Going for it on 4th Down

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

I could swear it was that pick in the last 2 minute of the game that changed it all. It was not the kick. Damn JC should have a ran on that play. I think there is already a thread on that as well.

It is better to be down by 5 then by 8.

Oh but since you are going to nit-pick on just one call - which is pretty stupid IMO - it was the blown coverages on TO that sealed the game for the Cowpukes. So going for it on this play is actually really irrelevant.

It is also possible I might have been watching a totally different game.:doh:

Am I nit-picking over one call, or am I talking about a trend that's been prevalent for 3 and a half years with this staff. I think I've been pretty clear about that, and I think the VAST majority of other posters in this thread agree, yet you think its ME who is stupid. By the way good argument. Its always nice to resort to saying things like "which is pretty stupid" when you lack a legitimate argument. Disagree with me all you want. I'm fine with that. Calling my point stupid, well, I would hope you're above that.

[Gary Clark Fan]

should of gone for it......it was 4th and inches...the odds of making a 50 yarder arent greater then picking up inches....dissapointed in gibbs YET AGAIN

[Redskinloyal_1]

I agree totally that was a chicken s*** call. We have had those kind of calls all year and it has hurt us in the standings. We need a coach who is young and not afraid of taking a minimal risk.

A girl could of called that play right. Not gibbs though he loves to lose by a couple of points every game.

[Darth Tater]

Say we sneak, JC fumbles the snap and the ball goes the other way for 6.

It is much more likely that a 50-yard FG attempt is blocked and returned for 6 the other way. The downside risk of attempting the FG was much higher than the downside risk of going for it. The payoff for going for it was higher than attempting the FG. The value of going for it on 4-1 at the oppnents 33 is somewhere between 2 and 3 while the value of attempting a 50 yard FG is less than 1. Its not like the FG is a sure thing, any possible bad things that could have happened going for it could just have likely happened on the FG attempt. Since these cancel each other out, we just have to consider the field position we would give if there is failure, the FACT that you're more likely to make a 4th and 1 try than a 50 yard FG and the upside value of success in either case. Now, if we were inside the 23 and outside the 15 (or you need 3 anyway) in the same situation, the FG try would have been the proper call.

Are you the first one on here saying we should have just tried the field goal because Suisham's pretty good and even if we miss, the Boys still have to work their way down the field to get points?

No, I've never criticized the result of a call, only its quality. In most cases, it is difficult to analyze the quality of a call versus just judging results. Here, it's easy here. Had it been a chip-shot or it had been 4 and more than 1, you couldn't crticize the quality of the call.

[BigMike619]

hands down we should have gone for it on 4th down. Suisham is not automatic or even close to it outside of 40 yards and we just ended up giving them the ball back at the same spot anyways.

[NomadicSkinFan]

This tells me you don't know your history.

texas stadium has been a kicker friendly place. Games are close, and many times the skins win on FG's.

Normally, I agree that on 4th and 1 from the 40 or closer, we need to probably go for it (In fact, 4th and 3 from the 40 should be going for it. The risk is only 20 yards.)

However -Yesterday, the call was right. There have been many Redskins cowboy games where the skins won by making 4 of 5 FG's.

In fact -If he make that kick, skins win yesterday by kicking a easy FG at the end.

I couldn't disagree more. You can't factor in the stadium and not the team you are playing. Dallas has a very potent offense. If you have any chance to beat them, then you need to dictate the game. If we had gone for in on 4th down and made a TD, then we would have had a sizable lead and could have afforded to take more risks on defense. We had Romo sits to pee off his game at that point, and us taking a low percentage shot at 3 points (and missing) is EXACTLY what Dallas needed to gain confidence. We have allowed every single team in our division to take a game because of these types of cowardly calls.

This is not hindsight speaking or Monday morning QBing. I'm willing to bet that the majority of posters on this board were screaming at the TV when the saw the FG unit come on. I was not upset with the later call for the fieldgoal, but that first one shot our confidence and gave Dallas a boost. The is the exact opposite of what teams trying to win a game do. We now have plenty of history that demonstrates that this simply doesn't work. And Gibbs still doesn't see it.

[skins4eva]

I couldn't disagree more. You can't factor in the stadium and not the team you are playing. Dallas has a very potent offense. If you have any chance to beat them, then you need to dictate the game. If we had gone for in on 4th down and made a TD, then we would have had a sizable lead and could have afforded to take more risks on defense. We had Romo sits to pee off his game at that point, and us taking a low percentage shot at 3 points (and missing) is EXACTLY what Dallas needed to gain confidence. We have allowed every single team in our division to take a game because of these types of cowardly calls.

