Christianity's Image Problem

[Zguy28]

Baptism is simply a public display of your faith. It has nothing to do with salvation, other than to demonstrate you've accepted Christ.

That's a Baptist view. I think Roman Catholics would disagree.

You could start a whole other discussion on paedobaptism versus believers baptism.

[Mufumonk]

That among MANY other misunderstanding are common issues.....

While I am still a habitual sinner I consider myself a model for fellow Christians.....

How very humble of you. Jesus would be proud.

[alexey]

While I am still a habitual sinner I consider myself a model for fellow Christians.....

That mindset alone disqualifies you as such.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

[prophet]

That mindset alone disqualifies you as such.

Not True...

While probably not the best thing to type down on this board I would not call it ungodly. Typical Knee Jerk Reaction again.

1 Corinthians 4:16

Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

1 Corinthians 4:15-17 1 Corinthians 4

Hebrews 6:12

We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Hebrews 6:11-13 Hebrews 6

Hebrews 13:7

Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

Hebrews 13:6-8 Hebrews 13

[GibbsFactor]

Baptism is simply a public display of your faith. It has nothing to do with salvation, other than to demonstrate you've accepted Christ.

And that's all you need to do. Trying to argue this point is not sensible sense ALL sins are forgiven.

[alexey]

Not True...

While probably not the best thing to type down on this board I would not call it ungodly. Typical Knee Jerk Reaction again.

1 Corinthians 4:16

Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

1 Corinthians 4:15-17 1 Corinthians 4

Hebrews 6:12

We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Hebrews 6:11-13 Hebrews 6

Hebrews 13:7

Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

Hebrews 13:6-8 Hebrews 13

He certainly didn't get to "I consider myself a model for fellow Christians" by imitating those who inherited what has been promised through patience and faith.

[Zguy28]

Well, this certainly took a turn for the worse in short order.

[Mufumonk]

Not True...

While probably not the best thing to type down on this board I would not call it ungodly. Typical Knee Jerk Reaction again.

1 Corinthians 4:16

Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

1 Corinthians 4:15-17 1 Corinthians 4

Hebrews 6:12

We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Hebrews 6:11-13 Hebrews 6

Hebrews 13:7

Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

Hebrews 13:6-8 Hebrews 13

“Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted” (Matthew 23:12).

[The_cavalierman]

Damn Jews, they're running everything.

- Mel Gibson.

:laugh:

Mel has issues...

[prophet]

Knee jerk police in full effect! Yippie! :applause:

[PeterMP]

That's irrelevant and a cop out Peter. You seem to make justifications for yourself with these statements about how the situation is not the same, yet the Kingdom of God hasn't changed from then til now, and many of those around you are perishing. The early church in Jerusalem started to take the same attitude as you with regards to the Great Commission. They stopped seeking the lost. They started to just stagnate in Jerusalem and in their faith and said "let the Apostles do all of the ministry". Then persecution came and scattered them abroad so that they would continue to fulfill God's mission. If what you said was the truth, then nobody would be Christian right now, and Christianity would have died in the Second Century.

At the Great White Throne judgment, I hope you are ready to look those folks in the eye when they say "Why didn't you at least try to tell me once?"

So you believe all Christians are called to be actively part of the Great Commission?

I think this study actually nicely shows the flaw in that reasoning. The increased activity of the religious right (which is partly their involvment in Great Commission) is pushing people away from Christianity- not pulling people towards it. Many people just don't have the ability to properly persuade people about something like Christianity and so resort to things and methods that just push people away. Note, I'm not saying that nobody should be serving this role, but just not everybody, and currently, the people that seem to do it most vocally are the people that seem to be the least skilled at doing it. Of course, maybe it is the fact that they are most vocal that makes them the least skilled. There are several places where Paul goes into a new area, finds some new believers and then rather then continually publically debate those that don't believe, takes the ones that do believe and withdraws and teaches them further. This of course from a public perspective would make him less vocal then some of the current "religious leaders" that insist on continually shouting at masses of people that have already shouted them down.

In general, I think people that are trying to be part of the Great Commission should try reading things like Acts 26 to see how Paul addressed non-Christians.

As for the rest of it, at least according to Acts, you are wrong. Acts has the Church growing nicely in and around Jerusalem, and they even added people to the "rank" of disciples despite persecution (flogging and imprisionment). Further persecution (the stoning) and the scattering of the Church comes shortly after that not after a period of stagnation.

[prophet]

Well, this certainly took a turn for the worse in short order.

Nothing new here! :laugh:

[alexey]

Knee jerk police in full effect! Yippie! :applause:

Perhaps there is some useful information there.

[prophet]

Perhaps there is some useful information there.

Prehaps you are right, and prehaps you are reading way to much into it. :2cents:

[SUNSTONE]

While I am still a habitual sinner I consider myself a model for fellow Christians.....

Then you are not a model citizen.

[The_cavalierman]

You want to know the problem that Christianity is having that's caused its image to decline....

The fact that we live in a "Now" society. We want things now. We want our rewards now. Oh, and we don't want to have to sacrifice anything to get those rewards.

Whereas Christianity is an "Eat the **** sandwich now to get your reward later" philosophy. That just doesn't play real well with a large segment of the population anymore. It's definitely part of why I am no longer a Christian.

Interesting,

I do believe that might be part of the problem. The lifestyle certainly fails in comparison to what we see on TV.

[China]

It's this kind of thing that to me reflects poorly on Christianity:

Suffer Not the Trick-or-Treaters

In middle school, I met some friends who introduced me to another world. They told me that they could contact the dead and learn hidden secrets about their lives. I'll never forget the time I asked the ouija board who I would marry. It replied, "the Devil."

