RalphZero Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Because, it's plain for many of us to see that he's not going to get it done this time around. There's no innovation, there's no confidence, there's no aggressiveness....just the same, tired, scared gameplan, week after week, year after year, expecting things to change for some reason, but never getting much different results. Holy Crap!!! What's going on here? Joe Gibbs did not get it done by himself back in the 80's. It took the entire organization. Jack Kent Cooke became majority owner of the Redskins in 1974. He hired Beathard in 1978. Beathard starting building that team two years before Gibbs was hired. When Gibbs was hired in 1980, Joe Theismann, Riggins, some of the Hoggs, Richie Pettibone and the Defense were already there. He was just brought in to run the offense and call some plays. Gibbs was just one piece of the puzzle. Is anyone out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphZero Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Because, it's plain for many of us to see that he's not going to get it done this time around. There's no innovation, there's no confidence, there's no aggressiveness....just the same, tired, scared gameplan, week after week, year after year, expecting things to change for some reason, but never getting much different results. Holy Crap!!! What's going on here? Joe Gibbs did not get it done by himself back in the 80's. It took the entire organization. Jack Kent Cooke became majority owner of the Redskins in 1974. He hired Beathard in 1978. Beathard starting building that team two years before Gibbs was hired. When Gibbs was hired in 1980, Joe Theismann, Riggins, some of the Hoggs, Richie Pettibone and the Defense were already there. He was just brought in to run the offense and call some plays. Gibbs was just one piece of the puzzle. Is anyone out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Shapiro's right, and it's about time people take off their rose-tinted glasses and see Gibbs for what he is. Sadly, it looks more and more like Gibbs would not have been so successful the first time around were it not for competent GMs like Beathard and Casserly.You think the Skins who won 3 Super Bowls in the 80s didn't have to overcome injuries? I don't think there's anything sad about that at all. Gibbs is a coach, like most coaches, he's better thinking about how to win the next game than thinking about the next 5 years. Most coaches need a good GM to be successful, I don't see how that takes anything away from him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Shapiro's right, and it's about time people take off their rose-tinted glasses and see Gibbs for what he is. Sadly, it looks more and more like Gibbs would not have been so successful the first time around were it not for competent GMs like Beathard and Casserly.You think the Skins who won 3 Super Bowls in the 80s didn't have to overcome injuries? I don't think there's anything sad about that at all. Gibbs is a coach, like most coaches, he's better thinking about how to win the next game than thinking about the next 5 years. Most coaches need a good GM to be successful, I don't see how that takes anything away from him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Those of you who criticize Len need to step back and look at this franchise objectively. There is strong evidence to back up every point he makes in this article. If you want to disagree, provide evidence to the contrary. We desperately need a Top-Down corporate structure in this franchise that has clearly deliniated goals and can be held accountable for successes and failures. What we have now is an organizational structure that no one can fully describe nor comprehend. Thus, we have no organization. Any of you who think this doesn't effect the product on the field are sorely mistaken. The organizational behavior of football and business do not differ: if you have strong, driven leadership at the top in business, you'll have a much better chance of attracting clients and producing a top-notch product or service. Similarly, if you have that structure on a football team, you'll have similar success on the field. Right now, we have a coach that means well, but cannot escape the pitfalls of this organizational structure, where money is the solution to all problems great and small. Snyder has bought himself out of problems all his life--it must eat at him that he can't buy himself a successful team, but he can't. And, until he shows a commitment to implementing a structure built for success (which will not include Vinny Cerrato), success will not be forthcoming. Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Those of you who criticize Len need to step back and look at this franchise objectively. There is strong evidence to back up every point he makes in this article. If you want to disagree, provide evidence to the contrary. We desperately need a Top-Down corporate structure in this franchise that has clearly deliniated goals and can be held accountable for successes and failures. What we have now is an organizational structure that no one can fully describe nor comprehend. Thus, we have no organization. Any of you who think this doesn't effect the product on the field are sorely mistaken. The organizational behavior of football and business do not differ: if you have strong, driven leadership at the top in business, you'll have a much better chance of attracting clients and producing a top-notch product or service. Similarly, if you have that structure on a football team, you'll have similar success on the field. Right now, we have a coach that means well, but cannot escape the pitfalls of this organizational structure, where money is the solution to all problems great and small. Snyder has bought himself out of problems all his life--it must eat at him that he can't buy himself a successful team, but he can't. And, until he shows a commitment to implementing a structure built for success (which will not include Vinny Cerrato), success will not be forthcoming. Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Holy Crap!!!What's going on here? Joe Gibbs did not get it done by himself back in the 80's. It took the entire organization. Jack Kent Cooke became majority owner of the Redskins in 1974. He hired Beathard in 1978. Beathard starting building that team two years before Gibbs was hired. When Gibbs was hired in 1980, Joe Theismann, Riggins, some of the Hoggs, Richie Pettibone and the Defense were already there. He was just brought in to run the offense and call some plays. Gibbs was just one piece of the puzzle. Is anyone out there? Right, I understand that, and the ownership and GM support is not there. At the same time, I don't exactly see the same coach, either. You realize we haven't run one fake punt, one surprise onside kick since he's come back? Stuff he was known for the first time around. We're so unbelievably predictable in everything we do ON THE FIELD, and that part of it IS Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Holy Crap!!!What's going on here? Joe Gibbs did not get it done by himself back in the 80's. It took the entire organization. Jack Kent Cooke became majority owner of the Redskins in 1974. He hired Beathard in 1978. Beathard starting building that team two years before Gibbs was hired. When Gibbs was hired in 1980, Joe Theismann, Riggins, some of the Hoggs, Richie Pettibone and the Defense were already there. He was just brought in to run the offense and call some plays. Gibbs was just one piece of the puzzle. Is anyone out there? Right, I understand that, and the ownership and GM support is not there. At the same time, I don't exactly see the same coach, either. You realize we haven't run one fake punt, one surprise onside kick since he's come back? Stuff he was known for the first time around. We're so unbelievably predictable in everything we do ON THE FIELD, and that part of it IS Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Those of you who criticize Len need to step back and look at this franchise objectively. There is strong evidence to back up every point he makes in this article. If you want to disagree, provide evidence to the contrary. We desperately need a Top-Down corporate structure in this franchise that has clearly deliniated goals and can be held accountable for successes and failures. What we have now is an organizational structure that no one can fully describe nor comprehend. Thus, we have no organization. Any of you who think this doesn't effect the product on the field are sorely mistaken. The organizational behavior of football and business do not differ: if you have strong, driven leadership at the top in business, you'll have a much better chance of attracting clients and producing a top-notch product or service. Similarly, if you have that structure on a football team, you'll have similar success on the field. Right now, we have a coach that means well, but cannot escape the pitfalls of this organizational structure, where money is the solution to all problems great and small. Snyder has bought himself out of problems all his life--it must eat at him that he can't buy himself a successful team, but he can't. And, until he shows a commitment to implementing a structure built for success (which will not include Vinny Cerrato), success will not be forthcoming. Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is. I wish I had written this. Nicely done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Those of you who criticize Len need to step back and look at this franchise objectively. There is strong evidence to back up every point he makes in this article. If you want to disagree, provide evidence to the contrary. We desperately need a Top-Down corporate structure in this franchise that has clearly deliniated goals and can be held accountable for successes and failures. What we have now is an organizational structure that no one can fully describe nor comprehend. Thus, we have no organization. Any of you who think this doesn't effect the product on the field are sorely mistaken. The organizational behavior of football and business do not differ: if you have strong, driven leadership at the top in business, you'll have a much better chance of attracting clients and producing a top-notch product or service. Similarly, if you have that structure on a football team, you'll have similar success on the field. Right now, we have a coach that means well, but cannot escape the pitfalls of this organizational structure, where money is the solution to all problems great and small. Snyder has bought himself out of problems all his life--it must eat at him that he can't buy himself a successful team, but he can't. And, until he shows a commitment to implementing a structure built for success (which will not include Vinny Cerrato), success will not be forthcoming. Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is. I wish I had written this. Nicely done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveDaSkins172645 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Well, I know I'm not a Dallas fan. The other 2 are debatable. However, if the choice comes down to Snyder firing Gibbs or him staying, I'd vote for him to stay. If Snyder fires him, no matter the record this season, this team will be in serious trouble. Maybe I am crazy but based on the 52 -7 score from last sunday let me put it like this..... HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.... Also let me clarify it's not the 52 points the Patriots put up, it was the 7 we put up. This whole side of the football that Gibbs has such a reputation of having is simply terrible. This offense makes every other defense look almost like the 85 Bears. This experiment needs to end and end now, and then I would like to see if this offense is truly as pathetic as it looks or is it really Gibbs in his senility calling these plays over and over again.......:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveDaSkins172645 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Well, I know I'm not a Dallas fan. The other 2 are debatable. However, if the choice comes down to Snyder firing Gibbs or him staying, I'd vote for him to stay. If Snyder fires him, no matter the record this season, this team will be in serious trouble. Maybe I am crazy but based on the 52 -7 score from last sunday let me put it like this..... HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.... Also let me clarify it's not the 52 points the Patriots put up, it was the 7 we put up. This whole side of the football that Gibbs has such a reputation of having is simply terrible. This offense makes every other defense look almost like the 85 Bears. This experiment needs to end and end now, and then I would like to see if this offense is truly as pathetic as it looks or is it really Gibbs in his senility calling these plays over and over again.......:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom44 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Let the season play out before we all gather torches and pitchforks. Shapiro is just speculating based on a bunch of BS. The only thing keeping us down is lack of execution on critical plays. My only criticism is that Joe needs to encourage some "Mean" on this team. Lets see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom44 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Let the season play out before we all gather torches and pitchforks. Shapiro is just speculating based on a bunch of BS. The only thing keeping us down is lack of execution on critical plays. My only criticism is that Joe needs to encourage some "Mean" on this team. Lets see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Christ you would think we don't have a winning record currently. Shapiro bases the article on a game against a team who is beating everyone they play by 35 points. I guess Tony Dungy better get ready to hang it up as well if he loses against the Patriots. I'll wait with bated breath for that article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Christ you would think we don't have a winning record currently. Shapiro bases the article on a game against a team who is beating everyone they play by 35 points. I guess Tony Dungy better get ready to hang it up as well if he loses against the Patriots. I'll wait with bated breath for that article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrett Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 great article . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrett Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 great article . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphZero Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Those of you who criticize Len need to step back and look at this franchise objectively. There is strong evidence to back up every point he makes in this article. If you want to disagree, provide evidence to the contrary. We desperately need a Top-Down corporate structure in this franchise that has clearly deliniated goals and can be held accountable for successes and failures. What we have now is an organizational structure that no one can fully describe nor comprehend. Thus, we have no organization. Any of you who think this doesn't effect the product on the field are sorely mistaken. The organization behavior of football and business do not differ: if you have strong, driven leadership at the top in business, you'll have a much better chance of attracting clients and producing a top-notch product or service. Similarly, if you have that structure on a football team, you'll have similar success on the field. Right now, we have a coach that means well, but cannot escape the pitfalls of this organization structure, where money is the solution to all problems great and small. Snyder has bought himself out of problems all his life--it must eat at him that he can't buy himself a successful team, but he can't. And, until he shows a commitment to implementing a structure built for success (which will not include Vinny Cerrato), success will not be forthcoming. Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is. That's beautiful. There seems to be two groups of people on the board. Group A: Those who think like you. I agree with you 100%. Group B: Get rid of Gibbs and hire Bill Cowher and we will mysteriously start winning again. If the team continues to lose with Bill Cowher, then Bill Cowher must be past his prime also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphZero Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Those of you who criticize Len need to step back and look at this franchise objectively. There is strong evidence to back up every point he makes in this article. If you want to disagree, provide evidence to the contrary. We desperately need a Top-Down corporate structure in this franchise that has clearly deliniated goals and can be held accountable for successes and failures. What we have now is an organizational structure that no one can fully describe nor comprehend. Thus, we have no organization. Any