This is not hindsight speaking or Monday morning QBing. I'm willing to bet that the majority of posters on this board were screaming at the TV when the saw the FG unit come on. I was not upset with the later call for the fieldgoal, but that first one shot our confidence and gave Dallas a boost. The is the exact opposite of what teams trying to win a game do. We now have plenty of history that demonstrates that this simply doesn't work. And Gibbs still doesn't see it.

The FG was absolutely the wrong call there--no way to defend it.

[NomadicSkinFan]

I seem to remember everyone downing Barry Switzer for going on 4th and even firing him for thr 4th and 1 call, your a genuis if it works. Had Gibbs gone for it and missed, and dallas scores fans woulb be crying Gibbs an idiot after that fact

We're not talking about a 4th and 1 from the Dallas 20. That was a 50 yard fieldgoal. If it had been 40-45, I wouldn't have been nearly as upset. But we took a low percentage FG try instead of pounding into a defense that had shown no ability to stop us. Dallas was most definately thankful for that decision.

[Rufus T Firefly]

(I didn't read all the messages in this thread, so forgive if I'm repeating someone else)

The mistakes in both situations, imo, came before the 4th down call.

In the first half, we had 3rd and 3 on the Dallas 34. Someone has to realize that the odds of Portis running up the middle for the first down are slim, and that the odds of a 50 yard field goal aren't very good either (with the added negative of giving a struggling Dallas O too much field position). Basically, the coaches had two good options available: 1. Throw for the first and, if you don't make it, punt to pin Dallas deep ( I wouldn't mind throwing again on 4th down, either). 2. Run it, knowing that you'll run again on 4th down if you get close. Really, I think they chose the worst possible sequence of calls there.

In the 4th Quarter, we had 2nd and 1 at the Dallas 26. I think they made the right call in trying to catch Dallas off guard and throwin one towards the end zone. But, I think ONE of those two plays has to be a run. You really have to give Portis one shot to get us a yard there.

[DaBoys84]

As a Boys fan, I was breathing a sigh of relief when Gibbs decided to kick instead of going for it on 4th. The way the Skins were playing, I didn't think we'd be able to stop it.

It was a similar call from Wade against the Pats when Dallas kicked a FG instead of going for it on 4th. Teams and coaches that want to win, they go for it.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I couldn't disagree more. You can't factor in the stadium and not the team you are playing. Dallas has a very potent offense. If you have any chance to beat them, then you need to dictate the game. If we had gone for in on 4th down and made a TD, then we would have had a sizable lead and could have afforded to take more risks on defense. We had Romo sits to pee off his game at that point, and us taking a low percentage shot at 3 points (and missing) is EXACTLY what Dallas needed to gain confidence. We have allowed every single team in our division to take a game because of these types of cowardly calls.

This is not hindsight speaking or Monday morning QBing. I'm willing to bet that the majority of posters on this board were screaming at the TV when the saw the FG unit come on. I was not upset with the later call for the fieldgoal, but that first one shot our confidence and gave Dallas a boost. The is the exact opposite of what teams trying to win a game do. We now have plenty of history that demonstrates that this simply doesn't work. And Gibbs still doesn't see it.

Absolutely. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can promise you I never come here and criticize a decision unless I was against it as it happened. If I think Gibbs (or whomever) made the right call and it doesn't work, I won't say anything critical of it here and would actually defend him against others who do.

[Hail Gibbs]

I didn't understand this decision at all. I have to think the odds of gaining a yard are better than Suisham making a 50+ yd FG. Dallas turns around and scores a TD. Similar thing happened last week, Skins drive right down the field to open the 2nd half and then we kick it on 4th and short from inside the 5. Philly turns right around scores a TD and takes the momentum for the rest of the game. Instead of building on momentum we just hand it over to the opponent.

[Year_of_The_Monk]

I say, if its reasonable go for it. esp. on 4th and 1, no brainer.

[myzhi]

Even though it pissed me off, I know JG would go for the FG. He's still stuck in the 80's where 10-14 pt lead was huge in days of smash mouth football and milking the clock. These days, it's nothing with teams spreading you out and throwing left & right.

