..::Poll::.. Health care and the movie sicko.

[Destino]

I recently ended up watching Moore's sicko again at a friends house and laughed at the difference in opinions before watching it and then after. So I want to ask you guys...

wait for the poll.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Health care in this country stinks... my opinions were the same both before and after viewing the movie. Although, I was shocked at how good health care is in other countries.

[rincewind]

Why does the enjoyment of cake have to be mutually exclusive to my feelings on health care and Michael Moore?

[PleaseBlitz]

I voted No I did not watch Sicko. US health care needs serious work.

It needs work, but some aspects of it are the best in the world. Its not cheap, it doesnt cover everyone and all that, but if you have something wrong with you, you cant find better doctors to fix you than in the US.

Edit: All polls should be public.

[Destino]

I voted No I did not watch Sicko. US health care needs serious work.

It needs work, but some aspects of it are the best in the world. Its not cheap, it doesnt cover everyone and all that, but if you have something wrong with you, you cant find better doctors to fix you than in the US.

Edit: All polls should be public.

The biggest problems that sicko exposes about America's health care system is the fact that as soon as you get a serious health condition your insurance company tries to find a way to drop you. When you are at your lowest there is someone working hard to destroy you.

Other then that the movie is mostly a infomercial for socialized medicine.

Oh... the Nixon scene where health insurance basically started in this country is good, but who didn't know Nixon was an evil SoB?

[Destino]

Why does the enjoyment of cake have to be mutually exclusive to my feelings on health care and Michael Moore?

Because cake is bad for you.

[Predicto]

Health care in this country stinks... my opinions were the same both before and after viewing the movie. Although, I was shocked at how good health care is in other countries.

Moore blatantly overstates how good it is in Cuba.

For people who hate Moore, that is enough to allow them shut their ears and ignore that our own system truly sucks and needs serious work.

[.Guy.]

well if you got money its all good than right?

[SkinInsite]

well if you got money its all good than right?

Pretty much

[Blackest Eyes]

well if you got money its all good than right?

That is the way it seems. This country is getting close to having zero middle class.

[Destino]

Moore blatantly overstates how good it is in Cuba.

For people who hate Moore, that is enough to allow them shut their ears and ignore that our own system truly sucks and needs serious work.

What I find shocking is that health care has managed to stay out of the moral realm. It's very clearly a moral issue. The first thing many people do when someone we know is taken to the hospital is what? Pray. When a person is denied life saving treatment because the health care company reviews their application and finds the smallest of loopholes, even if unrelated... we just keep praying. We don't make the connection.

[PleaseBlitz]

As to the poll, i think everyone can agree that it needs serious work, but how many huge industries are perfect the way they are?

The question is what direction to take. I dont know enough about the subject to answer that, and i have a feeling that watching a Micheal Moore movie would make me even less qualified to answer.

[IONTOP]

What I find shocking is that health care has managed to stay out of the moral realm. It's very clearly a moral issue. The first thing many people do when someone we know is taken to the hospital is what? Pray. When a person is denied life saving treatment because the health care company reviews their application and finds the smallest of loopholes, even if unrelated... we just keep praying. We don't make the connection.

Are you saying that being religious is a reason for your healthcare company to drop you?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I voted No I did not watch Sicko. US health care needs serious work.

It needs work, but some aspects of it are the best in the world. Its not cheap, it doesnt cover everyone and all that, but if you have something wrong with you, you cant find better doctors to fix you than in the US.

Edit: All polls should be public.

Basically my answer

[bobisimo]

I've always been under the impression that, as a business, the US Health Care system has it right by doing their best to save/make money. Of course, that is not in the best interests of the people in need of health care. Saw the movie. Enjoyed it for what it was. Continue to believe that the US system is very flawed - especially after spending seven years in Canada. That's why I support politicians like Mike Gravel who desire Universal Health Care.

[Predicto]

As to the poll, i think everyone can agree that it needs serious work, but how many huge industries are perfect the way they are?

The question is what direction to take. I dont know enough about the subject to answer that, and i have a feeling that watching a Micheal Moore movie would make me even less qualified to answer.

Some industries are less perfect than others. Our health care system is probably the worst major industry we have in the US as far as cost/efficiency, not to mention accessability. It is not designed for market forces to work. Actually it is not designed at all, it just happened over time, like a cancer. Its primary attribute is maximum revenue to insurance companies and lawyers rather than to actual health care costs.

The best thing to do is to look at what other countries are doing, adopt the system that seems best, and tweak it to fix the deficiencies that said system appears to possess. For example, if Canada's single payer system isn't good enough, then don't follow that one, even though Michael Moore loves it. France's system is much better and more cost efficient - let's go that route instead, and adapt it to our needs.

It could be done, but not if the lobbyists for the insurance industry have their way.

[Destino]

As to the poll, i think everyone can agree that it needs serious work, but how many huge industries are perfect the way they are?

The question is what direction to take. I dont know enough about the subject to answer that, and i have a feeling that watching a Micheal Moore movie would make me even less qualified to answer.

The business side of me says the first course of action would be to examine the way other nations of similar economic stength handle it. They all seem to go with socialized care. Another would be to ask - if it wasn't for the millions health care companies spent lobbying... what would leaders do if simply asked to solve the problem without any self interest. I don't think the current system would be their response.

[ImmortalDragon]

Why is socialized care the only response whenever healthcare is brought up? Even the republicans can't come up with a response to it outside of "lol karl marx."

[Destino]

Why is socialized care the only response whenever healthcare is brought up? Even the republicans can't come up with a response to it outside of "lol karl marx."

There are four options that I know of.

