Christianity's Image Problem

[China]

Curious question...

Do you feel the same about public schools teaching things that I don't want my child to learn about?

There is a big difference between a school system and a neighbor. What the school system teaches is a community decision and should not involve religion. So if the school system sent religious tracts home with my son I'd feel the same way.

[Zguy28]

Kids come to the door hoping to show off their costume and get some candy, but they get the trick. :doh:

Do you think it's reasonable to do this without the parent's informed consent? Would you be upset if your kids were proselytized by, say the Jehovah's Witnesses, when they called on a house?

I know they're the ones knocking on the door, but really do you think this is right given it's Halloween?

So, wait, some people think children should be able to get abortions without parental consent, but you think I shouldn't be able to give them literature? Talk about backwards society.

Anyways, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Its nothing more than a piece of paper. I am actually hoping the parents will read it to them.

And yes I also am generous with the candy. Its the same thing when I go out to eat and give a tract to my server. I always am extra generous with the tip before giving them the gospel tract. It would be terribly rude to give them a tract and no tip. That doesn't give a very favorable impression now does it? (I hate it when Christians do boneheaded stuff like that btw)

Sometimes I actually give out money to people in public in order to break the ice with people. I put a fresh new $1 bill in a tract that says:

Why give away money? There are four reasons: First. As a small token of apology for the fact that so many have asked for money in the name of Christianity. Christians should be giving to the community, not taking from it.

The second reason is to ask you an important question. Do you consider yourself to be a good person? Let's look at the Ten Commandments and see if you are. Have you ever told a lie?

And it goes on to share the whole gospel.

[Corcaigh]

So, wait, some people think children should be able to get abortions without parental consent, but you think I shouldn't be able to give them literature? Talk about backwards society.

That justification for proselytizing to kids without parental consent is as bad as I've ever heard. :doh:

:laugh:

[Zguy28]

I'm not getting the tract, my child is. If you want to push your religion on adults who know what they're getting into fine, but don't push it on my kid. That's not your responsibility, it's mine.

You know, you're right. It is your responsibility. Go find out who in your neighborhood is giving them out and don't let your kid go there. Then we won't indoctrinate your children.

[Zguy28]

That justification for proselytizing to kids without parental consent is as bad as I've ever heard. :doh:

:laugh:

Its not justification. I hope this doesn't sound arrogant, because its not in any way, but I don't need to justify myself to you. I was pointing out the absurdity of your notion.

[alexey]

Do you feel the same about public schools teaching things that I don't want my child to learn about?

What do you have against your children learning about the Civil War?

[China]

You know, you're right. It is your responsibility. Go find out who in your neighborhood is giving them out and don't let your kid go there. Then we won't indoctrinate your children.

Nowadays most trick-or-treaters have adult chaperones when they go out. Why don't you just give the tracts to the adults and the candy to the children? Then the adults can decide whether to pass on the info to their kids.

[Corcaigh]

Its not justification. I hope this doesn't sound arrogant, because its not in any way, but I don't need to justify myself to you. I was pointing out the absurdity of your notion.

If you put up a sign warning parents not to send their kids to your house because of what you have in store I'd agree, but I think what you are doing is contrary to the spirit of the holiday.

EDIT - and the fact that you feel you don't need to justify this sort of behavior toward children on Halloween explains the negative perception of Christians.

[DeanCollins]

Nowadays most trick-or-treaters have adult chaperones when they go out. Why don't you just give the tracts to the adults and the candy to the children? Then the adults can decide whether to pass on the info to their kids.

sounds like the tobacco industry :laugh:

[China]

You know, you're right. It is your responsibility. Go find out who in your neighborhood is giving them out and don't let your kid go there. Then we won't indoctrinate your children.

Be realistic. Am I supposed to be psychic to know who will be giving out literature, or should I knock on every door in the neighborhood in advance to ask and then tell my little kid to memorize the addresses of all the houses to which he should not go?

[Zguy28]

Be realistic. Am I supposed to be psychic to know who will be giving out literature, or should I knock on every door in the neighborhood in advance to ask and then tell my little kid to memorize the addresses of all the houses to which he should not go?

