Len Shapiro : Coaching Is Not for Gibbs These Days (Mod formatted title)

[LoveDaSkins172645]

Christ you would think we don't have a winning record currently. Shapiro bases the article on a game against a team who is beating everyone they play by 35 points. I guess Tony Dungy better get ready to hang it up as well if he loses against the Patriots. I'll wait with bated breath for that article.

I have 500 dollars that says the colts score more than 7 points, and I have another 500 that says they score in the 1st quarter....

This isn't about a winning record because we could argue the only teams this team has clearly beaten this year was the Eagles and the Lions, had the defense not been playing so good we would be winless.

[RalphZero]

Shapiro's right, and it's about time people take off their rose-tinted glasses and see Gibbs for what he is. Sadly, it looks more and more like Gibbs would not have been so successful the first time around were it not for competent GMs like Beathard and Casserly.

You think the Skins who won 3 Super Bowls in the 80s didn't have to overcome injuries?

I was warning people about this when Gibbs was hired in 2004.

[RalphZero]

Shapiro's right, and it's about time people take off their rose-tinted glasses and see Gibbs for what he is. Sadly, it looks more and more like Gibbs would not have been so successful the first time around were it not for competent GMs like Beathard and Casserly.

You think the Skins who won 3 Super Bowls in the 80s didn't have to overcome injuries?

I was warning people about this when Gibbs was hired in 2004.

[LoveDaSkins172645]

Hey, if replacing Gibbs would make a difference this season, get rid of him now. Hell, get rid of him yesterday.

But, I remain convinced that the problems with this team go a lot deeper (or higher) than Gibbs and it truly does not matter who the coach is.

If Gibbs could go back and do some things he did so well during his 1st tenure here then I would be okay. But nothing I mean nothing this man does now even remotely resembles anything he did in his hay day....

1) When we had an injured line he moved the pocket....He doesn't now.

2) Think about the offense we had when little Joe Washington was here versus the offense we had with Riggins.

Think about the second half adjustments that would be made during halftime versus what is done during halftime presently.

People want a conspiracy well I am almost starting to think this isn't the real Gibbs with all that money Snyder has he cloned Gibbs and brought the look but not the smarts.......:2cents:

[LoveDaSkins172645]

Hey, if replacing Gibbs would make a difference this season, get rid of him now. Hell, get rid of him yesterday.

But, I remain convinced that the problems with this team go a lot deeper (or higher) than Gibbs and it truly does not matter who the coach is.

If Gibbs could go back and do some things he did so well during his 1st tenure here then I would be okay. But nothing I mean nothing this man does now even remotely resembles anything he did in his hay day....

1) When we had an injured line he moved the pocket....He doesn't now.

2) Think about the offense we had when little Joe Washington was here versus the offense we had with Riggins.

Think about the second half adjustments that would be made during halftime versus what is done during halftime presently.

People want a conspiracy well I am almost starting to think this isn't the real Gibbs with all that money Snyder has he cloned Gibbs and brought the look but not the smarts.......:2cents:

[ttr77]

If Gibbs could go back and do some things he did so well during his 1st tenure here then I would be okay. But nothing I mean nothing this man does now even remotely resembles anything he did in his hay day....

1) When we had an injured line he moved the pocket....He doesn't now.

2) Think about the offense we had when little Joe Washington was here versus the offense we had with Riggins.

Think about the second half adjustments that would be made during halftime versus what is done during halftime presently.

People want a conspiracy well I am almost starting to think this isn't the real Gibbs with all that money Snyder has he cloned Gibbs and brought the look but not the smarts.......:2cents:

I agree. This doesn't even compare. But bringing in someone else will most likely make things worse, if all else remains the same.

[ttr77]

If Gibbs could go back and do some things he did so well during his 1st tenure here then I would be okay. But nothing I mean nothing this man does now even remotely resembles anything he did in his hay day....

1) When we had an injured line he moved the pocket....He doesn't now.

2) Think about the offense we had when little Joe Washington was here versus the offense we had with Riggins.

Think about the second half adjustments that would be made during halftime versus what is done during halftime presently.

People want a conspiracy well I am almost starting to think this isn't the real Gibbs with all that money Snyder has he cloned Gibbs and brought the look but not the smarts.......:2cents:

I agree. This doesn't even compare. But bringing in someone else will most likely make things worse, if all else remains the same.

[TMK9973]

I'm so sick of this!

