Why is slavery wrong?

[PeterMP]

Man, you can't discuss things that are so painful to some people and think "Hey wouldn't it be fun to dig up these old scabs?".

You have the option to not participate in the discussion if it is to painful for you. Several other African Americans have participated in this and other similar discussion w/o resorting to calling people idiots.

[thedoc4454]

I have in the past been a willing love slave to a few women, and in retrospect I really don't regret a minute of it.

[Zguy28]

Thanks guys for trying to keep this on track.

Playboy1972, apologies if it stirred up some deep wounds. No intent on that I assure you.

Predicto, you and EA pointed out that I am likely trying to advance my Christian worldview through discussing human rights. There is truth to that. But it honestly was about 10% of the intention of this thread.

The other 90% was to stir discussion, and to genuinely find out what people base their core values on, whether that's secular humanism, evolution, the Bible etc.

It was mostly to get people to examine themselves on these issues because its important to know why you believe something.

Plus it helps me in evangelizing you heathens if I know how you think. :halo: (that was a joke. Ok, maybe not... )

[Corcaigh]

A joke I remember from when I was growing up ... in the time when Apartheid was still in force in South Africa.

Woman in market buying fruit says: "Are these oranges from South Africa?"

Market vendor replies: " Yes, they are"

Woman: "Well, I won't buy them then".

Market vendor: "I know what you mean ... I wouldn't want those after all those dirty black hands have touched them"

[Burgold]

It was mostly to get people to examine themselves on these issues because its important to know why you believe something.

Plus it helps me in evangelizing you heathens if I know how you think. :halo: (that was a joke. Ok, maybe not... )

Fixed that for you. Clearly, that was a yin/yang moment.

[sacase]

Every African American already knows that. Honestly, there is no real purpose to bringing it up in most situations is if you are attempting to be an apologist for the Confederacy or something.

PS - I'm NOT saying you are doing that here sacase (of course). Just saying that it often is perceived that way, given the way it has come up in the past.

You would be suprised how many don't. For me its kind of hard to be an apologist when I am black.

Anyways, I like discussions like this since I truly believe that right and wrong and good and evil are pure creations of humans. Our society has developed to hold certain values higher than others.

[909997]

Why is slavery wrong?

Please explain your reasoning in detail.

And please at least try to keep it civil. I know, I know, its hard, but try to make the effort to not turn it into a religious or political melee. :gang:

Why is it wrong>?

how about u and ur family come work in my farm, and everynight your wife can spend the night in my room. Then you tell me why its wrong.

[techboy]

No NT author said it was evil or immoral. Paul did not say free all the slaves only his friend because he was a Christian [if i remember correctly]

You don't, and I must say that I am shocked that you would have an incomplete understanding of the nuances of the Bible. You quote those out-of-context cut and paste bullets so well...

In any case, you are correct that the Bible (and Paul) never condemns slavery (though it does condemn the later, even more brutal U.S. slavery in the sense that that practice violates many of the regulations mentioned in the Bible), even in Philemon (which is what I think you were thinking of), where Paul kind of wishes (and perhaps even hints) that a slave that had been staying with him could be free in order to continue to assist him in his work. He does not, however, tell Philemon to free Onesimus (Philemon's runaway slave), choosing only to appeal for forgiveness and understanding on his behalf.

Likewise, in the Old Testament, there is no condemnation of slavery, but instead only rules and regulations regarding how it is practiced and banning the more extreme abuses of the day (like kidnapping).

However, there is also nothing praising slavery either, and we can infer from other passages implicity that slavery is wrong and something we shouldn't be doing (an application of the Golden Rule gets us there, for instance).

As Zguy28 noted, there is an explicit example of this, which is that in the Old Testament, there are rules and regulations for how divorces may proceed, and yet in Malachi, God says that He hates divorce, so there is certainly precedent for God putting legal limits on behavior that He doesn't necessarily approve of (keep in mind that most of the passages you refer to are not directly moral laws, but rather part of ancient Israel's legal system).

As I noted in an earlier thread, one can even argue that God is a liberal with this "if people are going to do it anyway, we might as well regulate it" mentality, and if you don't believe God is a liberal, just ask Destino about it.

[techboy]

Anyways, I like discussions like this since I truly believe that right and wrong and good and evil are pure creations of humans. Our society has developed to hold certain values higher than others.

So slavery wasn't wrong before 1800?

[playboy1972]

A joke I remember from when I was growing up ... in the time when Apartheid was still in force in South Africa.

Woman in market buying fruit says: "Are these oranges from South Africa?"

Market vendor replies: " Yes, they are"

Woman: "Well, I won't buy them then".

Market vendor: "I know what you mean ... I wouldn't want those after all those dirty black hands have touched them"

So your point in posting a racist joke is..............................?

[Zguy28]

Why is it wrong>?

how about u and ur family come work in my farm, and everynight your wife can spend the night in my room. Then you tell me why its wrong.

My goodness. Its like Deja Vu all over again.

See Post #70 for why I think its wrong.

I wanna know what determines your value judgment that it is wrong.

[Corcaigh]

So your point in posting a racist joke is..............................?