[kevin11]

Its the cowboys. They had alot better d-line then our o-line. This cowboys team shut us down in the running game.

Remember last year?

We went for it on 4th down and we couldnt even get a yard against them. The boys have the best front 7 in the NFC at stopping the run.

If they stopped us, could you imagine what kind of momentum that would give the boys? 4th and 1 is not a gimme. 4th and 1 in the NFL now is just as tough as a 3rd and 5.

[kevin11]

Absolutely. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can promise you I never come here and criticize a decision unless I was against it as it happened. If I think Gibbs (or whomever) made the right call and it doesn't work, I won't say anything critical of it here and would actually defend him against others who do.

What Happens if he didnt get it?

[skins4eva]

What Happens if he didnt get it?

Then we don't deserve to win. If you can't pick up one yard with a 6'5 QB against a 3-4 defense then you don't deserve to win. But, I would have been fine with the decision.

[Rufus T Firefly]

What Happens if he didnt get it?

Did you read what I said on this subject? Doesn't appear so.

If you're talking about the one in the first half, if we don't make it on 4th down, then the worst case scenario is the Cowboys have to drive 8 more yards for the TD they got anyway.

In the second half, I didn't think we should have gone for it, just that we should have tried one run after it was 2nd and 1. If we went for it on 4th down (again, I'm not saying we should have), then our last drive we would have needed a TD and 2 point conversion to tie rather than just a TD to win.

[The Full Monty]

Look - if we were playing terribly on offense and the Cowboys were stoning our passing game - then I'd have been okay with the field goal attempt.

But we were doing very, very well on offense and it was one yard that Campbell would've gotten easily. That could've been huge for our momentum. 50 yards even in domes are no gimmes.

[skins4eva]

Look - if we were playing terribly on offense and the Cowboys were stoning our passing game - then I'd have been okay with the field goal attempt.

But we were doing very, very well on offense and it was one yard that Campbell would've gotten easily. That could've been huge for our momentum. 50 yards even in domes are no gimmes.

Exactly, another reason the decision cannot be supported. Our offense was moving the ball all over on them.

[Sticksboi05]

That play changed the game. It gave Dallas life and momentum.

[kevin11]

Did you read what I said on this subject? Doesn't appear so.

If you're talking about the one in the first half, if we don't make it on 4th down, then the worst case scenario is the Cowboys have to drive 8 more yards for the TD they got anyway.

In the second half, I didn't think we should have gone for it, just that we should have tried one run after it was 2nd and 1. If we went for it on 4th down (again, I'm not saying we should have), then our last drive we would have needed a TD and 2 point conversion to tie rather than just a TD to win.

I thought the field goal goes from where the LOS. Same spot as the spot on the 4th down.

I dont think you can critize Gibbs for kicking the field goal. If he made that, we are up by 3. If we go for it and dont make it, we get nothing. Yes, we missed.

Sorry, I dont find it useful to critize our coach for messing up on one play. Hindsight is 20/20.

[skins4eva]

I thought the field goal goes from where the LOS. Same spot as the spot on the 4th down.

I dont think you can critize Gibbs for kicking the field goal. If he made that, we are up by 3. If we go for it and dont make it, we get nothing. Yes, we missed.

Sorry, I dont find it useful to critize our coach for messing up on one play. Hindsight is 20/20.

Criticizing that call has nothing to do with hindsight--it was the wrong call period! And it would have been the wrong call even if we made it. When you miss the field goal, the ball is spotted from where it was kicked, 7 yards back, not the LOS.

[kevin11]

Look - if we were playing terribly on offense and the Cowboys were stoning our passing game - then I'd have been okay with the field goal attempt.

But we were doing very, very well on offense and it was one yard that Campbell would've gotten easily. That could've been huge for our momentum. 50 yards even in domes are no gimmes.

1 yard is not a gimme against a defense like the boys. (against the run, at least)

Gibbs went for it last year against the boys on the 1 yard line, we didnt get it bc our o-line couldn't even get any push.

I wanted to go for it, but I realize why we go for a field goal. You take the points. He learned his lesson on IMHO lost us the eagles game(2pt, a extra point)

You take the easier pts. Our team was not owning the boys up front and they were destroying our guards and centers.

[kevin11]

Criticizing that call has nothing to do with hindsight--it was the wrong call period! And it would have been the wrong call even if we made it. When you miss the field goal, the ball is spotted from where it was kicked, 7 yards back, not the LOS.

k, didnt know that.