There is NOTHING wrong with Gibbs! 4th year. We will make the playoffs.

It's not Snyders fault. He's not saying "Win now or get out". It's the fans saying that. Snyder says "Gibbs -I trust you. Long term"

Want history -Ok. Let's look.

Some of you want Bill Cowher..

Well wait a second - He came in in 1992 and showed he was a great coach....

Come 1998 - he went 7-9

1999 - 6-10

2000- 9-7

2001 lost the season opener 21 - 3

CLEARLY the game passed him by. He need to go - according to your logic. 3+ years was enough. He proved it was over....

Of course - Turned out that was not the case...

How about Bill Belichick -

1991 - 6-10

1992- 7-9

93 - 7-9

1994 - 11-5

1995 -5-11

Clearly in over his head. He came back in 2000 for the pats

Finished 5-11

2001 - 11-5 and a SB

but 2002- 9-7!!!!

He lost 31 to 0 to start the 2003 season,

Game MUST have passed him by! Get rid of him! 2 good years only!

How about Brian Billick?

2002 - 7-9

2003 -10-6

2004- 9-7

2005 - 6-10

And last year people kept pointing to the ravens and saying "We should be more like them!"

Perhaps the truth is it's just harder to win in the league now.

Even the best teams, the best coaches, have bad years.

Many - Have bad spans....

Doesn't mean they are done.

After this year - Gibbs 2.0 will have 4 seasons, 2 with winning records and, I belive, 2 with playoffs apperences after 1 playoff apperence in the 12 years prior.....

[TMK9973]

I'm so sick of this!

There is NOTHING wrong with Gibbs! 4th year. We will make the playoffs.

It's not Snyders fault. He's not saying "Win now or get out". It's the fans saying that. Snyder says "Gibbs -I trust you. Long term"

Want history -Ok. Let's look.

Some of you want Bill Cowher..

Well wait a second - He came in in 1992 and showed he was a great coach....

Come 1998 - he went 7-9

1999 - 6-10

2000- 9-7

2001 lost the season opener 21 - 3

CLEARLY the game passed him by. He need to go - according to your logic. 3+ years was enough. He proved it was over....

Of course - Turned out that was not the case...

How about Bill Belichick -

1991 - 6-10

1992- 7-9

93 - 7-9

1994 - 11-5

1995 -5-11

Clearly in over his head. He came back in 2000 for the pats

Finished 5-11

2001 - 11-5 and a SB

but 2002- 9-7!!!!

He lost 31 to 0 to start the 2003 season,

Game MUST have passed him by! Get rid of him! 2 good years only!

How about Brian Billick?

2002 - 7-9

2003 -10-6

2004- 9-7

2005 - 6-10

And last year people kept pointing to the ravens and saying "We should be more like them!"

Perhaps the truth is it's just harder to win in the league now.

Even the best teams, the best coaches, have bad years.

Many - Have bad spans....

Doesn't mean they are done.

After this year - Gibbs 2.0 will have 4 seasons, 2 with winning records and, I belive, 2 with playoffs apperences after 1 playoff apperence in the 12 years prior.....

[RalphZero]

Right, I understand that, and the ownership and GM support is not there. At the same time, I don't exactly see the same coach, either. You realize we haven't run one fake punt, one surprise onside kick since he's come back? Stuff he was known for the first time around. We're so unbelievably predictable in everything we do ON THE FIELD, and that part of it IS Gibbs.

I don't mean to be a jerk. Unless you are lying about your age, you were born in 1983. How would you know what Gibbs did back in the 80's? I hardly ever remember fake punts or onside kicks. Gibbs won games but he hardly every won by many points. I remember watching those Redksins-Giants games back in the 80's when Parcells was coaching the Giants. Those weren't football games as much as chess matches. Gibbs has ALWAYS been conservative. Gibbs does not have 10% of the resources he had back in the 80's.

This is a quote from skins4eva:

"Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is."

[RalphZero]

Right, I understand that, and the ownership and GM support is not there. At the same time, I don't exactly see the same coach, either. You realize we haven't run one fake punt, one surprise onside kick since he's come back? Stuff he was known for the first time around. We're so unbelievably predictable in everything we do ON THE FIELD, and that part of it IS Gibbs.