As well should I go around and ask every parent if its ok to give their kids a piece of literature about Jesus at the same time I give them candy? I'm just being honest. To me, its just another day, but with a bigger opportunity to outreach to people.

Like Henry said he does, just throw it away if you don't want it.

[China]

As well should I go around and ask every parent if its ok to give their kids a piece of literature about Jesus at the same time I give them candy?

Yes. The point being, you don't have to go around to ask. There are parents with the kids, ask them. Maybe you'll strike up a conversation to further your outreach goals. You may be more effective that way.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Yes. The point being, you don't have to go around to ask. There are parents with the kids, ask them. Maybe you'll strike up a conversation to further your outreach goals. You may be more effective that way.

Otherwise I may have to move into ZGuy's neighborhood and start promoting communism and abortion.

[Zguy28]

Yes. The point being, you don't have to go around to ask. There are parents with the kids, ask them. Maybe you'll strike up a conversation to further your outreach goals. You may be more effective that way.

That's good advice and its something I already do. Statistics show it is far more likely that a whole family will become Christians if the father is the first one to become one. Unfortunately most kids don't bring chaperones.

[Zguy28]

Otherwise I may have to move into ZGuy's neighborhood and start promoting communism and abortion.

I know you are being sarcastic, but hey go ahead.

I wouldn't mind. I already have mormons, JW's, etc around me. No sweat. I'd just explain to my kids what's wrong about those things and move on.

[Enter Apotheosis]

I know you are being sarcastic, but hey go ahead.

I wouldn't mind. I already have mormons, JW's, etc around me. No sweat. I'd just explain to my kids what's wrong about those things and move on.

We're supposed to be fostering an environment where parents don't have to teach their kids anything, though...

[Henry]

I know you are being sarcastic, but hey go ahead.

I wouldn't mind. I already have mormons, JW's, etc around me. No sweat. I'd just explain to my kids what's wrong about those things and move on.

Now I've already said the tract thing at Halloween is no big deal, and it isn't, but this conversation is taking an interesting turn. This comment especially, and also Prophet's comment about public schools.

I don't think Christians, even very devout Christians, have ANY idea what it's like to be a member an extremely small minority, religiously speaking. My five year-old daughter, for example, has more than once told me she doesn't want to be Jewish anymore because everyone in her school is Christian. She wants to celebrate Christmas. She wants Easter. She wants to see her freinds at church.

And she goes to a Godless, heathen, we-teach-evolution-and-don't-say-bad-things-about-gays public school in liberal, diverse, the-South-don't-want-us-no-more Northern Virginia. You all have such a huge, huge monoploy on culture in this country, and every time that culture moves an inch away from you, there are cries of persecution. There is talk of how we non-Christians are secretly running things and conspiring to sabotage Christianity from within. It's laughable really. Of COURSE the mormons and JW's don't worry you. You're in the immense majority. If there were 3 of you to every 97 Mormons, I guarantee you wouldn't be so flip about them trying to recruit your kids away from you.

Just sayin.

Sorry for the rant.

[twa]

China, I don't know if you have kids but it is a very good idea to both know who's door they are knocking on AND check whatever they get before the kids handle it.....A bible trac is the least of your worries.

[Zguy28]

Now I've already said the tract thing at Halloween is no big deal, and it isn't, but this conversation is taking an interesting turn. This comment especially, and also Prophet's comment about public schools.

I don't think Christians, even very devout Christians, have ANY idea what it's like to be a member an extremely small minority, religiously speaking. My five year-old daughter, for example, has more than once told me she doesn't want to be Jewish anymore because everyone in her school is Christian. She wants to celebrate Christmas. She wants Easter. She wants to see her freinds at church.

And she goes to a Godless, heathen, we-teach-evolution-and-don't-say-bad-things-about-gays public school in liberal, diverse, the-South-don't-want-us-no-more Northern Virginia. You all have such a huge, huge monoploy on culture in this country, and every time that culture moves an inch away from you, there are cries of persecution. There is talk of how we non-Christians are secretly running things and conspiring to sabotage Christianity from within. It's laughable really. Of COURSE the mormons and JW's don't worry you. You're in the immense majority. If there were 3 of you to every 97 Mormons, I guarantee you wouldn't be so flip about them trying to recruit your kids away from you.

Just sayin.

Sorry for the rant.

You make good points Henry. I respect your views. But let me say this. If there are such an overwhelming majority of Christians in the USA, why would we have a bad image of ourselves? Or is it just the evangelical christians?

And like I said, I agree with you about how we cry when things are secularized more and more. That's why I didn't understand or agree with Cavalierman's statement about the USA becoming more Christianized in the other thread.

[Enter Apotheosis]

You make good points Henry. I respect your views. But let me say this. If there are such an overwhelming majority of Christians in the USA, why would we have a bad image of ourselves? Or is it just the evangelical christians?

And like I said, I agree with you about how we cry when things are secularized more and more. That's why I didn't understand or agree with Cavalierman's statement about the USA becoming more Christianized.

The bad image originates with evangelicals but is slowly being spread to all groups of Christians because most people tend to use blanket statements when referencing the actions of a few. This militarizes many other Christians not intended to fall under said blanket statement to respond harshly to a perceived attack and from there the conflict escalates.

[prophet]

There is a big difference between a school system and a neighbor. What the school system teaches is a community decision and should not involve religion. So if the school system sent religious tracts home with my son I'd feel the same way.

You have got to be kidding with that awnser. :laugh:

You have just proved my point! :applause:

[Henry]

You make good points Henry. I respect your views. But let me say this. If there are such an overwhelming majority of Christians in the USA, why would we have a bad image of ourselves? Or is it just the evangelical christians?

And like I said, I agree with you about how we cry when things are secularized more and more. That's why I didn't understand or agree with Cavalierman's statement about the USA becoming more Christianized in the other thread.

First of all, you're a good guy, Z. I didn't mean for that to come across as an attack on you. Yours just happened to be the last post I read before posting.

Why do you have a bad image of yourselves? Frankly, because you have MORE power now than you had ten years ago. It's funny that AJ claims the non-Christians are running things when, for the first time in decades, the party with which Christians associate has dominated all three branches of our government (and maybe that's why non-Christians seem to be more vocal these days.) With the GOP having basically un-fettered control of things, Christians finally had their people in place.

And what happened? The same thing that happened when the Dems had all the power in '92. Not enough. I think Christians are frustrated with eachother for not weilding their increased political power as a unified force these past ten years. And now that the political pendulum is starting to swing back they are lashing out, blaming eachother, blaming non-Christians, blaming our supposedly Godless culture .. whoever and whatever they can find for not getting more done when they had the chance.

But really, that's not anyone fault. That's the way things work in this country. Slow and frustrating.

I just don't like seeing frustrated Christians.

[Zguy28]

First of all, you're a good guy, Z. I didn't mean for that to come across as an attack on you. Yours just happened to be the last post I read before posting.

Why do you have a bad image of yourselves? Frankly, because you have MORE power now than you had ten years ago. It's funny that AJ claims the non-Christians are running things when, for the first time in decades, the party with which Christians associate has dominated all three branches of our government (and maybe that's why non-Christians seem to be more vocal these days.) With the GOP having basically un-fettered control of things, Christians finally had their people in place.

And what happened? The same thing that happened when the Dems had all the power in '92. Not enough. I think Christians are frustrated with eachother for not weilding their increased political power as a unified force these past ten years. And now that the political pendulum is starting to swing back they are lashing out, blaming eachother, blaming non-Christians, blaming our supposedly Godless culture .. whoever and whatever they can find for not getting more done when they had the chance.

But really, that's not anyone fault. That's the way things work in this country. Slow and frustrating.

I just don't like seeing frustrated Christians.

I hear you on that. I left the Republicans for those very reasons. They keep promising Christians stuff, and all they do is bring war and wide stances in airport bathrooms. Empty promises, the real American dream.

[Mufumonk]

As well should I go around and ask every parent if its ok to give their kids a piece of literature about Jesus at the same time I give them candy? I'm just being honest. To me, its just another day, but with a bigger opportunity to outreach to people.

Like Henry said he does, just throw it away if you don't want it.

If a kid doesn't have an adult with them keep your literature to yourself.