of you who think this doesn't effect the product on the field are sorely mistaken. The organization behavior of football and business do not differ: if you have strong, driven leadership at the top in business, you'll have a much better chance of attracting clients and producing a top-notch product or service. Similarly, if you have that structure on a football team, you'll have similar success on the field. Right now, we have a coach that means well, but cannot escape the pitfalls of this organization structure, where money is the solution to all problems great and small. Snyder has bought himself out of problems all his life--it must eat at him that he can't buy himself a successful team, but he can't. And, until he shows a commitment to implementing a structure built for success (which will not include Vinny Cerrato), success will not be forthcoming. Thus, Gibbs has been fighting a losing battle ever since he returned because (whether he knows it or not) he is being sabatoged by an owner who doesn't understand football, but wants to be involved in football; an owner who has no patience for building a successful team over time, and always seeks the quick fix. Until that changes, it won't matter who our coach is. That's beautiful. There seems to be two groups of people on the board. Group A: Those who think like you. I agree with you 100%. Group B: Get rid of Gibbs and hire Bill Cowher and we will mysteriously start winning again. If the team continues to lose with Bill Cowher, then Bill Cowher must be past his prime also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Christ you would think we don't have a winning record currently. Shapiro bases the article on a game against a team who is beating everyone they play by 35 points. I guess Tony Dungy better get ready to hang it up as well if he loses against the Patriots. I'll wait with bated breath for that article. Shapiro explictly said he didn't base his article off of the Patriots game--did you read it? There are cancers all over this franchise that have nothing to do with the Patriots game. Yes, we have a winning record--how many of those wins were convincing? I can't understand how some people want to bury their heads in the sand and ignore this franchises problems--they're not going away anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Christ you would think we don't have a winning record currently. Shapiro bases the article on a game against a team who is beating everyone they play by 35 points. I guess Tony Dungy better get ready to hang it up as well if he loses against the Patriots. I'll wait with bated breath for that article. Shapiro explictly said he didn't base his article off of the Patriots game--did you read it? There are cancers all over this franchise that have nothing to do with the Patriots game. Yes, we have a winning record--how many of those wins were convincing? I can't understand how some people want to bury their heads in the sand and ignore this franchises problems--they're not going away anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Maybe I am crazy but based on the 52 -7 score from last sunday let me put it like this.....HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.... Also let me clarify it's not the 52 points the Patriots put up, it was the 7 we put up. This whole side of the football that Gibbs has such a reputation of having is simply terrible. This offense makes every other defense look almost like the 85 Bears. This experiment needs to end and end now, and then I would like to see if this offense is truly as pathetic as it looks or is it really Gibbs in his senility calling these plays over and over again.......:2cents: Hey, if replacing Gibbs would make a difference this season, get rid of him now. Hell, get rid of him yesterday. But, I remain convinced that the problems with this team go a lot deeper (or higher) than Gibbs and it truly does not matter who the coach is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Maybe I am crazy but based on the 52 -7 score from last sunday let me put it like this.....HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.... Also let me clarify it's not the 52 points the Patriots put up, it was the 7 we put up. This whole side of the football that Gibbs has such a reputation of having is simply terrible. This offense makes every other defense look almost like the 85 Bears. This experiment needs to end and end now, and then I would like to see if this offense is truly as pathetic as it looks or is it really Gibbs in his senility calling these plays over and over again.......:2cents: Hey, if replacing Gibbs would make a difference this season, get rid of him now. Hell, get rid of him yesterday. But, I remain convinced that the problems with this team go a lot deeper (or higher) than Gibbs and it truly does not matter who the coach is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveDaSkins172645 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Christ you would think we don't have a winning record currently. Shapiro bases the article on a game against a team who is beating everyone they play by 35 points. I guess Tony Dungy better get ready to hang it up as well if he loses against the Patriots. I'll wait with bated breath for that article. I have 500 dollars that says the colts score more than 7 points, and I have another 500 that says they score in the 1st quarter.... This isn't about a winning record because we could argue the only teams this team has clearly beaten this year was the Eagles and the Lions, had the defense not been playing so good we would be winless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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