I don't mean to be a jerk. Unless you are lying about your age, you were born in 1983. How would you know what Gibbs did back in the 80's? I hardly ever remember fake punts or onside kicks. Gibbs won games but he hardly every won by many points. I remember watching those Redksins-Giants games back in the 80's when Parcells was coaching the Giants. Those weren't football games as much as chess matches. Gibbs has ALWAYS been conservative. Gibbs does not have 10% of the resources he had back in the 80's.

This is a quote from skins4eva:

"Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is."

[Isifhan]

Shapiro explictly said he didn't base his article off of the Patriots game--did you read it?

Oh yeah he didn't do that at all after he made his initial "non knee jerk" statement....

...before they can even begin to think about becoming an elite team like the Patriots or Colts.

Yep dropped the references to them right there...

...the second half of the season has all the makings of a 7-9 or 8-8 finish.

Ok Len, can you at least let us know what teams we'll lose too so the team can mark it down so they don't have to waste time with bus schedules and the like for those pesky away games?

He also was a far younger man, arriving here as a hungry, 41-year-old dynamo willing to put in 18-hour days, sacrifice family time and later, his own health

I guess Len wasn't at the park the dozens of times not only Gibbs but other coaches have said they put in 15+ hour days. I know it's hard to get out of bed and down to the park Len...I dunno maybe the journalism biz has passed you by...

4-3 in a season when only one of their four victories, against the fraudulent Lions

Yep, the Lions are fraudulent all right. So fraudulent they are second in their division.

I could go on but what's the point. The rest of the article is filled with the same bs he's been spewing since Snyder took over the team.

Am I saying it's all roses? No their are obviously problems with the team, but the umbrage that I take with lemmings like this guy is the fact that it doesn't matter what we finish. If we win all of our games he's not going to apologize for jumping to conclusions. Let the season play out before calling for a guys retirement. It's disrespectful and Gibbs winning or not has at least earned the respect to finish out the season before there's a three page article saying he should retire in one of the most widlely read newspapers in the country.

[Isifhan]

Shapiro explictly said he didn't base his article off of the Patriots game--did you read it?

Oh yeah he didn't do that at all after he made his initial "non knee jerk" statement....

...before they can even begin to think about becoming an elite team like the Patriots or Colts.

Yep dropped the references to them right there...

...the second half of the season has all the makings of a 7-9 or 8-8 finish.

Ok Len, can you at least let us know what teams we'll lose too so the team can mark it down so they don't have to waste time with bus schedules and the like for those pesky away games?

He also was a far younger man, arriving here as a hungry, 41-year-old dynamo willing to put in 18-hour days, sacrifice family time and later, his own health

I guess Len wasn't at the park the dozens of times not only Gibbs but other coaches have said they put in 15+ hour days. I know it's hard to get out of bed and down to the park Len...I dunno maybe the journalism biz has passed you by...

4-3 in a season when only one of their four victories, against the fraudulent Lions

Yep, the Lions are fraudulent all right. So fraudulent they are second in their division.

I could go on but what's the point. The rest of the article is filled with the same bs he's been spewing since Snyder took over the team.

Am I saying it's all roses? No their are obviously problems with the team, but the umbrage that I take with lemmings like this guy is the fact that it doesn't matter what we finish. If we win all of our games he's not going to apologize for jumping to conclusions. Let the season play out before calling for a guys retirement. It's disrespectful and Gibbs winning or not has at least earned the respect to finish out the season before there's a three page article saying he should retire in one of the most widlely read newspapers in the country.

[LoveDaSkins172645]

I'm so sick of this!

There is NOTHING wrong with Gibbs! 4th year. We will make the playoffs.

It's not Snyders fault. He's not saying "Win now or get out". It's the fans saying that. Snyder says "Gibbs -I trust you. Long term"

Want history -Ok. Let's look.

Some of you want Bill Cowher..

Well wait a second - He came in in 1992 and showed he was a great coach....

Come 1998 - he went 7-9

1999 - 6-10

2000- 9-7

2001 lost the season opener 21 - 3

CLEARLY the game passed him by. He need to go - according to your logic. 3+ years was enough. He proved it was over....

Of course - Turned out that was not the case...

How about Bill Belichick -

1991 - 6-10

1992- 7-9

93 - 7-9

1994 - 11-5

1995 -5-11

Clearly in over his head. He came back in 2000 for the pats

Finished 5-11

2001 - 11-5 and a SB

but 2002- 9-7!!!!