1 - The status quo. Health as a business. Profit is made by reducing costs and thus there is an incentive to deny or reduce care. Personally I think this system is a dangerous failure.

2 - Socialized health care. Government provided care. The problem here is the problem government have always had - they are not efficient. Care is provided but there are questions as to the supply of professionals and the quality of care.

3 - Health savings accounts. Health as a planned for expense. While this makes a lot of sense a quick look at the costs of health care make me doubt this as a viable option. Compare the value of 401k's people hold to the cost of healthcare should something serious occur. This looks to me like a bandaid solution aimed more at reducing the costs to insurance providers (some of which may be passed on to us).

4 - Health insurance transformed into not for profit. Take the profit incentive out of the health care industry. Companies that exist not to generate large sums of money but instead simply planning so they can expand and keep their doors open. The problem here is how to set it up, how to police it, and it may still suffer from government type problems of inefficiency.

Personally I think the profit motive has been a massive failure for the bottom half of the population. I think it's created a system that rocketed up prices that is now on the path to sure failure. Health care is not a luxary care or a big house, it is quality of life and life itself. People can pretend that health care is a luxary but I think that as the problem gets worse the current system is doomed to fail because once the middle class starts to really suffer, they will vote an end to it.

[ImmortalDragon]

There are four options that I know of....

The status quo is not health as a business, its more like business using government to take advantage of people. There is nothing wrong with making money, its when the government gets involved the problems begin. Not once did you mention getting government out of this medical arena.

Here's four pieces of legislation that were introduced last year into Congress, IMO this is the way to go:

HR 3075 provides truly comprehensive health care reform by allowing families to claim a tax credit for the rising cost of health insurance premiums. With many families now spending close to $1000 or even more for their monthly premiums, they need real tax relief-- including a dollar-for-dollar credit for every cent they spend on health care premiums-- to make medical care more affordable.

HR 3076 is specifically designed to address the medical malpractice crisis that threatens to drive thousands of American doctors- especially obstetricians- out of business. The bill provides a dollar-for-dollar tax credit that permits consumers to purchase "negative outcomes" insurance prior to undergoing surgery or other serious medical treatments. Negative outcomes insurance is a novel approach that guarantees those harmed receive fair compensation, while reducing the burden of costly malpractice litigation on the health care system. Patients receive this insurance payout without having to endure lengthy lawsuits, and without having to give away a large portion of their award to a trial lawyer. This also drastically reduces the costs imposed on physicians and hospitals by malpractice litigation. Under HR 3076, individuals can purchase negative outcomes insurance at essentially no cost.

HR 3077 makes it more affordable for parents to provide health care for their children. It creates a $500 per child tax credit for medical expenses and prescription drugs that are not reimbursed by insurance. It also creates a $3,000 tax credit for dependent children with terminal illnesses, cancer, or disabilities. Parents who are struggling to pay for their children's medical care, especially when those children have serious health problems or special needs, need every extra dollar.

HR 3078 is commonsense, compassionate legislation for those suffering from cancer or other terminal illnesses. The sad reality is that many patients battling serious illnesses will never collect Social Security benefits-- yet they continue to pay into the Social Security system. When facing a medical crisis, those patients need every extra dollar to pay for medical care, travel, and family matters. HR 3078 waives the employee portion of Social Security payroll taxes (or self-employment taxes) for individuals with documented serious illnesses or cancer. It also suspends Social Security taxes for primary caregivers with a sick spouse or child. There is no justification or excuse for collecting Social Security taxes from sick individuals who literally are fighting for their lives.

[ATV]

Notice that there are no votes in the "Yes I saw Sicko. US health is the best in the world!" category. It's a great movie.

[Predicto]

The problem is the politicizing of the issue by everyone. The choice is not between capitalism and socialism. Our current system is not capitalism in action, and rejecting it does not mean that we have to engage in pure socialism.

The French healthcare approach is miles away from the Canadian approach, but both are lumped together as "raar - socialism BAD!" In fact, any change is "Raar Socialism Bad!!!!" if you ask Sean Hannity. Meanwhile, our current system is "Raar Corporate Fascism Bad!!!" if you ask Michael Moore, ignoring that there are some aspects of our system that we don't want to give up (the quality at the high end).

We should appoint a blue ribbon commission to examine all the options. Problem is, any such commission probably would be stacked with people who benefit from the status quo.

[Ellis]

The only problem I have with the US health Care system is that EVERYTHING is overpriced. Most of the over-pricing has entirely to do with doctors and hospitals padding the charges for their own insurance reasons--like potential lawsuits.

Before the health Care System is dismantled and made public, there must be more work done about frivilous lawsuits that force doctors to raise charges in an effort to battle the lawsuits. Health Care could be a lot cheaper in the long run.

Also... the Pharmeceuticals industry needs an overall.

[Predicto]

The only problem I have with the US health Care system is that EVERYTHING is overpriced. Most of the over-pricing has entirely to do with doctors and hospitals padding the charges for their own insurance reasons--like potential lawsuits.

Before the health Care System is dismantled and made public, there must be more work done about frivilous lawsuits that force doctors to raise charges in an effort to battle the lawsuits. Health Care could be a lot cheaper in the long run.

Also... the Pharmeceuticals industry needs an overall.

I think that the biggest cost is that there is an entire second level of administration and profit making between the health care and the consumer - the insurance company. That entity does not compete with anyone and has no real incentive to keep prices down. In fact, they have an incentive to keep prices UP to maximize their profit margin.

[ImmortalDragon]

I think that the biggest cost is that there is an entire second level of administration and profit making between the health care and the consumer - the insurance company. That entity does not compete with anyone and has no real incentive to keep prices down. In fact, they have an incentive to keep prices UP to maximize their profit margin.

Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan