers all day long. The bottom line is the fact that Floyd is the biggest ppv star in the history of the sport. He's generated the most revenue, the highest live gate, and the most ppv buys of any fighter period. Paq could never make a claim like that. He'll always have to settle for 2nd and the crazy thing is, Floyd has these records while only fighting an average of once per year while Manny almost always fights twice. But add all of Floyds ppv numbers and all Manny's and you'll see why I argue that Manny didn't earn that 50/50 split he demanded. Manny has damn near twice the number of fights Floyd has yet Floyd still has generated more total ppv numbers than Manny. There is no comparison my friend.

 

Also, you can blame the "undercard" all you want but that's not Floyd's fault that Arum doesn't know how to put a card together. He's been in the business far too long not to not how to maximize his profits. No, he'd rather cheat Paq out of his money instead.

 

And I'm sorry that I've failed to see that Paq is the "MUCH" bigger global star as you say. I'm so so very very sorry about that. Silly me for looking at total ppv numbers as a way to gauge who is the biggest star. I'll try to keep that fact in mind next time I post anything about Mr. Global Icon Emmanual Pacquiao.

 

He might have more fights than May, but neither one of them were huge stars until they fought DLH. Mayweather was a star when he fought him, but Pac was nowhere near a household name. Hell, he was a big underdog in that fight.

 

I'm not blaming the undercard of May's PPV's. I'm just stating the facts. Again, we'll see just how much a PPV draw he is if this fight with Khan isn't stacked with a great undercard. I'm a boxing PPV junky and I probably won't be getting it.

 

And tell me why Pac's international appeal should not be included? International numbers don't count?

[Rexx1240]

He might have more fights than May, but neither one of them were huge stars until they fought DLH. Mayweather was a star when he fought him, but Pac was nowhere near a household name. Hell, he was a big underdog in that fight.

 

I'm not blaming the undercard of May's PPV's. I'm just stating the facts. Again, we'll see just how much a PPV draw he is if this fight with Khan isn't stacked with a great undercard. I'm a boxing PPV junky and I probably won't be getting it.

 

And tell me why Pac's international appeal should not be included? International numbers don't count?

 

Before ODH, Pac's ppv numbers were better than Floyd's. Both of them took off after ODH but Floyd far exceeded Manny. Also, Floyd was the underdog in the ODH fight. Plus, I don't get this notion of International numbers are not counted. They are definitely counted. Not just for boxing but for all sports including UFC. They are counted my friend. Otherwise, Floyd wouldn't choose stars to fight like Hatton or Cotto that have countries behind them. Total business decision by Floyd and his team. Nothing to do with the fighter, everything to do with their supporters. Honestly, Floyd knows Khan isn't worthy of that payday he's about to give him but why Khan?? Because he knows he'll pull in beautiful numbers because of the International support he'll get on Khan's behalf.

Edited January 2, 2014 by T-REX1240

[DM72]

I think you need to look it up because I'm pretty sure May was the favored against DLH. Manny on the other hand was a HUGE underdog. And you really think the real reason he's considering Khan is because he'll bring in a ton of Brits? I'm not so sure Khan is THAT popular over there. He's not the British alternative to Mexico's Saul Alverez. He fight Khan May 3 and he"ll see 700,000 buys. Then he might be "forced" into fighting Pac. 

[Rexx1240]

I think you need to look it up because I'm pretty sure May was the favored against DLH. Manny on the other hand was a HUGE underdog. And you really think the real reason he's considering Khan is because he'll bring in a ton of Brits? I'm not so sure Khan is THAT popular over there. He's not the British alternative to Mexico's Saul Alverez. He fight Khan May 3 and he"ll see 700,000 buys. Then he might be "forced" into fighting Pac. 

 

DM my man, you throw me off sometimes. First off even if Floyd wasn't the underdog, he fought under Oscar's stipulations. Oscar picked glove size, ring size, etc but most importantly, Oscar made Floyd step up to his weight class to get every clear advantage possible. He outweighed Floyd by more than 10lbs on fight night. Plus Oscar walked away with the lion's share of the purse.

 

When Oscar fought Manny, they forced Oscar to come down to a weight he hadn't fought at in years!! Manny actually weighed more than Oscar on fight night. Bob Arum made certain Manny had every clear advantage in that fight. Roach even admitted he saw I.V. marks on Oscar's arms during the fight. Which means he was clearly drained.  Plus on top of all that, Manny got the lion's share of the purse. 

 

So who really should have been underdogs here??

 

And yes, if you do your homework you'll see that Khan is the biggest fighter in the UK since Ricky Hatton. But Khan has a much bigger US fan base than did Hatton PLUS Khan has Pakistanians behind him as well. 

[DM72]

Pacquiao came up 2 weight classes and DLH went down 1 and I believe DLH was still the bigger man in that fight. And I find it laughable that a Mayweather fan would talk about another fighter's demands. Just look up May/JMM. What did he outweigh JMM by on fight night? 

 

They may hate each other, but Mayweather and Arum could be father and son.

[DM72]

Plus on top of all that, Manny got the lion's share of the purse. 

 

Where are you getting some of your info from?

 

De La Hoya 20M 

Pacquiao 6M

 

http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-guaranteed-20m-pacquiao-guaranteed-6m--17312

Edited January 2, 2014 by DM72

[Rexx1240]

Pacquiao came up 2 weight classes and DLH went down 1 and I believe DLH was still the bigger man in that fight. And I find it laughable that a Mayweather fan would talk about another fighter's demands. Just look up May/JMM. What did he outweigh JMM by on fight night? 

 

They may hate each other, but Mayweather and Arum could be father and son.

 

On fight night Paq easily passed the welterweight limit weighing in at 148.5

ODH barely made it coming in at 147 on the nose.

Where are you getting some of your info from?

 

De La Hoya 20M 

Pacquiao 6M

 

http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-guaranteed-20m-pacquiao-guaranteed-6m--17312

 

Yes, I stand corrected on the purse split there. My apologies for that mistake. The other facts are accurate and undisputable by anybody.

[DM72]

But DLH weighed more at the weigh-in.

 

Ya boy Mayweather fought JMM at a catchweight and still weighed over the limit.

Edited January 2, 2014 by DM72

[Rexx1240]

But DLH weighed more at the weigh-in.

 

Ya boy Mayweather fought JMM at a catchweight and still weighed over the limit.

 

The weigh in means little to nothing because fighters just rehydrate on the day of the fight. Canelo was only 1.5 lbs heavier than Floyd at the weigh in but actually multiplied that gap by 10x on the night of the fight.

 

Marquez demanded the catchweight and Floyd definitely payed his penalty for being over weight but honestly dude, that fight was a complete one-sided domination. Do you honestly think if Floyd was 2lbs lighter there would have been a difference??