He lost 31 to 0 to start the 2003 season,

Game MUST have passed him by! Get rid of him! 2 good years only!

How about Brian Billick?

2002 - 7-9

2003 -10-6

2004- 9-7

2005 - 6-10

And last year people kept pointing to the ravens and saying "We should be more like them!"

Perhaps the truth is it's just harder to win in the league now.

Even the best teams, the best coaches, have bad years.

Many - Have bad spans....

Doesn't mean they are done.

After this year - Gibbs 2.0 will have 4 seasons, 2 with winning records and, I belive, 2 with playoffs apperences after 1 playoff apperence in the 12 years prior.....

Your points are well taken however fundamentally wrong here is why:

None of the coaches you mention hold a torch to the Coach Gibbs during our glory days. Secondly Billick was always over rated he got his reputation with Moss, Carter, and that Viking Offense that was a scoring machine until it got deep into the playoffs, I will also add the team Billick coached that won the SB was won by the defense.

Billicheat - He sucked for years after leaving Parcells, when he coached the Browns, Jets they sucked! Finally he started adjusting and the wins started to come.

Cowher - This is a tossup because I think if he comes here and Danny tries the crap he did with Spurrier and the Norv, Cowher will beat his little behind.

So to make my point crystal clear Gibbs simply isn't doing what he once did and the reasons are open for debate, I only know what he ONCE DID versus what HE ISN'T AND HASN'T DONE THIS ENTIRE 4 YEARS. :point2sky

[LoveDaSkins172645]

I'm so sick of this!

There is NOTHING wrong with Gibbs! 4th year. We will make the playoffs.

It's not Snyders fault. He's not saying "Win now or get out". It's the fans saying that. Snyder says "Gibbs -I trust you. Long term"

Want history -Ok. Let's look.

Some of you want Bill Cowher..

Well wait a second - He came in in 1992 and showed he was a great coach....

Come 1998 - he went 7-9

1999 - 6-10

2000- 9-7

2001 lost the season opener 21 - 3

CLEARLY the game passed him by. He need to go - according to your logic. 3+ years was enough. He proved it was over....

Of course - Turned out that was not the case...

How about Bill Belichick -

1991 - 6-10

1992- 7-9

93 - 7-9

1994 - 11-5

1995 -5-11

Clearly in over his head. He came back in 2000 for the pats

Finished 5-11

2001 - 11-5 and a SB

but 2002- 9-7!!!!

He lost 31 to 0 to start the 2003 season,

Game MUST have passed him by! Get rid of him! 2 good years only!

How about Brian Billick?

2002 - 7-9

2003 -10-6

2004- 9-7

2005 - 6-10

And last year people kept pointing to the ravens and saying "We should be more like them!"

Perhaps the truth is it's just harder to win in the league now.

Even the best teams, the best coaches, have bad years.

Many - Have bad spans....

Doesn't mean they are done.

After this year - Gibbs 2.0 will have 4 seasons, 2 with winning records and, I belive, 2 with playoffs apperences after 1 playoff apperence in the 12 years prior.....

Your points are well taken however fundamentally wrong here is why:

None of the coaches you mention hold a torch to the Coach Gibbs during our glory days. Secondly Billick was always over rated he got his reputation with Moss, Carter, and that Viking Offense that was a scoring machine until it got deep into the playoffs, I will also add the team Billick coached that won the SB was won by the defense.

Billicheat - He sucked for years after leaving Parcells, when he coached the Browns, Jets they sucked! Finally he started adjusting and the wins started to come.

Cowher - This is a tossup because I think if he comes here and Danny tries the crap he did with Spurrier and the Norv, Cowher will beat his little behind.

So to make my point crystal clear Gibbs simply isn't doing what he once did and the reasons are open for debate, I only know what he ONCE DID versus what HE ISN'T AND HASN'T DONE THIS ENTIRE 4 YEARS. :point2sky

[DirtyGunz8]

if we beat the pat's would you all be so harsh? sometimes i hate being a redskin fan only because of other redskin fans.

[DirtyGunz8]

if we beat the pat's would you all be so harsh? sometimes i hate being a redskin fan only because of other redskin fans.

[Hooper]

The truth hurts.

More so since it's Joe Gibbs we're talking about.

[Hooper]

The truth hurts.

More so since it's Joe Gibbs we're talking about.