I think the Ouija board was right, she is married to the Devil, she just doesn't realize it.

Sadly, the demonic hauntings I experienced growing up are common among many young children today. I would venture to say that 20 years later, it has gotten much worse. The lures of the Enemy are running more rampant. Chidren do not have to sneak over to their friends' houses to access demonic influences.

There are obviously plenty of demonic influences at her house. After all, she is married to the Devil.

Did you ever wonder why Halloween seems to primarily feed off of a market of 3-13 year olds? This is a Satanic ploy for our children.

Obviously she's never been invited to a costume party (I wonder why) or participated in any other type of Halloween celebrations as an adult. Dressing up as Buzz Lightyear is not indoctrinating your child into a satanic cult.

Consider your options. There are many message-driven alternatives to offer, other than a bowl full of candy. For instance, there are Gospel tracts designed for trick-or-treaters that can be purchased online or at your Christian bookstore. You might also want to consider designing your own tracts or attaching scripture messages to the treats.

This kind of thing bothers me. If you don't like Halloween don't participate. But don't push your religion on my child by handing out religious materials. I'll take care of my child's spiritual needs in the way I see fit.

[Zguy28]

It's this kind of thing that to me reflects poorly on Christianity:

Suffer Not the Trick-or-Treaters

I think the Ouija board was right, she is married to the Devil, she just doesn't realize it.

There are obviously plenty of demonic influences at her house. After all, she is married to the Devil.

Obviously she's never been invited to a costume party (I wonder why) or participated in any other type of Halloween celebrations as an adult. Dressing up as Buzz Lightyear is not indoctrinating your child into a satanic cult.

This kind of thing bothers me. If you don't like Halloween don't participate. But don't push your religion on my child by handing out religious materials. I'll take care of my child's spiritual needs in the way I see fit.

I use tracts all the time. Halloween is no different. Its just another opportunity to hand them out. End of story.

It seems like your reaction is very similar to those Christians who think Halloween is some kind big bad boogeyman who will lead our kids to Satan. If you don't like getting handed a tract on Halloween throw it away. :2cents:

[Corcaigh]

I use tracts all the time. Halloween is no different. Its just another opportunity to hand them out. End of story.

Kids come to the door hoping to show off their costume and get some candy, but they get the trick. :doh:

Do you think it's reasonable to do this without the parent's informed consent? Would you be upset if your kids were proselytized by, say the Jehovah's Witnesses, when they called on a house?

I know they're the ones knocking on the door, but really do you think this is right given it's Halloween?

[Oldskool]

Everyone is a hypocrite in one form or another.

Many people who say that the follow a faith, belief system, etc do not adhere to the very tenements that they espouse to others.

Christianity doesn't have an image problem, humanity does.

[prophet]

Everyone is a hypocrite in one form or another.

Many people who say that the follow a faith, belief system, etc do not adhere to the very tenements that they espouse to others.

Christianity doesn't have an image problem, humanity does.

Bravo!

[China]

I use tracts all the time. Halloween is no different. Its just another opportunity to hand them out. End of story.

It seems like your reaction is very similar to those Christians who think Halloween is some kind big bad boogeyman who will lead our kids to Satan. If you don't like getting handed a tract on Halloween throw it away. :2cents:

I'm not getting the tract, my child is. If you want to push your religion on adults who know what they're getting into fine, but don't push it on my kid. That's not your responsibility, it's mine.

[prophet]

I'm not getting the tract, my child is. If you want to push your religion on adults who know what they're getting into fine, but don't push it on my kid. That's not your responsibility, it's mine.

Curious question...

Do you feel the same about public schools teaching things that I don't want my child to learn about?

[prophet]

So you believe all Christians are called to be actively part of the Great Commission?

I think this study actually nicely shows the flaw in that reasoning. The increased activity of the religious right (which is partly their involvment in Great Commission) is pushing people away from Christianity- not pulling people towards it. Many people just don't have the ability to properly persuade people about something like Christianity and so resort to things and methods that just push people away. Note, I'm not saying that nobody should be serving this role, but just not everybody, and currently, the people that seem to do it most vocally are the people that seem to be the least skilled at doing it. Of course, maybe it is the fact that they are most vocal that makes them the least skilled. There are several places where Paul goes into a new area, finds some new believers and then rather then continually publically debate those that don't believe, takes the ones that do believe and withdraws and teaches them further. This of course from a public perspective would make him less vocal then some of the current "religious leaders" that insist on continually shouting at masses of people that have already shouted them down.

In general, I think people that are trying to be part of the Great Commission should try reading things like Acts 26 to see how Paul addressed non-Christians.

As for the rest of it, at least according to Acts, you are wrong. Acts has the Church growing nicely in and around Jerusalem, and they even added people to the "rank" of disciples despite persecution (flogging and imprisionment). Further persecution (the stoning) and the scattering of the Church comes shortly after that not after a period of stagnation.

Yes everyone is called to Tell. But I do agree you should have the basic down before you go and tell.

:2cents:

[Henry]

Curious question...

Do you feel the same about public schools teaching things that I don't want my child to learn about?

I would think a responsible parent would be in constant contact with his child's teachers and school administrators throughout the school year, so that no, there should be no suprises regarding what the school teaches someone's kids.

Same in this situation. It would be a nice courtesy if the person handing out literature would do so with the approval of a child's parents, and Halloween might not afford an opportunity to do that.

That said, parents should really be paying attention to what strangers are handing their kids no matter what it is. My kids have been handed VHS tapes of Bibleman on Halloween more than once. I don't think much of it. We just throw them out. (Sorry )