I always thought it was a 'class warfare' joke, but if your interpretation works for you, go with it.

[Zguy28]

So your point in posting a racist joke is..............................?

Sheesh. Man you don't come in the Tailgate too often do you? First me, now Corcaigh. Your just hitting both ends of the spectrum.

Corky pushes my buttons sometimes with his shots at the church (I know he gets some sort of sick enjoyment out of it ), but I do know this: he isn't a racist, at least that I've ever read. And he seems to be an equal opportunity zinger most of the time.

[Corcaigh]

Corky pushes my buttons sometimes with his shots at the church (I know he gets some sort of sick enjoyment out of it ),

I find it helpful as it diverts me temporarily from self-loathing

[playboy1972]

Sheesh. Man you don't come in the Tailgate too often do you? First me, now Corcaigh. Your just hitting both ends of the spectrum.

Corky pushes my buttons sometimes with his shots at the church (I know he gets some sort of sick enjoyment out of it ), but I do know this: he isn't a racist, at least that I've ever read. And he seems to be an equal opportunity zinger most of the time.

I do post in the tailgate often. But if posting in the tailgate means I will be suggested to post mocking slavery, racism jokes, people asking what they don't like about minorities, and other wild questions, maybe I shouldn't go to the tailgate. Seems like a big freakin' Klan party.

[PeterMP]

So your point in posting a racist joke is..............................?

I think was a joke on the racist.

[Sticksboi05]

Is someone going to argue that it is okay? Where did this question come from?

I think at the base level its wrong simply because you are making another human being nothing more than property and stripping all of their humanity.

Another note about this thread - I think we should all try to keep in mind that the U.S. white on black slavery is FAR from the only instance of slavery in world history.

Yup and most slaves went to plantations in South America; like well over 80%.

[Zguy28]

I do post in the tailgate often. But if posting in the tailgate means I will be suggested to post mocking slavery, racism jokes, people asking what they don't like about minorities, and other wild questions, maybe I shouldn't go to the tailgate. Seems like a big freakin' Klan party.

Are you black? Because you know, us white folks, we don't like to be seen in public or at work conversing with you. We can go to bar though and talk.

The original intent for this thread wasn't to actually find out why its wrong. Its to discuss where values come from. Its a philosophical question.

[Prosperity]

Zguy, your conception of right and wrong depends on the arbitrary decisions of an all powerful sovereign. if you were honest you would recognize that you have no problem with anything inherent to slavery, you think slavery is wrong because at this point in time your God hasn't changed his mind to say slavery is ok (like he did in the old testament)

this lack of respect for human beings is imo evil

[Zguy28]

Zguy, your conception of right and wrong depends on the arbitrary decisions of an all powerful sovereign.

Umm, not exactly. Sure God can be arbitrary. But He also has a particular nature which has certain attributes. For instance He is Holy, Just, Compassionate, Merciful, Loving, and Wrathful. He will violate His own nature.

if you were honest you would recognize that you have no problem with anything inherent to slavery,

On the contrary, I believe God created man in His image. It doesn't matter where he's from or what he looks like.

you think slavery is wrong because at this point in time your God hasn't changed his mind to say slavery is ok (like he did in the old testament)

Are you on dope?

this lack of respect for human beings is imo evil

This lack of respect for the God who created you is imo evil and its theodicy. If you were honest with yourself you'd realize your mistake and stop judging God based on man's standards.

[rincewind]

That's not a personal attack. That is my opinion of his question. He asked for opinions and I gave him one. If he doesn't like my opinion, stop asking "idiot" questions. That's all. I am just curious why someone would be so concerned about why people are against slavery. If he asked you, why is molesting your child wrong, would you be so understanding. Probably not, but I guess your not black.

What does being black or not have to do with it? As I pointed out in my first post in this thread - white on black American slavery is FAR from the only instance of slavery in human history.

[headexplode]

What does being black or not have to do with it? As I pointed out in my first post in this thread - white on black American slavery is FAR from the only instance of slavery in human history.

No sense in debating the morally righteous, those whose indignation clouds their ability to view things clearly, rince, you should know that by now.

I don't know why he didn't attack me--I'm the only one that defended slavery in this thread.

And I stand by it.

[Zguy28]

No sense in debating the morally righteous, those whose indignation clouds their ability to view things clearly, rince, you should know that by now.

I don't know why he didn't attack me--I'm the only one that defended slavery in this thread.

And I stand by it.

I don't think anybody took you seriously.

But you did have a good point about capitalism.

[rincewind]

No sense in debating the morally righteous, those whose indignation clouds their ability to view things clearly, rince, you should know that by now.

I don't know why he didn't attack me--I'm the only one that defended slavery in this thread.

And I stand by it.

Because to attack your point is to attack capitalism. And, as we know, to attack capitalism is to promote communism and nobody wants to be known viewed as a pinko... well, except me and my Uncle Joe.

[headexplode]

I don't think anybody took you seriously.

He accused you of mocking (and thereby implicityly supporting) slavery and Corgaigh of making racist jokes. How can I be sure he has the ability to recognize satire?