[Critz1407]

so question lets say we make the playoffs the year with a 9-7 record and we make it to the playoffs next year with a 10-6 record but we don't win a super bowl, would anyone consider Gibbs 2.0 a failure?

[Critz1407]

so question lets say we make the playoffs the year with a 9-7 record and we make it to the playoffs next year with a 10-6 record but we don't win a super bowl, would anyone consider Gibbs 2.0 a failure?

[RedskinsPrideinNY]

Gibbs is a great coach and he can make it happen with the structure that is in place with one exception. We need a GM. Snyder should pony up the money and get the best out there, Pioli. Gibbs is an incredible coach, team president, etc, but talent wise we need an objective person that can evaluate the players.

By the way, there is something that Gibbs brought to this team that we can't forget. A bit of integrity. It sucked after he left and worse as ownership changed. He did right the ship and got it back on course, we just need a GM to provide the gas to move it. He did more than anyone is giving him credit for. It is actually not miserable being a skins fan anymore there is always a glimmer of hope.

Needless to say I think this is his last year as coach regardless what happens.

[RedskinsPrideinNY]

Gibbs is a great coach and he can make it happen with the structure that is in place with one exception. We need a GM. Snyder should pony up the money and get the best out there, Pioli. Gibbs is an incredible coach, team president, etc, but talent wise we need an objective person that can evaluate the players.

By the way, there is something that Gibbs brought to this team that we can't forget. A bit of integrity. It sucked after he left and worse as ownership changed. He did right the ship and got it back on course, we just need a GM to provide the gas to move it. He did more than anyone is giving him credit for. It is actually not miserable being a skins fan anymore there is always a glimmer of hope.

Needless to say I think this is his last year as coach regardless what happens.

[laxpck]

Can we start just putting a tag (pro-gibbs/anti-gibbs) in the title of every thread so I know which ones to avoid.

THE NFL HAS NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THE PATRIOTS. I AM SORRY WE LOST. I AM SORRY HOW WE LOST. THEY ARE A JUGGERNAUT. GOD DAMN PEOPLE GET A GRIP.

MORE UPHEAVAL?

THATS WHAT YOU WANT?

AFTER ****ING 8 YEARS OF SNYDER, 3 since he meddled you want TO START OVER AGAIN?

FOOTBALL FRANCHISES ARE NOT ****ING MICROWAVE BURRITOS.

TEAMS ARE NOW REAPING THE BENEFITS of DECISIONS THEY MADE 5 YEARS AGO.

I SWEAR TO GOD PEOPLE ARE TAKING FOOTBALL STUPID PILLS. WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE SECOND HARDEST STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE IN THE NFC (6th overall in the NFL) (http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/nfcsosag.html) INJURIES + ROOKIE QB.....and WE ARE STILL 4-3. AND YOU WANT TO START OVER? WHAT DID YOU EXPECT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON WITH A NEW QB? 14-2? 15-1? We would be lucky to go 10-6.

Lucky I can sleep at night knowing JOE GIBBS is 100 X THE REDSKIN THAT ANY OF HIS ****ING DETRACTORS ARE.

[laxpck]

Can we start just putting a tag (pro-gibbs/anti-gibbs) in the title of every thread so I know which ones to avoid.

THE NFL HAS NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THE PATRIOTS. I AM SORRY WE LOST. I AM SORRY HOW WE LOST. THEY ARE A JUGGERNAUT. GOD DAMN PEOPLE GET A GRIP.

MORE UPHEAVAL?

THATS WHAT YOU WANT?

AFTER ****ING 8 YEARS OF SNYDER, 3 since he meddled you want TO START OVER AGAIN?

FOOTBALL FRANCHISES ARE NOT ****ING MICROWAVE BURRITOS.

TEAMS ARE NOW REAPING THE BENEFITS of DECISIONS THEY MADE 5 YEARS AGO.

I SWEAR TO GOD PEOPLE ARE TAKING FOOTBALL STUPID PILLS. WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE SECOND HARDEST STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE IN THE NFC (6th overall in the NFL) (http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/nfcsosag.html) INJURIES + ROOKIE QB.....and WE ARE STILL 4-3. AND YOU WANT TO START OVER? WHAT DID YOU EXPECT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON WITH A NEW QB? 14-2? 15-1? We would be lucky to go 10-6.

Lucky I can sleep at night knowing JOE GIBBS is 100 X THE REDSKIN THAT ANY OF HIS ****ING DETRACTORS ARE.